How to Count Podcast downloads?

[wkress]

I just spent a day installing and testing UniCounter, great free-ware software for counting downloads, EXCEPT it doesn't work with iTunes. It worked fine with Juice.

So, I'm back to start ... anyone got a solution for counting the podcast downloads when your listeners subscribe through an XML file?

Warren
WKress@compuserve.com

[SFEley]

So, I'm back to start ... anyone got a solution for counting the podcast downloads when your listeners subscribe through an XML file?

The most authoritative way is to look at your Web server logs. If you're using decent Web hosting, your host should give you access to your own logs. Odds are good they've already got one of several programs (AWStats, Webalizer, etc.) installed to help you analyze those logs, too. If not, you could install those programs yourself on your Web space, or use a custom tool to count MP3 files. (Do a Google on "Podstats" for a fairly popular Perl script to do this.)

Somewhat simpler, but less under your control, would be to use Podtrac's (http://www.podtrac.com) new third-party measurement tool. You won't get the same granularity from their service, and it takes a good while before you'll see stats at all, but I see no reason why their numbers wouldn't be complete from the point you start using it.

[kolcast]

We use Libsyn, ans it has a stats page, so it says how many people downloaded the file or got it off of their subscription to the RSS feed.

[crybabyemokids]

Libsyn isn't reliable.
If you put a pickle player on your website and say someone comes across your site for 5 seconds and goes back, it counts as a download as pickle player is automatically downloading that file for the user.

But that would be only Direct Downloads, Subscription wise I presume Libsyn would be accurate, as noone would subscribe for half your show ;)

Jay

[SFEley]

Libsyn isn't reliable.
If you put a pickle player on your website and say someone comes across your site for 5 seconds and goes back, it counts as a download as pickle player is automatically downloading that file for the user.
How is that a problem with LibSyn? Any Web server anywhere would log that correctly as a hit on the file. If you don't want to see it logged, don't use a flash player that downloads files in the background. That's where your 'problem' is. (If you really want to consider it a problem.)

There are valid reasons to criticize LibSyn, but this isn't one of them.

[etomorrow]

Libsyn isn't reliable.
If you put a pickle player on your website and say someone comes across your site for 5 seconds and goes back, it counts as a download as pickle player is automatically downloading that file for the user.
How is that a problem with LibSyn? Any Web server anywhere would log that correctly as a hit on the file. If you don't want to see it logged, don't use a flash player that downloads files in the background. That's where your 'problem' is. (If you really want to consider it a problem.)

There are valid reasons to criticize LibSyn, but this isn't one of them.


i'd call that a problem. it's downloading a show that may or may not get listened to. so it's wasting bandwidth. but i guess that isn't a big deal to some people.

here is what i use to count downloads, it might be a little outdated, but it works.

http://www.learningwithtoys.com/images2/493%20Melissa%20And%20Doug%20Lights%20Camera%20Int eraction%20Wooden%20Abacus.jpg

[SFEley]

i'd call that a problem. it's downloading a show that may or may not get listened to. so it's wasting bandwidth. but i guess that isn't a big deal to some people.
You're absolutely right. If you're using LibSyn, which is what CBEK was complaining about, then bandwidth isn't a big deal for you, because LibSyn does not charge for bandwidth. They charge for the amount you upload in a month, not for downloads. Go read about it. (http://www.libsyn.com)

Even if you aren't using LibSyn, your gripe isn't with your Web host or with the statistics. It's with the Flash player you elected to use. If you find it grievously annoying that that Flash player might present your content to someone who might not listen, stop using it. Easy.

Even better, don't upload your files anywhere. That's the only way to prevent needless bandwidth usage. No matter what you do, if you put a podcast file up on the Web, you will always have more downloads than human listens. Always. People's podcatchers will go haywire, or people will mean to come back to it later and never will, or forget they were subscribed, or download you on five machines and only listen to you on one. That's not a flaw in LibSyn, or Pickle Player, or your podcast. It's the way of the world. Wasted bandwidth happens. These are not the perfect harmonies of heaven.

And if it raises your blood pressure to think of all those bytes slipping out through your pipe unheeded, I'd suggest you either go to one of the several unlimited bandwidth solutions out there (at least two of which are free), or trust in your own Web hosting's bandwidth limits, or forget about podcasting and take up a more relaxing hobby. I hear golf is nice.

Unless, of course, you lose too many golf balls.

[crybabyemokids]

Libsyn isn't reliable.
If you put a pickle player on your website and say someone comes across your site for 5 seconds and goes back, it counts as a download as pickle player is automatically downloading that file for the user.
How is that a problem with LibSyn? Any Web server anywhere would log that correctly as a hit on the file. If you don't want to see it logged, don't use a flash player that downloads files in the background. That's where your 'problem' is. (If you really want to consider it a problem.)

There are valid reasons to criticize LibSyn, but this isn't one of them.


First off, I wasn't critisizing LibSyn. I'm quite happy with Libsyn in fact.
I totally agree with you that any server would report it as a hit, but then again, you should look at the title of the thread 'How to count Podcast download'. Agreed, there is no 100% foolproof method of coming up with the exact figure of downloads, as discussed in another thread, but there are other alternatives that provide more accurate details.

I was just pointing out to kolcast that Libsyn stat's aren't accurate, or well, accurate enough.

Jesus SFEley, you come off real aggresive in your posts. Calm down a bit man, we're here to help.

Jay.

[etomorrow]

i'd call that a problem. it's downloading a show that may or may not get listened to. so it's wasting bandwidth. but i guess that isn't a big deal to some people.
You're absolutely right. If you're using LibSyn, which is what CBEK was complaining about, then bandwidth isn't a big deal for you, because LibSyn does not charge for bandwidth. They charge for the amount you upload in a month, not for downloads. Go read about it. (http://www.libsyn.com)

Even if you aren't using LibSyn, your gripe isn't with your Web host or with the statistics. It's with the Flash player you elected to use. If you find it grievously annoying that that Flash player might present your content to someone who might not listen, stop using it. Easy.

Even better, don't upload your files anywhere. That's the only way to prevent needless bandwidth usage. No matter what you do, if you put a podcast file up on the Web, you will always have more downloads than human listens. Always. People's podcatchers will go haywire, or people will mean to come back to it later and never will, or forget they were subscribed, or download you on five machines and only listen to you on one. That's not a flaw in LibSyn, or Pickle Player, or your podcast. It's the way of the world. Wasted bandwidth happens. These are not the perfect harmonies of heaven.

And if it raises your blood pressure to think of all those bytes slipping out through your pipe unheeded, I'd suggest you either go to one of the several unlimited bandwidth solutions out there (at least two of which are free), or trust in your own Web hosting's bandwidth limits, or forget about podcasting and take up a more relaxing hobby. I hear golf is nice.

Unless, of course, you lose too many golf balls.

don't you worry about my pipe.
those "unlimited bandwidth" hosting places are the first to "lose" your files when you get a serious draw on your bandwidth.

i don't use those players. because i find it totally annoying when you load someone's website and it just starts playing. so i won't use it for mine.
i don't give a **** if anyone else does.

there is a reason i am watching bandwidth, a completely valid reason. and i won't be explaining it to you.
there is no such thing as an unlimited bandwith host. they may claim that, but they have to pay for their bandwidth too, and they will drop you if your transfer rates go through the roof.
but believe what you want.

and for the record, golf is for pussies.

[roadrageradio]

i'd call that a problem. it's downloading a show that may or may not get listened to. so it's wasting bandwidth. but i guess that isn't a big deal to some people.

Why is that "problem" any different with direct downloads vs subscribers? Subscribers could also elect not to listen, or listen for 30 seconds and then stop, or whatever they want.

You have no way of knowing whether anyone has listened all the way through to the end of your show.

Magazines don't know how much of their material gets read, either, but they count subscriptions and newsstand sales as "circulation."

[etomorrow]

i'd call that a problem. it's downloading a show that may or may not get listened to. so it's wasting bandwidth. but i guess that isn't a big deal to some people.

Why is that "problem" any different with direct downloads vs subscribers? Subscribers could also elect not to listen, or listen for 30 seconds and then stop, or whatever they want.

You have no way of knowing whether anyone has listened all the way through to the end of your show.

Magazines don't know how much of their material gets read, either, but they count subscriptions and newsstand sales as "circulation."

while that is true, a flash player totally skews your numbers. that was my only point. like i said, it doesn't matter to me if someone else chooses to use a flash player.

[SFEley]

Jesus SFEley, you come off real aggresive in your posts. Calm down a bit man, we're here to help.
Sorry. Rough morning, long day ahead, nothing to do with here. I didn't mean to get as snippy as I did, and I apologize for that, to you and to eTomorrow.

But please, clarity is important. When you say "LibSyn isn't reliable," that statement can very easily be taken out of context, and even in context it creates a negative impression over something that isn't a problem with LibSyn. Their stats are fully reliable: they do exactly what they are intended to do. The real objection here is that what they measure isn't the magic number that everybody wants to know, which is "How many human listeners do I have?"

Short of omniscience, there is no way to get that number. It's all guesswork, to greater or lesser degrees. I'm not a shill for LibSyn -- in fact I'm not even a customer anymore, for reasons that have nothing to do with this -- but I think they're a great value for a starting podcaster and one of the easiest ways to get up to speed, and I'd hate to see people turned away from them because of a simple ambiguous statement. It doesn't justify the harshness of my tone, but that's why I objected.

[etomorrow]

Jesus SFEley, you come off real aggresive in your posts. Calm down a bit man, we're here to help.
Sorry. Rough morning, long day ahead, nothing to do with here. I didn't mean to get as snippy as I did, and I apologize for that, to you and to eTomorrow.


no need to apologize. it's what forums are for. they weren't personal attacks, so it's all cool with me.

[tsidock]

Libsyn isn't reliable.
If you put a pickle player on your website and say someone comes across your site for 5 seconds and goes back, it counts as a download as pickle player is automatically downloading that file for the user.

But that would be only Direct Downloads, Subscription wise I presume Libsyn would be accurate, as noone would subscribe for half your show ;)

Jay

Simply not true.

They have had some delayed logs in the past. Always repaired and accurate.

Tom

[WyethDigital]

I think someone said the "magic" word. Maybe instead of trying to gauge listeners, people should count circulation. That doesn't help you tell sponsors what your popular segments are in any kind of measurable way, but then again, as pointed out earlier, magazines and Newspapers can't tell you how many people look at an individual ad, either. People keep applying a radio/TV logic to tracking listenership. Maybe periodical publishing would be a better model.

As with Newspapers, Yellow Pages ads, magazines, and the like, there are certain things advertisers look for, chief among them, position in the publication. The closer to the front, the more likely it is to be noticed. The same thing would seem to be true for Podcasts. If someone starts listening to a 30 minute show, but decides to tune out after five minutes (a very reasonable possibility), an advertiser is likely to feel better about being at the top of the 'cast than the bottom of it. Of course, you can't run all your ads in the front of the cast, or people will get pissed and stop listening entirely. The trick it would seem, is to produce a consistent program, and tell your listeners a popular feature, discussion, etc is at the bottom of your 'cast (in order to encourage them to listen/watch 'til the end). Think of it as teaser, or a climax.

Just a thought.

Eric

[Steve Pinder]

Feedburner will count circulation, but is also gets hit by aggrigators.
The best way I have been able to count downloads is through webalizer.
It gives me the url for my top 10 shows individually and shows the number of hits they each have.
It's not effected by aggrigator hits on the RSS.

Steve Pinder
www.karatekast.com

[beatfreax]

Feedburner will count circulation, but is also gets hit by aggrigators.
The best way I have been able to count downloads is through webalizer.
It gives me the url for my top 10 shows individually and shows the number of hits they each have.
It's not effected by aggrigator hits on the RSS.

Steve Pinder
www.karatekast.com

Just yesterday I have access to another (better) way of counting my downloads, and I was almost shocked. The actual difference between my so-called feedburner suscribers and the amount of downloads was like 3:1. Sure some people choose not to download certain shows, but this just looks like a Feedburner-flaw to me :?

[SFEley]

Just yesterday I have access to another (better) way of counting my downloads, and I was almost shocked. The actual difference between my so-called feedburner suscribers and the amount of downloads was like 3:1. Sure some people choose not to download certain shows, but this just looks like a Feedburner-flaw to me :?
It's not.