Recording Equipment Questions ...

[damon]

Hi,

I currently have a M-AUDIO Mobile Pre-Amp, a PowerMac G5, and both a Shure SM57 and SM58 dynamic microphone. I got them because I didn't know better at the time and that was what was recommended. Plus I didn't want to spend too much.

However, I get a lot of hissing (background noise) when I record with them; I have to turn the pre-amp up to at least 75% of full capacity and -- even without the microphones plugged in -- this creates a lot of hissing. The sound quality, however, is really good -- it's just the background noise that is obnoxious (though I stop hearing it after a bit).

Now: I am not sure if the problem is a crappy pre-amp, or crappy microphones, or both. The Shures, I am aware now, are more for recording live -- but my question is whether or not a condensor micorphone (the m-audio has phantom power) would solve the hissing/background noise problem by not requiring me to turn up the gain so high. Could I record at a lower gain and get loud recorded clear audio?

If not, would I be better suited to buy a different amp ? Like the Firebox ?

Just need some general help. Any suggestions (links, where to read up, etc) would be much, much appreciated.

Thanks.

Damon

[ferg]

It's definitely not the mics, unless there's something actually wrong with them. I've done a fair amount of recording with SM57s and SM58s both live and in the (home) studio. They're great mics, and, if anything, my experience podcasting has been they've been less prone to background noise than just about anything I've used, as they are both very directional.

If your Pre-Amp creates a lot of noise with both mics hooked up, that may be the problem. However, it could also be the firewire cable (is that what the mobile pre uses?). You may want to try switching it out or repositioning it (particularly if it crosses power cables) and see if that helps. You can also get some snap-on ferrite interference reducer thingy's (~$2 each). That helped in my case.

As for the condenser mics - I personally think they work better for podcasting and recording vocals in general, but they won't likely help their problem - in fact, they may make it worse. They, in my experience, tend to be more sensitve and less directional than the dynamic mics you're using, and, therefore, more likely to pickup other noises in the room.

I'm currently using a setup whereby I run condensers into a cheap berringer mixer, that then goes into an M-Audio Firewire Solo. With this setup, I get no detectable noise from the setup itself, though, if you turn the volume up, there is a very faint hum of my computer fans in the background (despite my best attempts to insulate it).

Hope this helps.
Ferg

[TINKOFF RADIO]

I went back to my SM58 after using an MXL condenser for a few months - especially for it's ability not to pick up ambient tones. I use the MobilePre USB from M-Audio and have pretty good sound - but I know for a fact this pre-amp chokes with 2 mics. I also use a PreSonus TubePre and a Comp16 Compressor to warm up the sound and push the signal. It's a great tone, without costing a fortune.

You can hear the result on my show BURNING TWENTY.

[Steve Pinder]

Is it a hiss or a humm,....if it is a humm, then it is a grounding issue.

Steve Pinder
www.karatekast.com

[damon]

It's more of a hiss than anything. I will try to pull it out and use a different cable and connect it to the font of the Mac without any interference tonight. Maybe it is just a cable problem -- basically, even without the mics hooked in, I get the hiss when I have the gain at 75%. And I need the gain at 75% to get enough input to record a vocal that can get up near where it will clip.

I have to run to work, but I will try seperating it tonight and just use one mic (maybe turn the other channel to 0%).

Let me give it a try. Thanks for all the feedback. I think the SM58 does a nice job too -- very good, quality, sound -- it's just the hissing. Maybe I will put together a quick demo tape so you can hear.

Damon

[Dr. Trey]

Just a little note about the 57's and 58's. These mics are dismissed much too quickly and much too often. If you say its only for live applications, I would then ask why it is that every pro studio has them?

As for your problem, I think as everyone else has said, there is no way the mics are the problem, especially if you're still getting the hiss when the mics aren't plugged in.

[X Pat Radio]

Just a little note about the 57's and 58's. These mics are dismissed much too quickly and much too often. If you say its only for live applications, I would then ask why it is that every pro studio has them?

As for your problem, I think as everyone else has said, there is no way the mics are the problem, especially if you're still getting the hiss when the mics aren't plugged in.

The 2 Mics on the Presidents podium are Shure SM57's

[SFEley]

I currently have a M-AUDIO Mobile Pre-Amp, a PowerMac G5, and both a Shure SM57 and SM58 dynamic microphone. I got them because I didn't know better at the time and that was what was recommended. Plus I didn't want to spend too much.

I know exactly what you're talking about. Replace the PowerMac with a Mac Mini and you just described my initial podcasting rig. And yes, I had the same problem. The issue is the MobilePre -- it's a fine A/D converter but the preamps are fairly cheap, and noisy with any sort of gain. And yes, you do have to turn the gain way up on an SM57 (or SM58, same mic) in order to get any signal. That's just the nature of a dynamic mic.

My solution was to put another preamp between the mic and the MobilePre. I got an ART Tube MP from EBay for $30, plugged the mic into that, then used an XLR-to-1/4" cable to plug into the line-in on the MobilePre. Then it was just a matter of carefully tweaking the gain on both preamps until I got the right balance. It still didn't sound perfect, but it was a lot better, and I was able to get my money's worth from the MobilePre until I upgraded to a good mixer around Christmastime.

If you're interested in the same solution, and EBay doesn't have good deals right now, I'd be willing to sell you my ART preamp for the price I paid for it plus shipping. Or you can try the other solutions you mentioned: a condenser mic, or a different interface. Good luck!

[SFEley]

The 2 Mics on the Presidents podium are Shure SM57's
He's another podcaster who should be worrying about content rather than sound quality. >8->

[jeffoest]

Just a little note about the 57's and 58's. These mics are dismissed much too quickly and much too often. If you say its only for live applications, I would then ask why it is that every pro studio has them?

My understanding is that most studio's have them because they are cheap and plentiful and very handy for micing electric guitar amps and snares as well as other odds and ends here and there. Recording vocals in a studio environment? Not so much... That doesn't mean that the 57/58 sounds BAD for studio vocals, it's just that most producers find that there are usually mics (usually condensers) that sounds better for any particular voice.

[roadrageradio]

Just a little note about the 57's and 58's. These mics are dismissed much too quickly and much too often. If you say its only for live applications, I would then ask why it is that every pro studio has them?

My understanding is that most studio's have them because they are cheap and plentiful and very handy for micing electric guitar amps and snares as well as other odds and ends here and there. Recording vocals in a studio environment? Not so much... That doesn't mean that the 57/58 sounds BAD for studio vocals, it's just that most producers find that there are usually mics (usually condensers) that sounds better for any particular voice.

Most of the audio and broadcast engineers I know think of the SM57/58 as the desert island mic. (If you were about to stranded on a desert island and could only bring one mic with you, it would be one of these.)

It's not the best mic for any given purpose, but it's better than almost anything else at doing a lot of things well.

Add the low price and incredible ruggedness, and you have a great mic to have around.

[Big Mike]

Sounds to me like a pre-amp issue. If you don't have anything plugged into it and you can achieve the very 'hiss' you're talking about, I'd bet it was that.

I'm not touching the mic fight, tho....

[SFEley]

Most of the audio and broadcast engineers I know think of the SM57/58 as the desert island mic. (If you were about to stranded on a desert island and could only bring one mic with you, it would be one of these.)
That's probably because you could hammer open coconuts with it and not impair the sound quality.

It is a good mic. My single frustration with it is that it's rather quiet for spoken word -- you really do have to turn the gain up all the way to get decent levels. On my Mackie Onyx that means +60dB. I don't know what maximum gain is on the MobilePre, because it isn't labeled, but it's well past the level of noise tolerance.

Musicians don't have to worry about this because everything they do is loud. If your micing a guitar amp or drums or a shrill singer whose favorite closer is screaming "Immigrant Song" in the style of Alanis Morrisette, I can believe that the SM57 would be clean and smooth at levels that would destroy a condenser mic. But for me, in my living room, at just above normal speaking levels? You have to really push the gain. Not a bad thing, as long as you have good preamps. You just have to be aware of the need.

[monkey_one]

Most of the audio and broadcast engineers I know think of the SM57/58 as the desert island mic. (If you were about to stranded on a desert island and could only bring one mic with you, it would be one of these.)
That's probably because you could hammer open coconuts with it and not impair the sound quality.

It is a good mic. My single frustration with it is that it's rather quiet for spoken word -- you really do have to turn the gain up all the way to get decent levels. On my Mackie Onyx that means +60dB. I don't know what maximum gain is on the MobilePre, because it isn't labeled, but it's well past the level of noise tolerance.

Musicians don't have to worry about this because everything they do is loud. If your micing a guitar amp or drums or a shrill singer whose favorite closer is screaming "Immigrant Song" in the style of Alanis Morrisette, I can believe that the SM57 would be clean and smooth at levels that would destroy a condenser mic. But for me, in my living room, at just above normal speaking levels? You have to really push the gain. Not a bad thing, as long as you have good preamps. You just have to be aware of the need.

hey steve how is the onynx I heard the pramps are really good /and if your using a mobile pre then i assume you havnt got the firewire card for it yet?

[SFEley]

hey steve how is the onynx I heard the pramps are really good
The Onyx has amazing preamps. What I love about it is that I can turn the gain all the way up and there is absolutely no noise from the mixer. Noise from everything else, sure: on the SM57, turning up the Onyx's gain all the way makes lip popping a bit too clear. On my AKG Perception 200 (my newer condenser mic), max gain on the Onyx picks up the fridge in the other room, traffic on the highway across the river, and the sound of my own quiet breathing from six feet away. But the mixer? No noise. It's a lovely thing, even if it's pretty much overkill for my needs.


and if your using a mobile pre then i assume you havnt got the firewire card for it yet?
No, I've got the Firewire card for it too. That's why I picked up the Onyx when I did: several online sites were running a deal in December that threw in the Firewire card for free. I took the printouts to Guitar Center and had them match it.

The MobilePre is what I used to use, prior to Christmas. Now it's back in the box. I haven't decided whether I'll EBay it or keep it for possible portable needs in the future.

[monkey_one]

No, I've got the Firewire card for it too. That's why I picked up the Onyx when I did: several online sites were running a deal in December that threw in the Firewire card for free. I took the printouts to Guitar Center and had them match it.

The MobilePre is what I used to use, prior to Christmas. Now it's back in the box. I haven't decided whether I'll EBay it or keep it for possible portable needs in the future.

man i am going to try to get eighter the mackie 1202 pro or the onynx sometime this year
sound slike I need to pay attention and scrape for a deal like you got man I have been looking at the onynx alot and drooling good for you bro....

[SFEley]

man i am going to try to get eighter the mackie 1202 pro or the onynx sometime this year

If your budget is tight, you might want to wait a couple of months: there's word out that Behringer just introduced a knockoff line called the XENYX (heh) that features "boutique-style preamps," "neo-classic British EQ," and an optional USB interface. In other words, they're cloning the Mackie Onyx as closely as they can legally get away with. (Or at least they hope they can legally get away with it.) >8-> The one that most closely matches the Onyx 1220 (http://www.behringer.com/1204/index.cfm?lang=ENG) has an MSRP of about $200. There's even a cute 1-preamp version (http://www.behringer.com/502/index.cfm?lang=ENG) that costs $50.

Will it be as good as the Mackie? No. But it's a hell of a lot cheaper, and if the preamps are even moderately decent it could be a terrific deal for podcasters.

[monkey_one]

Will it be as good as the Mackie? No. But it's a hell of a lot cheaper, and if the preamps are even moderately decent it could be a terrific deal for podcasters.

also alesis has a usb and firewire competeter starting at 8 in firewire for i think $299
I found it here is the specs (http://www.alesis.com/product.php?id=40)
about $800 less than the macie onyx 1200 with firewire card
but I have used macie before and really like it and am sort of partial towards mackie
I guess I will have to wait and see.... :wink:

[theperfectsong]

Do some research before buying the Behringer. I've dealt with Sweetwater Music for years and trust my sales rep. He steered me away from Behringer, saying they stopped carrying the brand years ago because they were cheaply made and yes, were copying Mackie to bring edge of being illegal.
Given that, I'm not sure what their follow-up service would be.
I did spring for the Mackie and firewire soundcard and love them.

[damon]

Hey everyone,

Thanks so much for all that good feedback. It's funny, I had spent all this time asking other recording people (non-podcasters) about my setup and it wasn't until I got over here that I actually got some answers that made sense.

I'm putting together an audiobook recording -- so, it would be nice to have clear spoken word without the hiss. Someone at a music store recommend my getting the firebox from Sonus, I believe. I will look through a lot of the other recommendations you guys have listed for alternate amplifiers.

I will include a link at the bottom to an audio test I had made between a condensor lapel mic I had used for video shooting and the 58. The 58 sounds a lot better, but I was just concerned about that hiss. It might not even really be an issue

http://www.damonjustisntfunny.com/mp3/audiotest.mp3

I made that test a while back when I was getting paranoid about the sound; I sound like a dork but you get the idea.

D

[roadrageradio]

Hey everyone,

Thanks so much for all that good feedback. It's funny, I had spent all this time asking other recording people (non-podcasters) about my setup and it wasn't until I got over here that I actually got some answers that made sense.

I'm putting together an audiobook recording -- so, it would be nice to have clear spoken word without the hiss. Someone at a music store recommend my getting the firebox from Sonus, I believe. I will look through a lot of the other recommendations you guys have listed for alternate amplifiers.

D

I'm not here to sell SM58's. There are better mics. BUT, I have recorded three audiobooks and some other long form narrations using an SM58 with an inexpensive Behringer Eurorack mixer, with no hiss and satisfactory results. ( I was asked to do more)

Sure, I'd rather have an RE20 mic and a Mackie mixer, but -- one thing at a time.

[damon]

Just pulled up the eurorack mixer -- that doesn't seem to have a USB or Firewire interface ... do you hook it up just using the audio line in jack on the computer? Or were you recording to some other digital tape?

[X Pat Radio]

Just pulled up the eurorack mixer -- that doesn't seem to have a USB or Firewire interface ... do you hook it up just using the audio line in jack on the computer? Or were you recording to some other digital tape?

Use the line-in port.

Behringer is coming out with a new mixer line:
http://www.behringer.com/XENYX-SERIES/index.cfm?lang=ENG