Promos and Etiquette

[tipsychicks]

I am definitely not any kind of expert on this topic - I am starting this thread to hopefully begin a helpful discussion. I am wondering about promos and etiquette. How do you approach other podcasts with your promos? What is the etiquette involved? Here are my thoughts.

I was approached by one person who wanted me to play his promo. I have never played a promo on my show. This person had not listened to my show. I pretty much blew this person off, and now he dislikes me. I felt that he was rude - he, apparently, felt that I was. This is how I feel:

1. promos are like commercials and irritating to hear in podcasts. i think, if you want to develop a relationship with another podcaster (though god knows why that person would be me), you should send some original content like an audio comment or something like that. you should definitely listen and, hopefully, actually like their show.

2. i wouldn't play a promo in my show because i am in the habit of only recommending shows i actually like. this has something to do with the trust of my audience. of course, i could have a promo from them, i guess, but wouldn't i rather just blather on about how i like them? or clip out some choice clips from their show displaying their wit?

perhaps i just fail with the networking aspect. i wonder, does anyone else have thoughts on this or related topics?

[podcastrant.com]

I agree. I mention the casts that I like in the show so I feel that that suffices. Different people feel different about this but I don't think you were wrong in blowing him off. What did he expect? He doesn't even listen to you show.

[paulyb]

Actually, that person was me. I hadn't listened to ANY podcasts at that point because my computer was knackered. Yes, I did think you were a bit rude Erica, have listened to your show since and actually gave quite a flattering review a few shows ago on Punky! I didn't expect you to return the favour but I did think you could have returned my emails.

We've only got around to playing promos this week and are going to be playing them into songs so hopefully they won't be too irritating. I know what you mean about ads being irritating but if you remember I asked if you could give us a mention if you listened to our show, NOT play a promo as we didn't have one at the time.

Personally I think that forum etiquette has a lot to be desired but that's obviously for another thread. If you were genuinely pissed off you could have pm-ed or emailed me and I would have apologised.

Anyway - it's out in the open now - I'm sorry I pissed you off through naively asking a favour.

[SteveRunner]

I'm not sure why anyone would have felt "disrespected" if they asked for you to play their promo on your show and you respectfully declined. I’ll assume that you were kind in your response, and that they misinterpreted this as a major rejection of some sort.

I do play promo’s on my show, but only one per show, and always after the conclusion of the program (following the end theme and tag line). I have a fairly captive audience of “marathoners in training” and runners who listen while they’re running outside each weekend. These athletes prefer MP3 players over radios because we often pick up interference and weak transmissions when forced to listen to AM or FM receivers while we run. I usually only play promo’s for shows that I think they, as runners, would enjoy (usually other “exercise related” programs that I’m sure they’d want to fill their ears with on the run).

I’ve never asked another PodCaster to play my promo for a number of reasons:

1. MY PROMO WOULD BE INEFFECTIVE: I don’t feel that my show is something that the typical PodCast listener would be interested in. My show is all about running, and really only appeals to other runners…thus I would not expect to gain a single listener if my promo was played on Skepticality or Universe Today (two of my favs BTW).
2. PROMO’S ARE ANNOYING: As a listener, I dislike hearing promo’s on other shows. The various directories are pretty good for picking and choosing those PodCasts that interest listeners. I stopped listening to terrestrial radio because of the excessive commercialism and self promotion, and it’s painful to listen to on my favorite PodCasts. I would never want to hear my own PodCast on another show.
3. I FEEL THAT PROMOTION IS MOST EFFECTIVE “OFF AIR”: Any promotion that I do for my PodCast is directed towards my audience of runners; flyers at road races, articles in running magazines and runner discussion forums and newsgroups. My audience is small, but growing and I’d have to guess that 99.9% of my listeners have never heard my promo, and wouldn’t be moved to listen if they had.

Anyway, sorry for the long response and the off topic diatribe; It’s my opinion that the proper etiquette is simply to be polite when asking, and polite when refusing. I do play promo’s on my show, but no one really needs to ask me; I just do it without expecting reciprocation.

Run long and taper!

- Steve

[crybabyemokids]

2. PROMO’S ARE ANNOYING: As a listener, I dislike hearing promo’s on other shows. The various directories are pretty good for picking and choosing those PodCasts that interest listeners. I stopped listening to terrestrial radio because of the excessive commercialism and self promotion, and it’s painful to listen to on my favorite PodCasts. I would never want to hear my own PodCast on another show.


Yet you put a link to your promo in your sig :o :lol:

[SteveRunner]

Yet you put a link to your promo in your sig :o :lol:

LOL!! True, but please don't misinterpret my inclusion of the promo link in my forum signature as a request for play on your show.

In fact, this further demonstrates my point:

A promo might be best offered in forum and email signatures, or as links on your website and within your RSS feed, rather than within another PodCast! :)

[AaronfromQC]

I play promos on my show because I think it's important as a community that we help each other out. By either talking about a show I like or playing a promo for a show, I'm helping that podcaster get some exposure. Many of my listeners have checked out the shows I recommended and liked them too.

The biggest issue I have is people who ask you play their promo and then don't return the favor on their show. I don't care if they play my promo, but I do care that they try to at least help get some exposure for another show and many of those shows that have emailed me asking me to play their promo don't play promos on their show. So when I get that kind of email and check out the show and notice that there are no mentions to listen to another show or a promo isn't played at all, in the trash that email goes.

Aren't we all in the same boat and trying to get an audience? Shouldn't we work together to help each other out? (insert hand holding scene here).

[boneheadz]

I play one promo per show and I pick them for different reasons. sometimes it is because I like the show, sometimes the promo fits the topic or my show. There have been times when I have either grabbed a promo off the pickle for a show I don't know, or I replay a promo because a lot of the shows I like don't have promos. ( I play the big show promo mostly because my GF loves the line "it will change your life forever" it makes her laugh)

The biggest reason I play them is because it is a nice way to break up the show a little using someone else's talent. I think some show may not have promos because they don't play promos. I don't care if someone returns the favor or not, if I think my 6 listeners would either like the show, or enjoy a well made promo I will play it.


I don't ask to have my promo play, just cause. If I am asked I will rate the request on whether, I like the show, the promo is entertaining, or my listeners might like it. I might even play it if I don't like the show.

daryl

[deadwhiteguy]

I use promos to break the show up. I basically have three segments and need something to break them up, and music would be too long.

I generally play promos for shows I like that I think listeners of the show would enjoy. With the exception of the escape pod prom I used, I only use ones around the 1 minute mark.

Nobody has ever complained about it, so I don't think it is a problem.

If you have a longer show then it needs to be broken up anyway, so I figure it is worth plugging other people. Besides others have been kind enough to plug my show.

It seems a little dodgy to stick a promo right at the end of the podcast though. That seems ruder than not playing them at all.

I could comment on other podcasts during the show, but it doesn't really fir anywhere and detracts from the focus of the show.

Jason

[SteveRunner]

It seems a little dodgy to stick a promo right at the end of the podcast though. That seems ruder than not playing them at all.

I don't know about that, the feedback I've gotten from listeners tells me otherwise: the single promo that I play at the end of my show provides a buffer between my PodCast and the next show or song to come up in my listeners (runners) MP3 player.

Most of us (runners) spend a good two to three hours on the weekends, out training for our marathons (I'm running Boston in April) and so I've got a "captive" audience, and by playing promo's at the end of the show I am encouraging them to listen to PodCasts that I think they'd like, and thus far my listeners have been thankful to me for (A) not interrupting the "running related" content within my show and (B) giving them a good recommendation for other shows that I think they'd like.

Point well taken though, I'm certainly not a "program director", and this is only my goofy (and untrained) opinion.

[deadwhiteguy]

It seems a little dodgy to stick a promo right at the end of the podcast though. That seems ruder than not playing them at all.

I don't know about that, the feedback I've gotten from listeners tells me otherwise: the single promo that I play at the end of my show provides a buffer between my PodCast and the next show or song to come up in my listeners (runners) MP3 player.

Most of us (runners) spend a good two to three hours on the weekends, out training for our marathons (I'm running Boston in April) and so I've got a "captive" audience, and by playing promo's at the end of the show I am encouraging them to listen to PodCasts that I think they'd like, and thus far my listeners have been thankful to me for (A) not interrupting the "running related" content within my show and (B) giving them a good recommendation for other shows that I think they'd like.

Point well taken though, I'm certainly not a "program director", and this is only my goofy (and untrained) opinion.
Well if that is the feedback you have gotten and the listeners like it, then feel free to ignore me :D

I use the promos to break the content up.

Jason

[Hittman]

I don’t like promo exchanges for the same reason I refuse to do Link Exchanges. If I like your stuff, and it fits what I’m doing, I’ll link to it, without expecting a link back.

I don’t play promos in my show because it’s only ten minutes long. But there’s another way to be heard in other podcasts – provide content. I did several bits for Skepticality, which they used to break up their long interviews. One bit mentioned Quick Hitts, but the other ones didn’t. However, Derek or Swoopy did, in comments either before or after the bit. I still get listeners from those shows, even they’re rather old.

(Get well soon, Derek.)

Make a promo, make it available, and make it entertaining enough that people will want to play it. When they do, thank them. But don’t sully it by begging other people to play it. If no one is playing your promo, it could be that it sucks, or your show does, two situations you can probably fix.

[yaz]

the only way yoiu should play promos of another show are if you are involved with that show or you and the other show exchanged promos with the intent of cross promotion...

it becomes the same issue as the music you play on your show, just because i like the topics, your voice or anything else about your show, doesn't mean i will like the music or the shows that you "recommend" by playing their promos...

that being said, we really don't give a shite and keep playing whatever we feel like...

[McLean]

Well, I know each of our shows is going to have a 1-2 minute promo posted a week or so beforehand to get people ready for the show. I won't go so far as to push the promo onto other podcasters, but if they want to use it to help fill their show, I won't complain. :)

-McLean

[tipsychicks]

I don’t play promos in my show because it’s only ten minutes long. But there’s another way to be heard in other podcasts – provide content. I did several bits for Skepticality, which they used to break up their long interviews. One bit mentioned Quick Hitts, but the other ones didn’t. However, Derek or Swoopy did, in comments either before or after the bit. I still get listeners from those shows, even they’re rather old.
i personally think this is the way it should be done - you are enriching another person's cast and developing a relationship - and it doesn't sound like a boring commercial.

of course, i am just not good a creating promos. that's why i don't have one.

[swoopy]

I don’t like promo exchanges for the same reason I refuse to do Link Exchanges. If I like your stuff, and it fits what I’m doing, I’ll link to it, without expecting a link back.

I don’t play promos in my show because it’s only ten minutes long. But there’s another way to be heard in other podcasts – provide content. I did several bits for Skepticality, which they used to break up their long interviews. One bit mentioned Quick Hitts, but the other ones didn’t. However, Derek or Swoopy did, in comments either before or after the bit. I still get listeners from those shows, even they’re rather old.

(Get well soon, Derek.)



Thanks Dave! I have some stuff in the hopper, so if you're thusly inspired for another rant, bring it on. We love it.

Interesting discussion. I'm the first one to say that I'm somewhat out of the loop as I don't spend much time on the boards here (or anywhere) I just don't have that kind of time. More when I'm trapped in a cafe waiting for Derek while he's at therapy, so I've been browsing a bit more.

Has the environment of podcasting changed this much? Or is it a new fad that podcasters don't play promos for other podcasts that they like? As far as I understood it, playing promos is part of building community and being good to other podcasters.

If you're pro-Curry, you'd HAVE to accept the idea of promos because he plays SO many of them. If you're anti-curry, you should definitely play them, to give more support to other indie shows that could benefit from your listenership.

If you have a good show, with a dedicated audience, you can give quite a boost to other shows by playing their promo. We've gotten the benefit of that boost from other podcasts playing ours, and pleasantly I've heard more than a few times that we've given a boost to other shows by doing the same. In fact I still get requests from people I don't know, to please play their promo. And if it's a decent promo, and a show with a topic that I can get behind, I will.

My biggest problem is a lack of GOOD promos. It's practically the hardest part of editing any of the shows I do together, is finding a good promo for my mid-show break. If you choose a good promo, people won't hate them. There are so many podcasts out there, that a good promo can really distinguish your show from the thousands of other shows out there, it's sort of your first impression on an audience.

If your show is short, I guess I see that. If your show is encapsulated into just a rant or something else that doesn't warrant a break, then I guess I get that too. However, numbers show that many listeners want longer shows (a fact that Leo Laporte confirmed for me, and I was glad as we used to get crap for being an hour or longer).

One of our first comments from our listeners was that they wanted a break built in for them, so if they needed to come back to the show later, they had a stopping point. Even NPR has breaks where they usually promo other programs on public radio or have interstitial music. And if you really don't like it, you can skip it.

Another benefit of putting promos in your show is that if you document it in your show notes, you can link to the other show as well. Again, building community.

Seems illogical to me, in most cases, not to play promos.

- Swoopy

[paulyb]

Hey Swoopy

We started playing promos on our latest show and it actually makes it sound a bit more professional so I see it as working on two levels - helping others (We don't actually compete for airtime after all) and improving yourselves). I'm all for it and we'll continue to do it.

Paulyb

[SFEley]

I started out with a policy of not playing promos. My opinion was that I had a tight, very structured show, with no place for extra stuff in the beginning or middle of the show, and if I stuck them at the end the show would just run on too long. I also had a belief (deluded, I now think) that my audience would like my show better if I put myself "above" any discussion of podcasting or the podcast community.

Then I did a very informal listener survey, and I found out how many listeners found my podcast from my own promo being played on the Dragon Page, Geek Fu Action Grip, etc. And I realized that getting audience share through cross-promotion with more successful shows, but refusing to give any exposure to other shows that could use it, was a very selfish attitude. And that a lot of listeners were looking for more good podcasts, and it would only be to my credit if I could point them at some.

So now I play promos. I still don't want the show to run too long, so my policy is that at the end of most podcasts I will play either a book review -- if someone has submitted one -- or a promo. It's actually fairly rare to get a book review in, so I play a fair number of promos. If people don't want to hear them, all they have to do is start reviewing some books for us. Everyone wins -- I get to keep my listeners entertained and give back to the community. Which seems to matter more to me the longer I do this.

[Levendus]

I use promos to cover breaks in recording. However, most of them are ones I've made myself for other shows that I like. That way I get something that is tailor made to my liking. Or I will use a promo for a show that I think some people might not have heard of.

Promo exchanges between strangers would be weird. Why would I promo a show that I have never listened to? I wouldn't bother exchanging promos because I would just assume that they were promo-spamming and I would get either no coverage or negative exposure. Nobody likes spammers and I wouldn't want to be associated with them.

[tonyoci]

I've been wondering about this and then stumbled on this thread.

My problem is that many people's promo's are too long. For me 20 seconds is the max. I will happily play special audio files that say something like.

"Hi this is Tim from The Tim Show at www.timshow.com, please check out my show for the latest death metal music"

But I'm not so keen on the long produced promo's either as a listener or as a new podcaster.

If the audio file includes my show then all the better.

"Hi this is Tim from The Tim Show at www.timshow.com, your listening to the Home Made Hit Show afterwards please check out my show for the latest death metal music"

I will happily mention other people's podcasts and addresses but I think I will only play short promo's because I hate them in shows I listen to when they are too long.

Net result, send me an audio file and I'll probably play it.

Tony

www.homemadehitshow.com

[paulyb]

well we've just done two - a censored and uncensored promo that both run at 31 seconds - the length of our theme!

[kinkysex]

"Hi this is Tim from The Tim Show at www.timshow.com, your listening to the Home Made Hit Show afterwards please check out my show for the latest death metal music"

That's a great idea. Thanks.