Wow ... this place died

[EndGamePR]

Was it something I said? Did I drive everyone away by promoting the Startup BizCast Small Business Week Contest?

[writerpatrick]

Podcast Pickle is also suffering, especially after the crash. It seems to be the same ten people posting, and I'm one of the newest members participating.

Part of it is just too many forums. When someone has a forum for their podcast they tend to prioritize it above community forums.

Part of it is that many of the newer podcasts are corperate and really don't care about community participation. Podcasts defianately seem to be taking a corperate turn this year.

Part of it is the iTunes Factor; regardless of how much effort you put into promoting the podcast, you're standing on iTunes may still be the biggest factor in the success of your podcast. So many podcasters don't feel it's worth their effort to bother with forums.

[EndGamePR]

I do agree with you about Podcast Pickle. I would suspect it's less than 10 people in fact. However, I somewhat expected that to increase posting over here.

I don't think there are too many forums. I don't think there are enough places for podcasters to trade ideas and talk about their shows ... particularly since the Pickle seems to be fading. Honestly, this is pretty much IT as far as I can tell. Blubrry has a forum, but no one ever goes there it seems.

The thing that has me scratching my head here is that not even the regular handful of posters are around the last couple of days. Might have something to do with Easter coming.

[Yotto]

For me, these forums and those at the Pickle went from a fun social forum to a Q/A forum for people to get help. Neither is bad, mind you, but the 2nd gets far less posts.

I personally attribute this to Twitter. I screw around with my friends there, and therefore find no need to do it here or at the Pickle.

[WyethDigital]

We've had some family issues this week. MiL is in the hospital.

I don't really "get" Twitter, or even to a lesser extent many of the "social networks." Twitter's like texting on phones for me: The shorthand stuff drives me nuts! And the social networks are no better. They demand so much of your time to build and maintain that I have no clue how they can be considered "fun." I'd rather spend my away-from-the-computer time among the living.

That's why I prefer forums: You get some online social interaction, but you're not spending hours cobbling together pigeon-HTML and CSS in order for your page to like anything, and gosh darn it, I get to spell whole words!

Eric

[Yotto]

I have over 2500 posts on twitter. Each one was made on a computer, and all but a dozen or so (I was trying other software out) were made on their standard webform.

The draw for twitter to me is it's like blogging, but you are FORCED to be brief. It's also therefore like a chat room. It is a middle-ground between the two with the permanence and personal authority of a blog, but also with the ephemeral attitude and casualness of a chat room.

I don't follow anybody who uses txt abrvtns. I don't follow anybody who strings 10 posts together instead of blogging it and posting a link. I don't follow anybody (for long) that doesn't follow me and happily block someone I don't want to follow.

I don't maintain a list or use it to network or anything like that. Not everything you do in your life needs to be to expand your name and advertise your podcast, blog, or business.

[EndGamePR]

I'm currently experimenting with Twitter. When it first came out I went as far as to blog about how inane the whole thing is. Thus far I haven't really come to the point where I understand the attraction. What I'm doing is posting quickie podcast updates (production schedule, guests, etc.) for whatever listeners I have that might care about that stuff.

[ferg]

I don't come here much anymore, and was just coming here to start a topic about how dead this place is. It's not fun anymore - for me at least. I don't know what "the crash" is, but it seems like these forums are

1) Show announcements
2) Re-runs of posts from other sites (like podcasting news)

Ugh. Not sure how to get it rolling again, but that's what I see.

As for twitter, I found that not only did I "not get into it", but it really annoyed me. There were people (people who I genuinely consider friends) who would post like 200 times per day thing like, "heading home, now...", "going to a meeting..." I mean - really - people get so into the idea of just saying whatever, that they don't think about whether or not it's of interest to anybody at all.

[Rasheed]

And:
3. Messages about all kinds of products and software nobody really needs.

We don't want to forget our nice spamming members on this forum. ;)

[Slone]

That's because no one is "Podcasting" anymore! We're all busy making money and building our small production companies or empires! :) We'll that's what we've been doing anyway...

I do miss the community here and perhaps refocus some of the topic areas might do the trick. I don't have the bandwidth to sort it out, but I do miss the fun for better or worse here :)

-Scott :cool:

[Slone]

Oh yeah the Spam is a killer here for sure. :twisted:

Might help things...

[Rasheed]

BTW Have you seen this animation by the Norwegian Broadcasting Corporation NRK?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ou3IHU6Hjuc

Podcasters aren't the only dying breed on this planet. ;)

[WyethDigital]

BTW Have you seen this animation by the Norwegian Broadcasting Corporation NRK?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ou3IHU6Hjuc

Podcasters aren't the only dying breed on this planet. ;)

I like the GarageBand soundtrack!

Eric

[writerpatrick]

Twitter: for when you're too lazy to blog.

I really don't see many new podcasters getting into forums. I'm one of the newer members still participating on Podcast Pickle and I've been at it seven months.

There aren't many niches left for new podcasters, at least none of the larger ones. For example, a search for "anime" on Podcast Alley brought up 200 listings. One could try a sub-category, like just Naruto, and that brings up 12 listings. It's easy to get lost in the crowd (or a search) and if the niche is too small one doesn't get listeners so it's not worth bothering to podcast. There are also some niches, such as poetry, which really don't draw much of an audience to begin with so once you've got about 10 or 20 podcasts there isn't much space for any more.

Even worse is the number of dead casts filling things up. Add to that the growth in corperate podcasts with some real money behind them and it makes it even harder on the new amateurs. And there can only be 100 in the top 100, with many of those becoming podcast novels, performances and video productions. So unless one is seriously putting in an effort, and possibly some cash, it's hard to reach the top.

Of course there are those who just do it for the fun without any interest in status or fiscal gain, but once one puts any serious amount of time or effort into it they want to get noticed. And when they can't get noticed, reality scars their egos and they quit.

[Rasheed]

I wonder if more people are creating private podcasts, I mean for friends and family only, that don't get listed on the podcast directories, but still need the support from other podcasters for the technical bits.

I also see tech people posting screencasts on video servers that have RSS with enclosure capabilities, which can also be called podcasts. They throw those together to show some technique they discovered and want to share. These people don't see themselves as podcasters, although, in technical terms, they are.

This forum (and the podcast directory) seems to be more for the "creative" or "entertainment" podcasters, who want to draw in a crowd by just being good at talking or having an original idea that is neat to share with a larger audience. Those people will fight a hard and uphill battle for audience attention against corporate and entertainment media, where the big bags of money and the well-known hosts are.

[writerpatrick]

Excluding the corperations which are unlikely to bother with forums anyways, it may be that new podcasters have given up on directories because there's so little chance of making the top 100. The newest on Podcast Alley ranks around 8700; that's a long way to go to get to the top. But just getting up there requires getting enough participation from listeners, and that can be difficult.

So new podcasters wind up giving up on the directories all-together as a way to attract listeners and give up on ever becoming a top podcaster so they don't put the effort into gathering listeners or even care about the number of listeners they have. And they don't need help because the programs are much easier. (Some schools are already teaching about podcasting.) So they may see no benefit from forums.

There is definately something going on though.

[WyethDigital]

Excluding the corperations which are unlikely to bother with forums anyways, it may be that new podcasters have given up on directories because there's so little chance of making the top 100. The newest on Podcast Alley ranks around 8700; that's a long way to go to get to the top. But just getting up there requires getting enough participation from listeners, and that can be difficult.

So new podcasters wind up giving up on the directories all-together as a way to attract listeners and give up on ever becoming a top podcaster so they don't put the effort into gathering listeners or even care about the number of listeners they have. And they don't need help because the programs are much easier. (Some schools are already teaching about podcasting.) So they may see no benefit from forums.

There is definately something going on though.

I'll tell you what's going on: crying over nothing. That's what.

What I see in your post is an excuse for failure. An excuse for laziness. An excuse for not connecting with your audience. There's more than just the Top 100 podcasts at PCA. There's the the top podcasts by category. Depending on what category you get into, it's not hard to advance in rank, since it's a monthly vote. We've been at the top of our category several times. Get twenty to people to vote for you every month and you'd be surprised at your ranking.

We just don't bother with it because the effort to work a vote appeal into our show every month isn't worth it, and it's been that way for at least 18 minths now. The system here is too easily gamed.

I'm so sick of hearing how tough it is to be new, and how we're all stacked against getting the new guy getting an audience. Here's a news flash: Unless you were doing it in the first 8 - 12 months of it's existence, it's always been tough to break into podcasting and get an audience. The pioneers only had each other's shows to listen to, so podcasting became a detestable mess of self-congratulation, inside jokes, and awkward cross-promotion. And voicemails. Lots of scratchy, annoying voicemails.

Now, for the consumer, there's actual choices. Actual content. Those with an idea and the commitment to implement it will be rewarded by gaining an audience, and possibly even a little money. Sure, competing with corporate podcasting is tough, but it can be done. See those "Masthead" ads around here? The ones with the corpse-like women? That's a Marie Claire/PodShow podcast, and we consistently beat them at iTunes, as well as other corporate productions. It can be done. You just have to work at it.

If you're discouraged, it's because you're putting too much emphasis on the numbers too soon. I always tell people to work on their craft first. The audience will follow. No one is going to kick you off the air but you.

Eric

[writerpatrick]

So why aren't new podcasters participating in the forums?

[WyethDigital]

So why aren't new podcasters participating in the forums?

I suspect for the same reasons old podcasters aren't participating in the forums. Lack of time, lack of energy, too many other commitments, too many other networking opportunities like Facebook, MySpace, and Twitter.

Internet communications are changing, probably faster than podcasting is. People don't want to go to forums and wait for answers anymore. Not when there's all sorts of resources you can find by hitting Google. Besides, people these days prefer more peer-to-peer communication like you get from texting and (it pains me to say) Twitter.

Podcast Alley and Podcast Pickle have both had their day; the adept podcaster knows that you can only grow so far by enlisting other podcasters to listen to your show. These forums are still places where podcasters can hang out and talk about podcaster stuff, but not like they used to be. In the "good old days," podcasters used to do shows about how they were Podcasting (with a capital "P"). Today's podcasters are less interested in podcasting than they are in communicating about their real interests, their passions. A podcast is just a tool to them, not a movement. That may mean places like PCA and the Pickle are mere remnants of what they used to be, which is sad, but it also means that podcasting is maturing as a medium, which is a good thing.

So go ahead and mourn for the past, and blame your lack of audience on corporate podcasts, or iTunes, or the oldies that are hogging the audience if you want, but don't forget that just as there are more podcasters today than there were yesterday, there are also more demands on them, which means more competition for places like PCA and Podcast Pickle

Eric

[EndGamePR]

Wow. You know, I really meant this place died LAST WEEK ... not in general. But, you guys go ahead and continue. This is interesting to watch.

[Slone]

Perhaps it's dead as well because it's impossible to post without Eric being there for the first reply or shutting them down ha! :D and maybe PCA should be renamed to "Eric's Alley" :rolleyes:

Kidding of course Eric!

I think what I miss is all the silly drama that used to go on in here usually supported by some of the following that stick out in my mind.

- Red Bar Radio vs. Kickasspodcast
- Kickasspodcast vs.Everybody (especially himself)
- Patrick (NLO) (always good for a rebuttal)
- Bear Foot Radio vs. Bear Foot Radio
- Rumor Girls (new show posted, join us in the forums, new show posted, join us in the forums, hey look at us ha!)

Used to be crazy fun here! :twisted:

Okay back to work...

[WyethDigital]

Hey! I represent those remarks!

In all seriousness, though, I don't "shut down" posts. I have my opinions and say what they are. Not my fault if people lack the intellectual (or intestinal) fortitude to actually formulate a reply! :mrgreen:

Your observation might be more ironic if I actually was the first one to post to this little thread, but I was not. So there! Thhhppptttthh!

Oh, and you're forgetting about the fun of the neo-nazi and pedophile's posts. Some great times those were! :rolleyes:

Eric

[Barefoot Radio.com]

PCA has died WAY down compared to the past.

Lots of those folks in the top 10 love the bragging rights. I myself have not been sure there's much benefit to it at all.

I don't like to badger my listeners for things(very rarely).

We've experienced huge growth, and PCA was responsible for none of it. This indicates to me that there are vast ways to build an audience beyond podcast alley.

What do you suppose the net increase could be to downloads appearing in the top 10? Is it that major? 1,2,5,10 thousand downloads? More?

This site hardly has any updates at all, and that could be the reason why so many folks went away. There's nothing much new to come here for. When people were here, it was a stupid bickering fest half the time anyways.

Someone in this thread made it sound like 'podcasting is impossible' to succeed at so try something else. Honestly, is it worth generalizing about everyone's chances?

Some folks are gonna make the big time.

[Rasheed]

Someone in this thread made it sound like 'podcasting is impossible' to succeed at so try something else. Honestly, is it worth generalizing about everyone's chances?

Some folks are gonna make the big time.
Although, in your case, it probably isn't about podcasting, but potcasting. Gotta love the holy herbs. ;)

BTW Something similar applies to podcasting networks. They exist because of podcasts, but not the other way around. There is some promotional value to the networks, but the grunt of the promotional work has to be done by the podcaster, even if there are promotional actions to gain more listeners.

It's a bit like raffle tickets. Someone hands them out, but you still have to convince people to buy the tickets. Now, when someone has the brilliant idea to print his/her own raffle tickets and sell them, (s)he doesn't need the organization anymore to give him/her a bundle of raffle tickets.

The same applies to podcast directories and podcast networks you can join. If you know how to promote your podcast without those structures, you have much more targeted promotions, and don't bother people that don't care for your podcast. Not so in forums, directories and networks. There you tell everyone what you're up to, even those who aren't interested.

[writerpatrick]

The fading interest in podcast forums was evident back in December. It appears that podcast directories may no longer be the first place people go to find their podcasts. I know with Zune it appears that many think the only podcasts that exist are the ones on the Zune directory and I suspect something similar might be happening with iTunes.

While the number of podcast listeners is increasing, the technological sophistication of the average listener is decreasing. So someone getting into podcast listening, (or even producing their own podcast), may have absolutely no interest in forums. It might be called the "Grandma Factor;" the new podcast listeners know very little and will use only the simplest means to get what they want. They might even have had someone else set things up for them. So they might go to a website and subscribe but that's it. They don't get involved in community otherwise.

As for lack of podcasters participation, that appears mainly because many of the new podcasts are corperate and created to sell something. They see forums as a waste of time and definately won't share any secrets or information they've discovered about their podcasts. They do sign up to podcast directories, but only to list their shows. So while the directories may be seeing increasing activity, it's not social. (There's also a few foreign language podcasters who wouldn't have any interest in forums.) There just doesn't seem to be that many hobbiest getting into podcasting now. And when you're dealing with someone willing to put thousands into a podcast it's hard for the hobbiest with no budget at all to compete.

Now while podcast directories and forums may be on a down trend, other outlets seem to be on an increase. Podiobooks are just starting to take off and torrentcasting is getting some serious attention from broadcasters like the Canadian Broadcast Corperation. So it's just a matter of staying flexible and aware of the changes. I got into torrentcasting (although I didn't realize that's what it was called) because the traditional routes didn't seem to be working.

[Rasheed]

In other words, if you don't have a big budget, you don't create something like radio (read: a one person talk show or a round table conference talk), but, instead, invent something completely new, yet just as engaging (or even more so).

Most podcasts I listen to are still very much like radio (and television), even if the podcasters who produce them claim they don't mimic radio and tv.

You will limit your audience size if you concentrate on a niche audience, but wasn't that exactly what podcasting was all about, finding your niche? I see too many podcasters wanting to grow their hoards of listeners/viewers, in order to have their own little media empire. Face it already, you can't win from people from other media that are backed by large sums of money and audiences acquired through all these years of doing traditional media.

[SteveRunner]

You will limit your audience size if you concentrate on a niche audience, but wasn't that exactly what podcasting was all about, finding your niche?

That's the only reason I put together my PodCast. I really next expected or hoped that "non-runners" would ever give my show a listen. Instead, I've grown an audience of "fellow runners"...whom I don't even think of as "listeners".

When I tell my "fellow runners" that, there are some who think I'm in denial about it...but I think that's the true magic behind podcasting. None of us are ever going to get famous...but that's not the point: the point is to have a conversation with like minded people who share our passion and live in our niche.

This is a good thing.

PodCast Forums may be dead, but I think that's actually a sign of success for the medium! We've grown beyond the idea of perfecting our 'casts...and now we're doing it for our own communities!

How cool is that?

[Rasheed]

PodCast Forums may be dead, but I think that's actually a sign of success for the medium! We've grown beyond the idea of perfecting our 'casts...and now we're doing it for our own communities!

How cool is that?
I would call that living apart together, or having a blind eye for people who are different than you.

Nevertheless, that is exactly what you want when you create a niche, separate yourself from the rest of the world and don't be bothered by those who don't appreciate what you think is valuable. Remember, many people don't understand what is the fun of going for a run when it pours rain. They can't appreciate being alone with your thoughts and feeling alive with the pounding of your feet and the filling and emptying your lungs. Or: letting your body do what it has been evolving over millions of years to do: move with intent, happiness and grace. People who have a sedentary lifestyle can't appreciate this, nor can have any concept what it means. They think of the pain that goes along with exercise. Why would one voluntarily go through the pain of exercising?

So, there seem to be reasons to do something that is not mainstream (although running is popular, you can't claim it is really mainstream, especially if you realize how overweight the general population is).

But then, why use the format of mainstream media? A bit of music, someone talking, and some more music. That isn't very creative, nor innovative. Also, preaching (telling people what is good for them) isn't very original as well. Both people of the clergy and djs seem to do this, which I think is a very questionable practice. People should make up their own minds and don't have other people do the thinking for them.

So, I think there is still a reason to share ideas among podcasters, to keep innovating and discuss how to implement those new ideas in your podcast. How do we make the podcast more interactive, less host-driven, and more community-driven?

Now what I want to know is: where are those podcasters conversing nowadays?

[Metaphore]

Now what I want to know is: where are those podcasters conversing nowadays?

That would be Twitter pretty much, that and blog cross posting.

Its not like these boards just up and died in the last couple of months. They have been dieing for a year and half/ 2 years at least. Podcasting started revving up late 2004, I started in 2005 and this place and the pickle were great. Now its 2008 and people have moved on. Can't expect early adopters to stick around in the same place for 4 years.

[skepticality]

I'll post something as well... just to add to your 'worthless' post, so you don't feel all lonely. :)