Podshow Rant

[djtrashy]

It's just a bit of a rant...

1) The amount of people who listen to podcasts on their computers is small compared to the numbers who listen on a portable device, mostly iPods. They've sold what, 100 million of those, right? So why is Podshow focusing on web site hits and on-line plays and social site stuff?

2) As a podcaster, the podsafe music network part is of extreme importance to me. The interface sucks, and it hasn't changed in forever. It appears that providing podsafe music for podcasters is a low priority.

3) The "Help us Suck Less" campaign is, so far, extremely disappointing. I was hoping it was an opportunity to actually address problems like the ones I just mentioned. Instead the initial survey seemed to focus on demographics. It reminded me of forms designed to determine what sort of advertisement to send me. I swear if I start getting targeted ads I will be *so pissed*!

OK, that's about it.

[WyethDigital]

Actually, I've read reports of studies that show that a majority of the podcast audience consumes them on their computers. Audio podcasts are considered the most "portable," so the numbers show slight majority consume on the computer versus on the portable device. Video podcasts are watched on the home computer much, much more (http://www.web-strategist.com/blog/2006/11/21/nielsen-media-research-on-video-on-ipods-questions-about-the-research-whats-your-playmix-ratio/) than that. So there is a reason that PodShow concentrates on website related hits and features.

Also, while iPods rule the roost in the US and Europe, it's a completely different story in Asia.

As for the rest of it, I don't use PodShow, so I can't speak to those other complaints specifically, except to say that if you don't like 'em, don't use 'em. There are a lot of other options out there.

Eric

[X Pat Radio]

It will be interesting to see what happens now John C. Dovark has joined Podshow at some high level.

[djtrashy]

Actually, I've read reports of studies that show that a majority of the podcast audience consumes them on their computers. Audio podcasts are considered the most "portable," so the numbers show slight majority consume on the computer versus on the portable device.

Eric


I have found only the opposite results when searching. Here's one example:

http://industrialradio.org/modules/xoopspoll/pollresults.php?poll_id=7&PHPSESSID=6ca52eecdc0ac62d07ad2d92c1a77fbc

Not a *large* poll, but all the polls I find indicate similar results, which makes sense to me. The times that people are captive audiences (commute, jogging, exercising, etc.) they can now time-shift and customize what they hear instead of being stuck with radio. At home you have lots of other things to do.

Vidcasts I can see being more popular on the PC than an iPod, for obvious reasons.

[WyethDigital]

It will be interesting to see what happens now John C. Dovark has joined Podshow at some high level.
If they wanted PodShow to "suck less," getting Dvorak involved was the wrong move ;)

Eric

[WyethDigital]

I have found only the opposite results when searching. Here's one example:

http://industrialradio.org/modules/xoopspoll/pollresults.php?poll_id=7&PHPSESSID=6ca52eecdc0ac62d07ad2d92c1a77fbc

Not a *large* poll, but all the polls I find indicate similar results, which makes sense to me. The times that people are captive audiences (commute, jogging, exercising, etc.) they can now time-shift and customize what they hear instead of being stuck with radio. At home you have lots of other things to do.

Vidcasts I can see being more popular on the PC than an iPod, for obvious reasons.
While polls are an important part of the picture, they aren't actual surveys where care has been taken to tag different demographics and to weed out some of the chafe you get from an internet poll. I have changed computers since first researching and starting our podcast where I had some nice links to surveys that I used to pitch the concept of podcasting our show to my partner, and unfortunately I have not been able to recover them. Oh well, most of my numbers are over six months old anyway (and some over a year). So things could have changed.

Eric

[X Pat Radio]

If they wanted PodShow to "suck less," getting Dvorak involved was the wrong move ;)

Eric

Watch it buster!

[dpeach]

I too have heard many people make the comment that most podcasts are consumed at the computer. Something that makes no sense to me. I am an avid podcast listener and rarely listen to one on the computer. Usually only when I am testing out a show for the first time to see if I want to subscribe. But, I have heard it said many times that most people listen at their machine. Does not make sense and I have no research to back it up.

The reason I logged on to the forum tonight was to rant about PodShow's "Suck Less" promo. So, I guess this is a good place to put my thoughts.

By saying they want us to help them suck less, they are admitting that they do suck. Why? Oh, why would a company use as their promotion a phrase that essentially says "We are an awful company. We will be an awful company when you finish telling us what you think. But, at least we will be a bit less awful."

That is just stupid advertising in my opinion.

And, furthermore, I may have been raised a bit sheltered coming from west Texas and all, but I was always taught that saying something "sucked" was a curse word. While I would not put it in a category with some other words, it does make me cringe just to type it.

You may not agree with me on that last point and that is fine. But, if I were a PodShow podcast, I would have serious problems knowing that advertisement was going to be tacked onto the front of my show.

Because I raise my kids the same way I was raised, that is a curse word in my house. Fortunately, I was listening to my podcasts with headphones on when I first heard that ad. Now I will know not to play any PodShow podcasts with my children around.

I am not pleased with this choice of wording. And, even if you don't mind the wording, why would you advertise by saying you will still suck in the end, but at least you will suck less than you do now? Baffling.

I should hope that PodShow gives their podcasters a chance to opt out of something like that being tacked onto their show. If it were tacked onto the beginning of my shows, I would be much more livid than I am now as a listener.

[doulos12]

"Suck" is a curse word if you understand its origin. We don't use it on our show, but I know a lot of people who use it and don't consider it profanity, probably because they haven't considered what is being sucked in the etymology.

That said, it seems like PodShow is becoming the antithesis of podcasting, i.e. Radio in the most negative sense. That said, I like the music network concept if they'd ever make it easier to edit the playlist or have better search tools in it.

[X Pat Radio]

I too have heard many people make the comment that most podcasts are consumed at the computer. Something that makes no sense to me. I am an avid podcast listener and rarely listen to one on the computer. Usually only when I am testing out a show for the first time to see if I want to subscribe. But, I have heard it said many times that most people listen at their machine. Does not make sense and I have no research to back it up.

I only listen to podcasts at the computer, and hardly ever when I am out doing something else. Why I listen at the computer? Because I listen while I am doing other stuff.

[WyethDigital]

...you will still suck in the end, ...

hee hee hee

Okay, juvenile snickering aside, my folks considered it a curse word as I was growing up, but for the life of me I couldn't figure out why. At least until middle school. Anyway, yeah, I don't consider it a "curse" word in the same sense that I consider god **** a curse word (which is actually a curse if you think about it). But I do consider it an inappropriate word for polite company.

Anyway, my theory of why Podshow does the things it does (and the Sucks Less campaign is actually in good taste compared to some stunts they've pulled) is because they were accused of being an "evil" corporation some time ago, and so rather than fight the negative publicity and animosity they received early on, they've embraced it, and are selling to it. And why not? It gets them publicity. By being podcastings naughty, petulant black sheep, they're being the "cool" kids that all the rebels will want to hang out with. All I can say is, whatever.

Eric

[Slone]

No disrespect intended... but come on!! I don't know what's more sad - Ranting about the technical use of Suck... Or you can't get the obvious.

It's funny - PodShow is ****ed if they do and ****ed if they don't.

Loosen up people!
Scott

Added: Well looks like "Suck" is not a dirty word after all - it's "d a m e d" LOL

[djtrashy]

"Suck" is a curse word if you understand its origin. We don't use it on our show, but I know a lot of people who use it and don't consider it profanity, probably because they haven't considered what is being sucked in the etymology.
Many words have gone from forbidden to common usage. Most younger people today say 'suck' and never once think of any sort of sexual act. And frankly, the word suck had NO such connotations until relatively recently. So it's gone from a good word to bad and back to at least neutral (except for religious people).

[djtrashy]

And, furthermore, I may have been raised a bit sheltered coming from west Texas and all, but I was always taught that saying something "sucked" was a curse word. While I would not put it in a category with some other words, it does make me cringe just to type it.

You may not agree with me on that last point and that is fine. But, if I were a PodShow podcast, I would have serious problems knowing that advertisement was going to be tacked onto the front of my show.

Because I raise my kids the same way I was raised, that is a curse word in my house. Fortunately, I was listening to my podcasts with headphones on when I first heard that ad. Now I will know not to play any PodShow podcasts with my children around.

I am not pleased with this choice of wording. And, even if you don't mind the wording, why would you advertise by saying you will still suck in the end, but at least you will suck less than you do now? Baffling.

I should hope that PodShow gives their podcasters a chance to opt out of something like that being tacked onto their show. If it were tacked onto the beginning of my shows, I would be much more livid than I am now as a listener.
The choice of wording stems directly from Adam Curry, the guy in *charge* of Podshow. Have you ever listened to his podcast? Just by using Podshow you are endorsing his constant use of foul language, crude humor full of sexual innuendo and frequent references to his use of drugs. You should switch hosts, NOW, before you piss off the Lord!

[dpeach]

So it's gone from a good word to bad and back to at least neutral (except for religious people).
Well, I happen to be a religious person, and I have a right to my opinion as you have a right to yours.

Have you ever listened to his [Curry's] podcast?
No, I have not. Nor do I intend to.

Just by using Podshow you are endorsing his constant use of foul language, crude humor full of sexual innuendo and frequent references to his use of drugs. You should switch hosts...
I don't use them as a host. If you would read, then you would see that I don't.

To each their own. I am expressing my dislike for it and the opinion that they are alienating some people by this campaign. It may be a small number and they have to decide whether it is worth it or not.

It still does not make sense to me to say you stink, and will stink just a bit less if listeners will help.

[Pats Podcast]

Hi everyone:It's just a bit of a rant...

1) The amount of people who listen to podcasts on their computers is small compared to the numbers who listen on a portable device, mostly iPods. They've sold what, 100 million of those, right? So why is Podshow focusing on web site hits and on-line plays and social site stuff?Umm....Because many people have cell phones and other portable devices (Such as LAPTOPS ) which can browse the Internet from literally ANYWHERE on Earth? Hmm.....Sounds like a good reason to me2) As a podcaster, the podsafe music network part is of extreme importance to me. The interface sucks, and it hasn't changed in forever. It appears that providing podsafe music for podcasters is a low priority.Not true about the PMN, but I will reiterate what I said in another thread (And what I will say in The Zone)

That is that the main Podshow site SUCKS BALLS due to all the heavy and intensive graphics on the site.

Just my opinion though :D

[robaustin]

As far as the suck less campaign goes - I have two big issues with it:

1 - The survey is basically going to tell them what they probably already know - the demographics, and what is wrong with the site will just be confirmed by the results of the survey. It's a basic form survey. It is not a study on what parts of the site are usable and what are not, and it is not a study on design elements.

2 - Their partnership with ePoll is unquestionably a bad move. While they say they want to give out prizes for participation - using ePoll's prize pool is exceptionally lame. I got 500 points for doing a 15 minute survey. Theoretically, I need to do 4 more surveys to get 2500 points - the lowest amount to get any "prize". The first 2500 point prizes are simnple donations to charities - so to get 3500 points to get anything of real value (a $5 gift card to various entities) I need to do six more 15 minute surveys - that amounts to almost 2 hours of my time for $5 - not worth it in my opinion. The prizes that should have been offered should have been in line with Podshow's corporate identity - how about giving away a shuffle to every 25th person who completed a survey - or maybe an iTunes gift card? Those are things of real value to a user of Podshow's site - and would be a greater enticement to even a casual user to fill out the survey.

--*Rob

[WyethDigital]

No disrespect intended... but come on!! I don't know what's more sad - Ranting about the technical use of Suck... Or you can't get the obvious.
Well, Scott, no disrespect intended, but this illustrates PodShow's Bull in a China Shop mentality. Obviously, there are people who are offended by the blanket approach to their campaign. More importantly, there are people who see through the sloppy execution of it. For instance, the non-specific surveys that seek more info about demographics than about how to actually improve the user experience, the one-size-fits-all ad campaign, etc.
It's funny - PodShow is ****ed if they do and ****ed if they don't.

Loosen up people!
Scott
Actually, it's pretty much just funny to some. It's obviously not funny to everyone. To me, it's more ironic (or should I say iconic of Podshow's approach?). I mean, you'd think that a "entertainment network" that is built around podcasters would realize that there's going to be a host of sensibilities out there, right? If you want to talk about what's "sad," why don't you address that?

No, Podshow's not ****ed if they do and ****ed if they don't (at least in this situation). That excuse is starting to get tired. Time to quit yelling "unfair" any time someone criticizes Podshow. There are a lot of ways they could have sought improvement that would have been lauded. Instead, they apparently are using an improvement campaign to mine for demographics instead of actual improvement.

Eric

[X Pat Radio]

Actually, it's pretty much just funny to some. It's obviously not funny to everyone. To me, it's more ironic (or should I say iconic of Podshow's approach?). I mean, you'd think that a "entertainment network" that is built around podcasters would realize that there's going to be a host of sensibilities out there, right? If you want to talk about what's "sad," why don't you address that?

Eric

Eric,

Podshow's claim is that its built around listners not podcasters. Yeah I don't get it either, but thats what they say.

[WyethDigital]

Eric,

Podshow's claim is that its built around listners not podcasters. Yeah I don't get it either, but thats what they say.

Yep! I'm aware of the stated philosophy, which on the surface makes it that much more inept (the number of listeners should be a larger number than the producers, and have a broader scale of sensibilities to offend - whether that be people who object due to poor taste, or because it's a pretty dumb campaign). Of course, that's a leaky boat to paddle. In podcasting, the line that separates consumers and producers is a very thin one. In traditional media, the cost to produce programming is so costly that it becomes prohibitive for the average person to do it. Hence, they become passive consumers. Podcasting is much different. The cost and learning curve are so easy to overcome by comparison that the consumer can also be the producer. And in many cases, they are. So when Podshow says they're building a platform for listeners, they need to realize that many listeners are also content creators.

Eric

[Playstation3Show]

Podshow's problem is that there is only so much room for ego within any company, and with Adam Curry as president that room is pretty much gone. Ron Bloom manages to squeeze in his ego, I'm sure, but that leaves no room for anyone else.

Therefore, with all the ego doing the rounds, the genuinely talent people within the company, the people care about podcasting as a medium and the people who care about podcasters as creative entities don't get heard. That's why Podshow sucks - it's controlled by old media farts. Therefore they just don't get what podcasting is. They've obsessed with competing with old media; TV & radio. And they simply don't listen to people. They're infamous for 'ignoring' emails. Help them suck less? Too late.

It's the people within the company, the talented people I feel sorry for...

[Bucket]

I understand the complaint about the ad campaign and the prizes, so I'm not even going to say anything.

But as far as the initial survey goes, ya'll do know it's just an initial survey, right? Designed to collect demographic information so future surveys with more meat to them (such as user experience, site design, etc.) can be distributed to a controlled demographic group. I know the survey didn't ask much about the things everyone wants to complain about. But I'm just checking to see that while you noticed what wasn't there you also read what was. Supposedly surveys will be sent out every 4 to 6 weeks, which may vary of course depending on the target audience for the survey.

This is all pretty standard online survey behavior. Just with a more annoying ad campaign. I guess I'm just surprised that everyone else seems so.... well.... surprised.

[WyethDigital]

Fair enough, Bucket. Good point about the survey. I can give them the benefit of the doubt on that one, though I do question what demographic they have to target before they're convinced that their site needs to load faster or that there are too many steps to get to a show.

Eric

I understand the complaint about the ad campaign and the prizes, so I'm not even going to say anything.

But as far as the initial survey goes, ya'll do know it's just an initial survey, right? Designed to collect demographic information so future surveys with more meat to them (such as user experience, site design, etc.) can be distributed to a controlled demographic group. I know the survey didn't ask much about the things everyone wants to complain about. But I'm just checking to see that while you noticed what wasn't there you also read what was. Supposedly surveys will be sent out every 4 to 6 weeks, which may vary of course depending on the target audience for the survey.

This is all pretty standard online survey behavior. Just with a more annoying ad campaign. I guess I'm just surprised that everyone else seems so.... well.... surprised.

[Barefoot Radio.com]

Why do people have such deep negative feelings about podshow?

Podshow, whether cool or not, doesn't really make any difference to me. How come it makes a difference to the naysayers? What's to bitch about?


There are two kinds of companies. Ones like podshow that have TONS of money and resources to start out(which is awesome, sounds like fun, and I hope I can start a company with tons of money someday).

Then there are companies like our's, growing organically from the very beginning with a SMALL fraction of what podshow has at its disposal.

I'm not a big fan of developing shows in people's basements. I'm not being a jerk when I say this, I just think that 'professional entertainment' or 'media' is best done in a professional and commercial work environment.

Do Dawn and Drew still operate from the Basement? If so, WTF? Podshow should perhaps invest more in truly 'break out' type folks. Get them out of the basement. Ain't no celebrity going to visit down there in Huckleberry Dawn and Drew's country shack. It makes sense to me, and I'm not being 'snobby' when I say it. It's a practical statement. At the very least, they should 'pretend' they're not doing a show from home.

If you count the talent on our shows, and me, we have a staff of about 5. We're 3 talent, 2-3 admin. I consider myself both talent and admin. How many does Podshow have?

Frankly, I'd love enough investment capital to be able to pay a handful of web developers and production people full time. Esp. a video editor to kick out our vids regularly and in a timely manner.

The goal is to have everyone working full time in the future. It takes SO darn long in the real world.

I was sitting in my studio working alone yesterday and imagined a day when it's full of people for the whole work week. We're going to blow the lid of this sucker. :)

How many folks does podshow have working for them? 50-75? More? Less?

[peakydh]

No disrespect intended... but come on!! I don't know what's more sad - Ranting about the technical use of Suck... Or you can't get the obvious.

It's funny - PodShow is ****ed if they do and ****ed if they don't.

Loosen up people!
Scott

Added: Well looks like "Suck" is not a dirty word after all - it's "d a m e d" LOL

Ha! Yeah, bit strange that one.

[celebsfann]

It seems that either Podshow doesnt know how to move someone feed egads I hope not or they are just bad at communicating when they do something. Its fine to say Ill get someone to do that for you, but they didnt say when, and if they have, they havent said, ok your feed is now moved.