Vidcasters & Video Bloggers please use multiple formats.

[kickasspodcast]

Hello all creators/producers of Video content available through RSS,

My name is Jack, I listen to alot of shows, I watch some vidcasts too. I keep running into this problem. Very few shows make their files available in multiple formats. At best I see .m4v or .mov. Please stop this silly habit. I understand wanting to make your show available for the Video Ipod. Duh. But for those of us who don't use those formats, its entirely annoying when we try to watch to your show. If your show is only available in .m4v OR .mov, I'll never, ever watch it. I am not from the moon or some exceptional computer habit haver, so please make your show available in a couple of formats. Definitely something other than .mov or .m4v for those of us who don't use itunes or the video ipod.

Thanks alot-

Jack


PS: If you encode your Podcast to VBR, knock it off, many common players like the iriver are unable to correctly play this format of encoding. I've also not seen any real advantage to using VBR in a spoken word audio. Thanks for that too! :)

[ElNacho]

so...are you saying to like make a different format available on the website?
like avi?

[Steev]

PS: If you encode your Podcast to VBR, knock it off, many common players like the iriver are unable to correctly play this format of encoding. I've also not seen any real advantage to using VBR in a spoken word audio.
Sorry, dude. I do a mostly-talk podcast that I encode in VBR, play on my iRiver, and it works just fine :) And because I play a piece of music now and then, it's useful to encode in VBR. Just the right amount of bits for the right purposes. VBR is the default setting in Lame. 3.96 and up anyway. What kind of iRiver do you have? I'm using an IFP-799 using v1.25 firmware.

On a side note, I sometimes listen to podcasts on my Pocket PC device, and if a podcast is mono (as opposed to stereo), it'll "skip" a bit. But still listenable, just annoying.

EDIT: Just realized that Jack was probably talking about video VBR :|

[kickasspodcast]

Not .avi, that would be too big of a file. Something that Winamp or Windows Media could play. Doesn't seem like you can get Quicktime without itunes or Itunes without Quicktime. If i'm wrong, lemme know, but when I got to the site it forces me to download both, then if I uninstall either, neither works.

.mpg, .mp4, .wmv are fine, no realplayer files for me thought, Realplayer isn't allowed on my hard drive.


@Steev.
I was talking about audio VBR encoding, but I wasn't too clear.

I have an ifp 899, my buddy fosco has an ifp 799. We've tried all kinds of audio shows in VBR mp3 and none of them stop and start or pause or scan right. Sometimes it will be fine for the 1st 10-20% of the show, which is odd behavior, but i've a witness! ;) The only way you can pause is to turn off the player. I use the factory UMS firmware VER 1.243, works fine for VBR music files, you can scan just fine, but it doesn't work well scanning/pausing etc... in spoken word files. I've tried it on both models and have learned on http://www.misticriver.net/ that there is some compression foul up with the irivers playing VBR.

VBR is solid for music I suppose, even though I start usually with lossless formats, but it doesn't make any sense at all to me, it doesn't sound better, the files aren't that much smaller, and (in my own tests)it takes for freakin ever to encode at a VBR. If you are really low on bandwidth maybe, but it doesn't seem to make that much of a difference in resulting file size.

Chances are if you are listening to your own show you probably don't scan, maybe listening in post production whilst editing? Or listening to yourself to improve, your probably not scanning alot, maybe you are, I dunno.

Alot of players don't play VBR spoken word mp3s that well, its annoying having to convert files into something constant in order to listen to them. I would like to thank the fine folks at Vox Monitor for encoding their show at 44/192, it sounds great and it plays great.

I play alot of music in the Kickass Podcast also, quite a bit of it starts in lossless formats and then gets compressed once at 44/192, i still wanna encode at better quality though... I care little about file size/bandwidth. I can say this for sure, VBR will never sound better than something encoded at a constant bit rate at really nice levels. Maybe if you set the range that it will vary during compression to be overall better quality? something like 96-192, instead of 11-128?

I haven't dorked with it other than I know that several people using different programs make VBR podcasts that I have to struggle to get through.

Rest assured, The Small World Podcast will always get the 6 minutes it takes me to reencode. Its well worth it! :)

As for defaults, I encode most everything now in Soundforge 8 or Vegas 5 so I can pretty much tweak it anyway I need to.


Peaceout-

Jack

[Cali]

Jack...I understand you asking for different file types. I'm just curious, though, is there a particular reason you don't want to watch videos on iTunes or Quicktime?

[kickasspodcast]

Hey there-

Fair question, i don't particularly like anything about itunes other than the fact that it does help people learn about podcasting, I think the software (itunes) is bunk. Also, why does it have to always run in the background? Booo... I don't like so much laggy resident apps. :X

Quicktime is only slightly more annoying than Real Player. When I go to get quicktime, http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/win.html it says

"QuickTime 7 with iTunes 6
for Windows 2000/XP"

There (unfortunately) is no [HELL NO ITUNES, BUT YEAH OK QUICKTIME] box that I can find to check, so I download Quicktime. Then I uninstall itunes (see 1st paragraph) and badabing! Quicktime no longer works. On the other side, when I wanna try and refill my wife's shuffle so she doesn't have to keep listening to the same 30 tracks, I get itunes, and what do ya know? It comes with quicktime. Pardon the Sarcasm, but I think its just a bad idea to force-package those two applications.

So yeah, I guess, as verbose as I tend to be, that's why.

I also think that Winamp rocks, and that its just better to put your stuff out in as many formats as you can. I'm gonna put the Kickass Podcast out in lossless soon, its gonna mean 400 mb shows, but who cares, it'll sound pretty crispy! :D I've seen the casualties of format wars in the past, sometimes they are more revolutionary than evolutionary, but i've found that mostly, they are brought on for business' strategy and marketshares.

Besides, its just more universal no?

I do have to say that I'm sure Quicktime works great for all the people who enjoy it, as does itunes for the millions who use it, i've been told by people that its great. <shrugs> I think anyone with a show thats much more than an hour should release it in mp3 and AAC so ipod users can bookmark the files, just makes the experience easier for newbs and us audio junkies.

peaceout-

Jack

note: ironic that Cali's show was one that I have yet to enjoy, sad .mov files only :cry:


off to play CS L8R

[frankmcma]

Jack,

I lived through the streaming video years, with multiple players, formats, compatibility problems, all kinds of woes (scroll to the bottom of this page for many of my 2000-ish web video articles (http://fmstudio.com/writing.htm)..retro!) and while I am a supporter of free enterprise, I think settling into the QT format for video podcast does make things easier.

Producing one format is tough enough, much less several. Apple has worked hard to push quicktime (we all could have picked any format really) and while I see windows media as more a streaming format, I see quicktime as a very portable platform with perks like bookmarks, chapters and enhanced features such as..well...enhanced podcasts (with pics).

I wish you would consider iTunes, it (currently) is an epicenter to not only promote and grow an audience into huge numbers, but it also is a great look at the podcast landscape (fyi..commercial podcasts are taking over itunes) and tracking in multiple countries allows making marketing decisions on growing a show. By the way, the quicktime player is a free download, no itunes needed.

Podshow is coming out with guns blazin' in 2006, so the iTunes lock will be picked I am sure, it may no longer be the place to see what is happening. But for now using quicktime and the various codecs and making shows compatible with millions of ipods (and millions more as of the 25th as lots of stats are showing) is maybe not the best road, but maybe its the best road right now.

Franklin

[frankmcma]

just read your response..while I was posting...hmmm...quicktime should be apart from the itunes download...that is a bummer...

Franklin

[Metaphore]

With 150 meg files for my movie length Vidcast I think I'll stick to my target market of people who are willing to watch on iPods or in iTunes. Unless of course your willing to donate 20 bucks a month it will cost me for space to add other file types.
Just a question, as I havnt checked and wont more than likely, how many file versions of your show do you have for people with diffenrt audio tastes? Do you have a high bitrate version? an ACC version a pure .Wav file version? A low bitrate version for those with old .mp3 players or dialup?

[tipsychicks]

i am trying to get into the vidcasting game and am totally confused what format to stick the thing in. i certainly don't want to mess around with multiple formats. what's the best then, .mp4? i really don't know crap about this stuff, i'm just looking at what i can export it as in quicktime. i guess jack doesn't need to be able to look at it...so i don't need to avoid those formats!

i think the mk show looks fantastic, so i pretty much tend to want to copy whatever the sexy boyfriend does.

[dangercast]

Hello all creators/producers of Video content available through RSS,

My name is Jack, I listen to alot of shows, I watch some vidcasts too. I keep running into this problem. Very few shows make their files available in multiple formats. At best I see .m4v or .mov. Please stop this silly habit. I understand wanting to make your show available for the Video Ipod. Duh. But for those of us who don't use those formats, its entirely annoying when we try to watch to your show. If your show is only available in .m4v OR .mov, I'll never, ever watch it. I am not from the moon or some exceptional computer habit haver, so please make your show available in a couple of formats. Definitely something other than .mov or .m4v for those of us who don't use itunes or the video ipod.

Thanks alot-

Jack


PS: If you encode your Podcast to VBR, knock it off, many common players like the iriver are unable to correctly play this format of encoding. I've also not seen any real advantage to using VBR in a spoken word audio. Thanks for that too! :)


I wanted to create multiple formats, but since my vidcast is new, I wanted to keep it simple in terms of creating multiple enclosure tags for each file type. Since I am a Windows user, I would have preferred a WMV format, but given the presence of iTunes, and the fact that Windows and Apple users can play .MOV files, I opted for QT Pro and convert all of my files to .MOV with the h.264 codec. MOV files encoded in h.264 will play on iPods, Apple computers as well as Windows. I think at this juncture, I made a reasonable compromise.

Some established vidcasts offer their shows in multiple formats. Rocketboom.com is a good example of this.

[tipsychicks]

it looks to me like my .mov file is also smaller that my .m4v file. does this mean i should go that route?

i have to admit i am a complete moron when it comes to these issues.

[dangercast]

i am trying to get into the vidcasting game and am totally confused what format to stick the thing in. i certainly don't want to mess around with multiple formats. what's the best then, .mp4? i really don't know crap about this stuff, i'm just looking at what i can export it as in quicktime. i guess jack doesn't need to be able to look at it...so i don't need to avoid those formats!

i think the mk show looks fantastic, so i pretty much tend to want to copy whatever the sexy boyfriend does.

The MK show video quality is very good indeed, but the file sizes are sometimes prohibitively large.

[frankmcma]

Erica,

MK episodes from #23 on are now shot with a digital camera believe it or not! It's the Casio Exilim EX-S500 (http://exilim.casio.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=cameras.features&exp_id=1A5770F3-C9FD-45EC-992C-F6A411DB509A) - episodes before that were shot on MiniDV..shooting..capture..etc - now its shot with a camera and it saves it as an AVI which is easily converted to ipod video format with QuickTime.

The sound is the built in mic on the Casio, not bad, but not the nice lav mics of the minidv shows. Best part of using the Casio is production speed, no video capturing, plus you can use the camera controls to alter the video (black and white mode, boost saturation, etc.)

If you are getting into video podcasts, and you should, look into digital cameras that shoot video..makes things much easier...

Franklin

[tipsychicks]

thanks, frank! i have to admit something to you - i was never a fan of the lavs, because i didn't like one voice on the left and one on the right!

how do you feel about .mov?

i just looked at that camera - you shoot the show with that little thing? that is amazing.

[frankmcma]

I did like them, and the stereo-ness, but some did not. I felt that they were always so close, marys audio picked up in karlas and vice versa...so it was never totally seperate..the episodes in marys apartment sound amazing to me, because of the echo and ambient sound (like #15 (http://archive5.libsyn.com/podcasts/mediaartist/mk15.mp3) ) but yeah some peeps are glad its back to mono. The lavs have more dymanic range, but the built in casio mic works very nicely for such a small mic.

.mov is the worst format you could use, it will be the biggest file sizes. I suggest .m4v...is has excellent quality and small file sizes (its the default ipod format in quicktime). mp4 is better than .mov, but mp4 files are much bigger than .m4v.

[tipsychicks]

i am confused because i took something out of imovie and made it a quicktime .mov and it is 16 MB. i then converted this to the ipod movie and now it is 20 MB. am i missing something?

[dangercast]

I did like them, and the stereo-ness, but some did not. I felt that they were always so close, marys audio picked up in karlas and vice versa...so it was never totally seperate..the episodes in marys apartment sound amazing to me, because of the echo and ambient sound (like #15 (http://archive5.libsyn.com/podcasts/mediaartist/mk15.mp3) ) but yeah some peeps are glad its back to mono. The lavs have more dymanic range, but the built in casio mic works very nicely for such a small mic.

.mov is the worst format you could use, it will be the biggest file sizes. I suggest .m4v...is has excellent quality and small file sizes (its the default ipod format in quicktime). mp4 is better than .mov, but mp4 files are much bigger than .m4v.


A lot of folks on Windows will get error messages with m4v.

[ElNacho]

A lot of folks on Windows will get error messages with m4v.

is that because of codecs stuff?

[dangercast]

A lot of folks on Windows will get error messages with m4v.

is that because of codecs stuff?

Yes and no. For whatever reason, Windows associates the file with Windows Media Player by default (I don't know why). Trying to play the m4v in WMP obviously won't work. It's easy enough to configure windows to associate m4v with QT, but a lot of users won't know about this, hence the error messages when they try to play the file with default Window's player (WMP).

So, if you encode your stuff in m4v, most of your windows audience won't know what the hell to do with the file, even if you have QT installed. If Windows users subscribe via the iTunes softare... there's no problem. But if they are using any ole RSS aggregator, you may encounter problems.

Now like I said, there are easy workarounds this issue, but most people don't know about them or can't be arsed to do it. Soooo.... you may be dissing 50 percent of your potential audience.

Encoding your crap as a MOV file in h.264 will solve your problems since most Windows machines have QT already installed. And as the Apple website sez.... that format is video ipod friendly.

[dangercast]

A lot of folks on Windows will get error messages with m4v.

is that because of codecs stuff?

Yes and no. For whatever reason, Windows associates the file with Windows Media Player by default (I don't know why). Trying to play the m4v in WMP obviously won't work. It's easy enough to configure windows to associate m4v with QT, but a lot of users won't know about this, hence the error messages when they try to play the file with default Window's player (WMP).

So, if you encode your stuff in m4v, most of your windows audience won't know what the hell to do with the file, even if you have QT installed. If Windows users subscribe via the iTunes softare... there's no problem. But if they are using any ole RSS aggregator, you may encounter problems.

Now like I said, there are easy workarounds this issue, but most people don't know about them or can't be arsed to do it. Soooo.... you may be dissing 50 percent of your potential audience.

Encoding your crap as a MOV file in h.264 will solve your problems since most Windows machines have QT already installed. And as the Apple website sez.... that format is video ipod friendly.

Ok, what I just said is wrong. For whatever reason, my machine no longer has issues with the file extensions. I'm confused. I can't remember if I configured my computer accordingly or what.

[tipsychicks]

you think you are confused. i am completely confused. i guess i just better listen to sexy bf. i mean, he's sexy at the very least.

[dangercast]

you think you are confused. i am completely confused. i guess i just better listen to sexy bf. i mean, he's sexy at the very least.

I cannot compete with his sexiness.

What I really need is to actually know somebody with a video-capable iPod.

[tipsychicks]

darlisha has one. so does my bro - that drunk guy in the vidcast.

[dangercast]

darlisha has one. so does my bro - that drunk guy in the vidcast.

He was awesome. One question: Why were you two passing the headphones around? I mean, the mic wasn't connected to it or anything.

[tipsychicks]

he was drunk. i guess he was trying to act like he was communicating back to houston?

[dangercast]

It was hilarious. I sent you an email echoing this sentiment: I hope you get into the vidcast thing. Your facial expressions and ability to improvise are great.

[dbwalker.com]

Just skimmed the thread ... thought I would throw a few things out there ...

When you install Quicktime and or iTunes, the M4V association is made... when you launch iTunes, it will re-assert the association if need be (if Media player takes it away).

m4v files are h.264 files, with a certain resolution and data rate.

http://www.apple.com/ipod/specs.html says that iPods can play:
H.264 video: up to 768 Kbps, 320 x 240, 30 frames per sec., Baseline Profile up to Level 1.3 with AAC-LC up to 160 Kbps, 48 Khz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4 and .mov file formats

MPEG-4 video: up to 2.5 mbps, 480 x 480, 30 frames per sec., Simple Profile with AAC-LC up to 160 Kbps, 48 Khz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4 and .mov file formats

Your file size might go up if you have a file compressed at a lower data rate, frame rate or resolution that the settings used for the "Export to iPod" option. The export for iPod option is a fixed set if h.264 export options.

So depending on your needs, you might want to just export at a lower quality than the "Export to iPod" option if it works for you.

You can rename the file M4V, or keep the mp4 extension, either way if it is within spec it will go on the ipod.

[dangercast]

Just skimmed the thread ... thought I would throw a few things out there ...

When you install Quicktime and or iTunes, the M4V association is made... when you launch iTunes, it will re-assert the association if need be (if Media player takes it away).

m4v files are h.264 files, with a certain resolution and data rate.

http://www.apple.com/ipod/specs.html says that iPods can play:
H.264 video: up to 768 Kbps, 320 x 240, 30 frames per sec., Baseline Profile up to Level 1.3 with AAC-LC up to 160 Kbps, 48 Khz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4 and .mov file formats

MPEG-4 video: up to 2.5 mbps, 480 x 480, 30 frames per sec., Simple Profile with AAC-LC up to 160 Kbps, 48 Khz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4 and .mov file formats

Your file size might go up if you have a file compressed at a lower data rate, frame rate or resolution that the settings used for the "Export to iPod" option. The export for iPod option is a fixed set if h.264 export options.

So depending on your needs, you might want to just export at a lower quality than the "Export to iPod" option if it works for you.

You can rename the file M4V, or keep the mp4 extension, either way if it is within spec it will go on the ipod.

Thanks for the post. I'm running Windows XP and the M4V association was definitely not made. I did a few tests and I definitely had to tell Windows to associate m4v with either QT or iTunes.

My advice: Encode your crap in MOV (h.264 codec) at 320x240. It's going to be playable on Apple machines, iTunes and Windows machines who have QT installed (most do).

[dangercast]

Just skimmed the thread ... thought I would throw a few things out there ...

When you install Quicktime and or iTunes, the M4V association is made... when you launch iTunes, it will re-assert the association if need be (if Media player takes it away).

This is usually not the case. I wish Windows would though.

[dbwalker.com]

iTunes will re-assert control in the extension wars ... unless you tell it not to, and say dont ask again .... And if you do that, then you can go to the iTunes prefs | Advanced | General tab and click the "use iTunes for internet playback" button...

That being said ... if you then run Media Player, or real player, they may just steal the extensions back without warning you.

It's a war I tell you ... and it aint pretty.

[dangercast]

That's not the way it's working on my machine.

At any rate, why not just encode everything in mov (h.264)? It's playable in iTunes, Video Ipods, Windows (assuming QT is installed, which it usually is).

[frankmcma]

Windows does not like to give control of anything..to anyone. haha But a new install of the latest QT gets everything in order.

If there is an issue where people may not be able to play the file, then I would assume it is on a website, bypassing iTunes. So there should be a "can't see the video? Get QuickTime 7" link of some sort near the files.

I have done a lot of experimenting with video formats for video podcasts, and .mov is a great format, but way too big and certainly not designed for broadband delivery of 15 minute, half hour and longer shows. I wish it WAS the norm because I can export to .mov from any windows media program.

And sexy erica...I am here to help ya sister...

[dangercast]

Windows does not like to give control of anything..to anyone. haha But a new install of the latest QT gets everything in order.

If there is an issue where people may not be able to play the file, then I would assume it is on a website, bypassing iTunes. So there should be a "can't see the video? Get QuickTime 7" link of some sort near the files.

I have done a lot of experimenting with video formats for video podcasts, and .mov is a great format, but way too big and certainly not designed for broadband delivery of 15 minute, half hour and longer shows. I wish it WAS the norm because I can export to .mov from any windows media program.

And sexy erica...I am here to help ya sister...


None of this is true in my experience. A fresh install of QT on Windows will do nothing to help the situation. Are you working on Windows or is this just speculation on your part?

The issue isn't whether Windows can play the file. Of course it can if you have QT installed. The crux of the matter is this: Windows (by default) will perceive m4v has a windows media player thing. An error message will be created and the naive surfer won't know what to do.

As for broadband delivery, you can certainly make modifications as to how the h.264 codec is used with .MOV.

[dbwalker.com]

I'm sure there is something else happening with your machine ... iTunes, and Quicktime, do battle for extensions each time they are launched... if they didnt there would be millions of angry people wondering what the heck was going on when the click a video/mp3/aac file...

And, it's even more odd that Windows media would want the m4v extension, as it's only a month or two old, and as far as I know, only used by iTunes and Quicktime.

I recommend going into file types, and re-assign M4V to iTunes.

If iTunes is not prompting you to take the extensions back, then you must have checked the "Never ask again" button in the "iTunes is not the default player" dialog. If the button in the prefs dialog does not restore the defaults, you will need to delete your iTunes prefs.

Sorta major surgery, if thats what you want to do... in addition, iTunes leaves the preferences in place when you uninstall, so that would not clear this issue up. But deleting the prefs would force them to be recreated.

There are two pref files on Windows, one in a hidden folder, I cant remember the exact locations, but if you go to the Apple site I'm sure there is a step by step you can follow.

[kickasspodcast]

For starters, I bow to the greatness of Franklin, he knows his stuff so I take what he says pretty seriously, I can't however agree on itunes.

With 150 meg files for my movie length Vidcast I think I'll stick to my target market of people who are willing to watch on iPods or in iTunes. Unless of course your willing to donate 20 bucks a month it will cost me for space to add other file types.
Just a question, as I havnt checked and wont more than likely, how many file versions of your show do you have for people with diffenrt audio tastes? Do you have a high bitrate version? an ACC version a pure .Wav file version? A low bitrate version for those with old .mp3 players or dialup?

Wow, I wouldn't hope to expand your viewer base with an attitude like that, you see there this little thing about MP3's, their universal. Every Windows machine in the world can play them from day 1. You don't have to download 1 program that acts as both a player and plug-in. (QT) And another program that's main purpose in life is to sell you music (and reload your ipod if it still works). Its 1 format that everyone can use. I have no idea about a mac, if you need some app or not, I don't care. Macs are fine, but I don't use them because I game and some other reasons but yknow.


My advice: Encode your crap in MOV (h.264 codec) at 320x240. It's going to be playable on Apple machines, iTunes and Windows machines who have QT installed (most do).

Do you have any way of knowing that most computers have QT installed? Or are you just assuming that most do? Do you really have any way of knowing on a global level how many machines have QT on them? I have heard alot of people kinda pissed off ever since apple decided to package QT and Itunes. It is perhaps the dumbest thing in the world to package the two programs, it makes me not wanna use either. Never mind the DRM issues.


The issue isn't whether Windows can play the file. Of course it can if you have QT installed.
Would you knock it off I can't stop laughing! This is absurd, Of course you can play QT formats in windows if QT is installed! Thats hilarious. Windows can't play mov files. Most computer users (by far) in the world use Windows machines. You now have to download itunes for some reason just to get another program that should work like Java (QT).

If your worried about file size for shows 30 min+, don't bother, nobody can stand to hold their video ipod while staring at the little thing for more than 30 minutes anyways.. in podcasting, make a short show right?

Vid casters
It doesn't matter if you think its easier or cheaper or whatever. By using multiple formats you are tapping into much larger audiences. What is not to like about this?

Also, if you are a running a Tech/ tech related Vidcast , you should be the 1st one to be so tech or so much of a geek, that you make your show avail in 2-3 formats just to show off your willingness to be a geek and make things compatible.

Format wars are serious, don't pick sides when your not getting paid to pick a side, make it easier for the most ammount of people. Except for the video ipod, why would anyone think its a good idea to put out their show in a less frequently used format? I have no problem surfing the web without Realplayer or QT installed.

And lastly, this is the main issue to me... if you use only QT format, you make people download itunes. This makes absolutely no sense at all. You shouldn't need itunes to watch a vidcast. Am I wrong? Seriously..


Jack

What about Mpgs? Any of the pro's here know why people don't use that format? Its the #1 vid format for Porn, the #1 use for internet activity, is that not a good format? I honestly am not sure about the issues there, seems like it would be good. It sure is more universal than Mov

[tipsychicks]

jack, i'm not sure your post helped me. i'm not going to put my stuff in multiple formats - and what would that mean for the feed? would i have multiple videos in there all in different formats?

what format are you saying i should use? if you had to pick ONE.

[kickasspodcast]

You should have multiple feeds for all your users. I can see a default feed that's .mov (or whatever you choose), but the idea is to make avaible other formats on your website. Obviously anyone that would subscribe would be able to play your format, so its not really an issue on the feed. But a potential new viewer wouldn't be able to see if they want to subscribe if they can't even check it out once. You know how they have "Download for Windows" "Download for Mac" "Download for Linux" options? Do the same thing with your feed and the show file, thus making it hassel free for all. Not a hassel free-for-all. ;)

The idea is, you don't pick one format. You make it possible for the most ammount of people to easily access your material. Its not my job (or Steve's or Bill's) job to decide what format we use. We use them all, and none of them get control over us. We use them all, and all the users can get what they want!


Jack

added: Eventually I'd like to see options in Directories like PCA that allow people to pick a feed for vidcasts. Windows Feed, QT Feed, etc.. The same could be done with lossless and compressed audio podcasts. Instead of just 1 option, more options!

[tipsychicks]

i don't mean to sound like a moron, but that doesn't sound like my ideal universe. steve jobs, bill gates, whatever, as an end user i just want one, simple, works-all-the-time choice. i have no problem with QT and itunes taking over the world if this can happen.

multiple feeds?? i'll do it, jack, if you promise to subscribe!

[dangercast]

For starters, I bow to the greatness of Franklin, he knows his stuff so I take what he says pretty seriously, I can't however agree on itunes.

With 150 meg files for my movie length Vidcast I think I'll stick to my target market of people who are willing to watch on iPods or in iTunes. Unless of course your willing to donate 20 bucks a month it will cost me for space to add other file types.
Just a question, as I havnt checked and wont more than likely, how many file versions of your show do you have for people with diffenrt audio tastes? Do you have a high bitrate version? an ACC version a pure .Wav file version? A low bitrate version for those with old .mp3 players or dialup?

Wow, I wouldn't hope to expand your viewer base with an attitude like that, you see there this little thing about MP3's, their universal. Every Windows machine in the world can play them from day 1. You don't have to download 1 program that acts as both a player and plug-in. (QT) And another program that's main purpose in life is to sell you music (and reload your ipod if it still works). Its 1 format that everyone can use. I have no idea about a mac, if you need some app or not, I don't care. Macs are fine, but I don't use them because I game and some other reasons but yknow.


My advice: Encode your crap in MOV (h.264 codec) at 320x240. It's going to be playable on Apple machines, iTunes and Windows machines who have QT installed (most do).

Do you have any way of knowing that most computers have QT installed? Or are you just assuming that most do? Do you really have any way of knowing on a global level how many machines have QT on them? I have heard alot of people kinda pissed off ever since apple decided to package QT and Itunes. It is perhaps the dumbest thing in the world to package the two programs, it makes me not wanna use either. Never mind the DRM issues.


The issue isn't whether Windows can play the file. Of course it can if you have QT installed.
Would you knock it off I can't stop laughing! This is absurd, Of course you can play QT formats in windows if QT is installed! Thats hilarious. Windows can't play mov files. Most computer users (by far) in the world use Windows machines. You now have to download itunes for some reason just to get another program that should work like Java (QT).

If your worried about file size for shows 30 min+, don't bother, nobody can stand to hold their video ipod while staring at the little thing for more than 30 minutes anyways.. in podcasting, make a short show right?

Vid casters
It doesn't matter if you think its easier or cheaper or whatever. By using multiple formats you are tapping into much larger audiences. What is not to like about this?

Also, if you are a running a Tech/ tech related Vidcast , you should be the 1st one to be so tech or so much of a geek, that you make your show avail in 2-3 formats just to show off your willingness to be a geek and make things compatible.

Format wars are serious, don't pick sides when your not getting paid to pick a side, make it easier for the most ammount of people. Except for the video ipod, why would anyone think its a good idea to put out their show in a less frequently used format? I have no problem surfing the web without Realplayer or QT installed.

And lastly, this is the main issue to me... if you use only QT format, you make people download itunes. This makes absolutely no sense at all. You shouldn't need itunes to watch a vidcast. Am I wrong? Seriously..


Jack

What about Mpgs? Any of the pro's here know why people don't use that format? Its the #1 vid format for Porn, the #1 use for internet activity, is that not a good format? I honestly am not sure about the issues there, seems like it would be good. It sure is more universal than Mov


Well obviously, multiple formats will tend to increase your potential audience. That goes without saying; but for the simple hobbyist like myself who is just dabbling in this and who isn't considering a career in podcasting, I really have to wonder whether it's worth it. When I started my awesome vidcast, I made a decision to stick with one file format (for now at least) and chose MOV for reasons I have already discussed in this thread.

I mean yeah, if I wasn't lazy, I guess the proper thing to do would be to at least include a wmv and mpeg feed for those of you who refuse to use QT. Some people are also including big *** mpeg2 files that can be used with your TIVO unit if it is plugged into the internet. I guess an audio only version of the show in mp3 wouldn't be a bad idea either. What else? Translating the show into Mandarin Chinese in order to tap into the lucrative Chinese market? My girlfriend already complains that I spend way too much time on the computer as it is and she thinks my show is dumb. I don't see myself transcoding all of these file formats when the MOV format seems to be the most popular at this juncture.

But who knows? Maybe for the next show I will offer some options... just to see how long it takes me to do it all. I don't know how I am going to go about it though and I'm sort apprehensive about the fact that it's going to dilute the stats provided by my main feedburner feed.

I didn't know QT was bundled with iTunes... but is this really an issue for a lot of people?

[dangercast]

You should have multiple feeds for all your users. I can see a default feed that's .mov (or whatever you choose), but the idea is to make avaible other formats on your website. Obviously anyone that would subscribe would be able to play your format, so its not really an issue on the feed. But a potential new viewer wouldn't be able to see if they want to subscribe if they can't even check it out once. You know how they have "Download for Windows" "Download for Mac" "Download for Linux" options? Do the same thing with your feed and the show file, thus making it hassel free for all. Not a hassel free-for-all. ;)

The idea is, you don't pick one format. You make it possible for the most ammount of people to easily access your material. Its not my job (or Steve's or Bill's) job to decide what format we use. We use them all, and none of them get control over us. We use them all, and all the users can get what they want!


Jack

added: Eventually I'd like to see options in Directories like PCA that allow people to pick a feed for vidcasts. Windows Feed, QT Feed, etc.. The same could be done with lossless and compressed audio podcasts. Instead of just 1 option, more options!


Ok, you are convincing me.

Obviously on my site I am going to have a list of all available feeds. For the time being, I am going to offer .MOV, WMV, MPEG and MP3 (heck, why not offer an audio only option). What's the most practical method of doing this in terms of making feeds with WordPress?

Do I create mirror sites for each file type, burn the feed(s) with feedburner and re-submit all of these mirror sites to the SEs and directories? Or, should I just make mention in each show synopsis that a different type of feed is available and provide the link to same?

[dangercast]

I'm sure there is something else happening with your machine ... iTunes, and Quicktime, do battle for extensions each time they are launched... if they didnt there would be millions of angry people wondering what the heck was going on when the click a video/mp3/aac file...

And, it's even more odd that Windows media would want the m4v extension, as it's only a month or two old, and as far as I know, only used by iTunes and Quicktime.

I recommend going into file types, and re-assign M4V to iTunes.

If iTunes is not prompting you to take the extensions back, then you must have checked the "Never ask again" button in the "iTunes is not the default player" dialog. If the button in the prefs dialog does not restore the defaults, you will need to delete your iTunes prefs.

Sorta major surgery, if thats what you want to do... in addition, iTunes leaves the preferences in place when you uninstall, so that would not clear this issue up. But deleting the prefs would force them to be recreated.

There are two pref files on Windows, one in a hidden folder, I cant remember the exact locations, but if you go to the Apple site I'm sure there is a step by step you can follow.

It may be a false memory, but I installed QT pro about a month or so ago and to my surprise, it didn't automatically associate m4v... which I think it should have. Instead, my m4v files appeared with the Windows Media Player icon (so it was obviously associated with WMP).... but of course, WMP couldn't play these files. Associating it to QT wasn't a problem of course, I just presumed a fresh install of QT PRO would have at least tried to take take over some file associations.

Like you said, it's probably an issue with my computer and not a general issue faced by everybody.

[tipsychicks]

My girlfriend already complains that I spend way too much time on the computer as it is and she thinks my show is dumb.
first, i would like to say i am very disappointed to hear you have a girlfriend. second, i would like to say that i recommend dumping her as she cannot see the value of your super-awesome vidcast. for those of us, like you and me, who are artists, our podcasts are the expression of our very soul. if our life partners find this "dumb" we need to dump them. do it NOW!

Ok, you are convincing me.
what?! did i not just say i want things simple? 13 feeds and 7 formats? isn't it getting crazy? how about we settle for two - one that always works on mac and one that always works on windows? is this possible? let me know because i am an ARTIST - i despise the technical aspects of podcasting. it took me awhile to realize this, but now after this thread i've got it.

and please mention which is the mandarin chinese feed 'cause i'd like to check that out.

[jimk]

I think Jack should pay for everyone's videocast bandwidth and storage space: Then he can demand all the formats he wants.

Do you have any way of knowing that most computers have QT installed? Or are you just assuming that most do? Do you really have any way of knowing on a global level how many machines have QT on them?

Yes. Industry analysts say that quicktime has about an 85% market penetration, Windows media about 90, and Flash about 94. PLus or minus a couple of points, I'm sure that's pretty close to what's out there. Try Google. It can answer questions like this.

#1 vid format for Porn

I'm-a guess you don't really download much video online, Jack...it's ALL DivX and XviD now. I...uhh...heard that from a friend.

Here's a thought: If you don't like the file format...don't subscribe.

And lastly...iTunes does not need to stay memory resident. Not even the helper stub apps need to stay running. Ever.

[dangercast]

My girlfriend already complains that I spend way too much time on the computer as it is and she thinks my show is dumb.
first, i would like to say i am very disappointed to hear you have a girlfriend. second, i would like to say that i recommend dumping her as she cannot see the value of your super-awesome vidcast. for those of us, like you and me, who are artists, our podcasts are the expression of our very soul. if our life partners find this "dumb" we need to dump them. do it NOW!

Ok, you are convincing me.
what?! did i not just say i want things simple? 13 feeds and 7 formats? isn't it getting crazy? how about we settle for two - one that always works on mac and one that always works on windows? is this possible? let me know because i am an ARTIST - i despise the technical aspects of podcasting. it took me awhile to realize this, but now after this thread i've got it.

and please mention which is the mandarin chinese feed 'cause i'd like to check that out.

You think you are dissapointed?!?! What about me? I've tried dumping her numerous times but she always refuses my requests. She's also ticked off that my podcast doesn't make any money and keeps telling me to put up banners for poker sites, etc. I tell her no! I'm an artist! Accepting any financial reward would just morally contaminate the purity of my art. Thank goodness there are people like you who hold similar beliefs. We artists need to stick together and fight the good fight.

I think I am going to have to exorcise the demons that Jack put into my head. He got me all thinking crazy about all of this. I think for now I will just offer mov and wmv.... and possibly an audio-only version (mp3). Don't know if an audio-only version is a good idea though... it's going to deprive people of the majesty which is my big William Shatneresque head.

[dangercast]

I think Jack should pay for everyone's videocast bandwidth and storage space: Then he can demand all the formats he wants.

Do you have any way of knowing that most computers have QT installed? Or are you just assuming that most do? Do you really have any way of knowing on a global level how many machines have QT on them?

Yes. Industry analysts say that quicktime has about an 85% market penetration, Windows media about 90, and Flash about 94. PLus or minus a couple of points, I'm sure that's pretty close to what's out there. Try Google. It can answer questions like this.

#1 vid format for Porn

I'm-a guess you don't really download much video online, Jack...it's ALL DivX and XviD now. I...uhh...heard that from a friend.

Here's a thought: If you don't like the file format...don't subscribe.

And lastly...iTunes does not need to stay memory resident. Not even the helper stub apps need to stay running. Ever.

If the market penetration for QT is that high, almost seems like a waste of time to offer an alternative, especially for lame shows like mine. It will be simpler to just instruct certain Windows people where/how they can download QT.

[kickasspodcast]

Yes. Industry analysts say that quicktime has about an 85% market penetration, Windows media about 90, and Flash about 94. PLus or minus a couple of points, I'm sure that's pretty close to what's out there. Try Google. It can answer questions like this.

Any links? So what you are saying is that QT is actually the least popular? Thanks Jimk. Its been too long.

I'm-a guess you don't really download much video online, Jack...it's ALL DivX and XviD now. I...uhh...heard that from a friend.
you must be one of those guys who downloads the full movie in Divx and watches it all. Sorry for you man. Have fun on the P2P porn network. Free6 ain't enough for ya?

Here's a thought: If you don't like the file format...don't subscribe.
And that will solves lotsa problems, you are such a natural problem solver.

And lastly...iTunes does not need to stay memory resident. Not even the helper stub apps need to stay running. Ever.

Don't you have to download QT along with Itunes or vice versa?
Thought so. You missed the point. Entirely. If I could just use quicktime without ever having to download itunes, I probably would, but the fact that they make me get both? That makes me loathe QT. Plus itunes kinda sucks altogether for lotsa different reasons anyways. ;)

I am not into arguing and bitchin on these forums, not really since I got back from the PME. We missed ya there Jimk.

Its about solving problems and figuring out how to make it better and easier for the user.


I'm late for work, I'm glad some people are beginning to see the insanity in single formats.


BTW Jimk?

Don't you release your show in MP3 AND ACC?

;)

peace out-

Jack

LOTS more to comment on the people who actually wanna discuss this, i'm not saying i'm 1000% right, i'm just 1 user, with a few ideas that I think don't suck.

[tipsychicks]

You think you are dissapointed?!?! What about me? I've tried dumping her numerous times but she always refuses my requests. She's also ticked off that my podcast doesn't make any money and keeps telling me to put up banners for poker sites, etc. I tell her no! I'm an artist! Accepting any financial reward would just morally contaminate the purity of my art. Thank goodness there are people like you who hold similar beliefs. We artists need to stick together and fight the good fight.
amen! i'm SO glad your cast came along - that elitism thread almost took me out of podcasting completely...but now i have DANGERCAST! and what do you care about poker banners anyway? you're a millionaire many times over! you do, however, have a donation button on your site - get rid of that and we'll be SOULMATES.

I think for now I will just offer mov and wmv.... and possibly an audio-only version (mp3). Don't know if an audio-only version is a good idea though... it's going to deprive people of the majesty which is my big William Shatneresque head.
i have no interest in the audio cast. i definitely need to see the head. you know what would be cool? if you got one of those girly cowboy hats bono wears and stuck it on there. not only are they cool, but they hide any balding that might be going on.

Its about solving problems and figuring out how to make it better and easier for the user.
yes, i agree - and the dumb podcaster. you gotta make it easier for me, too. i still want just one format. although this is not exactly my attitude:

Here's a thought: If you don't like the file format...don't subscribe.
what if it's not that i don't like your format, but are too dumb to even know what a format is? what about those listeners? are there such listeners? is everyone who watches a vidcast a geeky sort? i am not. but then again, if my ignorance of file format allowed me to bypass starkcast videos, that might be for the best. so maybe some people should put their vidcasts in the most obscure format available. be elitist. remember i have a mac so make sure it doesn't play on that. although can someone with a windows machine ever be properly called an elitist?

[Version3]

I see some interesting points, and some silly ones, but I don't really have time to get deep into what looks like a pretty good discussion overall.

But I thought I'd help ya out Jack

http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/win.html

Yeah, you may have been there already, but did you notice on the right-hand side, more than halfway down the words "QuickTime Standalone Installer". Most people probably don't either, because Apple isn't making it too easy.

But there is your solution.

Link for the lazy: http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/standalone.html

If you wanted to put your show out only in QT format, you might think about sticking this exact link with a "Get Quicktime" link on your site.



On the file extension discussion, it's been a bit since I installed on a PC (month or two) but QuickTime asks you about file association during install as well, and if you will notice the extension you are talking about is not checked... so even when QT is looking to re-associate extensions, it is not going to include any extension that was not choses to always associate during setup. At least, that's how I remember it being.

[dangercast]

You think you are dissapointed?!?! What about me? I've tried dumping her numerous times but she always refuses my requests. She's also ticked off that my podcast doesn't make any money and keeps telling me to put up banners for poker sites, etc. I tell her no! I'm an artist! Accepting any financial reward would just morally contaminate the purity of my art. Thank goodness there are people like you who hold similar beliefs. We artists need to stick together and fight the good fight.
amen! i'm SO glad your cast came along - that elitism thread almost took me out of podcasting completely...but now i have DANGERCAST! and what do you care about poker banners anyway? you're a millionaire many times over! you do, however, have a donation button on your site - get rid of that and we'll be SOULMATES.

I think for now I will just offer mov and wmv.... and possibly an audio-only version (mp3). Don't know if an audio-only version is a good idea though... it's going to deprive people of the majesty which is my big William Shatneresque head.
i have no interest in the audio cast. i definitely need to see the head. you know what would be cool? if you got one of those girly cowboy hats bono wears and stuck it on there. not only are they cool, but they hide any balding that might be going on.

Its about solving problems and figuring out how to make it better and easier for the user.
yes, i agree - and the dumb podcaster. you gotta make it easier for me, too. i still want just one format. although this is not exactly my attitude:

Here's a thought: If you don't like the file format...don't subscribe.
what if it's not that i don't like your format, but are too dumb to even know what a format is? what about those listeners? are there such listeners? is everyone who watches a vidcast a geeky sort? i am not. but then again, if my ignorance of file format allowed me to bypass starkcast videos, that might be for the best. so maybe some people should put their vidcasts in the most obscure format available. be elitist. remember i have a mac so make sure it doesn't play on that. although can someone with a windows machine ever be properly called an elitist?

I took down that paypal donate button and replaced it with a link to QT. My next computer is going to be an Apple and if my viewers can't bring themselves to download it, then that's their problem. Seriously, QT actually doesn't crash, unlike WMP.

I like your idea of making video available in only the most obscure format possible. That idea so totally rules. I might even invent my own video codec that doesn't work on any known computer. This will be easy for me since I don't know anything about coding or codecs; all I need to do is invent an extension. From now on, DangerCast vidcasts will only be presented in .DC format. So like, if show4.dc doesn't play on your computer, feel free to post about my soon-to-be-elitist podcast. Anybody who doesn't like what I am doing is free to light themselves on fire in protest.

Erica, you rule. 'nuff said.

[tipsychicks]

mine are going to be in the .fu format!

[mental-escher]

Jack - can't handle multiple formats... whaa? Sounds like you need to upgrade your audio and video driver/app toolbox, or codexes, or whatever. Do you really want to restrict creators to one format? Seems unnecissarily dogmatic.

It's not like people watch Vid'casts on their TV. Flash, then QT are the defactor web stds, no? Besides, $Apple$ is not all white shiny sycophants. They do some things very right (multimedia computing, ipod, itunes/music store, etc.). Bite the bullet and get QT.

tipsEtoo2, I do prefer the enhanced .fu2 format btw.

HNY!

[tipsychicks]

tipsEtoo2, I do prefer the enhanced .fu2 format btw.
ha!

[jimk]

Don't you release your show in MP3 AND ACC?

Not once iTunes supported bookmarking MP3. It's a waste of space and bandwidth.

Nice try, Jacko-o.

[frankmcma]

Jack I guess I won't get you to dive into iTunes ;)

iTunes to me is like the theater multiplexes...I love the independent spirit of podcasters, but to reach a huge audience, iTunes is currently one of the biggest. I do several podcasts, and getting into iTunes, and having an iTunes link, is when the audiences started getting into the mega-numbers. We are all working to extend our brand, and keep it profitable, and currently iTunes is a cheap way to do it. Is it perfect? No. Is it the best? Maybe not. I just focused on it because one of my main missions is to grow my audience for all my shows. And plus, when iTunes goes pay (http://www.macnn.com/articles/05/12/27/fee.based.podcasts.coming/), I want to be armed and ready!

Franklin

[tabulator32]

So, what percentage do the podcasters get?

[frankmcma]

Kurt,

Good question...it'll be very interesting to see how it pans out..but its a natural..Apple sets it up and allows you to open a store and they get a cut. They have seen revenue streams from music then videos...selling podcasts should be a no brainer. Won't happen over night but I am sure its coming...

Franklin

[podcastrant.com]

I think Itunes is awesome.

[tabulator32]

I think Itunes is awesome.

I think Itunes is awesome, too.

I'll be looking forward to hearing how Itunes will be venturing into charging for podcasts. Will they continue to carry everyone that signs up or will they be dropping those who don't meet a minimum of subscribers over a certain period of time?

(I know this is simply a rhetorical question right now, but, ya know...)

:P

[Cali]

As far as I understand, it will be up to the individuals to decide whether to charge or not for their podcasts. If that's true, I don't see them dropping anyone that doesn't meet a certain criteria. Who knows...