PodShow Podcast Network

[tWW]

Does anyone know how shows are considered
for the PodShow Podcast Network?

It's obviously affiliated with the Alley...
is it just featuring the top rated shows?

[podcastrant.com]

No it's not the top rated. How many top rated alley shows are in the podshow network? 1?

Adam has talked about the "undition" or something like that. It will be a place where you can send in "auditions" or clips from your show and the podshow will review it for inclusion into the network.

If PDub is reading this, he can give us a more detailed run through.

[SteveRunner]

Also of interest (and related to this thread) is: “What advantage, if any, is there in being a member of the PodShow network (or any other network for that matter)?”

Do members enjoy some financial reward?

Do PodCasts that are accepted guaranteed millions of new listeners somehow?

Is this simply another PodCast group? (I’m a member of the New England PodCasting group), or is it a business entity similar to terrestrial broadcasting?

Inquiring minds want to know

- Steve

[podcastrant.com]

Well you get a slot on Sirius satellite radio. There's millions of subscribers to that. Whether they'll hear your show is another thing.

Since I'm not affiliated with PodShow I'm going off of the few things Adam has said on his show and what you hear, here and there. I think that Drew and The Rock n Roll Geek have been able to quit their day jobs. I'm not sure about PDub, Big Mike, CC Chapman, Tartan Podcast and the rest.

They post on here so hopefully they will give you some insight.

[pwfenton]

No it's not the top rated. How many top rated alley shows are in the podshow network? 1?

Adam has talked about the "undition" or something like that. It will be a place where you can send in "auditions" or clips from your show and the podshow will review it for inclusion into the network.

If PDub is reading this, he can give us a more detailed run through.

Actually I can't. It may appear that I am an "insider", but outside of my narrow function as producer of the Sirius show, I'm rather out of the loop. In fact I usually find out more about what is going on by listening to the DSC. That said, from what I've heard Adam explain, it seems to me that the "undition" will be the opposite of what you describe. I believe that it will be a situation where advertisers... will be auditioning their pitches for podcasters. Advertisers will say... here's what I want to advertise. Here's how I want to do it. Here's what I will pay (based on circulation I would assume)... and then podcasters would select an offer that they feel fits what they want to do. I think the "undition" is about connecting podcasters with advertisers, rather than a means to select podcasts to be part of the Podshow Network.

Mind you, I am speculating here, but this is what I think the undition is going to be like. I'm basing this on various things Adam has said in public.

[SteveRunner]

Well you get a slot on Sirius satellite radio. There's millions of subscribers to that. Whether they'll hear your show is another thing.

That's pretty interesting too, but raises two other interesting questions:

1. How effective is being played on Sirius towards increasing the number of subscribers to your PodCast?

and

2. How many new listeners actually listen to the Sirius PodCast show?

Again, just curious...seems like a good thing, but not sure of the significance.

[podcastrant.com]

I can only speak for myself but I first found out about podcasting from Adam's Sirius show when it started back in may or june. Since then I subscribe to 60+ podcasts and for the most part keep up with all of them and participate with the show via emails, voicemails, etc.

I feel that Sirius is very valuable because if it brought one person (me) into the fold, it probably brought a lot more.

[SteveRunner]

I feel that Sirius is very valuable because if it brought one person (me) into the fold, it probably brought a lot more.

That's an excellent point, well taken.

But that's kind of an expensive solution towards increasing listener ship isn't it? I mean, with the equipment and financial investments involved in maintaining the Sirius service, isn’t the cost per new listener incredibly expensive?

Are there numbers to support the success of a PodCast being played on a satellite radio network?

Has Sirius reaped financial success because of PodCast programming?

Is XM-Radio planning to take advantage of this success by playing PodCasts on their service?

I suspect that the answer to these questions must be a resounding “YES”, and that someone can produce proof that listenership to PodCasts have increased due to PodCasts on Sirius, but it would seem to this uninformed PodCast listener that radio of any kind (terrestrial or satellite) would be the last place the typical listener would turn to listen to a PodCast.

I expect that I’m wrong, and this is only my uneducated opinion…but I’d assume that if Sirius brought you in as a PodCast subscriber, there must be hundreds…maybe thousands of others like you, and maybe that’s a positive return on the investment?

I guess?

[AaronfromQC]

Well thank you for the information PW, but I find one thing interesting. Notice how the undition isn't an attempt to bring in the most talented podcasters out there, it's just another attempt to do what everyone else is doing out there. Perhaps if Adam was at the keynotes in Ontario he would have caught something on day one, TALENT is the business model that will work. It won't be long before Google and Yahoo decide they too want to bring advertisers and podcasters together, when that happens Adam's undition will become another fleeting thought. If he focused his attention on making this undition about promoting the best talent out there, he'd have a better leg to stand on with advertisers.

[SteveRunner]

...TALENT is the business model that will work...

Do you mean "talent" or "content"?

Seems to me that there's a huge amount of talent both in terrestrial radio as well as within the “PodCasting Universe”, but isn’t it the content that matters?

All across the United States, there are very talented Dee-Jays spouting the same old tired formats: “KISS”, “JACK”, “MIKE” and JAMMIN’. It’s the same old exhausted thing over and over, promoted and presented by some very talented hosts who can talk up to the top of the hour in their sleep, while maintaining that fine tuned resounding on air performance from their well developed pipes.

But isn’t the “breath of fresh air” in podcasting more about “content” than talent?

I hope so, because I have barely a thimble-full of talent, but my listeners only subscribe for the content.

You make some very sound arguments Aaron, but did you mean “content” rather than “talent”? Or maybe you meant “talent”…because I’m pretty sure advertisers will want to write checks to those PodCasts who can attract the most listeners within their demographic, and I suspect that it’s content over “talent” that will draw them in.

I reserve the right to be wrong, completely out of line and to have missed the point entirely. :)

- Steve

[Big Mike]

I've heard from a few recent listeners that caught Extra Super Action Show on the satellite. Pretty cool. I don't know if I've gotten a spike in listenership because of it, though.

It's not top rated shows that Podshow signs, or I never would have been there. Honestly, I don't think there's a magic solution to how they sign the producers that they do. Talent, content....some of both I'm sure.

I'm not eligible for the Undition, so I can't compete. Gotta keep my day job for now. I DO have a shirt, thought. :D

What advantage is there? So far it's been to meet and work with great people. I don't know how many caught the Podshow Music Crew hanging together in Ontario, but that had a lot to do with our relationship to Podshow and the fact that we've developed into a really tight family.

Podshow, like EVERY other company, group, club, gang, posse, consortium [$3 word!], cartel or big-boxer involved in podcasting, has only been doing it for a very short time. We all have. And Podshow attracts criticism. That's cool. Just remember: there are people working very hard on stuff. It's not some crazed "man behind the curtain" in Amsterdam. It's a real thing with real people. And they're not all thick-skinned podcasters. They're programmers, developers and creators that have a vested interest in the success of podcasting as well as the success of Podshow.

[SteveRunner]

....Podshow attracts criticism.

I'm sorry to hear that. I'm not sure what the source of the negative criticism could be (I know very little about PodShow, but the snippets that I've learned about them, out here, seems to suggests that they're very slick and professional: which might be construed as a “bad” thing to “indie” PodCasters).

Personally, (IMHO) I think that it’s silly to criticize any legitimate business that’s trying to make money through PodCasting, because there’s plenty of room in the pool for both the slick pro’s and the “recording with my old Com-64 into an 8-track player crowd”.

How cool is it that there’s a company out there that so believes in this medium that they’d actually spend large amounts of money on their slice o’ the pie?

In college, I was the morning drive “jock” on my 91.5 FM non-comm 1,700 watt college station for four years; and was considered a “sell out” when I went to work for WBCN in Boston as the CE. It hurt a lot to get such negative criticism, when in fact I was taking a risk to do something I loved.

So, it’s a shame that there’s ill-will (as you’ve described Mike) from some about a company that is investing time, energy and money into PodCasting.

What could possibly be the major complaint?

[kickasspodcast]

So, it’s a shame that there’s ill-will (as you’ve described Mike) from some about a company that is investing time, energy and money into PodCasting.

What could possibly be the major complaint?
I have 2 great examples:

This is one that goes way back.

http://static2.podcatch.com/blogs/gems/snedit/cnMay26.mp3


And more recently, How some in Podshow treated others at the Portable media expo:

http://www.portablemediaexpo.com/podcastbros/11-16-05_PodcastBrothers.mp3
Scan to 26 minutes where they begin to talk about Podshow.

You see, its not just me, the little indie guy nobody really cares about. Its hugely influential people like David Winer and the Podcast Brothers.

I suggest for newcomers to listen to the two shows above. It really will open your eyes. I have yet to see anyone at podshow so much as comment on these two subjects, maybe I missed it, i'd love to have that discussion.


That's cool. Just remember: there are people working very hard on stuff. It's not some crazed "man behind the curtain" in Amsterdam. It's a real thing with real people. And they're not all thick-skinned podcasters. They're programmers, developers and creators that have a vested interest in the success of podcasting as well as the success of Podshow.
How I wish this were true.

8.5 million dollars in VC funding and still no show notes?
http://sirius.podshow.com/

The reason they are working so hard is because they are clearly only doing it for the money. It was never about compelling content. Suprise, suprise.


Jack

[Big Mike]

Didn't Adam and Dave kiss and make up at Gnomedex? In public? With about a zillion geeks listening?

And about the other one with the people from the Expo? It's not my business. I paid my way down, as did everyone else.

Jack, I was right there. If these were issues with you that you wanted to clear up, why didn't you come up and ask?

I was right there, all weekend.

[Big Mike]

8.5 million dollars in VC funding and still no show notes?
http://sirius.podshow.com/

I'm pretty sure this is there just as a pointer for the RSS feed. I'm sure someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

[yaz]

FUKK PODSHOW!

[ferg]

8.5 million dollars in VC funding and still no show notes?
http://sirius.podshow.com/

I'm pretty sure this is there just as a pointer for the RSS feed. I'm sure someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

Consider yourself corrected.
This is the address that Curry gave out as the place where we'd be able to find shownotes for the Sirius show. He mentioned it on more than one occasion. At one point, I *think* there were partial notes for 1 show there.

[AaronfromQC]

...TALENT is the business model that will work...

Do you mean "talent" or "content"?

Seems to me that there's a huge amount of talent both in terrestrial radio as well as within the “PodCasting Universe”, but isn’t it the content that matters?

All across the United States, there are very talented Dee-Jays spouting the same old tired formats: “KISS”, “JACK”, “MIKE” and JAMMIN’. It’s the same old exhausted thing over and over, promoted and presented by some very talented hosts who can talk up to the top of the hour in their sleep, while maintaining that fine tuned resounding on air performance from their well developed pipes.

But isn’t the “breath of fresh air” in podcasting more about “content” than talent?

I hope so, because I have barely a thimble-full of talent, but my listeners only subscribe for the content.

You make some very sound arguments Aaron, but did you mean “content” rather than “talent”? Or maybe you meant “talent”…because I’m pretty sure advertisers will want to write checks to those PodCasts who can attract the most listeners within their demographic, and I suspect that it’s content over “talent” that will draw them in.

I reserve the right to be wrong, completely out of line and to have missed the point entirely. :)

- Steve

I truly mean talent, you're right. regular every day radio has disc jockeys but in podcasting the talent are real people, with real stories, making real connections with their audience. I've heard time and time again from people who say "I feel like I know you", and that tells me I've done things right because you should have that kind of connection with your audience. Content is a huge factor but if the person you're listening to isn't a likeable person, that's the end of your show. Of course all the talent in the world won't help you if you have nothing to say. So yes, I guess I need to make a correction and say it's Talent and Content that is the business model to work with.

[AaronfromQC]

And in defense of Big Mike, he was very approachable. I ran into him at the expo wearing a Big Mike shirt and he was very cool. My issues with podshow have always had to do with Adam Curry and Ron Bloom. The two of them seemed very short sighted on what's best for podcasting. Their solution is this: get a ton of shows under one umbrella regardless of talent or content and then use those numbers to sell advertising. That's it. The million listener march speech proves my point. The business model needs to be tweaked, it's not numbers that needs to be the focus, it's quality.

BTW, Mike my comments in this post have nothing to do with your show and aren't making a direct reference to any show currently employed by Podshow, it's a general reference to the plan.

[Big Mike]

I stand corrected. Thanks Ferg.
And Aaron, I know you're not referencing my show or the others.

[anotherquizshow]

Since there's some money to be made in podcasting, I'm curious (and I know others are too) about the financial arrangement between Drew (of Dawn and Drew Show fame) and Podshow.

I heard in a recent podcast interview that he left his day job to pursue podcasting full time. Anyone have any idea how much $$$ he's making for this? How about the terms of his "employment"?

[Lizard King]

I had heard that they tripled their salary. Who knows what their salary was though. It might not have been much, they were always asking their listeners for money, but I don't think it ever stopped after they made their deal with Curry so who knows.
What might allow them to quit their day jobs, might not allow someone else.
Does anyone have digits? I would be curious, but I have to admit I wouldn't want my salary posted to the world.

[jeffoest]

And dont' forget the obvious here. Drew is now accountable for numbers and the work that he puts out via his other podcast productions. He can be fired any time if his work doesn't help contribute to revenue exceeding his salary. And revenue producing in a podcast environment is kind of a risky endeaver right now.

So before you start getting too jealous of 'podshow' money, just remember that there is no such thing as a free lunch and nobody's getting one.

[Big Mike]

Does anyone have digits? I would be curious, but I have to admit I wouldn't want my salary posted to the world.

Personal thing. Not my business.

[Lizard King]

My curiosity really isn't about Dawn and Drew's salary. That's not where my head is at on this. The only question that comes to mind is really, "Do they really still have to beg?"
Begging, asking for gifts pleading for donations for a new vehicle, hinting at Birthdays, and auctions for their company seem to consist of half the shows lately. I've given up listening for now. It's just too much.
For me, it is comparable to going to a movie, and a bucket periodically passes with one of the actors asking for donations.
But hey, they still have a huge audience who readily shills out the cash, so who can fault them? It just doesn't work for me is all.

[djacobs003]

And dont' forget the obvious here. Drew is now accountable for numbers and the work that he puts out via his other podcast productions. He can be fired any time if his work doesn't help contribute to revenue exceeding his salary. And revenue producing in a podcast environment is kind of a risky endeaver right now.


So Drew is as accountable as anyone is in there job. Drew decided to quit his current job and go work for a startup company. Any startup company is always very risky, but the rewards can be great as well. God bless him, I hope it turns out well for them.

As for Podshow, with any business you have to be careful. And when VC is involved, you have to be extra careful. Those dudes don't give a rats butt about Podcasting. They're in it for the money, pure and simple. That's just business.

Every actual individual I have met that works for Podshow (I have NOT met AC or RB) is great. And Big Mike really is big.

[McLean]

Personal thing. Not my business.

*has a Lord of the Rings flashback*

...shouldn't ask us, not it's business...

Sorry...moment over.

[cybercooler]

I met every one of the Podshow folks (except Curry cause I didn't send an email, and respected his request (ok restraining order) to leave him alone). I did see him talking to folks, and seemed nice. Big Mike is WAY cool, Chris Macintyre (I think I butcherd his last name), Butler, Couch, C.C., D&D, great people. I had a blast, and didn't get any kind of "ego" vibe from anyone. Me personally I don't even get making Adam and Ron the Villian. I mean podcasting is entertainment. When entertainment is entertaining enough people will pay for it. If people will pay for, why would you not charge for it?

Is it because they can get advertisers for their podcast and you can't that they are often called "the devil." You CAN charge for your podcast. I have a paid for podcast (OK, it's part of my site I know....). What you lack is that $$$ to promote it, and that I believe brings out envy.

I saw the two schools of thought at the expo. One was "Everything is free" hosting, bandwidth, software. While I'd love to hold hands and dance in a circle, thats not going to happen without some advertising, or someone paying for at least the bandwidth. When you bring up money, the "free" thinkers get a little cold (I had some folks that were "very shy" around me because I was charging two bucks a month to teach people how to podcast - and now that I'm charging 5 I'm sure I have a one way ticket to hell - but somone has to pay for that bandwidth).

As a musician we get the same people who bash record labels (but would sign in a minute). I will tell you the same thing. You don't need the big record label. Sure it's easier, but you can be a "successful" musician without a label. Can you quit your day job without a Podshow behind you? Is it impossible or is it that someone hasn't put in the work, and the time to do it.

I'm rambling.... I just don't get the hatred of PODSHOW the company. To me its 100% American Capitalism in action. GOD BLESS AMERICA. If podshow doesn't survive then the terriorists win :!:

[SteveRunner]

Well said Dave, but I’ll go one step further. I know nothing about PodShow or any of the other PodCast media start-ups that are out there; nor do I ever expect to be paid for this hobby of mine (just as I never expect to get paid for running Marathons…unless I win Boston this coming April of course!), but I would think that any PodCaster who harbors hope that they might be able to make a couple of bucks a month with their show should rejoice that someone like Drew could actually quit his job to work in PodCasting!

Such “dreamers” of bright lights, fame and fortune should not only celebrate the great potential of PodShows and the like, but should pray to the “gods of commercialism” for their incredible success.

In fact, even those of us who produce a PodCast just for the fun of it should wish PodShow and people like Drew a great deal of success! If they win, we all win! If (that is “when”) PodShow makes a ba-zillion dollars, doesn’t it seem likely that the rest of us will achieve at least some peripheral success?

I’ve not heard much of the dislike for PodCast commercialism, and the start up companies that so believe in this medium that they’d sacrifice everything to make it successful, but ****…I wish them luck, and am of the uneducated opinion that they’re going to be billionaires.

Let’s all hope they do!

[kickasspodcast]

<Takes deep breath>



That's cool. Just remember: there are people working very hard on stuff. It's not some crazed "man behind the curtain" in Amsterdam. It's a real thing with real people. And they're not all thick-skinned podcasters. They're programmers, developers and creators that have a vested interest in the success of podcasting as well as the success of Podshow.

How I wish this were true.

I was wrong about this, I do realize now (after a pm or 2) that there are people that are on the inside that have no idea how their company may come across. It was unfair for me to say this, I was wrong. I'll gladly admit it because I simply, was unfair.


Didn't Adam and Dave kiss and make up at Gnomedex? In public? With about a zillion geeks listening?
I am not trying in any way to further a "rift" or "old rift" between AC and Winer. I can't speak for either of them. David Winer inspires me by how he is willing to swallow his pride for advancement. I am not at all suprised that he let past beef die and fade away. I respect him for that. I also don't really know what conversation took place. If there was any public discussion, there probably is, I just don't know. But I can imagine that they worked it out. The reason I keep, and will keep, pointing people to Winer's 1/2 of the story is because (even though AC and he "made up") its really telling of how Curry and Bloom think its ok to do business. Its illustrative of how people treat others, its a lesson learned. They may have personally resolved their issues, but I think its still important to understand how things came to be and what people are likely to do in the future.

And about the other one with the people from the Expo? It's not my business. I paid my way down, as did everyone else.
Everyone in Podshow paid their own way? Or every other podcaster paid their own way. I didn't understand this part. I know you paid your own way, thats commendable and not at all inexpensive.

Jack, I was right there. If these were issues with you that you wanted to clear up, why didn't you come up and ask?

I was right there, all weekend.

You know what? You're right, I should have come up and talked to you at the expo, but not for the reasons of analyzing Podshow, Podshow had their chance to buy a booth or send Curry to give a keynote, they specifically chose not to for reasons unknown. I wish I did go up and speak to ya, but about you, your life, your show, what you were planning for the weekend, who you had met. I tend not to confront or discuss one guy about a group if that group doesn't seem to want to be open for discussion. Also, your Big Mike, your not Podshow, you and I could/would probably agree on most all the concepts that are open for discussion, but it doesn't mean that it really reflects on what Bloom and Curry decide to do. You are right in that we should have sat down and talked about it, honestly I was having too much fun to bring me or anyone else down with Podshow stuff. Most of the people I know just laughed it off and rolled their eyes at the "unexpo".

Consider yourself corrected.
This is the address that Curry gave out as the place where we'd be able to find shownotes for the Sirius show. He mentioned it on more than one occasion. At one point, I *think* there were partial notes for 1 show there.
Talk about someone I should have spent some serious time with. I remember spotting the Bdline crew at the In&Out, seeing a really familiar face and a lovely blonde at the table. ****, I really wish I had talked to the Ferg, I did get a chance to talk to the lovely Shelly but I didn't take enough initiative overall. Thanks for clearing that up with sirius.podshow.com I too had heard Curry give that out, its also where you get sent if you go to podshow and look for show notes. I keep bringing this up because I think its a big sign of a commitment to quality that I think is needed.


My issues with podshow have always had to do with Adam Curry and Ron Bloom. The two of them seemed very short sighted on what's best for podcasting. Their solution is this: get a ton of shows under one umbrella regardless of talent or content and then use those numbers to sell advertising. That's it. The million listener march speech proves my point. The business model needs to be tweaked, it's not numbers that needs to be the focus, it's quality.
We have a winner! This is exactly how I feel. Aaron, as usual, you've outdone yourself (and yes I was probably too soft on the RIAA in that other thread ;) )

Since there's some money to be made in podcasting, I'm curious (and I know others are too) about the financial arrangement between Drew (of Dawn and Drew Show fame) and Podshow.

I heard in a recent podcast interview that he left his day job to pursue podcasting full time. Anyone have any idea how much $$$ he's making for this? How about the terms of his "employment"?

Curiosity killed the cat. Its none of our business how much money someone else makes. I met Drew and Dawn, both really nice, approachable people, didn't spend a ton of time, but I have nothing personally bad to say about either of them.


And dont' forget the obvious here. Drew is now accountable for numbers and the work that he puts out via his other podcast productions. He can be fired any time if his work doesn't help contribute to revenue exceeding his salary. And revenue producing in a podcast environment is kind of a risky endeaver right now.
So Drew is as accountable as anyone is in there job. Drew decided to quit his current job and go work for a startup company. Any startup company is always very risky, but the rewards can be great as well.
Yes, that's what I would have said too.

So before you start getting too jealous of 'podshow' money, just remember that there is no such thing as a free lunch and nobody's getting one.

Its not fair to us to say we are jealous of "podshow" money. Its bad to be jealous of anyone for anything, there is no need (imho) to apply that negativity to any of us in this thread. I am not jealous, I don't think anyone here has proven to be "jealous". Most of us are just suprised that people who seem to struggle to make compelling shows are the ones getting paid. That is the bigger issue here.

As for Podshow, with any business you have to be careful. And when VC is involved, you have to be extra careful. Those dudes don't give a rats butt about Podcasting. They're in it for the money, pure and simple.
Yes, exactly. So there are a different set of objectives applied other than "How do we create and promote compelling media through this new format?" or "How do we let the world know that podcasting is huge because of the great shows out there that are unique and compelling?" Instead its... "How do we make the most money on our investment?" Asking these questions leads to a different end result that has huge implications for the public perception of podcasting. (imho)


Me personally I don't even get making Adam and Ron the Villian. I mean podcasting is entertainment. When entertainment is entertaining enough people will pay for it. If people will pay for, why would you not charge for it?
I have seen your own projects and it seems very profit driven, I have to add this because I think you see it differently because you clearly wanna make a buck on this yourself. That is totally fine, but I do have to recognize that. Podcasting is not entertainment. Podcasting is a format that is really struggling to be well described to the masses. I wish there was 1/2 the effort to market and easily explain "podcasting" as there seems to be for people to make money off of podcasting.

You are looking at it as a business model instead of as a format. How do we as a community grow and promote our format? It is a different notion than whether or not we charge for it. We need to cultivate our format first, then reap the rewards later (imho). I do agree that all the people I met from podshow were really nice. theFerf was by far the coolest, he rocks.


As a musician we get the same people who bash record labels (but would sign in a minute).
This is the kind of derrogitory (sp?) sentiment that does you no service. You assume that everyone else would gladly sign away their creative or artistic integrity "in a minute". It isn't true. Its similiar to the mood from Podshow, thinking we all wanna make money of this. Curry says "living the dream" he explains.. "podcasting for a living". Its not what all people want, its what you and AC want. Its just wrong to assume that everyone feels the same way. I think you could even make an argument that a "full time" podcaster who's sole income is their podcast, would be highly unlikely to create compelling media if not entirely specialized. At some point, alot of podcasts are audio blogs. Who wants to hear about someone's life when all they do is podcast. Its boring. (imho)

I'm rambling.... I just don't get the hatred of PODSHOW the company. To me its 100% American Capitalism in action. GOD BLESS AMERICA. If podshow doesn't survive then the terriorists win
Yeah, its cool, I ramble alot too. You probably don't understand alot of the nuanced issues that have to do with the issue of podshow. Nobody I know hates them, hate is a strong word. Thank God that America has highly regulated capitalism. BTW- capitalism works when someone makes a superior product that people want/need. I am still struggling to see what great product podshow has created. Also, capitalism is one guy starting his company or selling his product. Its not a big company that brings others in to make money in a pyramid style way. That's Amway. As for the VC deal. I really think that Bloom himself just talked enough shop to get 1 big deal. Who knows if they will get future funding. Bloom is good at doing deals and "making things" happen, the VC's took a risk, hopefully they won't be sorry. BTW- Our President is a Terrorist, wouldn't ya know. ;)

I know nothing about PodShow or any of the other PodCast media start-ups that are out there; nor do I ever expect to be paid for this hobby of mine (just as I never expect to get paid for running Marathons…unless I win Boston this coming April of course!)
It would help alot if you did a buncha research going back listening to 100s of hours of podcasts to find out what has happened in the last year. But I don't expect that of anyone. You don't expect to get paid and that is great, I don't either. I also don't expect others to assume that I expect to get paid. ;) But best of luck in boston!

But I would think that any PodCaster who harbors hope that they might be able to make a couple of bucks a month with their show should rejoice that someone like Drew could actually quit his job to work in PodCasting!
Google Ads will get you a couple bucks a month. Even selling 1 or 2 banner spots will more than pay for your bandwidth and time. Lotsa people do this. It is however vastly different than doing what Curry calls "living the dream". That may be his or drew's dream, but they way that AC seems to think that its "our" dream is unfair and simply not accurate. I host 2 podcasts, they split bandwidth costs with me. They are good people with good shows, I don't run any ads, I don't wanna "podcast for a living" either. I wouldn't mind a job in audio production, but I am not the best at it, and that honestly has nothing itself to do with podcasting.


In fact, even those of us who produce a PodCast just for the fun of it should wish PodShow and people like Drew a great deal of success! If they win, we all win! If (that is “when”) PodShow makes a ba-zillion dollars, doesn’t it seem likely that the rest of us will achieve at least some peripheral success?
No it doesn't. It actually means its less likely for the rest of us, especially if podshow only makes money on one or two big deals. I wish Drew the best of luck because I met him, and I think he's a good guy. But honestly, if podshow gets really well known and they keep everything the same (with all their shows), those shows are going to be highly publicized. More than a couple of them are what I would call "horribly insipid audio media". If the public hears about Podcasting via podshow, then tunes in to some of the shows they include, they would likely equate podcasting to sucky media. That is BAD for all of us. There is also a finite ammount of money in the world. This is a political/social issue (not on topic) that people tend to forget.

So in summary:

If podshow were about quality, I would be all about it. Any company that makes a quality product, or performs a quality servive, I am all for. I haven't seen it though. I see no attention to detail or focus on quality in how they produce shows, what shows they produce, how they manage their show notes, what they do for the rest of us (indiecasters), what services or tools they provide. I am looking for quality. If that happens, i'll be a big supporter, it doesn't seem like it matters much at this point, that's a problem. There are some really good people inside podshow, there are 3-4 shows that I think are **** good media. But as a group they have a long way to go. Hopefully this discussion will continue, there are huge issues involved.


I’ve not heard much of the dislike for PodCast commercialism
<slaps forhead>
"Clear channel radio did it for the money!"
-That Podcast Song

Its his (AC's) anthem, and now they have become the Clear Chaneel.
Irony indeed.
Thanks for reading this tome-


Jack

[podcastrant.com]

Jack,

Step away from the keyboard.

[kickasspodcast]

<shrugs>

That's probably good advice.


:)


Jack

[jeffoest]

Hey don't slow Jack down! He's on a roll! lol

You know, I really think that the next two or three years will show that certain podcasts can make money. The categories I see are:

1) those podcasts that help sell other products, other media, other brands
2) those podcasts that have a very clear focus and demographic and, obviously, produce compelling material to that audience - sort of an advertiser's dream
3) some of the current big podcasts such as D&D, TWIT and the like - inertia and 'brand' recognition could propel some of these to truly significant numbers

I also think that there will be sponsorship/advertisement opportunities that can help other mid-tier podcats with hosting fees, some equipment costs and so forth.

But, you know, I think the real power of podcating is not in the handful of 'giants' but in the diversity of the common amateur. The real power, and heck, even impact to society that podcasting will have will be in the little guys doing amateur journalism speaking to things that have real meaning to them (and in the process. to others). I don't know exactly how to articulate this but I think it has something to do with the combination and diversity of what's going on than any particular recurring show.

I guess a music analogy is following: isn't it usually much more interesting to hear the diversity of many independent bands than to just get focused on one? Seems like there is beauty in the variety and putting too much attention on one band doesn't seem as valuable or interesting somehow.

I guess what I'm saying in all of this is that I hope people don't get discouraged by the focus on business models by others and that the dream and passion of having an independent voice can compell everone to create something of meaning - something true to your heart.

[yaz]

fukkin hell jack...

my beard's as long as yours from the time it took to read that...ha!

[tWW]

...But, you know, I think the real power of podcating is not in the handful of 'giants' but in the diversity of the common amateur... create something of meaning - something true to your heart.

Very wise, well-thought-out, inspired & inspiring...
thanks for putting a smile on my face on a drizzly gray mornin'

You're absolutely right, we've barely begun to see the opportunites
-- but the eventual promise of them really shouldn't detract from
just loving what you're doing... exploring the freedom & diversity

[podcastrant.com]

Anyone interested in other podcasters views of PodShow should check Lance Anderson's new Verge of the Fringe. Its a multiple part podcast that delves into Lance's thoughts on the people he met at the Expo. He goes into his thoughts about PodShow but hints that there will be a lot more about PodShow and his take on them and their dealings at the Expo in the future parts.

The show will be interesting for others too when he talks about a "big guy" who makes sarcastic one-liners. You know who I'm talking about. I'm a fan of both so I just think it's funny.

It does seem that there is a line being drawn between podshow and some podcasters. Interesting listen.

http://www.vergeofthefringe.com/

[Big Mike]

DANG, Jack!! :shock:

Warn me next time you do that! Sue went to work, so I had to read that all myself! :)

I paid my way to the Expo, as did many in Podshow that went. We weren't there to represent Podshow, nor were we asked to, but we were invited to all of the stuff that happened [except speakers].
People would come up and ask me things about Podshow. I was cool with that. I knew going down there that that might happen.

I'm not the official spokesman of Podshow. Just want to clarify that.

[kickasspodcast]

LOL Sorry Mike,


If ever I start a post with <takes deep breath> you can be expect a rather thorough (verbose?) response. I hope that some of the things I mentioned seem to hit home. I didn't make it clear enough that I couldn't think more of you personally, how you seem to treat/deal with people, and I am impressed with the media that you produce. You are truly a boon to Podshow. The Podcast that P.W. does, Digital Flotsam, also really ranks high in my book as far as compelling audio. I wish he and I didn't also seem to lock horns on things, but oh well.

I totally agree with what Jeff had to say about the power of small indie casters. Well said man. I missed meeting you at the expo, but Pat was lovely as expected. :)

We should have sat down for a beer or two, I wish there was more time. Frankly that whole weekend went by really fast. I did just find some pics to make me smile, thought I would post a fav.


http://tresjefes.com/images/expo/Podcast_expo_03.JPG

OK, I know what you are thinking, Fosco is a lucky dude to be surrounded by the lovely Wendy, Di, and Kat. What can I say? He's the man. He is the only one with the Keeme button on, and you all know the power of Keeme. Also gotta love that "don't mess with my woman" look on Nate's face. Talk about good people. I still consider myself lucky have spent and gotten to know some of the greatest people and podcasters in the land. Its cheesy, I know, but true.

This pictures captures all the freakin fun I had and that I know others had.


Jack

[cybercooler]

Jack, nice post. Well put.
You said
I have seen your own projects and it seems very profit driven, I have to add this because I think you see it differently because you clearly wanna make a buck on this yourself. That is totally fine, but I do have to recognize that. Podcasting is not entertainment.

As for my profit I always stradled the profit fence. I've done a newsletter (now podacast for 4 years). I do it cause I love it. I think I sold maybe 8 copies of my book this year (so my retirement has been set back a bit). So I always give away information because I love to meet cool interesting people. Likewise my podcasting site is a memberhsip site, but there is a free "podcasting tips" newsletter. And yeah, I ask you to subscribe at the end of it.... In general I just wanted to say thanks for an outside opinion. Let you know I'm not 100% about the benjamins (not that you said that). Maybe I need to tune down the sales pitch (probably sounding too "used car salesmenish.")

You made a great point, and I was so wrong. Podcasting is not always going to be entertainment. I've been talking with alot of teachers, and I see Podcasting really making an impact in schools. Harvard has already jumped on board. There was also a clip of a grandparent reading a bedtime story to his grandchildren at the expo (Odeo session). That was cool. Normal Rockwell meets the 21st century.

I just realized this has nothing to do with the original topic of Podshow, so I'll shut up.

[pwfenton]

The Podcast that P.W. does, Digital Flotsam, also really ranks high in my book as far as compelling audio. I wish he and I didn't also seem to lock horns on things, but oh well.

I am very grateful for your kind words about my podcast. In reality, I'll bet we agree on a great many things. I just don't agree about your ideas about the responsibilities of Adam Curry, Podshow, and how they fit into your view of how the world should work.

In my mind Podshow is a business, and therefor has a primary responsibility to its share holders. Not you... not the general public. On the other hand I think that Podshow, and Adam Curry in particular, has been a tireless advocate for ALL podcasters, and bizarrely honest and outspoken about all his business dealings and personal life. He lives his whole **** life in public. You can be sure... I wouldn't do that.

In my own personal opinion I think the "Curry backlash" is largely fueled by jealousy and ego. People tend to think that because he talks about his new car he's rubbing it in the face of people who could never afford such a car.

Nothing could be further from the truth. The truth is... he is tickled and excited about his new car, like anybody in their right mind would be, and he's too stupid to realize that he should be HIDING that excitement to avoid hurting someone's feelings like me who has 70,000 miles on a Carolla, and dreams of owning a new Mini Cooper convertible.

I've heard the man get publicly excited about opening the cardboard box to a cheap assed gadget.

His problem, if any, is that he shares too much of himself. Not too little as the conspiracy theorists might imply.

He is my employer... and so I have been described as his "lap dog". I'm down with that. If anyone wants to think of me as Adam Curry's lap dog... so be it. I earn my living doing what 99% of podcasters wish they could be doing for a living. I could be MORE than a mere lap dog for that privilege.

Again... I thoroughly expect to regret not being able to resist this reply... but so be it... I'm not as thick skinned as my boss. Have at me.

[ferg]

Talk about someone I should have spent some serious time with. I remember spotting the Bdline crew at the In&Out, seeing a really familiar face and a lovely blonde at the table. d*mn, I really wish I had talked to the Ferg, I did get a chance to talk to the lovely Shelly but I didn't take enough initiative overall.

Tell me about it. That was right after we first arrived, and I was feeling a little sheepish myself. In retrospect, I wish I'd hit the ground running. There's always next year!

[SteveRunner]

...I think the "Curry backlash" is largely fueled by jealousy and ego...

That's my opinion as well.

I’m not employed by Mr. Curry, nor do I honestly know that much about him (I hear the phrase “Godfather of PodCasting” used a lot, cool…whatever), but I for one applaud both him and the share holders of his company for taking such an enormous risk, and giving some legitimacy to this medium.

I worked in commercial radio as a chief engineer for over ten years in the Boston market (before I become a share holder in my own start up company) and so many of my “terrestrial radio friends” have looked at the “PodCasting” phenomenon as only a craze, on par with “blogging”. Recently, as news of this medium has spread, they’ve been calling me with many questions related to PodCasting; by request of upper management.

It appears that PodCasting is becoming much more legitimate of a medium than they had previously thought. If Mr. Curry has any influence in making the corporate world notice us; then three cheers for Curry!

How anyone could harbor jealousy over someone else’s hard earned success is beyond my capacity to understand, especially when (as you’ve so eloquently put it PW) Curry has apparently been an advocate for all of us!

So, from this PodCasters objective perspective, it certainly appears that the “Curry backlash” in really a backlash against anyone who would work tirelessly and risk everything to give the rest of us a smattering of respect.

I suspect that the egotistically jealous backlashers are in the extreme minority; but I for one am over here giving a standing ovation to Curry, Podshow, and any other group or individual that so believes in PodCasting that they’d risk it all.

That takes guts, and I for one admire their spirit.

(Sorry for the soapbox thing…I just can’t fathom the whole “jealousy” aspect of this…slithering back into my hole now…ciao).

[Canis Lupus]

Most, if not all, of the Podshow Music Podcasters paid our own way to the Expo, including Mark from The Tartanpodcast who flew all the way from Scotland to meet up with all of you.

Jack - I met you and Fosco in person on 2 occasions and really enjoyed it (Fosco even bought me a Gin!).

My point is - we may be part of Podshow, but ultimately many of us, like PW who mentioned above, pretty much are looking at the world of Podcasting the same way everyone else is. We don't quite know where this is all headed either. We can talk about business models and salaries and quitting dayjobs, but the reality is the door seems to be wide open for all kinds of opportunities. There's a Podshow opportunity, and I'm sure there will be others. BandTrax simply chose to align with Podshow from the beginning because Renamarie and I saw it as a good choice for us. Has it affected "how" we Podcast or "what" we Podcast? Not at all. Could that change in the future? Sure - but as I mentioned above, we're choosing to go along for this particular ride.

For me, the Expo allowed me to meet in person people who've listened to us, and people we've listened to. For me, that was the best part - not discussing the future of Podshow or any other "business".

The bottom line is there will be business applications in Podcasting. Whether that's right or wrong has nothing to do with the fact that I've made some incredibly valuable friendships with Big Mike and many others connected to Podshow and to Podcasting in general. If I take nothing else away from this experience, that will be plenty for me. I'm sure a lot of us on the Alley have made similar friendships and can agree with this.

[ElNacho]

http://tresjefes.com/images/expo/Podcast_expo_03.JPG
http://static.flickr.com/15/68519363_784c8154e8.jpg
That's the pic I wanted ta see

[Big Mike]

El Nacho, you friggin' RULE!

Jack, I really appreciate the kind words. Thanks very much! That was a very nice thing to say. Got me all red. :oops:

Adam's a cool dude. I didn't meet him in person until at the Expo. But he's one of us, whatever that means. What P-dub said about the box thing. That's Adam.