Podshow all talk and no action!

[X Pat Radio]

After trying to get one of my feeds moved from Podshow to Talkshoe, so far nothing has happended.

Podshow Joe said he would take care of it, but alas I don't think he has, since the feed hasn't migrated.

If he has, he hasn't told me, so its like being in the dark.

[WyethDigital]

But Adam Curry said last summer when PodShow launched and "mistakenly" hijacked all those feeds that (paraphrasing here) your feed is your feed! Apparently, that doesn't count for the free PodShow hosting accounts.

From the contracts that have leaked to the public, it was very clear from the verbiage within them that PodShow values it's own contributions to podcasting more than it values the content that has built it. This situation only serves to illustrate the point. Yes, you're given free hosting and bandwidth, but in exchange, PodShow is given a vehicle to run it's ads on without any further compensation to the owner of the content. And when a podcaster such as yourself wants to move one of his podcasts (and his audience) to a network that will not only run ads and provide free hosting and bandwidth, but pay him for it, well PodShow's not gonna make it easy.

Of course, PodShow could prove us all wrong and add the line of code to your feed that will let you migrate to your new host. After all, they were pretty quick to fix the feeds when they got caught hijacking them... They should be just as quick to react when someone accuses them of holding a feed hostage.

This should serve as a warning to anyone looking into free podcast hosting that uses something other than traditional blogging tools like Wordpress and Typepad, that they should beware.


Eric

[X Pat Radio]

It seems that either Podshow doesn't know how to move someone feed (egads I hope not) or they are just bad at communicating when they do something.

Its fine to say I'll get someone to do that for you, but they didn't say when, and if they have, they haven't said, ok your feed is now moved.

[Yotto]

The problem is, you're not podshow's customer. You're their product. Why would they fall all over themselves to get rid of product?

[WyethDigital]

Its fine to say I'll get someone to do that for you, but they didn't say when, and if they have, they haven't said, ok your feed is now moved.

Well, to be accurate, it's not a case of "moving" the feed. It's more like moving your audience to a new feed, and the code they would use would only migrate the people subscribed in iTunes. Everyone else would still be using your old feed.

Eric

[X Pat Radio]

The problem is, you're not podshow's customer. You're their product. Why would they fall all over themselves to get rid of product?

Let see, move one feed and keep the other 2 at Podshow, or piss me off so I move all three shows...Hmm...

[Slone]

Hey I understand your frustration... I certainly hear what you're saying.

However I'll say that Adam suggested, and even prior to PodShow launch -- that controlling your own feed should always be your priority. Even if you were not listening then - It's been discussed in depth here at Podcast Alley time and again. It's been a long-standing rule 'I believe' with podcasters. What's done is done at this point though..

So you're moving. Take the time in all of your shows, on your website, etc... and redirect your audience if you have not already. Check your traffic and see how the transition is going, and give your listeners a deadline to change. Encourage them to do so with an incentive - Contest will be on the other feed for example.

You're asking for trouble in my opinion...
Don't relocate your feed to TalkShoe - establish one at your own hosted account and domain name, because if TalkShoe goes away... where are you then?

I'm not speaking for PodShow - It might be nice to build an interface in the Show Control area that would generated or add to an existing .htaccess script with a 301 for each show exiting PodShow services for example.

Still at the end of the day, you're going to want to direct your audience to the new feed for your show - even if Podshow does a redirect for you.

Again - If you're going to now host your own feed, you'll always have this control at the drop of a hat.

Cheers,
Scott

[WyethDigital]

However I'll say that Adam suggested, and even prior to PodShow launch -- that controlling your own feed should always be your priority. Even if you were not listening then - It's been discussed in depth here at Podcast Alley time and again. It's been a long-standing rule 'I believe' with podcasters. What's done is done at this point though..

With all due respect, Scott, I think the problem is that X-Pat would like to control his own feed (after all, it's his content in the feed); and that even though PodShow generates the feed, he was under the impression that it was his to control. Apparently, PodShow feels differently about it.

If it's Adam Curry's feeling that X-Pat should have controlled his feed by way of hosting it somewhere else, then Adam Curry and PodShow should have been up front in the sign-up process and told people not use PodShow's feed if they ever thought they might need to move their show.

Now, I will say if X-Pat didn't want to pay for a hosting service outside of PodShow, the best thing to do would have been to use something like FeedBurner because it would have made things easier to move. But that doesn't entirely let PodShow off the hook, either. They need to be clear when someone signs up whether they consider a podcast's feed to be the podcaster's... or theirs. If they consider it to be the podcaster's, then they need to add some features that allow control of it. If they don't, well then they need to start adding links to tools like Feedburner during the sign-up process that will let someone create and manage their own feed.

Sorry, but saying that "Adam told you so" isn't enough. At the very least, it's PodShow's duty to tell you what you're getting into, and what you can and cannot do with the feed.

Eric

[X Pat Radio]

I should be able to edit my feed on Podshow. Don't try and blame me for something Podshow is doing!

[Slone]

(added) Eric you're right, however part of signing up for a service... Everyone should know the saying "You get what you pay for" - but in this case think about what you're signing up for, have a look around, ask questions, ask the company... You just can't go pointing the finger without looking at the whole picture.

What I suggested was simple:

1.) I suggested he take control over his subscribers and audience proactively for now.
2.) Preventative solution for the future
3.) A Suggestion for PodShow show admin.

EVEN IF PodShow ads some redirect for your feed, do you not have to still redirect your audience yourself to the new feed? It would even depend how long PodShow will keep the redirect for you.

Why don't you import your feed and upload it to the new server for now, cross post until your PodShow issue is resolved.

-Scott

[Slone]

I should be able to edit my feed on Podshow. Don't try and blame me for something Podshow is doing!

Are you suggesting you did not know the limits of your free service? After publishing several shows and clearly using your show control panel - You did not see the limitations related to your feed?

I was not trying to any put blame on you, but you can't go cry innocent.

[WyethDigital]

EVEN IF PodShow ads some redirect for your feed, do you not have to still redirect your audience yourself to the new feed? It would even depend how long PodShow will keep the redirect for you.
That's a fair question, Scott, and you're right, a redirect will not catch everyone. But considering that most podcast subscribers use iTunes as their aggregator, and the code that X-Pat wants to use not only redirects those people who are currently subscribed via iTunes, but also redirects the iTunes podcast directory itself to your new feed address, it will update most of his audience, and they won't even notice it (unless X-Pat talks about it in his show).

The nice thing is, once the iTunes music store has been redirected once, it doesn't need to be redirected again. The new feed address will be added to your iTunes listing. Apple says you should only need to leave the code in the feed long enough to cycle your show through a couple of episodes, just to be sure you catch the casual subscriber who only updates subscriptions occasionally.

Eric

[X Pat Radio]

EVEN IF PodShow ads some redirect for your feed, do you not have to still redirect your audience yourself to the new feed? It would even depend how long PodShow will keep the redirect for you.

Why don't you import your feed and upload it to the new server for now, cross post until your PodShow issue is resolved.

-Scott

I HAVE posted info on the "old" feed for people to move over. Now how am I supposed to import the feed to the new server?

[X Pat Radio]

Are you suggesting you did not know the limits of your free service? After publishing several shows and clearly using your show control panel - You did not see the limitations related to your feed?

I was not trying to any put blame on you, but you can't go cry innocent.

I had always thought there was a way to manualy edit the feed. I didn't have a need to edit it before, so I never looked. Since Podshow says you own your own feed, I would have though you could edit it.

[Slone]

I HAVE posted info on the "old" feed for people to move over. Now how am I supposed to import the feed to the new server?

I hope I understand your question:
You should be able to take down your PodShow Feed simply by downloading it and upload it to your new hosted account. I'm speaking of course based on my own experience, which might not apply to you. I use Feeder. I can import any feed and upload it to another server...

Download your feed from PodShow: podshowfeed.xml
Upload to new server: podshowfeed.xml

Now you're going to be using TalkShoe -- and I don't know what the setup is... Do you have that control of your feed?

I'm not trying to kill you here guy, but it's really not that hard to manage your own feed. I mean why not? Clearly you have your reasons and I respect that, but to place full blame on PodShow - I just can't see that.

I also don't know what your experience was in Podcasting before you signed up with PodShow, so that might have something to do with why you never questioned or explored accessing control of your feed. An experienced Podcaster might have explored that - that's my opinion anyway.

Hope I've been some help anyway...
Scott

[Slone]

That's a fair question, Scott, and you're right, a redirect will not catch everyone. But considering that most podcast subscribers use iTunes as their aggregator, and the code that X-Pat wants to use not only redirects those people who are currently subscribed via iTunes, but also redirects the iTunes podcast directory itself to your new feed address, it will update most of his audience, and they won't even notice it (unless X-Pat talks about it in his show).

The nice thing is, once the iTunes music store has been redirected once, it doesn't need to be redirected again. The new feed address will be added to your iTunes listing. Apple says you should only need to leave the code in the feed long enough to cycle your show through a couple of episodes, just to be sure you catch the casual subscriber who only updates subscriptions occasionally.

Eric

Eric -

What is the code being used outside of a 301? Seems I'm out of the loop on this one - so if there is something more efficient let me know. However, in my experience I've executed a 301 for a feed move - everyone including iTunes saw a change. I left it in place for 4 months before removing the .htaccess and never saw a dip in traffic.

Thanks...
Scott

[X Pat Radio]

Talkshoe is for live interactive (call in) shows. So the whole premis is different than a "traditional" podcast.

I have been podcasting about 3 years now, and joined Podshow way back in the early days.

You can't see why Podshow should have all the blame? Amazing! When someone (Podshow Joe) says "Just email me and I'll fix the feed and add the code to do the iTunes redirect" and then they don't do it. Well then who should be to blame for saying they are yet they don't?

[Slone]

If you were an "early days" guy, then you should absorb and appreciate my point with very little debate.

Your decisions regarding your feed control has been yours from day one. A result of your decision plays out here and now, and with anything in life... You give up or share control - expect delays.

However - Yes, I agree. - If someone says they will do something then they should do it. By the way - was there a timeline to get that done?

In sum - I hear you and have no doubt you're pissed. I'm guessing my view in how I manage my personal investments is different than yours.

-Scott

[X Pat Radio]

However - Yes, I agree. - If someone says they will do something then they should do it. By the way - was there a timeline to get that done?

Tuesday May 8th 2007

[WyethDigital]

Eric -

What is the code being used outside of a 301? Seems I'm out of the loop on this one - so if there is something more efficient let me know. However, in my experience I've executed a 301 for a feed move - everyone including iTunes saw a change. I left it in place for 4 months before removing the .htaccess and never saw a dip in traffic.

Thanks...
Scott
Hi Scott,

For someone that doesn't have 301 access, or doesn't know how to write for it, there's a iTunes specific code you can put in your feed that iTunes and iTunes compliant aggregators will read and automatically redirect to. Once they do, they'll keep doing it until you add the code with a new address again.

It goes right after the <channel> tag and looks like this (the URL is of course specific to the individual user):
<channel>
<itunes:new-feed-url>http://YourDomain.com/YourFeed/rss.xml</itunes:new-feed-url>

Not as efficient as the 301, but for someone that doesn't know how to write for it, it's a big help.

Eric

[Slone]

Eric - thanks for the code, I'd since did some Google searches and came up with the code. Good stuff, I just missed that I guess...

Cheers!
Scott

[PodShowJoe]

After trying to get one of my feeds moved from Podshow to Talkshoe, so far nothing has happended.

Podshow Joe said he would take care of it, but alas I don't think he has, since the feed hasn't migrated.

If he has, he hasn't told me, so its like being in the dark.

X-Pat, I have sent you an email reconfirming the details of your pending feed transfer. You sent to me one set of directions, and sent a different set of instructions to someone else here at PodShow, which has caused a bit of confusion on our end. I know that you had wanted this transfered by May 8th (your timeline)but we weren't able to accomodate that timeframe with the amount of notice provided.

As I have mentioned in my email to you, we are sad to see you go and will certainly help you take your feed with you. Currently this is a manual process, and as such does take some amount of time to accomplish. We sincerely hope to make this more automatic for users in the future. The good news is that once you provide the final details regarding your feed, I can process the transfer for you.

Cheers!

Joe

[PodShowJoe]

X-Pat -

Your feed has now been redirected per your instructions.


Let me know if you need anything else.

Joe

[X Pat Radio]

As I have mentioned in my email to you, we are sad to see you go and will certainly help you take your feed with you.

Joe

I've still got 2 shows on Podshow.com I am moving the show in question becuase Talkshoe.com allows for live callers and more interaction in real time.

They also pay, which is cool too.

[X Pat Radio]

X-Pat -

Your feed has now been redirected per your instructions.


Let me know if you need anything else.

Joe

Seems to be working fine. Perhaps you could mention to whoever takes the liveperson.com feedback (or similar company) that it is possible to do.

[Pats Podcast]

Hi everyone:But Adam Curry said last summer when PodShow launched and "mistakenly" hijacked all those feeds that (paraphrasing here) your feed is your feed! Apparently, that doesn't count for the free PodShow hosting accounts.

From the contracts that have leaked to the public, it was very clear from the verbiage within them that PodShow values it's own contributions to podcasting more than it values the content that has built it. This situation only serves to illustrate the point. Yes, you're given free hosting and bandwidth, but in exchange, PodShow is given a vehicle to run it's ads on without any further compensation to the owner of the content. And when a podcaster such as yourself wants to move one of his podcasts (and his audience) to a network that will not only run ads and provide free hosting and bandwidth, but pay him for it, well PodShow's not gonna make it easy.In which case, your ONLY recourse X Pat is to simply log onto FeedBurner, have it point to your new feed, and just simply don't upload to PodShow anymore.

That's what I'd do If I were in your shoes.

Sure your old shows would still be on PodShow, but if you do enough shows, the ones still on PodShow will be buried faster than you can say Rumplestilskin backwards (Or forwards if you're one whose tongue frequently gets tied up :lol: ).This should serve as a warning to anyone looking into free podcast hosting that uses something other than traditional blogging tools like Wordpress and Typepad, that they should beware.As I mentioned in another thread, for my current talk show I'm working on, I'm using a combination of Blogger (http://www.blogger.com/), Geocities (http://www.geocities.com/) (For the rest of show website), ProBoards (http://www.proboards.com/) (For the show's message board) plus two free streaming hosts to broadcast with.

This is IN ADDITION TO PodcastPeople (http://www.podcastpeople.com/), the current podcast host of both my audio and video podcasts.

JFWIW.... :D

Cheers :D

[Pats Podcast]

Hi everyone:You can't see why Podshow should have all the blame? Amazing! When someone (Podshow Joe) says "Just email me and I'll fix the feed and add the code to do the iTunes redirect" and then they don't do it. Well then who should be to blame for saying they are yet they don't?Well "Podshow Joe" may have also given you some bad information by misleading you in believing that he can do something which he may not have the authorization or other permission to do. Have you thought of THAT X Pat?

I'd put the blame on this "Podshow Joe" person for misleading you in believing that he can do something which he may not have the authorization or other permission to doI'd put the blame on Podshow itself.

But then too....That's just me I suppose....

Cheers :D

[Pats Podcast]

Hi everyone:Don't try and blame me for something Podshow is doing!That's just it. Podshow isn't doing anything NOR ARE THEY OBLIGATED TO.

What part of that do you not understand X Pat?

Cheers :D

[Pats Podcast]

Hi everyone:Why don't you import your feed and upload it to the new server for now, cross post until your PodShow issue is resolved.You can't upload a non-Talkshoe RSS feed to TalkShoe's servers Scott. I dunno if you've checked it out yet, but TalkShoe is just how X Pat described it - A LIVE streaming interactive host.

Yes, they do have podcasting features, but the audio quality of the archive isn't what you would want to subject your listeners with their iPods to (I mean we're talking AT BEST TELEPHONE quality).

To check 'em out, you can click here (http://www.talkshoe.com/).

That said though, as someone indicated earlier, there's no reason why he can't do one of two things....

1). Download the Podshow XML file from Podshow and upload it to his own external website (Like Geocities for instance).

2). Build a new site on someplace like Blogger and create a link to the Podshow feed URL and label it OLD ARCHIVES or something like that.

How hard are either of those two things X Pat? Surely they can't be THAT hard.

Basically put X Pat, you're making a freakin' MOUNTAIN out of a little dinky moehill (sp?) (And acting CHILDISH in the process!).

Just an FYI & my opinion :D

Cheers :D

[WyethDigital]

Hi everyone:That's just it. Podshow isn't doing anything NOR ARE THEY OBLIGATED TO.

What part of that do you not understand X Pat?

Cheers :D

Actually, they are obligated to to do something, if what Adam Curry has said is true ("your feed is your feed"). If it's your feed, then they either need to make it accessible to you, or modify or fix it for you. Doesn't get any plainer than that.

Eric

[WyethDigital]

Yes, they do have podcasting features, but the audio quality of the archive isn't what you would want to subject your listeners with their iPods to (I mean we're talking AT BEST TELEPHONE quality).
First of all, you can actually use SIP VOIP and get a very good quality show. For those that are participating on TalkShoe without that, the host can record himself on his end, then mix it so he sounds great, the people on voip sound great, and the phone people sound like they're on phones (which is what you get on call-in radio shows anyway).

That said though, as someone indicated earlier, there's no reason why he can't do one of two things....

1). Download the Podshow XML file from Podshow and upload it to his own external website (Like Geocities for instance).

2). Build a new site on someplace like Blogger and create a link to the Podshow feed URL and label it OLD ARCHIVES or something like that.

How hard are either of those two things X Pat? Surely they can't be THAT hard.
Pat, those things can get your old shows for you, but they can't redirect your audience to your new feed automatically. That's the whole point of what X-Pat was trying to do!

Basically put X Pat, you're making a freakin' MOUNTAIN out of a little dinky moehill (sp?) (And acting CHILDISH in the process!).
Maybe he is, and maybe he isn't. Yes, he should have used Feedburner or his own domain to begin with (a lesson learned, I'm sure) but it's his audience that he's built. PodShow didn't build it for him. So I'd say he's entitled to be a little miffed when PodShow breaks a promise ("your feed is yours"). He should be able to take his audience with his show.


Eric

[Barefoot Radio.com]

If I'm not mistaken, certain URLs have been snatched up....

podshow.com/marijuanaradio for example....

and probably others...

I wonder who signed up those accounts or made them impossible for us to get.

I'm not blaming anyone, I just find it interesting.

[Barefoot Radio.com]

Oh hey, regarding ownership of your feed....if someone is 'serious' about doing a program long term, host and own your feed 100%.

Don't start out a 'serious' project by signing your feed on with podshow or feedburner or something. (unless you're already a podshow talent)

But, what do I know?????? blah

[EmilyMc]

Coudl you copyt he rss feed on podshow into another, or is that posible/ We use a totaly different feed for our podcat, but use podshow for storeage

[hectorloshuk]

to be honest, its the whole concept that eludes me. I just dont get it at all. Id like to see some screenies or video of the most current build. But as I said, its the concept in general that I do not like. At least from what Ive seen and experienced thus far.

[hectorloshuk]

Doesnt work for me either.

One, no Disney Visa and two, I will be home before Free Dining begins.

The thread is over 112 pages long that has all the chatter. Thought Id save us some time trying to read through it.

[celebsfann]

Thats one of the fun parts of beta, in my opinion finding the bugs that is. So people using those links is encourged we dont want a broken site and we are always looking for ways to make it better.

[careygold]

Yes you are right..!!! I am agree with you.

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