Podcastercon goes commercial, adios unconference dreams.

[kickasspodcast]

:idea:

Got this today in my newreader from Dave Winer's blog.

http://www.scripting.com/2005/12/26.html#When:4:01:12PM

"I had to cancel my trip to Podcastercon on January 7. A sponsor is doing something fairly commercial with the help of the organizers. As I explained below, the line between commercial and non-commercial is very simple and clear, you can't be almost non-commercial and not open the door for everyone to promote their products. I can't pay my way cross-country, about $2000, to be pitched, and to help draw people to the pitches. I should have seen this coming, but I didn't. I'm sorry if you booked the trip because I was going to be there. I still think a fully non-commercial podcasting conference would be a useful event, but I doubt if we'll ever see one. "

This is really crappy, I kinda thought it was impossible to pull off a podcasting conference anywhere, much less a 'non-destination' area (NC) that was truly in the spirit of what Bloggercon established as far as neoconventionism. Is that another word for unconference? We'll see... anyways, reading this on Winer's blog today kinda set it in stone. I recently was talking to friends and so wanted to make the trek down to see some of my favorite people and really get some work done. I think alot of us got our party on in LA and I'm sure there will be alot of good times in NC but I thought that more could be accomplished that the little to nothing that was accomplished (other than some networking/sales) at the PME. It looks like things are starting to turn a bit more commercial, commercial enough for Mr. Winer not to spend his money to go. I don't blame him. I recently listened to the Bib and Yazz ;) where they were talking about "squidcasting" and the notion of podcasters and podcasting being so insulary as to fail altogether. This was really insightful and it was ironic that I had just heard about them beginning to touch on the need for group thinking on expanding the format and how it assimilates to the masses as opposed to the current spectating and speculation of what Podshow does, what others do, vote for me, all that bullsh_t that really doesn't influence the creation of good media.

I wouldn't be suprised if the whole "pod" thing gets rejected and regurgitated by so many people having grown tiresome of media and advertising over exposure, its likely. I'll already project that within 1 year, pornographic podcasts will not qualify for directory spaces on the major directories. I'm serious. No way in hell is podcasting gonna take off if there isn't strong filters in place, not language filters, but content filters, sorry to project that too, directory owners (imho) will ultimately listen to your show before they list it and that's gonna be huge. Its one thing to have Dawn and Drew talk about sex, its quite another to have the "F_ck your Mother Podcast" or the "I'll make you my sex slave show". Not that there isn't room for this media, there is, on the internet, not on peoples ipods. Nobody takes porn with them, that's the problem with that idea. (imho) Having witnessed the passive acceptance of nazi and child moster podcasts, it will be even more ironic in 1 year (strictly my prediction) when so many groups are cast out from the mainstream and marginalized as the media that they are. This is not to diminish the producers of this kinda media, but frankly, people wanna hear good sh_t. They don't wanna waste their time finding shows, and by grouping inactive and obviously pornographic shows in even the same directory and forums only discourages more people that we'll ever know. It just boggs down peoples' attempts at finding good shows. There are soo many show's I haven't even heard of, part of that is the surplus of obvious garbage and inactive shows. I'd like to see a directory that drops shows if there are no RSS enclosures for 1 week, then implement a auto-resubmission concept that makes it easy to get back in upon reactivation. Could you imagine? It would mean that some parts of the month, people couldn't find my show in some directories, I don't really mind because I obviously hadn't put out a show anyways...

We need smarter directories, with amazon like technology that allows users to be far more influential in what gets featured, start basing things on traffic flow trends instead of a few hundred obsessed fans voting every month. Exposing good podcast media is the best thing we can do for this format.

Well, I've sorta strayed off topic, but its in the spirit of what Winer wrote

"I still think a fully non-commercial podcasting conference would be a useful event, but I doubt if we'll ever see one."

This is so true, the brilliance (imho) of this format is that suddenly you have the evolution of bloggers and people who would never blog because it takes alotta time at the keyboard (and hella research) openly and willingly creating free media content. I can't think of a time in my life that I have seen such an explosion of audio/visual media being created and essentially being syndicated at a financial loss to the producers, its a phenomenon that i've not seen. Its something that is strong enough (with continued education about how easy and fun and great the format is to get involved with) to eventually trump anyones aspirations to widely capitalize on the current advertising/sponsorship business models that are, at this time, in place.

I also got news that my 84 year old grandmother (my only living grandparent) and my mother are planning a visit over the 7th to see me, the wife and the growing belly that holds my little soon-to-be. Can't say I'd pass up the time with the Fam. I am a sullen in hearing the news that the podcastercon isn't gonna to be unconference that it could have been. Hint: next time pick a much better name that doesn't have the word POD in it. AudioBloggerCon maybe? Podcastercon.org takes you to what was supposed to be the non-commercial unconference. Podcastercon.com takes you to the website of the Portable Media Expo in California. Now that was great planning on the url namage right? :roll:

peaceout-

Jack

"the operation timed out when attempting to contact ads.podshow.com"

lol, now thats f'd up for a company with a purely ad/sponsor business model. For the record I got that pop-up window about 8 times during revision.

[ElNacho]

it's no longer sponsor-free? was it?
from what id heard, it was just like a...
Here people, here's a building and a domain name, gather on this day.


as far as the mainstreaming of podcast thingies and directory filters....makes sense.

im scared...it's not too long before there's more than 24 hours of aweesome content released every day

[kickasspodcast]

it's no longer sponsor-free? was it?
from what id heard, it was just like a...
Here people, here's a building and a domain name, gather on this day.

That is what alot of us thought, I was a bit curious of what role sponsors would play, now that Winer posted this, its clear that they are doing something a bit more overt. Its news to me too El Nacho.



im scared...it's not too long before there's more than 24 hours of aweesome content released every day

You are wise beyond your years man, this is so true, its not true right now, this is why you and me, and others can pretty much keep up, won't it be great when b!tchin content is released for free all the time. I can't wait!

Jack

[docsnavely]

I'm sorry if you booked the trip because I was going to be there.

sorry, but for me, this statement stuck out like a sore thumb.....

a little too self concious if you ask me.

[adamc1999]

http://www.podcastercon.org/blog/2005/12/23/62/#comments

[tabulator32]

I went to the link and noticed they received at least one donation from a non-profit organization to help the convention.

I wonder if they should be returning that donation to the non-profit since the convention is now a commercial entity.

[kinkysex]

took a quick look at the blog, couldn't find out - who is this guy?
Just curious. Thanks.

[yaz]

wait! do i have to pay to get into this thing? and if i have to pre-register, where do i go? ****...

[SFEley]

Oh, please. Check your facts, people. Everyone throws up their arms and goes boo-hooing because Dave Winer says "It's a commercial con now!" and nobody bothers to go to the PodcasterCon blog (http://www.podcastercon.org/blog) to see what the facts are?

The deal is this: Brian got about 50 copies of O'Reilly's podcasting book to give away. The books are already in his hands. Because he's very adamant about the con not appearing commercial, however, he's not going to be giving them away at the con. O'Reilly will not be officially mentioned at the con, and the books will not appear there. He's going to give them away after the con is over, at a nearby bookstore.

Got it? Does that sound "commercial" to you? Winer's overreacting. He's fairly rabid on these issues, and he's also got a known grudge with O'Reilly. His blog didn't state all the facts.

Sheesh, you've all got the same Web browsers I do. You could have verified this from the source, same as I did, before launching off on rants and the clucking of tongues.

And Yaz, it's free (http://www.podcastercon.org). Sheesh.

[kickasspodcast]

Oh, please. Check your facts, people. Everyone throws up their arms and goes boo-hooing because Dave Winer says "It's a commercial con now!" and nobody bothers to go to the PodcasterCon blog (http://www.podcastercon.org/blog) to see what the facts are?

The deal is this: Brian got about 50 copies of O'Reilly's podcasting book to give away. The books are already in his hands. Because he's very adamant about the con not appearing commercial, however, he's not going to be giving them away at the con. O'Reilly will not be officially mentioned at the con, and the books will not appear there. He's going to give them away after the con is over, at a nearby bookstore.

Got it? Does that sound "commercial" to you? Winer's overreacting. He's fairly rabid on these issues, and he's also got a known grudge with O'Reilly. His blog didn't state all the facts.

Sheesh, you've all got the same Web browsers I do. You could have verified this from the source, same as I did, before launching off on rants and the clucking of tongues.

And Yaz, it's free (http://www.podcastercon.org). Sheesh.

Steve,
What facts are you going on?
Not only is it a bit inane to suggest that people did not go to the podcastercon.org (BTW THERE ARE 2 PODCASTER CONS- ITS THE DUMBEST THING IN THE WORLD, BUT THERE ARE; ONE IS .COM THE OTHER IS .ORG) blog, its kinda insulting. I for one went to the blog, I'm glad that Adam posted the link to the blog so that people could participate in that discussion also. To suggest that we didn't go there but you did, or that we can all just expect Brian to be doing the right and noble thing, thats even more naive man. None of us (well alot of us) ever heard of Brian, all of us, owe alot to Dave Winer.

People take his word on stuff, when I went and read, on the podcastercon.org blog, it says no swag. Now I find out books are gonna be given away in tangent with the event, exploitation by proxy, enough to cast a doubt over the whole process.

The 1st thing I noticed, the announcement about giving swag away was made just 2 weeks before the event. Bullsh!t, after months and months of being billed as a no give-a-way conference, 2 weeks before the action they decide to drop this bomb? If its no big deal, why wait until its basically too late for people to back out (without loosing $$$)That is shady as hell. What did O'reilly just wait to the last minute to decide? Doubt it. I'd be pissed if I had bought my tickets as I know Dave did. Alot of people, including myself, strongly considered going to this event because of visionaries like Winer being part of the process. Its the same reason Tim B. wanted Curry to speak at the PME. To get people there, this is why Winer's early support was so critical. I had people emailing me, knowing I probably couldn't afford to make the trip to NC, saying 'David Winer is there, so I know you'll be there!', this is basically true, I'd love to be part of an open forum with someone of that insight, especially someone representing the OPML side of things, something I think that we will all be very intimate with over the next year.

To give things away after the event at a nearby bookstore is capitalizing on the traffic generated by the unconference. Is it not? Or is O'reilly only doing it out of the goodness of their hearts? Don't think business do that too much, especially publishers. Its exploiting traffic. I can't exploit traffic on my website and play trade-safe music. Not even a little bit, i'd get sued.

Its a bit agrovating that you'd 1st accuse us all of not reading the blog, after Mr. Curry was so helpful in posting the link (not that some of us didn't read it before that) but the fact that you retell a story that we could all read for ourselves, borders on insulting. Why would we think that there are facts on a blog anyways? As if we are all to believe anyone who says "about 50 books". So is it 50 or 48 or 54? or 74? Why even say the word "about"? I picked up on that as well and noticed its shadiness right away.

Verified this from the source? What source? A blog? I'm leary of anyone who uses a single blog to verify anything. I read on Scripting that they are now giving swag away, I verify this on the podcastercon.ORG blog. That is the only verification I needed. Now I have 2 unrelated blogs telling me the same thing, that is verification, believing what an event organizer says as gospel, well, that's just naive.

There is no reason for the frustration or resentment in how people react to this. I have seen this very sort of exploitation by proxy at 100's of concerts and festivals I've attended. You go to a show, say, The Allman Brothers Band, at that show, you hear people talking and passing out flyers for another band doing a free aftershow at a bar 2 miles away. Its really simple, you get alot of people into podcasting to come to your area, then you decide take advantage of that. Exploiting traffic, cut and dried.

You can't even dip your big toe into giving stuff away, especially at a location where it could easily be hijacked by commercialism, its even worse to do it at a bookstore because its not under the watch or wifi of people in attendence of podcastercon itself. The only thing that should be given away is Wifi, food, and cold drinks. Not a book by some guy I swear doesn't even have a podcast. Who the hell would buy a book on podcasting by a guy that doesn't have a podcast? If he does, i'll stand corrected but its not in his CV.

And ultimately, this is the nail in the coffin for me:

Why would Brian put a purchase link up on his blog to direct people to buy the book he plans on giving away? Did you think of that? The "Podcasting Hacks" link on that blog takes you right to a page that says "add to cart". Now if that doesn't give any of us reason to react, i don't know what would.

There’s a link to buy a product in the same post that says ‘we don’t wanna promote products at this conference’. Does anyone think that isn’t entirely hypocritical?

Jack

[podcastrant.com]

I can't believe this is even an issue. Most of the people going are podcasters. We are not going to buy a book to tell us how to podcast.

yawn.

[yaz]

And Yaz, it's free (http://www.podcastercon.org). Sheesh.
hey buddy, don't be gettin rude...i guess you don't know that i don't read about any of this shite...why read about it when people will answer my questions...

**** jack types alot...

[cdoelle]

It sure looks like the non-commercial aspect is gone. Sure, it was a gray line they crossed, but for the purposes of argument - the DID cross it.

Do I think it changes the value of the conference? No way. I still trust that it will be a great collection of podcasters and as Jack alluded, there will be some REAL stuff ironed out that has nothing to do with the conference.

Sure, there will be some partying, but like Jack - I too was hoping for an opportunity to get down to the brass tacks a bit more... some free books shouldn't change that.

Do I see any of the "sessions" as must-see? Not at all... to me it was always about meetings with other podcasters.

Am I upset that both Dave Winer and Jack will not be attending? Hell yeah, sitting down with Dave & Jack were the two biggest reasons I was going.

I am going to have to give the whole thing a lot of thought in the next couple days.

[SFEley]

And ultimately, this is the nail in the coffin for me:

Why would Brian put a purchase link up on his blog to direct people to buy the book he plans on giving away?
That's the "nail in the coffin" for you? Ye flippin' gods. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you go to the PME? That was a highly commercial, profit-making event. I don't say that to malign it; it sounds like everyone had a great time, and I'm glad the Bourquins -- who are professional event organizers -- succeeded at their goals. But you'd boycott this one organized on a shoestring by a small-time hobbyist in North Carolina because somebody sent him a box of books?

I really wish somebody could explain to me, clearly and without another long vapid screed, what the problem is here. Yes, you have every right to decide which events you attend and which you don't attend, for any reason you wish. I'm not questioning your freedom here, or Dave Winer's, or anybody else's. Simply your judgment. It seems to me that to loudly boycott a free community event that you otherwise had plans to attend, because somebody's giving away books across the street, is a pretty bloody stupid reason.

[monkey_one]

nerger ferm gerner pada per padowansucks perwog iamadoctordammitnotapodcaster ewok sucaon gerfart fuu

[kickasspodcast]

1st let me say, many thanks C-Doelle. you are truly the man. The Podcast Christmas Carol was really a treat, awesome production. Haven't gotten around to thanking you for that. I have been writing/theorizing an aweful lot and alot of that has you in mind. I also agree that this issue won't really affect what progress people can make from attending. I wouldn't discourage anyone to go based on this.


Why would Brian put a purchase link up on his blog to direct people to buy the book he plans on giving away?

That's the "nail in the coffin" for you? Ye flippin' gods. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you go to the PME? That was a highly commercial, profit-making event. I don't say that to malign it; it sounds like everyone had a great time, and I'm glad the Bourquins -- who are professional event organizers -- succeeded at their goals. But you'd boycott this one organized on a shoestring by a small-time hobbyist in North Carolina because somebody sent him a box of books?

I have no idea why someone who says they don't wanna promote a product would put a link to buy that product. It makes absolutely no sense to me if you are indeed not trying to promote a product. He's only giving ~50 books away, I'm sure O'reilly wants to sell alot more, having a link to their product is sure to get some takers.

I wouldn't boycott something because its commercial. I listen to commercial podcasts, I go see concerts at venues that are plastered with commercials from the restroom to the bigscreen.

I wouldn't encourage anyone else to boycott this event either. Yes, I did attend the PME, it was a pretty traditional conference from its conception, sponsors, booths, the works. From day 1 it was billed as that. There is a huge difference in an event that is initially promoted as entirely unconference and non commercial and absent of sponsor swag. Now, 2 weeks before to announce and post a link to a product on the .org blog its a bit of a suprise. The thing says unconference, no swag, not promoting any products. We have swag, we have links so people can buy products on the blog. Hmm...

I really wish somebody could explain to me, clearly and without another long vapid screed, what the problem is here. Yes, you have every right to decide which events you attend and which you don't attend, for any reason you wish. I'm not questioning your freedom here, or Dave Winer's, or anybody else's. Simply your judgment. It seems to me that to loudly boycott a free community event that you otherwise had plans to attend, because somebody's giving away books across the street, is a pretty bloody stupid reason.

I have to make this clear, I am not boycotting this event, nor would I dream of suggesting that others boycott either. The problem is not O'reilly going and holding an event at a bookstore to give away their product, the problem is Brian actually orchestrating that himself on behalf of the sponsor. Then he calls it a compromise. You can't do that at an unconference (IMHO), you have to set your rules, say no thanks, and be firm. Otherwise everyone will wanna piece. What is to stop people from handing out swag at the event? Security? If it becomes ok to do it outside the doors (where people smoke and gather), how far is it from creeping inside? Sponsors will be thanked and greatly appreciated and remembered for making good things happen, they can't however, expect anything else in return.

You read what Winer wrote in response to some of the posts over on the podcastercon.org blog, I think, he says it well.

There is a place for commercialism in podcasting (duh!) but there is also a need for a vacuum where its not welcomed or needed.


Not to mention the book is surely worthless since:

A: As Chad said, the attendees already know what their doing
B: The guy who wrote it apperently never even had a podcast, yet he's writing books on how to podcast. Hmmm....

And all this time I was looking forward to crashing on the floor at la casa de' Rant.

Jack

[podcastrant.com]

You will be missed man. I was looking forward to meeting you. The invitation is always open.

[ElNacho]

****it people! you're postin faster than i can read or respond! especially u jack. u need to stik ur fingers in an icey water bucket for awhile, that'll slow u down
i skipped through your last post a bit...
you need to go to ur local bookstore and buy the book, "Who moved my cheese." My dad read it. It tells you how to deal with changes.


dude just because something was advertised as something, but now it's not...doesn't change the value. go anyways, it'll be the same experience. just dont click any sponsor links or go to the whatever nextdoor, if you want it to seem un-sponsored. not that it would make a difference.
you're going there to chill wit ur podcastin homies, not bathe in sponsorlessness

[SFEley]

You can call it what you like. I don't care if you're boycotting, or simply not attending, or giving up podcast conventions for Lent. You can call the event an unconference, an uncola, an unclear proliferation. It doesn't matter; it's all semantics.

What bugs me isn't the semantics. It's that Dave Winer overreacted to the pettiest possible manifestation of the most ridiculous point of principle of his own arbitrary definition of an "unconference," and now various acolytes here and on the Yahoo! list with no stake in the event whatsoever are lining up to give it a bad name. This cheapens months of really hard and dedicated work from people who really believed in this idea -- and for what? So that you people who aren't going can get self-righteous about a box of freakin' books.

At this point I hope Brian does return the books, or donates them to local library systems, or something else that'll shut this controversy up. Not because I care whether they're there or not, but because the event's just too cool to be tainted over them by pompous windbags who didn't put in any of the work and never cared about it in the first place.

That's my opinion. To those of you who are going, I look forward to meeting you all and having a great time. The rest of you -- seriously -- why do you care?

[tabulator32]

One possible factor is all of the other people that would have loved to have swag ready to pass out if they knoew it would be allowed. If I didn't have marketing material to distribute because it wasn't allowed and everyone else start passing stuff out, I'd be irritated.

On the other hand, I guess I would have just passed it out across the street.

8)

[kcrockett]

In the words of Artie Lang, WAAAA! who cares. If you want to go then go. If you don't then don't. Why do people have to be so nit picky about these confrences people were acting somewhat the same with PME.

[PaulofCthulhu]

I'd like to see a directory that drops shows if there are no RSS enclosures for 1 week

We'd be in trouble, we only put out a show monthly. ;)

Not to mention the book is surely worthless since:

A: As Chad said, the attendees already know what their doing
B: The guy who wrote it apperently never even had a podcast, yet he's writing books on how to podcast. Hmmm....

I've got it, read it cover-to-cover and it's the best podcasting book out there by far (I have purchased and read several). I've been podcasting on a variety of shows since October 2004 (and doing internet audio a lot longer), it taught me enough to make the cover price more than worth it. If I were to recommend one book on podcasting, it would be the O'Reilly one. It is written by several people not a single author.

So not worthless in my opinion. Not perfect, but the best there is right now.

Paul

[PaulofCthulhu]

- and if I organised a Podcast Convention it would be as commercial as all hell. Bring on the dancing troupe! :D

I would expect attendees to exert their critical faculties in sorting out the content from the marketing, while getting swag and hearing about new offerings and services.

To chop & change at the last minute seems somewhat naughty if advertised as something else, but if it's books handed out at a store over the street (and not the Con), seems a little over-reactive to me. From all the bru-hah, surely just send the books back?

Paul

[tabulator32]

Its inevitable, really. if you think about it.

Anything thats cool draws crowds. Anything that draws crowds on a regular basis draws commercialism.

Turth be known, if I were ever to organize or invest in a convention for ANYTHING, I would never PROMISE that it would be uncommercialized.

I think promising that the con would not be commercial and not have swag , etc. were bold strokes that are awfully hard to live up to when hosting a convention.

[kickasspodcast]

We'd be in trouble, we only put out a show monthly. ;)

Yes, and there would be special areas within the directory or another directory altogether that would include infrequent/monthly/bi monthly/semi annual podcasts. The idea is to make it VERY easy for new users to find good current content in the area of their interest. Its not perfect, but totally tweakable. ;)



I've got it, read it cover-to-cover and it's the best podcasting book out there by far (I have purchased and read several). I've been podcasting on a variety of shows since October 2004 (and doing internet audio a lot longer), it taught me enough to make the cover price more than worth it. If I were to recommend one book on podcasting, it would be the O'Reilly one. It is written by several people not a single author

So not worthless in my opinion. Not perfect, but the best there is right now.

Paul

I stand corrected on one thing, I guess Mr. Herrington does have a podcast, even though I couldn't any mention of him on the Book Review. It says in the Podcasting hacks that his website spawned a podcast and that the book was a result.

Truth be told, I read almost the entire "podcasting hacks" book for free last night thanks to a big freakin hole in google books, I was not impressed at all. Its nothing you couldn't get for free from several podcasts. The writing itself was absolutely banal and insipid and mechanical in all ways. No emotion or feel. I'm glad you liked it, but you can get all that information for free in much better ways. Why learn how to podcast from a book when there are actual podcasts that tell you the same and more, plus they don't give shameless shouts out to shows that maybe ok, but maybe sub par.

I really didn't like how he directed people to certain websites for hosting and podcast services. I have no way of knowing if thats the truth, or if its just a paid endorsement.

If I were to suggest "how to podcast", I'd point people in the direction of Podcast411 and shows like it who give entirely thorough information without charging a dime. Plus Rob is the miggity man, What else can I say? He does a great service to all.

Did you really think the writing was good? I thought it was text book bad. I know its a how-to but come on! ;)


Peaceout-

Jack

PS:
Here is how to read most of the Hacks' series for free. Not that they have any actual hacks (poorly titled), its just a very simple how-to. With too much technical info for newbs. You can read alot of other books for free too, for now.
http://www.micropersuasion.com/2005/12/read_most_of_or.html

[PaulofCthulhu]

On a personal note, I read a lot of text books; I like text books. :) Information is what I'm after rather than story-driven articles.

The writing itself was absolutely banal and insipid and mechanical in all ways. No emotion or feel.

Ahhh, but that's what I want! I don't want to see an author's personality stamped on a text book. I want efficiently delivered usable information. Textbooks (non-linear, dip in-and-out) are better than podcasts (linear 1:1 listening, maybe find right content, perhaps, with decent AAC bookmarking). Podcasts score on being able to hear the results of sound quality experimentation (if they bother to include that) and being free (once you've found them).

With a text book I can find the information I want straight away, without hunting down podcasts across the net, listening to them and then ploughing through Show Notes (if they have them) of where to find the things they talk about. No internet connection (or batteries) required for that research. I can read it on the bus, or on a plane to Hungary (should I choose) and it's all in one place.

As I mentioned, it's not without fault, but in my opinion it's the best of any of the current books on podcasting as it provides a lot of usable information. If you want to hunt stuff down on the web, that's fine too, horses for courses, but if you want a one-stop paper book, this is a good one in my opinion.

Ultimately I would suggest people check it out for themselves and browse it in a bookshop (or elsewhere) and ignore what I or Amazon Reviews of the book (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0596100663/102-4449796-8858564?v=glance&n=283155) say about it. ;)

[podcastrant.com]

Just got back form the PodcasterCon last night. Great conference. Where they gave the books away was at the Internationalist. It is a volunteer run collective, a not-for-profit bookstore, a progressive community center, and a community owned cooperative in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. You can find out more about them at the link below:

http://www.internationalistbooks.org/

This store is a political based one that has no other computer or O'Reilly published books inside it or anywhere near it. The fact that so much was made about the giving away of Podcasting Hacks saying that it tainted the spirit of the conference is sad, unfounded and petty.

People who keep themselves away from something and bitch about it instead of going and then forming an opinion are fundamentalist pedantics.

Lemmings of the world unite! Fall off a cliff.

PS...This is not directed at Jack. Jack and I talk from time to time and Winer's decision wasn't the reason he didn't go. I just wanted to make that crystal clear.

[cdoelle]

I agree, the book wasn't even a factor in the convention... and besides - it isn't even that good of a book... what it lists as the "perennial favorites" of podcasting are not even close to representative.

[SFEley]

I'm not going to talk about the books again. No one who was there cared. Those who weren't there missed a fantastic time and some tremendously cool conversations between podcasters of all perspectives and experience levels. It was a really, really fun day, well worth twelve hours of driving, and I can't wait for PodcasterCon 2007.

(Which will probably be a two-day event, it sounds like -- but will certainly be free again, and will hopefully have the same energy and atmosphere.)

[podcastrant.com]

Sorry I didn't say hey Stephen. I saw you a couple of times but you were in a crowd and I'm weird about interrupting people's conversations. I know it's silly but oh well.

[kickasspodcast]

I wish Chad would pm me back, I hope that C-Dogg liked the weblog, I wish I could have been at podcastercon quite a bit, I can only imagine what I missed, or can I?

[SFEley]

Sorry I didn't say hey Stephen. I saw you a couple of times but you were in a crowd and I'm weird about interrupting people's conversations. I know it's silly but oh well.
I'm sorry about that too -- next time tap me on the shoulder or something! I'd love to say hi to you. If I'd recognized you I would have, but I don't know your real name.