How many listeners until you can quit your day job?

[Soccer Shout]

(This is a repost from the Britcaster forum)

A somewhat fanciful discussion, but we can dream...

Have you calculated how many listeners you would need to pack in your day job and earn a living from podcasting alone?

I have figure of 20,000 in my head. And that would be 20k PER DAY, as we put out a daily cast. So 100K per week.

I think you could pull in some serious wedge with that listener base and frequency.

What do you reckon?

[ferg]

Hmmm....I dunno. We do our show only weekly (and sometimes not even that frequently). I do know that I would not even BEGIN to go after any money unless I had 10,000 listeners, and I'm fairly certain I couldn't quit my dayjob with 20,000.

I guess the number in my head is 100,000 listeners.

uh...not likely to happen any time soon.

[fogarty]

Depends on what you think you can charge, and what you need to live.

$40 per 1000 listens is a number I heard somewhere as typical. So if that is correct (and please you'll tell me if it's not), then you would earn $4000 for every 100,000 listeners. I could certainly live on that!

I'm going to assume that you have to have a minimum number of listeners to attract a "quality" advertiser. So then if that number is 10,000, and you release a show weekly, and you use the $40/1000 number...that would equal about $21K per year.

Hmmm...so I guess from a purely advertising-oriented perspective it would be better to put out a short daily show than a longer weekly show. (10,000 listeners a day would equal about $146K per year, using the $40/1000 rate.)

Mignon

[EclecticMix]

I think that there are a lot of variables here. One would be how much money you need - certainly more if you live in New York City than if you're in West Virginia.

Also, I would think less in terms of listeners and more in terms of sustaining advertisers. You'll be spending a fair amount of time trying to get advertising, so if you're doing a daily show (the only way I can envision this) then prepare to spend an hour or two each day in this persuit.

That said, I'd be hard-pressed to think it possible at all. I'm just guessing that Go Daddy isn't paying Adam Curry enough for me to live on.

Cheers -

george

[Soccer Shout]

My math goes like this:

I think in terms of 'thousands of ad impressions' or KAI. It's just a shorthand for what you have been talking about.

20K listeners * 2 ads per show * 5 days per week * 50 weeks =

10,000 KIA per year.

At $40 per KIA, that's $400,000.

Yes, that's a lot of money but there's two of us working on the show, and we both earn a nice amount of money right now and have families, etc, and it would be fairly fragile work, so it would need to be pretty compelling to give up the day job.

From an advertiser point-of-view, the rate of $40 per KIA would probably be quite attractive I would think, especially if Kiptronic get their act sorted out and start to deliver geographically-targetted ads. I would imagine the combination of a specific subject and a specific location would be supremely attractive, something that couldn't be replicated in magazines or most radio shows.

[ElNacho]

whats a kia?

[siriusfox]

whats a kia?KAI.
K = 1000
Thouand of Ad Impressions

If you look, you see...
I think in terms of 'thousands of ad impressions' or KAI. It's just a shorthand for what you have been talking about. :wink:

[ElNacho]

ah. i thought he meant, like, either thousands of add impressions, or KIA (killed in action, which doesnt really fit there)

[Soccer Shout]

Having read it back...that acronym is completely unnecessary. Sorry.

But still...am I the only one who thinks about this sh**?

[fogarty]

But still...am I the only one who thinks about this sh**?

No. I think about it! And like you, I have a co-host, so that cuts everything in half. We aren't planning on quitting our day jobs anytime soon. At least my co-host isn't. I don't have a formal day job.

I am a freelance writer (or actually, if you want to be technical about it, I own my own two-person corporate communications firm). So I am hopeful that someday advertising from our podcast will be an additional source of revenue. I won't be able to give up everything else that I do, but maybe I will be able to pick and choose among projects more.

I enjoy creating the podcast far more than I enjoy the other work that I do, so I'm definitely thinking about ways the podcast can make money so I can spend more time on it.

[WyethDigital]

Of course, looking at it in a KIA context is extremely relevant, and makes a lot of sense. But I don't think advertising is the only way to monetize a podcast. It may end up being the biggest part, but if you add in other revenue streams you can also make a healthy chunk off of them (provided you have the time and a bit of success). Of course, this all depends upon a large audience to make any serious money (and to be taken seriously).

Other options:
• Sell something. Whether it be your own thing, or someone elses, put something up for sale.
• Offer a service that your listeners would like or would be likely to use. Maybe a classifieds or consignment section on your website. Maybe a members-only section with premium content.
• Instead of just offering advertising, offer to endorse. Let's say you have a successful rock climbing podcast. Offer to endorse Company X's climbing gear.

Those are just a couple of ideas that I've had. Point is, too often podcasting tries to stucture itself exactly as a website or blog. How much money can you really make off of programs like Ad-Sense or the Amazon Affiliate Program (I can answer that last one -- for us, at this moment, not too **** much). But we're not. A website or blog is a bonus for us and our audience. We need a place to park our shows -- so we should make them great -- but they are still just icing on the cake. The show is what we want people to find.

Eric

[Thaed]

Never.

It's an all consuming hobby, but it's never going to be my job.

[TALK RADIO SHOW]

Ten gillian.

[TALK RADIO SHOW]

bajillian.

[ElNacho]

the president hears the latest casualty update of WWIII.
'Ten brazillian soldiers died today'
The president looks shocked and puts his head in his hands. 'oh, no!!'
"whats wrong, sir" the VP asks
"how...how many is ten brazillian?"

[cinesnob]

Nacho Man & I don't have day jobs to quit. He's still going to school and I'm retired.

[jeffoest]

Eric's point is a good I think. My hunch is that the best ways to make money on podcasting in the future will be to hook up with something else and create complementary businesses.

One thing that I think sometimes we forget is that your listeners don't really want ads in your show. Yea - they will tolerate to some extent - but it's hard to envision a successful 'business' based on forcing something on your customers that they would rather not have.

[WyethDigital]

One thing that I think sometimes we forget is that your listeners don't really want ads in your show. Yea - they will tolerate to some extent - but it's hard to envision a successful 'business' based on forcing something on your customers that they would rather not have.
Excellent point, Jeff! I've been working on some "product" placement schemes, which would be less intrusive (unless you're "Extreme Make-Over: Home Edition," in which case you're a one long informercial for Sears). Given the recent interest shown in us by a Video on Demand sevice, I might actually now have some teeth for my proposals. We'll see.

Good to see you back posting, Jeff!

Eric

[Soccer Shout]

One thing that I think sometimes we forget is that your listeners don't really want ads in your show. Yea - they will tolerate to some extent - but it's hard to envision a successful 'business' based on forcing something on your customers that they would rather not have.

Television? Radio? Google? Yahoo?

Even the HBO model of a tv channel is forcing the customer to do something they would rather not.

To this point, I've found the commercials in podcasting to be more sensitive to the listener (e.g. more focused on the subject, less abrasive in nature) than tv and radio is. I really don't mind them.

[Bucket]

Thanks... I thought it was just me. My automatic reaction to that post was: Ever watched television?

We're conditioned to accept advertising on TV, which we pay for. Why would we seriously rise up against it on podcasts that are free?

[Barefoot Radio.com]

There's nothing wrong with commercializing your podcast.

You have to AT least be in the 10K download range per show to even start thinking about sponsorship.

If people stop listening because of commercials, OH WELL. Just because there are commercials in something doesn't make all of it UNlistenable.

Good luck to REAL people making REAL progress in this. (not sarcastic)

[Barefoot Radio.com]

And 10K is hardly a stable base. It can dry up before you know it.

[jeffoest]

The only thing I'll add is that comparing TV to podcasting can be a bit misleading. Podcasting really is a 'long tail' experience.

Just a thought:

We got conditioned to commercials on TV since the early days when there was only three channels to watch. If you wanted to watch TV, you had to watch commercials. Even now, with many TV stations, the production is expensive and they need to recoup costs so the model has stuck to some extent.

But that's changing as TV becomes more on-demand.

And it certainly is not podcasting. Except for maybe 100-200 shows, podcasting is fairly cheap to produce and is mostly a hobby for people to express theri passions and knowledge. Maybe a podcast show can sustain some advertisting (especially the more 'sticky' ones), but when the barrier to entry for your competition is so small, I still stand behind my original statement: it's hard to envision a successful 'business' based on forcing something on your customers that they would rather not have.

I think that there is advertising money to be made in podcasting. But I don't think it will ultimately come from delivering ads to people that don't want them.

[ElNacho]

Podcasting really is a 'long tail' experience.

what? why are you comparing podcasting to sperm?

[WyethDigital]

Podcasting really is a 'long tail' experience.

what? why are you comparing podcasting to sperm?

"Podcasting: The Lil' Swimmers of New Media."


Eric

[AmericanCliche]

Yes, the barrier to entry is minimal, but because of that anyone can do it. That means that even if you have nothing to say and nothing compelling about your show, you can still start one. Does that mean that people are going to listen to it? No. The shows that have talent and build a sizeable audience are going to be able to commercialize their shows and they will maintain their listenership. Do you think people would all of sudden stop watching the Sopranos if HBO decided to add a 30 second commercial into it? People may not want the commercial there, but it's hardly going to kill the Sorpranos.

I think quality content in podcasting is the same way. If your show is good enough, then people will listen regardless.

-Scott

[ElNacho]

how bout ridiculour ad-placement? that hurt the sopranos