Mixer to 'mic' input, audio loss?

[MercuryLime]

hey guys,

I'm buying a new podcasting setup soon and I had a question. I'm planning to use a mixer to output to a 1/4" cable, convert it to 1/8", and plug that into the microphone input on my laptop. I don't have firewire, and USB mixers are more expensive than the one I'm getting ($40 non-USB). I asked Muscian's Friend and they said that using the microphone input would give me lower audio quality than a firewire or usb.

So my question is: What are the audio quality limits of recording to a 'mic' input? anyone know the actual numbers?

Thanks in advance.

[roadrageradio]

hey guys,

I'm buying a new podcasting setup soon and I had a question. I'm planning to use a mixer to output to a 1/4" cable, convert it to 1/8", and plug that into the microphone input on my laptop. I don't have firewire, and USB mixers are more expensive than the one I'm getting ($40 non-USB). I asked Muscian's Friend and they said that using the microphone input would give me lower audio quality than a firewire or usb.

So my question is: What are the audio quality limits of recording to a 'mic' input? anyone know the actual numbers?

Thanks in advance.

Does your sound card have line-in? If so, use that instead. The mixer will amplify the mic signal to the level of line-in and you avoid the really crappy pre-amp circuit in the mic input of your sound card.

If you don't have line-in, get another sound card. Really. The one you have is a POS.

As for going from 1/4 inch to 1/8 inch, you can get a stereo plug adaptor at places like Radio shack. Put the adaptor in your main out and plug a 1/8 inch male-male cable into the adaptor and the other end into the line-in of your sound card.

Or you can get a cable that has 1/4 inch plug on one end, and 1/8 inch plug on the other, but those may be harder to find.

[X Pat Radio]

hey guys,

I'm buying a new podcasting setup soon and I had a question. I'm planning to use a mixer to output to a 1/4" cable, convert it to 1/8", and plug that into the microphone input on my laptop. I don't have firewire, and USB mixers are more expensive than the one I'm getting ($40 non-USB). I asked Muscian's Friend and they said that using the microphone input would give me lower audio quality than a firewire or usb.

So my question is: What are the audio quality limits of recording to a 'mic' input? anyone know the actual numbers?

Thanks in advance.

Don't use a mic input, use line-in. If you dont have line-in, you can get a USB interface for $30 (http://www.americanmusical.com/item--i-BEH-UCA202.html)

I haven't used that one, but I use the FCA202 firewire unit.

[MercuryLime]

Thanks. I understand that USB is "better", but I'm trying to decide if it's worth the extra money - after you compress the files as mp3, is there really much of a difference than using the mic input?

PS - no, I don't have a line in.

[roadrageradio]

Thanks. I understand that USB is "better", but I'm trying to decide if it's worth the extra money - after you compress the files as mp3, is there really much of a difference than using the mic input?

PS - no, I don't have a line in.

In a word, YES. The mp3 compression comes last, which means that every defect in the audio chain -- crackles, noise, hum, etc. -- will be subject to what the mp3 gods do to it.

For one thing, your mixer is putting out a line level signal, and the mic input is expecting a much lower level. You will have to be very careful not to overload it or you will get harsh horrible distortion, UNLISTENABLE.

For another, even if you can control the input levels, the sound card itself is junk -- Maybe ok for gaming or telephone calls, but obviously not intended for audio work. (Why am I so sure? Because there's no line-in)

Maybe it would be better for you to use a portable recorder like an iRiver. Then you could forget the mixer and ignore your soundcard. USB from the recorder into your computer and go from there. You can get a 256 M iRiver 8xx from overstock.com for about what you're spending on the mixer.

[X Pat Radio]

Thanks. I understand that USB is "better", but I'm trying to decide if it's worth the extra money - after you compress the files as mp3, is there really much of a difference than using the mic input?

PS - no, I don't have a line in.

Until you save the file, its not an MP3. Mic and line in are at different levels. I would suggest you buy the Behringer interface and use USB,

[lucky_groom]

I record from a mixer to the mic in on my laptop - just the standard mic in that came built into the unit. It does a good job. After I record I do noise removal (I think the noise is in my mixer, btw) and everything sounds great. Don't spend the money if your just getting started, IMO.

I fact - I also use my laptop as an audio source by sending the headphones out to a in on the mixer and then running the main outs back to the mic in.

Take a listen to a few minutes of the show and see what you think of the results.

[X Pat Radio]

I record from a mixer to the mic in on my laptop - just the standard mic in that came built into the unit. It does a good job. After I record I do noise removal (I think the noise is in my mixer, btw) and everything sounds great.

Please don't take offense, but is it a Behringer mixer? I had a UB802 that had noise issues. I didn't know it was the mixer until I replaced it with a Mackie 1402 VLZ

[lucky_groom]

Please don't take offense, but is it a Behringer mixer? I had a UB802 that had noise issues. I didn't know it was the mixer until I replaced it with a Mackie 1402 VLZ

Why would I take offense? I'm placing blame on the mixer as well.

Yeah - it's a Behringer MBX1002. I used to have a lot of noise and I traced it to a bad mic plug, but there is still even after fixing that. It still could be the mics - they're lower cost dynamic mics, but I've learned that Berhingers are known to be noisey.

[X Pat Radio]

Please don't take offense, but is it a Behringer mixer? I had a UB802 that had noise issues. I didn't know it was the mixer until I replaced it with a Mackie 1402 VLZ

Why would I take offense? I'm placing blame on the mixer as well.

Yeah - it's a Behringer MBX1002. I used to have a lot of noise and I traced it to a bad mic plug, but there is still even after fixing that. It still could be the mics - they're lower cost dynamic mics, but I've learned that Berhingers are known to be noisey.

Thats why Behringers are cheaper. I use a Shure SM57 mic, which cost $90. Its a lower cost compared to other XLR based dynamic mics, at least when I was looking.

[MercuryLime]

Maybe it would be better for you to use a portable recorder like an iRiver. Then you could forget the mixer and ignore your soundcard. USB from the recorder into your computer and go from there. You can get a 256 M iRiver 8xx from overstock.com for about what you're spending on the mixer.

What's the difference between an iRiver's mic input and a computer mic input? No pre-amp? (doesn't really matter, just wondering)

I decided I'm going to try it though the 'mic' input on my laptop for now, and if the audio quality is bad, I'll get the Behringer USB input and connect the mixer to that instead.

Thanks for the help, guys.

[roadrageradio]

Maybe it would be better for you to use a portable recorder like an iRiver. Then you could forget the mixer and ignore your soundcard. USB from the recorder into your computer and go from there. You can get a 256 M iRiver 8xx from overstock.com for about what you're spending on the mixer.

What's the difference between an iRiver's mic input and a computer mic input? No pre-amp? (doesn't really matter, just wondering)

I decided I'm going to try it though the 'mic' input on my laptop for now, and if the audio quality is bad, I'll get the Behringer USB input and connect the mixer to that instead.

Thanks for the help, guys.

(Sigh). I don't have the circuit specs for either one, but let me speculate.

The iRiver mic input is made for recording human voice. It is designed to provide plug-in power to an electret mic and produce reasonably good sounding audio recordings. It has a built-in gain control to allow you to set the output level to avoid distortion and get the best signal to noise ratio possible with the hardware. I know this because I use one practically every day.

A generic computer sound card is made to be as cheap as possible, because it is a tiny giveaway component of the computer. Most computer users never use their mic input. Most computer makers could not care less about the audio quality of their mic input, because computers only use their sound cards to play sounds, not record them.

Any sound card worth using for recording would have a line-in. That doesn't necessarily make the sound card good, but it does mean it was designed to actually be used for recording.

[oldradioguy]

well, i'll admit, i did spend a LOT of money on a high-end sound card. i like it, using line in with my gear. i was going to try a usb interface and update all my stuff, but this has been working well. i'm using "old-time" (back then) state of the art radio gear and i am quite pleased with the final sound. i decided NOT to get to wrapped up in equipment and concentrate on content.

i'll point out a VERY interesting thing, however...a few years ago (not too long either), i consulted for an fm stereo radio station that went to computer automation (ack!), i advised them - at that point - what compter and sound card they needed. to my surprise, the gm picked up a box at wally world with a soundcard that could NOT have cost the manufacturer 15 bucks. i installed the software, my enigineer hooked up a 6,000 arrakis board to this cheap-a**ed card (which i thought was pretty silly) and i'll be dipped if the darned thing didn't sound like any other radio station on the air. heck, they probably could have gotten by with a rat shack low-end mixer instead, lol. end processing was a VERY cheap dbx unit, as well, on the transmitter's side.

you guys worry about equipment too much :wink: have no fear...i USED too, myself.

[docsnavely]

to the thread starter....

have you been podcasting long? (rhetorical)

if not, don't spend the money on all this new nice gear until you get a couple months under your belt, and know you're going to keep the podcasts going.

you'll be pretty upset if you buy all his gear, and loose the podcasting flame weeks later...

if you've been at this for a while, please ignore me and have fun shopping! :)

[BrianGentry]

Actual numbers are going to be 100% dependant upon the sound card you use. For example, the built in sound card on my Shuttle PC sounded fine when listening to various audio media. But when I decided to use the microphone input to record some stuff, it sounded horrible. Unacceptably noisy. The line input was bad too.

I got an external Soundblaster sound card (which BTW, connects via USB) and all was very quiet and noise free.

There are other sound cards (internal or built in) that sound great. It's a bit of a roll of the dice, or more accurately, a difference based upon what your manufacturer put inside your computer. In general Musician's Friend is right because "audio interfaces" (just a fancy name for an external sound card) have more care put into their design, as compared to basic consumer sound cards. There are PLENTY of people though, that find their internal sound cards to be perfectly adequate for their recording needs. Try yours and see if you like it or not.

Brian.