Why the censorship here?

[frankwit]

I checked back in to look at the "the voting system is completely worthless" topic I put up, only to see that it was locked down. Why? Because it became too heated. I agree the insults are childish, but why lock down an entire debate because of a few douche bags. I think this can only harm the community, not help it...

[foolafoola]

Hey Frank, weren't you the same guy that was planning to leave Podcast Alley? Hey by the way are you Joe Vitale?

[frankwit]

Leaving as in not asking for votes... but I thought it would be interesting to see what others thought of the voting system and podcastalley itself... Who the **** is Joe Vitale?

[el]

Maybe if the douche bags stayed out of those posts and they were actually going somewhere they wouldn't get locked down.

[smcminn]

It was a great debate, but there were some childish personal attacks going on. I think it was a good move to lock the discussion. If people want to start a new one on the same topic, they can. I don't think there's censorship on the topic iteself.

[etomorrow]

i'm not so sure it needed to be locked. perhaps just the personal attacks deleted.

but then again, i'm not a mod here.

[paulyb]

Maybe if the douche bags stayed out of those posts and they were actually going somewhere they wouldn't get locked down.

Ha! Ha! You said douche bags

[Wintersheart]

The personal attacks need to be deleted that was beyond the joke.

-Lynne

[tabulator32]

Can't delete in a locked topic...as I just learned.

I was going to retract my statements, but...its locked.

[kickasspodcast]

I don't think its really censorship, I think its just moderation, its gotta be a pain in the *** to deal with, I know nobody gets paid skwat for their time. I tend to agree with Jeff locking that thread, I think that Vator guy or whoever pretty much sealed the deal dropping f bombs left and right, I'm the 1st guy to b!tch about moderation but I agree with the mods on locking that one.

:)

Jack

[frankwit]

I don't think its really censorship, I think its just moderation, its gotta be a pain in the *** to deal with, I know nobody gets paid skwat for their time. I tend to agree with Jeff locking that thread, I think that Vator guy or whoever pretty much sealed the deal dropping f bombs left and right, I'm the 1st guy to b!tch about moderation but I agree with the mods on locking that one.

:)

Jack

I suppose you're right Jack... Now whats up with the Vitale dude hitting the number 2 spot that fast... seriously the voting process should just be shut down on the alley until they figure out how to make a proper working system.

[frankwit]

I don't think its really censorship, I think its just moderation, its gotta be a pain in the *** to deal with, I know nobody gets paid skwat for their time. I tend to agree with Jeff locking that thread, I think that Vator guy or whoever pretty much sealed the deal dropping f bombs left and right, I'm the 1st guy to b!tch about moderation but I agree with the mods on locking that one.

:)

Jack

I suppose you're right Jack... Now whats up with the Vitale dude hitting the number 2 spot that fast... seriously the voting process should just be shut down on the alley until they figure out how to make a proper working system.

Hmmm a PHD in Marketing that explains it.

[vator]

I don't think its really censorship, I think its just moderation, its gotta be a pain in the *** to deal with, I know nobody gets paid skwat for their time. I tend to agree with Jeff locking that thread, I think that Vator guy or whoever pretty much sealed the deal dropping f bombs left and right, I'm the 1st guy to b!tch about moderation but I agree with the mods on locking that one.

:)

Jack

Wait a minute, Okay I came out swinging, I admit and was pissed. I said some things about Lynne and I said sorry. Then Mr. Kinky sex and everyone else played like I was an idiot when I brought up the Joe Vitale Podcast, which as you can all see is now #2! I said the Alley should ban this guy and nothing has been done. Finally Pez came in and agreed with me and the thread was shut down. I'm just saying here, I was just upset, and I do think it was that thread by Wit that was the begining to the end of the voting system here.

The question is, what are you guys going to do about this? Is anyone emailing the Admin about this?

Back to the topic about censorship, you can blame me all you want. But if I said something like "Jack you an *****le" then in the next thread I say "sorry I was wrong" isn't the problem resolved? Isn't that what a forum is about, didn't we all learn something?

[ElNacho]

dude it didnt end all happy fields meadows parks picnic ambrosia. u were continually lashin out. you finally half apologized...on the 6th page. those last two sentences r rong that u rote...u call someone an asswhole and it doesnt matter if u "apologize", they're still gonna consider u a jackass for attakin without any kind of uhhhhhhhhhhhhh reason or whatever

[smcminn]

I am sure admin is aware of the situation now. And, yes, I think something was learned from the other thead. So, let's start discussing now without personally attacking people.

I lack technical skills, but it seems that the voting system is poor here.

Is there a way for the alley to measure podcast subscribers? or downloads? I don't think so, but that would be the best way.

What about the admin people picking the top ten?

What about something simialr to the Pickle?

[ElNacho]

hell, how bout we all go over to the pickle? well at least the nice people. dipshits kan stay here.

[kinkysex]

Measuring feedburner stats would be equally worthless.

They can be faked. I won't say how, but think about it and you'll figure it out.

So, how do we measure subscriptions? Anyone?

[Wintersheart]

I really want it deleted not imortalised in time its slander.

-Lynne

[kinkysex]

I really want it deleted not imortalised in time its slander.

PM a moderator. They might say, "yes."

[frankwit]

The point of getting into a top ten is exposure, am i correct? If a show is extremely poplular and or has a ton of fanboys/girls it will remain at the top overshadowing everything else, and hardly giving any other show a chance. There must be someway to give each show a fair chance at being seen... the voting system here is certainly broken, it's easy to fake votes and put yourself in the top ten. Podcasting is so "clicky" anyhow. Sometimes it seems like being in highschool all over again.

[frankwit]

There might be something to the garageband.com style of rankings. In order to be ranked yourself you're forced to listen to and rate random podcasts. I can see a multitude of complications with this as well, but there might be something to it.

[ElNacho]

how about some more active mods. if someone's only giving themself a few proxy votes they won't be noticed, but wudint make much of a difference. if the admins were more active they'd be able to weed out these cheatin casts...

[kickasspodcast]

1. Any 12 year old with a buncha free time and a copy of A4Proxy (http://www.inetprivacy.com/a4proxy/) can eventually dupe any voting system based on IPs. (no offense to any of the youths, its just an expression) ;)

2. This tactic is really old and is next to impossible to stop/prevent. I'm sure there are ways, but you end up making normal users jump through so many hoops as to defeat the purpose.

3. Who cares if Dr. Joe Vitale got 2nd place in a day. Maybe he has 10,000 clients and 8% of them voted. I kinda wish that Radio Podcasts would start encouraging their listeners to vote. What would you say then? I can gaurantee that virtually no amature podcast would ever be seen again. Remember it doesn't even take 1000 people to vote to be #1.

4: Why would anyone accuse someone of cheating unless they had proof? This just makes them less credible in the future. Particularly if they aren't too kind to the ladies (still a bit old fashion sorry) and if they are dropping F bombs all over the place.


Things get heated and that actually is good for traffic and forum activity, but it can obviously get out of hand really fast. In another forum someone you probably have heard of said this unkind thing to me:

Since Jack doesn't listen to DSC, I hope the Pickle Community will post details of the network as they are unveiled, so he can keep up to date. It would be a shame for him to miss the opportunity to quit his day job of polluting conversations.

I didn't think that was called for, I don't have the day job of conversation polluter and I think that was very rude. But who cares, who freakin cares? Its 1 guy, so is Dr. Joe Vitale, who really cares anyways?

Ultimately that snide remark got people talking and hitting the site a couple more times that day and that ultimately was a good thing, now if people learned anything from that thread, it was an even better thing. Not taking things personal is almost more important than not getting personal with others. Like diminishing their hobbies or ficticious day jobs.

As for voting...

We were talking about the PCA voting system last summer, proxy servers were mentioned and I personally gave out the same a4 link as above. If someone is going to cheat on voting or burn your house down (and they really want to) there is not much you do to stop them.

This is why in the now locked thread, which I still agree should have been locked, I said basically who cares. Why care about the voting system here. This place is owned by a multimillion dollar company and they have the right to do whatever they want, I'm sure theFerf cares more about this place than anyone, I'm sure he's doing his best. Even if the voting system here was flawless, would you really rely on 1 website or even put that much stock in 1 website?

As soon as someone figures a way to keep the door closed, someone finds or forges a better set of lock picks.

Jack

note: I've spent some time working with proxy servers, for truly anonymous browsing, its a pain in the *** and to cheat on voting takes hours and hours and hours... maybe some people get all snap nasty with it, but my experiences were tedius, and time prohibitive.

[frankwit]

I agree with 99% of what you've said... Jack, I'm going to go check out your cast, as i never have. Multimillion dollar company is right... podcasts will be ruined by this i swear they will!

[tabulator32]

I just went to check out proxy.org to see how it works and it seems pretty cool.

(Don't worry. I don't care to falsify votes for my show. No one wopuld believe it anyway.)

8)

Anyhow, I tried coming to the Alley via proxy and it seems I can't access any of the shows when I do a search and click on them. Is this a recent update to prevent cheaters from scamming votes?

Is the problem fixed?

[kinkysex]

I just went to check out proxy.org to see how it works and it seems pretty cool.

(Don't worry. I don't care to falsify votes for my show. No one wopuld believe it anyway.)

8)

Anyhow, I tried coming to the Alley via proxy and it seems I can't access any of the shows when I do a search and click on them. Is this a recent update to prevent cheaters from scamming votes?

Is the problem fixed?

did you try a couple of proxies? go to griffin's guide or RBPC and type a fake e-mail into the vote box.

EDIT:
Kurt,I just fake voted for you. Twice. So, no - it isn't fixed yet. I don't know how you'd fix it.

[kinkysex]

of course, that's in addition to my real vote for you. :lol:

[Wintersheart]

I dont want fake votes thanks give em to someone else ;)-

[paulyb]

I don't think its really censorship, I think its just moderation, its gotta be a pain in the *** to deal with, I know nobody gets paid skwat for their time. I tend to agree with Jeff locking that thread, I think that Vator guy or whoever pretty much sealed the deal dropping f bombs left and right, I'm the 1st guy to b!tch about moderation but I agree with the mods on locking that one.

:)

Jack

I suppose you're right Jack... Now whats up with the Vitale dude hitting the number 2 spot that fast... seriously the voting process should just be shut down on the alley until they figure out how to make a proper working system.

I'm not absolutely sure there's anything wrong with this guy - what's to say he just didn't have a huge database through his website, let them all know he was podcasting, asked them to vote, and they did - what's the show for crying out loud? It's "sales and hypnosis" or something! I certainly don't think it happened as a result of that other thread.

Oh and Lynne, I agree - hopefully the mods will remove the hateful and unjust remarks that were made about you and just put this down to experience. This is supposed to be a section of the site primarily for podcasters (I believe) and I would be very disappointed if a fellow podcaster was being so unpleasant. I hope you didn't take the remarks too personally.

Anyway - censorship is no bad thing in a situation like this, I'm sure most of you would agree...

[tabulator32]

of course, that's in addition to my real vote for you. :lol:

Its the real ones I appreciate, Tom!

Thanks for prvoing a point but. like I said, I wasn't actually trying to falsify my vote count.

:? :lol:

Anyway, thanks for the prompt response!

:P

[etomorrow]

yeah i'd like to see the personal attack posts go away.

[loganrapp]

It's not censorship when you're in a privately owned forum. They can delete whatever they want and it does not infringe on your first amendment rights.

[Big Mike]

It's not censorship when you're in a privately owned forum. They can delete whatever they want and it does not infringe on your first amendment rights.
100%

[kickasspodcast]

It's not censorship when you're in a privately owned forum. They can delete whatever they want and it does not infringe on your first amendment rights.
100%

100%

[etomorrow]

It's not censorship when you're in a privately owned forum. They can delete whatever they want and it does not infringe on your first amendment rights.
100%

100%

99.7%

[roadrageradio]

It's not censorship when you're in a privately owned forum. They can delete whatever they want and it does not infringe on your first amendment rights.

And it's also not censorship when they leave the entire thread there, for anyone to read. "Censorship" is preventing you from commenting or others from reading your comment. They have done neither.

There's a lot of ignorance about what is and isn't free speech and what constitutes censorship.

For one thing, the first amendment only applies to the government and only in a public place. On private property an individual or a company has no obligation to provide you with free speech. Try making a speech in a shopping mall, and see where that gets you. (Hint: bring bail money with you)

Second, and this is really important, your right to speak freely in no way forces anyone to listen.

[frankwit]

Jesus Christ... I understand what censorship is... but it's a hell of a headline/attention grabber for a debate.

[roadrageradio]

Jesus Christ... I understand what censorship is... but it's a hell of a headline/attention grabber for a debate.

Sorry I misunderstood.

I took you at your word. It won't happen again.

[Steve Pinder]

Censorship is a word used to describe the feeling when someone can not appropriately convey their thoughts in a mannor that is acceptable.
We all scream "Censorship!!!!!!"

Think about what you were upset at first.

It was the voting process.
Someone got upset, or jelous at another shows votes, because they, maybe, asked friends to vote for them.
SO WHAT
If you have friends, ask them.
If you dont have friends that will vote, then look at the mannor of your posts and ask yourself why?

My 2Cents

Steve Pinder
www.karatekast.com

[Steve Pinder]

Hey big mike,
I'm heading up to Conn. on Saturday to Mohegan Sun Casino to record a show at Chuck Norris' WCL.
Are you going to be around there?

Steve Pinder

[loganrapp]

Jesus Christ... I understand what censorship is... but it's a hell of a headline/attention grabber for a debate.

Yeah, and it dimishes the power of the word's true meaning, also making you sound like a whiny self-proclaimed "nonconformist" - I'm not saying that's what you are, and it's not intended to insult you, but that's what it appears to be when you throw the word around like it was on your word-a-day calendar.

Just like people who say "nationalism" like it's a bad thing, when they really mean "ultranationalism." Now people believe nationalism is a bad thing, because when you tell them something enough times, they generally will believe it.

Say what you mean. Let's not weaken the language anymore than we already have.

[monkey_one]

Jesus Christ... I understand what censorship is... but it's a hell of a headline/attention grabber for a debate.

Yeah, and it dimishes the power of the word's true meaning, also making you sound like a whiny self-proclaimed "nonconformist" - I'm not saying that's what you are, and it's not intended to insult you, but that's what it appears to be when you throw the word around like it was on your word-a-day calendar.

Just like people who say "nationalism" like it's a bad thing, when they really mean "ultranationalism." Now people believe nationalism is a bad thing, because when you tell them something enough times, they generally will believe it.

Say what you mean. Let's not weaken the language anymore than we already have.
Yea lets call it semi-censorship or sorta-censorship or psedo-censorship but not really
**** piss **** **** ******cker mother****er tits oh look I was right podcast alley lets 4 out of 7 of the dirty words through like I sed semi-censorship LOL

[loganrapp]

Monkey, you are the cherry on my sundae.

[monkey_one]

Monkey, you are the cherry on my sundae.
Why I think thats the nicest thing anybody has ever said to me

[Steve Pinder]

No wonder this thread died,.....


steve pinder
www.karatekast.com