Barefoot Radio Press. Positive? Negative?

[Barefoot Radio.com]

http://denver.bizjournals.com/denver/stories/2006/06/19/story3.html?i=47873

Doesn't this put a negative spin on the prospect of monetizing podcasting?

Brian of Coverville did a good job contributing to this in a positive way.

Anyone who cares about the podcasting industry becoming established shouldn't paint a pessimistic picture.

If you get press, YOU INCREASE THE PERCIEVED VALUE OF PODCASTING BY BEING OPTIMISTIC ABOUT THE POSSIBILITIES! Don't be one of those people who says why things aren't possible.

[evilproducer]

Seems to me that it put a realistic spin on things. The negative aspects seemed more connected to short term profit. Most people seemed to think there was a way to turn a profit- just maybe not in the traditional ways people think about. I didn't read one comment where a podcaster seemed to express a desire to get out of it, rather they all seemed hopeful of the future success of podcasting.

I don't know, but if it were me, and I was featured in a major article like that, I would be crowing from the rooftops (unless they trashed my reputation.) So my question to you is, why aren't you crowing? Weren't you on the first page of the article? They didn't call you nuts, just pointed out the risks and the potential. What more could you want? It was an article and not an advertisement. In other words, unlike Fox News, it's supposed to be balanced. Pro and Con. :?

Later,
Evil.

[goliardhk]

Speaking as someone with some years' experience as a journalist and PR consultant, I'd be extremely happy with that piece.

[Barefoot Radio.com]

My point is still that if you are a person who is investing heavily in podcasting, there is nothing one should be pessimistic about to the press. We increase the value of the whole industry by getting good press that substantiates it as a business model.

I'll get back to here with some stupid mistakes I made. I'm not ready to talk about some stuff publicly yet(because I need to talk to some people first).

I know that half the time I'm a big *** in these forums, but I mean it when I say that pessimism in the press about podcasting helps none of us.

Nothing is a success overnight. There will be the breakouts in podcasting. I'm not talking about people monetizing their hobby. Like the lifespan of bands, most podcasters of today are destined to fade.

[evilproducer]

Douglas Fasching, organizer of Denver Area Podcasters, said he doubts podcasting's profitability ever would match up to its growing popularity. Denver Area Podcasters, which meets occasionally at the Wynkoop Brewing Company restaurant in Lower Downtown, has about 45 members.

"A number of people are looking for ways to 'monetize' podcasting," he said. "I'm not against it, but it seems unlikely. There's so much you can get for free anyway."

Fasching, a software developer who lives in Bailey, hosts a podcast called "I Am Not Dustin," in which he interviews his brother, Dustin, about the trials and tribulations about being a struggling actor.

Fasching said the podcast has reached about 400 people by including a link to iamnotdustin.com in his e-mails.

Like most podcasters, Fasching is a hobbyist with no expectations of getting a return on his investment.

"For me personally, I'm talking to my brother anyway, so I might as well put it out there," he said. "My brother leads an interesting life and my family has supported his efforts to be an actor for a long time. Basically, it's my way of getting him more recognition."

This seemed to me to be the most "negative" comment by a podcaster, and it clearly states that he is a hobbyist. He's doing it to give exposure to his brother. He also said that he doesn't expect profits to grow as fast as podcasting. Think about that. If podcasting profits grew as fast as podcasting then everybody with a podcast- "profesionals" as well as hobbyists could quit their day jobs.

He's saying essentially that it is going to be difficult. But what in life is easy? If earning money and living the lifestyle we dream about were easy, there wouldn't be people debating how to go about making money with a podcast.

Look, this isn't about being an *** or not being an ***. It's not about mistakes made. Established industries and companies make plenty of mistakes.

The issue is that you think this is a 'puff 'n gush piece.' It's not. It's clearly in a business oriented publication. It is read by investors. It is the author's responsibility to provide both sides so as to give accurate guidance about a fast growing trend that people are passionate about. It's about the potential and the pitfalls.

It's great that you're passionate about podcasting and it's potential, but seriously, you need to understand there are going to be critics. It's not all going to be accolades. If you can't understand that, or if you can't look at issues objectively, you run the risk of failure.

Sorry about the missive. my $.02 worth.

Later,
Evil.

[Barefoot Radio.com]

I'm happy because it's my first front page picture in a major publication, and there's a SUPER pic of the show name there next to me.

I'm still saying that if one cares about building podcasting as an industry, when one is in the media, build it up. So much of it is a matter of perception. Pessimism can kill it, and whether or not podcasting is a fad, it is still a way for people to develop a large audience and jump to a more established format(sattelite or terrestrial radio).

I need to read this article again. I read it in the midst of passing out for the day yesterday.

My point is still that those who care about building up the industry ought to be as optimistic as possible. Optimism is better for the optimal outcome.

Success is not overnight. Just because people haven't made a fortune yet doesn't mean it won't happen.

It hasn't even been a year yet since the podcasting expo and once again people think the whole game is over. Nobody really knows, but I prefer it when people infuse optimism into the mix.

Moreover, one thing is that podcasting is something that's part of a much larger context. Radio, or audio entertainment, or whatever you want to call it.

There are hobby musicians, and there are serious musicians, for a hobby person to say that success isn't likely, he/she is only saying, "it's not possible because I'm cynical."

I still believe in the great power of podcasting. That's all I'm really saying, and others need to believe too. Such a belief can only come from other passionate believers.

This is not me whining, it's me saying to people, HAVE MORE PRIDE IN PODCASTING. Have pride or don't do it. I am sure that I'm misunderstood with some people no matter what I say.

[evilproducer]

I understand your point, and I would suggest you read the article again.

No one was bashing podcasting. The article was about profitability, and different ways and ideas to achieve it. It was also about objectively portraying the risks for those ignorant or new to the medium.

You're positive about podcasting- that's great. Have you made money yet? No? Will you? Maybe. If you can find a revenue stream. That's the point of the article. It's a new industry. The revenue stream hasn't been defined (and it may not be for sometime.) There are risks involved for investors, which is who the article and publication is geared to.

A fledgling industry needs boosters, but boosterism without pragmatism will eventually backfire.

Think of the dot-com bust. Everybody was ballyhooing the internet and the new economy. Companies would roll out IPOs at high prices. the public goobled it up. But when it became obvious that many of these companies were founded on bad ideas, obscure ideas an poorly planned or heavily exaggerated revenue streams, the **** hit the fan.

Is this the fate for podcasting. I doubt it, because most people do it as form of expression and personal enjoyment. Those doing it to make money though, would be wise not to over-inflate the short term potential for profit in podcasting. It's all about reality.

Should you give it up? Hell no! But be realistic about the risks to yourself and potential investors or sponsors. You may be the next big breakout, but to make it seem as if that will be the case for everybody is wrong. That doesn't mean they shouldn't try.

If I were cynical, I'd say why bother 99.9% will never "make it," but I'm not. Who knows, El Nacho could be the next Jim Carrey, but then again he may not. As long as he enjoys it and gets exposure the possibility is there- not the guarantee.
Later,
Evil.

[SteveRunner]

...whether or not podcasting is a fad, it is still a way for people to develop a large audience and jump to a more established format(sattelite or terrestrial radio).

I agreed with everything you had to say up to this point.

I don't belive PodCasting is a fad, but I sincerly hope that it is not a way to "jump to a more established format".

PodCasting, in it's free-form ability to break the barriers of established forms...IS the new and improved format.

Trust me on this, pick up the latest edition of Radio World (the newspaper for radio managers and engineers). Terrestrial radio is dying...it really is, there is just no mistake about it and anyone who says otherwise is either mis-informed, lying or in deep denial.

Sorry about that, but that's the fact.

Congratulations on the press! As a fellow PodCaster I appreciate your passion for our media!

- Steve

[tokies]

40,000


****.................... wow

[mental-escher]

Any press is good press- so well done!

The author did not make any critic of your actual podcast, only the dubious "build it and they will come" business model.

The article does make some interesting points though- people ARE monitizing using podcasting by using PC's to promote their tangible (goods and media) products

However, the author seems skeptical that building a 40K studio and hoping to make money off a "Howard Stern-styled talk show focused on politics, religion, music, popular culture and prank phone calls" is a good business model, though other have succeeded when they had an actual product (he used an internet game company as example) and by focusing on cheap eyecandy-making technology rather than expensive (relative to income) equipment.

I think that for non-corporate podcasts to actually make money, you'd better have something people want (good music, fiction, commentary, humor, etc.) at price they are willing to pay (free).

If you wanna be Howard Stern, you're too late, there already is a very good one (Howard himself, albeit via subcription, but it's still a **** hard act to follow).

If you have some original concept, be it cover music, art, fiction, etc., then it just is about building enough audience (10K-100k/day) till you can pimp ads on your show.

If you don't offer something unique, then you better be a **** good (entertaining) comedian, or commentator, 'cause just about all the news and current events you'd ever want to know about are already podcasted very well by reputible outlets (CNET, slashdot, NPR, BBC, AussieBC, etc).

[mental-escher]

BTW - that photo of you in the article is scary **** man- is your target audience disposible income 18-28yr olds, or freaking death row inmates?!?!?

Maybe you should consider a little more broadly appealing PR compaign- you know: pics with hot chicks with seductive looks, or at least smile for krysts sake.

[tokies]

anypress is good press.. as he said...

[SFEley]

I know that half the time I'm a big *** in these forums, but I mean it when I say that pessimism in the press about podcasting helps none of us.

On this we completely, totally, unequivocably agree.

[evilproducer]

I know that half the time I'm a big *** in these forums, but I mean it when I say that pessimism in the press about podcasting helps none of us.

On this we completely, totally, unequivocably agree.

That being said, do you have anything to add? Y'know, to the discussion. :wink:

Later,
Evil.

[Barefoot Radio.com]

I'm not trying to be Howard Stern. That's a misconception everyone has. Howard Stern has become an adjective to describe ANYONE who behaves a little bit over the top. Even Howard uses it to describe all of his competition which is a crock of ****. People are unique in and of themselves. I say it all the time!

Incidentally, my wife read the article, I read it again, and I put it in a more positive perspective.

I love everyone being skeptical. I'm not up to nothing over here, and I may have a few ideas to lead me out of the darkness. You guys will hear.

I've started booking bands to perform LIVE during the show. Over the course of the coming months and year you're going to hear a much more involved and crazy Barefoot Radio.

BTW - that photo of you in the article is scary sh*t man- is your target audience disposible income 18-28yr olds, or freaking death row inmates?!?!?

Maybe you should consider a little more broadly appealing PR compaign- you know: pics with hot chicks with seductive looks, or at least smile for krysts sake.

It's Denver Business Journal. I totally think what you're talking about will work when I do Rolling Stone Magazine. :)

The pic is good dude, what are you talking about? I'm hot.

[Barefoot Radio.com]

I'm also making other contacts with local celebs, media, publishers, comedy clubs etc.

[SFEley]

On this we completely, totally, unequivocably agree.

That being said, do you have anything to add? Y'know, to the discussion. :wink:

You're new here. I said more than you think.

On the article: it was a fluff piece, lacking focus and with a number of factual errors. (The closing line about Rocketboom's auction was the most glaring to me.) The author goes overboard on personal backgrounds and unrelated activities, at the expense of any real examination of podcast revenue strategies or future trends. It wasn't really anti-podcasting, but it certainly was patronizing.

On the commentary: I think Mental Escher nailed it when he said the "Build it and they will come" business model was the real target of cynicism in the piece. And it's deserved. $40,000 for an in-town podcast studio isn't an investment, it's a whim. It won't grow your audience; any improvements in sound quality will be far out of proportion to the cost; and while it may have some positive benefit in creating a professional image for sponsors, it won't be a deal-closer for them.

You'll never make that money back selling T-shirts or punching ads through Podtrac. T-shirts don't scale, and podcast ads are normalizing to low values. "Hoping for a combination of good luck and good planning" isn't actually good planning. If you expect to make a profit from that studio, running it as a music studio is really the only hope. Podcasting would become the secondary business activity, not the primary one.

As for whether Paul identifies with Howard Stern: Dude. You praise Howard Stern all the time in the forums here. (He's one of only three people you talk about. Mike from Red Bar Radio and yourself are the other two.) You named him as your inspiration, your primary influence, and your competitive goal in your Podcaster Confessions interview. Your RSS feed is tagged with "Howard Stern" in the iTunes keywords. And your show is clearly structured to include the same elements. Yes, you do have your own style and some points of innovation -- your announced plan for live music in the podcast is a nice touch, BTW -- but it's pretty obvious that your fundamental content and audience strategy is following a trail that's been blazed, cleared, and paved.


All that said, however, I strongly agree that all podcasters should be presenting a positive image in the press as much as possible. Intentions may not create reality, but they're a component of creation, and so is popular perception. Presenting a bright future for podcasting is only common sense. (I also think it happens to be true, although not in the "Radio killer" sense that so many seem to think.)

[evilproducer]

BTW - that photo of you in the article is scary sh*t man- is your target audience disposible income 18-28yr olds, or freaking death row inmates?!?!?

Maybe you should consider a little more broadly appealing PR compaign- you know: pics with hot chicks with seductive looks, or at least smile for krysts sake.

Emphasis mine

Quit misspelling my name. Oh yeah, shouldn't that be a possesive? Something like, "...or at least smile for Christ's sake." :twisted:

Incidentally, my wife read the article, I read it again, and I put it in a more positive perspective.

I love everyone being skeptical. I'm not up to nothing over here, and I may have a few ideas to lead me out of the darkness. You guys will hear.

I'm glad you re-read the article with a new set of eyes.

I'm not sure what you mean by everyone being skeptical. Did you mean of you, or of profitably podcasting?

If it's you, I have no reason to be skeptical of you, because I don't know you. If you mean of making money podcasting, then I'll split hairs and say that I do believe that there is money to be had, but maybe not as many as you think will be able to get on the gravy train. Talent will shine through. I guess I'd consider myself not skeptical but more pragmatic.

You sound like you have some great ideas for improving your show and gaining listeners. I wouldn't feel as if I were in darkness. If you feel depressed consistently, then maybe it's time to seek some help. I'm not trying to be facetious, it's just concern from somebody that has had a loved one sink into depression.

Later,
Evil.

[evilproducer]

You're new here. I said more than you think.

New to posting here. I've been lurking for quite some time. Besides, isn't your comment a bit arrogant? "Ohhh, he's new so he doesn't know what he's talking about...blah blah."

If nothing else you may need new glasses, as I clearly used an emoticon to indicate it was meant in a humorous vain. Quit being so sensitive. Yeesh! :roll:

Later,
Evil.

[Barefoot Radio.com]

but it's pretty obvious that your fundamental content and audience strategy is following a trail that's been blazed, cleared, and paved.

So I should quit?

Anyone who ever thinks of singing, or picking up a guitar and joining a band, DON'T DO IT because it's all been done before. Nobody should ever try anything because others have done it before? That's the ***'s philosophy, my friend.

SFley, you're one of those people who is all down on me because you can't distinguish your professional opinion from your righteous dislike for someone. Ok, you haven't connected to my show, but ****, I've made enough of an impression on you for you to add your insulting two cents where it wasn't even necessary.

SFley you're already opposed to me no matter what. I'm wasting my breath here and now if you're silly you'll post something along the lines of "blah blah blah." If you were shrewd enough to see when I'm discussing the topic of podcasting seriously, you might be actually INTERESTED in the discussion other than an opportune moment for you to tell me how I'm so lame.

You can't take the megalomania out of a megalomaniac.

All that said, however, I strongly agree that all podcasters should be presenting a positive image in the press as much as possible.

We're on the same page here, but you still seem to sit around and hope for a guy like me to fail. Would that be correct?

[Soccer Shout]

podcast ads are normalizing to low values.

Steve - what information do you have to this point? Fifty bucks per thousand has been thrown around a lot. What's the number you think we should be using?

[SFEley]

New to posting here. I've been lurking for quite some time. Besides, isn't your comment a bit arrogant? "Ohhh, he's new so he doesn't know what he's talking about...blah blah."

Not at all. My comment was intended to suggest that, given my past history with Paul, being in total agreement with him on something was a more significant event than you possibly realized.


If nothing else you may need new glasses, as I clearly used an emoticon to indicate it was meant in a humorous vain. Quit being so sensitive. Yeesh! :roll:
Who's being sensitive? It was a throwaway line, meant to be mildly amusing to Paul and other Alley veterans who remember prior threads. If you want to read it as some sort of insult, go ahead, but you haven't got me worked up.

I do find it interesting, though, that this was the only part of my post that you considered worth commenting on. You might notice that I typed some stuff after that line, in direct response to your request that I contribute something of substance to the discussion. I guess that's not what you're here for after all, huh?

[Metaphore]

I got it at least SFEley.

I now return you to your regularly schedueled argument.

[SFEley]

but it's pretty obvious that your fundamental content and audience strategy is following a trail that's been blazed, cleared, and paved.

So I should quit?
I didn't say that at all. I was simply providing evidence that your statement, "I'm not trying to be Howard Stern," is inconsistent with your past statements and behavior. It seems clear to my casual eye that you are trying to be Howard Stern, and you've all but said so in prior records. (The same ones in which you claim to be the hardest working person in podcasting, to be the most professional, yadda yadda.*)

I wasn't in any way, shape or form suggesting that you should quit. There's nothing inherently wrong with trying to be Howard Stern. After all, it worked once. I just think you should be honest about it. Don't renounce your strategy and values just because others notice. You're made of Sterner stuff than that!**


We're on the same page here, but you still seem to sit around and hope for a guy like me to fail. Would that be correct?
No, in total honesty, I'd love it if you succeeded. You say a lot of stupid things, and I don't think you're making the best decisions much of the time, but I don't want you to fail. On the contrary, if you can hit it big despite that, then there's hope and glory for all of us. >8->


* (And if you ever happen to wonder why you annoy the crap out of me, that's the reason right there. It's not that you have ambition. That's admirable. It's that you frequently pose as if you're the only podcaster with ambition, and make idiotic pronouncements like telling Joseph Nilo, "I work more than every other podcaster out there." Failing to appreciate others is why you're annoying.)

** (And some of you think I'm too serious. "Sterner stuff!" I slay me!)

[SFEley]

podcast ads are normalizing to low values.

Steve - what information do you have to this point? Fifty bucks per thousand has been thrown around a lot. What's the number you think we should be using?

Fifty bucks per thousand has been thrown around a lot, but not in association with any particular deal. It's higher than what I've seen in the real world. Even the famous Rocketboom auction came to an equivalent $40 CPM, and that seems on the high end of typical from the anecdotal evidence I've gleaned. That compares unfavorably with radio, TV, and most periodical advertising, and doesn't give proper value to the advantages of a podcast audience in my opinion.

And don't forget, if you're working with an agency such as Podtrac or Kiptronic, they're going to take 25% to 30%. That's not unfair, mind you -- I have nothing bad to say about Podtrac's or Kiptronic's business model* -- but at a $40 CPM, your actual take will be $30 or less. Hold that up against your real download counts and consider how much growth you'll need before this will make a huge difference to your life.

Or to take the specific case in point, consider what it would take to pay off a $40,000 studio with it. Say, before any rent, overhead, interest, or other costs, and assuming you'd sell ads every week. I've done that math. Unless your download count starts in the tens of thousands per episode, it's not easy.


* (Podshow can take 60%, and I have a lot bad to say about their business model, but that's off-topic here.)

[evilproducer]

Who's being sensitive? It was a throwaway line, meant to be mildly amusing to Paul and other Alley veterans who remember prior threads. If you want to read it as some sort of insult, go ahead, but you haven't got me worked up.

I do find it interesting, though, that this was the only part of my post that you considered worth commenting on. You might notice that I typed some stuff after that line, in direct response to your request that I contribute something of substance to the discussion. I guess that's not what you're here for after all, huh?

Actually I did read your following comments in their entirety. I didn't mention it because:

1) you did follow my advice and post something relevant.

2) I had to get ready to go to work, so I didn't have time for a longer post. I'm not that fast a typer.

If I took your comments out of context, then I'm sorry, but judging by Paul's comment I'm not the only one. In fact I would say that judging by some of your comments in other threads that I've read, you can be just as much a prick as anyone. Myself included.

So on with the prickery :!:

I do think Paul (and you as well,) are missing the point somewhat by continually suggesting that if you podcast then you need to be constantly positive to the press. You do seem to have a bit more of a grasp on the financials than most from what I've seen.

Fluff pieces belong in the entertainment section of the paper, not the business section. There are hard questions to ask and being honest is not always being negative or bashing podcasting. People need to be less reactionary to what they perceive as bad press. If there are innacuracies in the article, call or write the editor and ask for a correction. Or write a letter for the letters page.

I'll admit my ignorance on the financial aspect of 'casting. I don't have a podcast, but am considering starting one next year, depending on my financial situation and other obligations. I would do it more for the creative outlet, and not entirely the money, but it is something that I hope appeals to people and can at least support the cost of the podcast itself. I'm enough of a realist to understand that it will more likely than not lose money.

Later,
Evil.

[TPS]

I'll just throw in my 2 cents....

Barefoot Radio is some good stuff.....

[evilproducer]

I'll just throw in my 2 cents....

Barefoot Radio is some good stuff.....

Cool. So as a listener, what would you like to see him do to increase the value of his show. What do you think would be a good revenue stream, merchandising, commercials, etc.?

Just curious.

Later,
Evil.

[Barefoot Radio.com]

Barefoot Radio is some good stuff....

Thank you. :)


Joseph Nilo, "I work more than every other podcaster out there." Failing to appreciate others is why you're annoying

If this is why you judge me as a person you are as one dimensional as your feeling that I'm annoying. I said it, it's an expression, and so what?? It's so childish to personalize that statement to the degree you do. As if I said it on purpose to offend other podcasters. No, it's just an expression that states how hard I've been working. Keep digging for reasons not to like me. Got more?

I work harder than you, SFley. I have to succeed, therefore, I work harder. That's a pussy statement to fall on to continue your criticism of me.

Really, you go remember forever how I said that I work harder than any other podcaster. Everyone should beat me up. I'm so terrible for saying that i work harder than everyone else.

SFley, God strike me dead if I don't work harder than you.

Nobody is more heavily invested as an individual podcaster than Barefoot Radio. I'm shooting for the stars above and beyond and your childlike jealousy and criticism can go to hell.

I know there are hard workers in podcasting, it was an expression that you take literally because you're an idiot. You take it so personally and literally and that shows you are the ***. You're stretching because you don't like me, but please do it because you look silly.

[Barefoot Radio.com]

Yes, I love it when people can see through my bullshit and talk seriously. I'd love to know people's real take on podcasting as a business.

If SFley could get off his high horse for a second, I DO in fact care about business more than arguing with some guy who misinterprets me as a human being.

I did not start this thread to argue or be insluted.

And it's true, SFley, you've been no less an arrogant *** in these forums. Pony up and admit it, or shut your trap.

[Barefoot Radio.com]

The fact you'd rather argue with me, instead of being curious about what's in my mind with regard to podcasting, is really ironic.

Why don't you care more about talking podcasting than going after me as a person?

Sorry I called you an idiot, but you're annoying me. (this is not a sarcastic sorry, I mean it)

[monkey_one]

This is for everybody who has contributed to this thread
WA WA WA
(no im not a hack but yes I stole this comedic comment from Artie Lang)

[Barefoot Radio.com]

I second that Monkey One. Even though I'm all "wa wa wa" too.

Artie Lange is a prince among men.

http://www.artie-lange.com/artie_content.html

[monkey_one]

The way he is going Paul he is going to be twin princess among men.

[monkey_one]

As King Solomen has said in the good book " There is nothing new under the sun" alot of what we call entertainment has been regurgated in one fashion or another through out the agess just like the prime plots that make up a storie

I Think all of us has an Ego or Ego and or Pride ....some type of Self importance and we want some type of accedptance buy our fans and our peers ....this is a common trate of entertaineers ...artists and creative people in general who put there stuff out in the puplic eye..
I think one of the best assets for someone who is of this persuasion to be sucseffull with themselfs
is to not take themselfs to seriously and to be able to laugh at themselfs ....and sorry Steve for the
grammer and spelling errors :wink:

[evilproducer]

....and sorry Steve for the
grammer and spelling errors :wink:

You should be. But what can you expect from a monkey. I'm just glad you didn't act like the rest of us apes and start flinging poo. :wink:

Later,
Evil.

[evilproducer]

But where did we apes get the bullshit to fling....?

Responding to oneself is like masturbating without the enjoyment... D'oh! :roll:

Later,
Evil.

[monkey_one]

confusious say: Tring to push other peoples buttons is a good indignation that you have a hard time pushing your own

[evilproducer]

confusious say: Tring to push other peoples buttons is a good indignation that you have a hard time pushing your own

**** straight...ummm. Hey, wait a minute.....?

Stupid monkey! :wink:

[evilproducer]

I thought Confucious Say, "patience is a virtue best learned rapidly."

[ElNacho]

yeah! monkey's back!

[monkey_one]

yeah! monkey's back!
WOW el Nacho , thank you....your glad to see me?

[SFEley]

I work harder than you, SFley. I have to succeed, therefore, I work harder.
You have no idea if that's true, Paul. I don't know either, and I'm not going to make assumptions.

I quit my day job in May, and became the sole employee of my S corporation, Escape Artists, Incorporated. I currently make a pretty good living developing podcast-related products and services. I'm not getting rich, but I'm keeping the mortgage paid and my wife and child aren't starving. Escape Pod brings in about $1000 a month in revenue from donations, and spends about half that on content, but I don't take any profits out; I'm keeping it in the podcast, paying for marketing and the other team members who help me with editorial tasks and business development. It still keeps me up all night, even though I'm working from home, so at least one of my "Manage my own time" goals hasn't succeeded yet. But at least I no longer have to deal with commuting or wearing a suit.

Perhaps this is all true for you, too. Do I work harder than you? I have no idea and I don't care. I'm not going to compare business plans or penis sizes with you. I work pretty hard. I'm satisfied with that. (And if anyone was wondering why I've barely posted in the past month, well, now you know.)

Do you know the difference between ego and arrogance? I think you should understand this. Ego is saying "I'm really, really good." Ego is positive. I respect ego. I have ego. Ego gets things done. I think a little ego is essential for everyone who wants to succeed in a creative enterprise.

Arrogance is saying "I'm better than you." Particularly when you just don't have the information about others to make that statement. And if this is important to you, as opposed to simply being really good and achieving your own goals, then your priorities are far out of line.

Finally, anyone who thinks that I'm not interested in discussing actual podcasting issues is invited to view my posting history. I'm not going to play that game either.

I'm done on this subject. I can tell I pushed your buttons, Paul, as you had to make three posts in a row to rail at me. Rest assured that it isn't mutual. You're annoying, but you're not upsetting. I do wish you'd get over yourself, but I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

And I still wish you the best of success.

[monkey_one]

I Live on the Left coast and I turned on the howard stern show on sirius satalite radio at about 4:30 am (the east coast feed) like I usaully do on the week days to passivly listen to the show as I waft in and out of consiousness before I wake up to go to work
Well today Stern and crew were talking about what happend at thiere special screening of Superman they went to I think last night....I lisned to it when I was sleeping because I dreamed while they were discussing the screening that I was there at there preemier with Howard Robin Fred and company watching the movie with them and let me tell you it kicks ***
execpt there obscent talking about all the problems with the people around them was interfering with my ability to watch the movie
Especially Howard he would not shut up I had to tell him to zip it several times
listning to a talk show while you sleep and dream adds a layer of entertainment unsurpassed
I think I am goint to patented it

[Barefoot Radio.com]

I didn't say I'm better than you.

I said that I work harder than you. I work harder than you, and I work harder than you because I work harder than you because I spend more time working on working harder than you work.

I do more than you before 9am plus the entire US military during wartime, as well as more time than you and you because you work less than me and I do more work than you. I do more work than everyone put together at Microsoft because I use an Apple computer. I also work full time as a garbage collector so that I can say more and more that I work more than you. I work more than your entire family between the beginning and ending of your bowel movements. You SFley and your extended family of couch potatos do less serious stuff than me in every moment of every breath. Just kidding about your extended family. Don't take it personally, but I work more than you in a moment of picking my nose than you do all day every day, after the sum of all your days and life multiplied by ten thousand billion.

As a corpse I'd be working more than you, and everyone in the entire world all combined, plus everyone who died before us, plus everyone who will ever live. I've already done more work as an individual than every person that ever existed, exists, and will exist. Yes.

MMMMMmmmmm....I want to be a princess among men. Yes!

SLFEY Algebra: Lesson One
X=Amount of work SFLEY does
PHWP=Amount of work Paul does (Paul Hardest Working Podcaster)

10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000X=PWHP
This is the algebraic equasion that shows everyone I work harder than SFLEY. I do. I do I do because I do. This math is endorsed by the usa drag queen math association. Or rather, the USADQMA!!!!

[monkey_one]

I think I'll call it dreamcasting

[SFEley]

MMMMMmmmmm....I want to be a princess among men. Yes!

"Ray has gone bye-bye, Egon... What've you got left?"

[monkey_one]

with a little saline or silcone I could have twin peaks would it er rase ur head or would you prefer to lynch me .....abstractly speaking of course

[monkey_one]

oh sorry Steve you were speaking to paul not me sorry and Im doubly sorry fer the
double post tandra ebvil

[mental-escher]

X=Amount of work SFLEY does
PHWP=Amount of work Paul does (Paul Hardest Working Podcaster)

10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000X=PWHP

Sounds like the same math that sold your old man on a 40K investment in your "professional" podcast studio even though it's a bit like buying a Lexus with no engine.

If you can't act like a professional (you know who you are... Paul), don't call yourself one. This thread should be a great opportunity for you to pimp the living **** out of your as yet non-profitable BFRpodcast.com. Instead, it is a classic example of a blown opportunity... Launching and responding to personal attacks is a waste of time (unless you're a troll, then it's just good fun :twisted: ).

I hope you succeed- that would be cool if you did. But your talk sounds a bit shrill, especially the hard work bs. Have YOU ever been in a band? Playing bars is no picnic, and that is some HARD fuking work indeed (practice, setups, tear downs, and playing to drunks till two in the morning).

Having fun and doing what you love and being good AND getting lucky are all components of artistic success.

For BFR at this point, itz gunna take a whole lot more than "hard work" and fuzzy math to recoup both investment and "overhead" (but maybe you live at home and at least RnB overhead is free?).

Responding to oneself is like masturbating without the enjoyment... D'oh!

hardy har lol :lol: That posting jerk fest was pretty lame.

[evilproducer]

hardy har lol :lol: That posting jerk fest was pretty lame.

Maybe that's why my hand went numb.... :wink:

[Barefoot Radio.com]

mental-escher, you might enjoy the meetings we have these days.

We are having very neat war room sessions for the show. Lots of neat stuff for podcasters. While you paint a bleak picture, we're actually getting together in groups and talking about the steps each of us is taking. You also think about what I'm doing solely in terms of podcasting. That's a mistake. We're not just podcasting. We're part of internet radio as a whole. If you limit yourself to podcasting you're selling yourself short professionally. I've learned from people taking good steps to make it how to approach everything differently. I'm thinking in a bigger framework than podcasting alone, or JUST the internet for that matter.

In some ways my perspective about having days where my show is on the regular airwaves has changed. I see things totally differently, and I'm very exited about it. I'm not just limited to podcasting.

You're also totally uninformed about the part of town we're in. Santa Fe is the coolest place Barefoot Radio could be right now. The culture down here is buzzing bigtime. Part of being HERE in the art district was a calculated move to be around talent and in a very vibrant part of town. Part of being here is MARKETING in and of itself. I bet you a million dollars imporant people are going to walk right into my door on First Fridays. This prospect is thrilling to me.

Grand Opening on Santa Fe is Friday July 7th. Y'all ought to tune in.

SFley, I was just working harder than you when I was practicing guitar and I laughed and stopped playing guitar, and then for just one moment I was more lazy than you rather than working harder than you which I do 99.9999% of the time. I wonder when that .0001% will happen again. I dread it.

Rome wasn't built in a day.

... and I don't do fuzzy math.

[WyethDigital]

hardy har lol :lol: That posting jerk fest was pretty lame.

Maybe that's why my hand went numb.... :wink:
I hear it wouldn't be the first time!

Serisouly, I thought about getting in on this conversation before, but then I thought, what the hell, I'll see how it goes. Kinda went the way I thought it would :?

So to slide things back on topic, and hopefully get things a little less personal, I have to say that the article has errors in it, as already pointed out by SFEley, and a couple of others. Not to disagree with my esteemed brother (Evil), but if any investor considered this a decent discussion on the merits of investing in a podcast, then that investor is going to walk away aggregiously misinformed.

I might agree with Evil if they had just left the hobbyists opinion as that of a hobbyist, but they also mention that he's the head of some podcaster's group. So which is he? An expert or a hobbyist? The author can't seem to decide.

One thing that everyone seems to be missing -- from the author of the piece, to the hobbyist trying to get his brother a gig, to the people on this board -- is that the hobbyist's podcast is the marketing tool. He said it himself. It's to get his actor brother exposure in order to get him a job. But this little point is jumped over so fast in order to get to the more traditional problems of monetizing a podcast that it's almost completely lost. Selling ads isn't the only way to monetize a podcast. Neither is selling T-shirts.

The number of podcasts out there is daunting, when looked at in terms of making a profit, but it's not impossible. It will take hard work and lots of creativity, and I believe, a multi pronged initiative to achieve success... but it can be done!

And yes, it is our duty as podcasters to be optimistic and creative about it when discussing this with the press. Not because we want to drive up our ad rates, but because this medium is a hybrid of traditional media (the content) and new ideas (delivery, demographics, niche marketing,). We need to start looking at it as a convergence medium. Too many people scorn radio and TV, but they aren't going away any time soon. Yes, they're evolving, and they're hurting, but they are here to stay. We need to find a way to help them, not kill them. Video on Demand is a great example. We've been invited to show our podcast on a VOD channel in a major TV market (more to come on this somewhere else at another time). Should we turn our noses up at the offer because it's too much like traditional media? I don't think so, and we're not going to! These are the kinds of ideas we need to bring to the table when we're talking to the press. Broad ideas, creative ideas.


Eric

[WyethDigital]

You also think about what I'm doing solely in terms of podcasting. That's a mistake. We're not just podcasting. We're part of internet radio as a whole. If you limit yourself to podcasting you're selling yourself short professionally. I've learned from people taking good steps to make it how to approach everything differently. I'm thinking in a bigger framework than podcasting alone, or JUST the internet for that matter.

In some ways my perspective about having days where my show is on the regular airwaves has changed. I see things totally differently, and I'm very exited about it. I'm not just limited to podcasting.
Wow, Paul, we're pretty close together on this one! Do I feel an unlikely love fest coming on :)

Eric

[evilproducer]

I never meant to imply that the article was worthy of being turned into a pospectus. My point was, and still is that it is not intended to be an entertainment section fluff piece that gushes over everything podcast. The inclusion of naysayers, misinformed though they maybe is not a slight. It's trying to balance the article.

Another point I was trying to make was that lambasting someone because you feel they aren't jerking off to podcasts in front of the press is a mistake. Being a Pollyanna will show through to anybody reading the article. I said before that none of the podcasters interviewed talked about quitting, but some expressed serious reservations about the financials. And yet they keep plugging away. I certainly wouldn't call that a negative.

I thought about pointing out that not all returns are monetary, and that pimping his brother is a form of return on the investment. Ala "Marketing." So yes, I did get the point.

Later,
Evil.

[WyethDigital]

I never meant to imply that the article was worthy of being turned into a pospectus. My point was, and still is that it is not intended to be an entertainment section fluff piece that gushes over everything podcast. The inclusion of naysayers, misinformed though they maybe is not a slight. It's trying to balance the article.

Another point I was trying to make was that lambasting someone because you feel they aren't jerking off to podcasts in front of the press is a mistake. Being a Pollyanna will show through to anybody reading the article. I said before that none of the podcasters interviewed talked about quitting, but some expressed serious reservations about the financials. And yet they keep plugging away. I certainly wouldn't call that a negative.
I'm not disagreeing with you on the point about honesty, or even that the story should be balanced. It should be. But the author of the piece clearly did a sloppy job. I also would expect that the head of a podcdaster's group, local though it is, would have a better grasp of the "big picture," and should have conveyed that as well as the concerns he has. Of course, maybe he did, and the author just did a hatchet job.

Eric

[evilproducer]

The author may have done a hatchet job, but the editors can also hack a story to shreds and subsequently destroy context with little or no input from the author. You should ask Mom about her time at the paper and what her last editor was like. She's told me a couple of goooood stories....

Later,
Evil.

[evilproducer]

Monkey-One I gotta ask because it's weirding me out... WTF is that goddam cow thing on the banner in your sig??? :shock: The "face" looks somewhat familiar but it's cut off so I can't say for sure.

Later,
Evil.

[WyethDigital]

The author may have done a hatchet job, but the editors can also hack a story to shreds and subsequently destroy context with little or no input from the author. You should ask Mom about her time at the paper and what her last editor was like. She's told me a couple of goooood stories....

Later,
Evil.
This is true. Whether it was the editor or the author, the story was fairly flawed. I think it will continue to feed the misconceptions out there. And I don't mean to imply the whole story was negative.... but the part that was bugged me for it's lack of accuracy in attempting balance. As an FYI -- I heard Rocketboom made something like $40,00 for their week of ATM ads. Not $15,000.


Eric

[WyethDigital]

Monkey-One I gotta ask because it's weirding me out... WTF is that goddam cow thing on the banner in your sig??? :shock: The "face" looks somewhat familiar but it's cut off so I can't say for sure.

Later,
Evil.
That's the distorted face of our Liar-In-Chief.

Eric

[Barefoot Radio.com]

Yes, the Rocketboom number was way off. I noticed that too.

WyethDigital with the interesting perspective! Booyeah!

[SFEley]

One thing that everyone seems to be missing -- from the author of the piece, to the hobbyist trying to get his brother a gig, to the people on this board -- is that the hobbyist's podcast is the marketing tool. He said it himself. It's to get his actor brother exposure in order to get him a job. But this little point is jumped over so fast in order to get to the more traditional problems of monetizing a podcast that it's almost completely lost. Selling ads isn't the only way to monetize a podcast. Neither is selling T-shirts.

This is an excellent point. Sometimes the purpose isn't to make money from the podcast itself, but to use the podcast to sell your other work. Authors podcast their stories or novels to sell their books. Experts in a field may do a podcast to sell their expertise. And one of my favorite examples is one I found from the Alley -- the Sex is Fun (http://www.greatsexgames.com/podcast/) podcast, which is produced by a company that makes sex games. The podcast is never about the games, but it certainly can't hurt sales for their listeners to know who's behind it.

Not everybody has a separate product to sell, of course. But if you don't, you still have your podcasting expertise. And if you don't have that, you still have yourself. The software development gig that provides most of my current income is one that I got because the company's owner was a fan of Escape Pod.

[evilproducer]

Now I see it! (The image of Shrub the cow..)

Christ! Following two threads simultaneously is giving me a headache. I hardly have time to jerk off to Paris Hilton and her paint chips. (http://www.podcastalley.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=60435#60435)

Later,
Evil.

[SFEley]

This is true. Whether it was the editor or the author, the story was fairly flawed. I think it will continue to feed the misconceptions out there. And I don't mean to imply the whole story was negative.... but the part that was bugged me for it's lack of accuracy in attempting balance. As an FYI -- I heard Rocketboom made something like $40,00 for their week of ATM ads. Not $15,000.

That's correct. It was exactly $40,000 -- it was an EBay auction, so the amount was public knowledge. And they immediately did a second run of ads with Earthlink for what they said was a similar price, although that one wasn't through EBay.

[WyethDigital]

And one of my favorite examples is one I found from the Alley -- the Sex is Fun podcast, which is produced by a company that makes sex games. The podcast is never about the games, but it certainly can't hurt sales for their listeners to know who's behind it.

Not everybody has a separate product to sell, of course. But if you don't, you still have your podcasting expertise. And if you don't have that, you still have yourself. The software development gig that provides most of my current income is one that I got because the company's owner was a fan of Escape Pod.
Exactly. Eventually, I would love to shop around my video services to companies in the area and get them to use podcasting as a tool. Whether it be training, or marketing, or something else entirely, the podcast doesn't have to be the target your marketing, it can be the tool of it.

Evil does make some good points about being overly enthusiastic about podcasting as well, and I wanted to mention that going the other way is almost as detrimental as being too negative. There was an article in the paper here a few weeks back talking about podcasting, and they highlighted a local company called Sub-Zero, because they were repurposing their old infomercials as podcasts. Now, I like this idea, since you can make use of content you already have and get some added value out of it, but Sub-Zero was wayyyy off on thier numbers, claiming 700,000 subscribers in two weeks (according to the marketing dept, which the company's podcast producer was quoting). It was either a really bad session of "telephone," a massive misquote, or a bald faced lie. In any event, it only served to embarrass the company (and by extension, the medium) when the reporter asked a communications professor about podcasting (not the specific Sub Zero numbers, but podcasting's numbers in general, which naturally didn't jibe). We just gotta be on our toes.

Eric

[evilproducer]

So to play devil's advocate a little longer:
Paul, were you taken out of context in the article? How in depth was the interview? Did the reporter seem knowledgeable about Podcasting when she was talking to you?

Kinda' curious.

Later,
Evil.

[Barefoot Radio.com]

The reporter doesn't know much about podcasting beyond writing this article. The interview covered many points. I was amazed to see he painted me clueless because we talked about many different ways one could grow and monetize.

I was completely misquoted twice. And even though the misquotes are not harmful, it made me uneasy how things could be put in my mouth that I NEVER said. It makes be believe that the media could spin anything anyway they want on someone, even if it's not true.

[monkey_one]

Monkey-One I gotta ask because it's weirding me out... WTF is that goddam cow thing on the banner in your sig??? :shock: The "face" looks somewhat familiar but it's cut off so I can't say for sure.

Later,
Evil.
That's the distorted face of our Liar-In-Chief.

Eric

ding ding ding.....Eric wins the prize

[WyethDigital]

ding ding ding.....Eric wins the prize
Sweeeet! What do I win? It's a banana, right? I know, I know. Don't get my hopes up... But c'mon, you're a monkey!

Hmm... Well technically, you aren't a monkey. You're an ape. There's a difference. I don't remember what. Something about the teeth being different. No... That's alligators and crocadiles. Hmmm.

Why can't I classify you, you ****. Dirty. Ape!

Eric

[monkey_one]

ding ding ding.....Eric wins the prize
Sweeeet! What do I win? It's a banana, right? I know, I know. Don't get my hopes up... But c'mon, you're a monkey!

Hmm... Well technically, you aren't a monkey. You're an ape. There's a difference. I don't remember what. Something about the teeth being different. No... That's alligators and crocadiles. Hmmm.

Why can't I classify you, you d*mn. Dirty. Ape!

Eric

1. yes you won a big bannana

2. what a few ... jeans ...genes ... whatever among primates

and last but not least
3. dont stress trying to classafy good ol Uncle Monkey Eric
cuz I aint got no class aiewt

[evilproducer]

ding ding ding.....Eric wins the prize
Sweeeet! What do I win? It's a banana, right? I know, I know. Don't get my hopes up... But c'mon, you're a monkey!

Hmm... Well technically, you aren't a monkey. You're an ape. There's a difference. I don't remember what. Something about the teeth being different. No... That's alligators and crocadiles. Hmmm.

Why can't I classify you, you d*mn. Dirty. Ape!

Eric

1. yes you won a big bannana

2. what a few ... jeans ...genes ... whatever among primates

and last but not least
3. dont stress trying to classafy good ol Uncle Monkey Eric
cuz I aint got no class aiewt

And apparently you just learned how to type... :P

[monkey_one]

hey Evil,
When God was handing out faromones
you said no thanks King Tut already gave me some
Wow um yea :wink:

[evilproducer]

hey Evil,
When God was handing out faromones
you said no thanks King Tut already gave me some
Wow um yea :wink:

Oh yeah, monkey? You so ugly when you was born, yo' momma had to remember no to flush... 'cause um well you know..... you ugly and ****... :P

[monkey_one]

hey Evil,
When God was handing out faromones
you said no thanks King Tut already gave me some
Wow um yea :wink:

Oh yeah, monkey? You so ugly when you was born, yo' momma had to remember no to flush... 'cause um well you know..... you ugly and sh*t... :P

Now Evil you know what they say
beuty is in the eyes of the beholder
well thats what I told your mama before putiing the paper bag back over her head.....Son

[evilproducer]

Well Dad, now I know why I have bad teeth and play the banjo..... :shock:

[evilproducer]

Whups! I gotta go and finish making lunch, go to work etc. I'll have tpo continue this debate later. :wink:

Bring it ON

Later,
Evil.

[monkey_one]

Well Dad, now I know why I have bad teeth and play the banjo..... :shock:

eggsaclay

[WyethDigital]

Well, I wouldn't call this discussion proof of Intelligent Design by any stretch of the imagination! ;)

Eric

[mental-escher]

mental-escher, you might enjoy the meetings we have these days.

We are having very neat war room sessions for the show. Lots of neat stuff for podcasters. While you paint a bleak picture, we're actually getting together in groups and talking about the steps each of us is taking.

er... I bet it's around 12 steps...

You also think about what I'm doing solely in terms of podcasting. That's a mistake. We're not just podcasting. We're part of internet radio as a whole. If you limit yourself to podcasting you're selling yourself short professionally. I've learned from people taking good steps to make it how to approach everything differently. I'm thinking in a bigger framework than podcasting alone, or JUST the internet for that matter.

Well, since you missed it the first time, let me break it down for you baby! ... (imagine the funk-o-delic wah wah guitar riffing)... what I said before was:
...other have succeeded when they had an actual product (he used an internet game company as example) and/or by focusing on cheap eyecandy-making technology rather than expensive (relative to income) equipment.

That is to say- profitable podcasting is just another media port to be expoited to sell product (The podcast is NOT the product, it is just another vehicle for advertising/marketing tangible product).

For those of us who would rather have profit follow, rather than drive, their motivation to use create audio and video "podcasts": I think that for non-corporate podcasts to actually make money, you'd better have something people want (good music, fiction, commentary, humor, etc.) at price they are willing to pay (free).


Ahhh... shamless post whoring :twisted:

[palisade14]

I guess my late participation here shows you how little a person needs to be plugged in in order run a local podcasting group. MeetUp.com's only requirement was that I have $9/month to create a place to gather online.

It's hard to tell from the thread whether or not I am considered by this post the pessimistic guy or if the author is instead. I certainly didn't paint a rosey picture of monetization, but thats because I don't think there is one.

I think anyone and their dog can have a podcast--I think most of them are better than mine. I think that Darwinism is alive and well amongst those podcasts out there. Only the strong will survive. Only the best of those will make money.

The strong ones make money in one way or another: adsense, tshirts, donations, whatever. Those few will also be successfully recruited by corporations with money to hand out for in-house, professional, or character podcasts promoting products and services that already exist or embelishing existing modes of communication. Or those few will use their expanding resumes to seek out work in this field and get it. Money will not drop in anyone's lap.

As for me being a hobbyist, I don't recall using those words to describe myself to the journalist, but I suppose they apply just fine. I am. I have some AdSense links out there, but who doesn't. FWIW I have yet to see my initial $100 from Google.

I put as little effort into what I do as possible because I can get away with it and I enjoy it at that mild level of devotion. It seems that this attitude bothers some of you--sorry. But on the other end of the spectrum, plenty of you choked on the $40k number that Paul tossed out there. While that's a level setting number on its on, I can assure you that's nothing compared to his sweat equity and his commitment to excellence. And I fully expect he will be successful in ways that I neither can, nor dream to be. As will many of you others investing more than me, but less than him.

Because the author and editors of the article rightfully get to apply their own thinking and spin to the content, I personally think that my one glaring quote ("A number of people are looking for ways to 'monetize' podcasting, I'm not against it, but it seems unlikely. There's so much you can get for free anyway.") is used in a manner less fitting with my intent. If it helps to clarify where that opinion comes from, I can tell you that every single person that I have had ask me about monetization of podcasts did not have a podcast. And that everyone I know making money in podcasting does have a podcast. I didn't intend to convey that you can't or even shouldn't make money only that I didn't see it as likely for everyone--even the good ones.

I don't think that 'how can I make money podcasting' is the first question one should ask themselves when starting a podcast. I don't think it's how any of the promonent podcasters began (was it?).


The way I see it, this is a goldrush town. There are no famous miners only mining companies.

[palisade14]

FWIW I said $40k not $14 in reference to Rocketboom.

Speaking of which, WTF?

[WyethDigital]

First off, nice to have you as part of the conversation. It's good to get your perspective.
It's hard to tell from the thread whether or not I am considered by this post the pessimistic guy or if the author is instead. I certainly didn't paint a rosey picture of monetization, but thats because I don't think there is one.
You're the guy the article portrayed as pessimistic, yes :)

I think anyone and their dog can have a podcast--I think most of them are better than mine. I think that Darwinism is alive and well amongst those podcasts out there. Only the strong will survive. Only the best of those will make money.

The strong ones make money in one way or another: adsense, tshirts, donations, whatever. Those few will also be successfully recruited by corporations with money to hand out for in-house, professional, or character podcasts promoting products and services that already exist or embelishing existing modes of communication. Or those few will use their expanding resumes to seek out work in this field and get it. Money will not drop in anyone's lap.
Yes, everyone and his dog can have a podcast. No arguments there. But not everyone and their dog can do a good podcast. Just like not everyone and their dog can write a decent blog, design a good website or cure cancer. And that's fine, since podcasting is not just about entertaining, it's also about communicating. These podcasts should not expect to make money, and they often don't.

Sticking Adsense boxes on your site is something you do when you you don't think you're going to be worth any more than 4% of your effort. No offense intended. We're trying our hand at Amazon, and beginning to think the same thing about them. So I disagree with you that "strong" podcasts can do this to make money (maybe as a way to get a few bucks every six months). But this should not be considered a major part of your business plan.

I put as little effort into what I do as possible because I can get away with it and I enjoy it at that mild level of devotion. It seems that this attitude bothers some of you--sorry. But on the other end of the spectrum, plenty of you choked on the $40k number that Paul tossed out there. While that's a level setting number on its on, I can assure you that's nothing compared to his sweat equity and his commitment to excellence. And I fully expect he will be successful in ways that I neither can, nor dream to be. As will many of you others investing more than me, but less than him.
I don't have a problem with you putting whatever effort you want into your podcast -- after all, it is your podcast! Where I have a problem is that somehow this journalist (or his editors) decided that someone who has expressed little interest or desire to earn money at podcasting should be used as a defacto analyst for their article. Let me draw an analogy: If I like to watch people climb mountains, but have no desire to do it myself, why should I be considered an expert on mountain climbing? Don't get me wrong, an outside observation or three can be helpful in getting the big picture, but I personally think they gave too much weight to your opinions (as someone who invests a minimal amount of effort) and downplayed Paul's. But this a complaint about the article and how they used you in it, and not with what you said (per se).

I don't think that 'how can I make money podcasting' is the first question one should ask themselves when starting a podcast. I don't think it's how any of the promonent podcasters began (was it?).
I think you're wrong here. I think some podcasters fell into success accidently, and others engineered it from the beginning (Adam Curry, for one). If you seriously intend to either fully support your hobby, or to make a profit as a business, asking "how can I make money" should be right at the top of the list! And sitting right beside it, should be the question, "how can I make the best product possible in order to make that money?"

Eric

[SFEley]

I think you're wrong here. I think some podcasters fell into success accidently, and others engineered it from the beginning (Adam Curry, for one). If you seriously intend to either fully support your hobby, or to make a profit as a business, asking "how can I make money" should be right at the top of the list! And sitting right beside it, should be the question, "how can I make the best product possible in order to make that money?"
There are podcasters who manage to make money from podcasting. I'm one of them. However, I think having money as a motivation for podcasting is a very poor idea. The returns compared to both the risk and the work involved are terrible. There are much more profitable hobbies. As I said at a recent science fiction convention, "It's slightly dumber than writing short stories for the money."

If you're going to succeed with your podcast, you have to first be willing to podcast without making any money from it, for as long as you can, for the love of it. If you put your passion into it and you create something other people can be passionate about as well, then maybe -- maybe -- you will eventually get some financial good out of it. It won't be enough to compensate you for all that you put in. That's why the love has to be there first.

[Barefoot Radio.com]

If you're going to succeed with your podcast, you have to first be willing to podcast without making any money from it, for as long as you can, for the love of it. If you put your passion into it and you create something other people can be passionate about as well, then maybe -- maybe -- you will eventually get some financial good out of it. It won't be enough to compensate you for all that you put in. That's why the love has to be there first.

Yesssssssss!

I agree with you.

[palisade14]

If you're going to succeed with your podcast, you have to first be willing to podcast without making any money from it, for as long as you can, for the love of it. If you put your passion into it and you create something other people can be passionate about as well, then maybe -- maybe -- you will eventually get some financial good out of it. It won't be enough to compensate you for all that you put in. That's why the love has to be there first.

I agree as well and said as much to the journalist.

[WyethDigital]

If you're going to succeed with your podcast, you have to first be willing to podcast without making any money from it, for as long as you can, for the love of it. If you put your passion into it and you create something other people can be passionate about as well, then maybe -- maybe -- you will eventually get some financial good out of it. It won't be enough to compensate you for all that you put in. That's why the love has to be there first.
Absolutely you have to be willing to do it for the love of it. Why else do it? Why else do anything?

We'll see if you're right about not getting out of it what you put into it. I tend to disagree with you on this point. If all you're putting out there is some Adsense ads, selling a few banner spots, sell a dozen T-shirts, and maybe even getting a paid spot or two on your show, then you're right. You won't break even.

Actually, as I type this, I've changed my mind somewhat. I'll agree to a point. You probably won't make money off the podcast alone. You have to be able to take what you do with your podcast and expand the brand -- Take your ideas, your theme, your knowledge and convert that into opportunities around your podcast. Case in point, a company is interested in some of the things we're doing on our podcast. Up until this point they've handled work like ours in-house, but are interested in our approach. I can't go into too many details yet, since we're just barely into discussions, but it does hold some decent monetizing potential. And I can see other oppotunities waiting for development.

Eric

[Barefoot Radio.com]

Not to sound overly optimistic, but we're in a commercial space now and it brings lots of potential to make money and market in more ways than one. The next calendar year we will roll out many new additions to the space that will hopefully help us monetize. The more successful Barefoot Radio is on Santa Fe, the more successful Santa Fe will be.

All the naysayers don't get that it's a production space. If someone in Denver wants to make a podcast and has no clue about how to do it, well, hello, I'm Paul Saurini from Barefoot Radio, the most significant podcast in Denver.

We've brainstormed some great ideas about how to make money on "First Fridays." As well, I'm collecting emails, handing out flyers, and every month this concept is going to develop into something more.

The "Grand Opening" show is tomorrow night. Hope y'all will tune in. I'll post a reminder here.

You should see my neighbor, xanthia. She's a freakin' promotion queen. Oh yeah. What a perfect match.

I have guns and roses song 'one in a million' ringing in my head.

[metatron]

Barefoot Radio sucks, so anything could help. Try hanging yourself, I think that would bring vast improvements to the show.

[WyethDigital]

Barefoot Radio sucks, so anything could help. Try hanging yourself, I think that would bring vast improvements to the show.
I sense a new dumb-slinger in town... er... I mean "gunslinger." Yeah. That's what I meant... :roll:

Hey, 'Tron, wanna at least try and keep on topic? I know, I know, it doesn't happen much around here, but this thread is doing a fairly respectable job of it this time around.

Eric

[evilproducer]

Here we go again! :roll:

monkey_one, get ready for the poo flinging!

[metatron]

I just don’t like the Crypt Keeper, anyway if he wants to succeed, in the sense of making some money from his show he should put a survey together and get a hundred or so listeners to take part, then he will have an idea of his target audience and he will have something to present to advertisers and sponsors, along with his listener figures.

[SFEley]

I just don’t like the Crypt Keeper, anyway if he wants to succeed, in the sense of making some money from his show he should put a survey together and get a hundred or so listeners to take part, then he will have an idea of his target audience and he will have something to present to advertisers and sponsors, along with his listener figures.
He's done that. That's on record. Yeesh -- everyone has done that. I don't find Paul's show to my tastes either, but I'll give him credit for having more clues than this on execution.

You're just here to be a smellfungus, aren't you?

[metatron]

I just don’t like the Crypt Keeper, anyway if he wants to succeed, in the sense of making some money from his show he should put a survey together and get a hundred or so listeners to take part, then he will have an idea of his target audience and he will have something to present to advertisers and sponsors, along with his listener figures.
He's done that. That's on record. Yeesh -- everyone has done that. I don't find Paul's show to my tastes either, but I'll give him credit for having more clues than this on execution.

You're just here to be a smellfungus, aren't you?

Indeed, I love misery and sharing it with others

[WyethDigital]

You're just here to be a smellfungus, aren't you?
Smellfungus. Good word!

Eric