My feelings on the "Podsafe" music issue.

[pwfenton]

My latest edition of Digital Flotsam explains my reaction to the recent report that the "music industry" plans to "go after" podcasters. I personally think it's the best thing to ever happen to us.

You can find my podcast here... check it out.

[75minutes]

Hey P.W. Good show.

I'm all for revolution, but let's not throw the baby out with the bath-water.

As far as I'm concerned, RIAA-tainted music should be shunned, despised, and spat upon.

But the thing that hasn't been mentioned in this discussion is the independent labels, and how we can get them positively involved, and not throw them away with the RIAA-taint.

Independent labels should have an important role in the music space. Namely, they are the single greatest resource for developing and producing the highest quality music.

Labels like Asthmatic Kitty, Rune Grammafon, Flame Shovel, Kill Rock Stars, Warp, K Records, et al should be approached and worked with, not labeled as RIAA-taint just because they might require ASCAP protection.

On my podcast, we are working with independent labels to promote their artists with interviews, as well as getting out the music of artists unsigned by any label. We will eventually have an ASCAP license as well, to compensate the artists that we play.

The issue here is quality and diversity. I'm not saying that the PMN shouldn't exist, but not including the Independent Labels hurts he quality of all of our podcasts.

I'm all for democracy, but democracy with resistance and critical insight.

Independent labels and their artists still need to be paid under ASCAP. If we could find a way to negotiate with the independent labels and ASCAP to allow for a podcasting license for non-commercial podcasts, where the podcaster would pay a monthly fee, it would do more good to promoting an artist of any stripe.

The issue seems to be that people want their music for free to use, and I think that those days are coming to an end, even Adam Curry admits it.

If the vision is to have a PMN that doesn't accept submissions from Independent Labels who want protection from the law, then that vision is flawed.

We need a two-track discussion, and leverage as a community, and not just all jump into the PMN as the savior.

[Reaching for Lucidity]

Quite a few indie-labels have joined the PMN already, the latest being Epitaph, which is actually pretty big these days. I was stoked to be able to play the Distillers this week. Also, some groups with contracts are also hitting the PMN. I recently played Gene Loves Jezebel, The Supersuckers, and The Muffs. Plus, I also got permission directly from Next in Line records to showcase their act Reasons for Leaving on my cast.

Some are coming around, and that is cool. However, my show is and always will be podsafe. I can live without the label and radio drivel. There is too much good stuff out there to discover, enjoy, and promote.

I really enjoyed the latest show P.W.!

[JohnnyWB]

Quite a few indie-labels have joined the PMN already, the latest being Epitaph

We can all thank Michael Butler for that.

Pretty good for his first week at Podshow.

Thanks Michael.

John

[OuterLimits]

The way I see it, Curry is setting himself up to be the next Dick Clark. If anything 'podsafe' takes off, the music profiteers will step in and buy them up. Once that happens they'll cease being 'podsafe' and have to be dropped from the podcast circuit.

s-e-n-s-a-y-o

[notyourusualbollocks]

My latest edition of Digital Flotsam explains my reaction to the recent report that the "music industry" plans to "go after" podcasters.

So who are they targeting? I don't know of any music podcasts playing RIAA material.

MK

[pwfenton]

So who are they targeting? I don't know of any music podcasts playing RIAA material.

MK

I don't know of any MUSIC podcasts that are doing that, but many "non-music" podcasts use occasional bits of RIAA music. My show did, the DSC did, Backtracks, Jan Polet's Hit Test, and many more.

The music shows went podsafe very early on because all they play are complete works. But even my 40 second theme song was not "podsafe".

[Insomnia Radio]

75Minutes;

Kudos to you for working not only with the artists but with the labels.

Gaining label recognition is important to the future of music-centric podcasts, and I honestly don't think we need to rely one iota on anything that RIAA branded labels can offer us.

Orgs like AMP are trying to reach and educate indie labels like Jade Tree, SubPop, Dischord, FatWreck, etc, about hte benefits of podcasting.

So far so good.

Yea, sorry about the early morning rant. No coffee yet. Bottom line:
We don't need the RIAA, so don't concern yourselves with them.

[paulyb]

AM I to believe that there exists somewhere a list of labels/artists that we CAN use then? Sorry for my ignorance on this. I'm currently contacting artists/labels direct to seek permission but a published list would certainly save me a lot of time...

[JohnnyWB]

Hi Pauly,

Go to http://music.podshow.com.

You can use any of the music listed there. I think that they ask that you mention where you got the music.

John

[paulyb]

thanks John I'll check it out. So far we've prided ourselves on playing stuff that has NEVER been heard before on any form of radio (As far as we know) but there might be plenty there for me. Cheers again!

[Hittman]

So who are they targeting? I don't know of any music podcasts playing RIAA material.

Coverville plays mostly RIAA material, three times a week. He’s purchased the appropriate licenses from ASCAP, BMI, and SeSac, though.

Which, technically, makes him Podsafe.

[pwfenton]

So who are they targeting? I don't know of any music podcasts playing RIAA material.

Coverville plays mostly RIAA material, three times a week. He’s purchased the appropriate licenses from ASCAP, BMI, and SeSac, though.

Which, technically, makes him Podsafe.

You are somewhat incorrect in your understanding of this. Coverville pays for the licensing fees from ASCAP, BMI, SESAC, etc. as you say... but they STILL avoid conflict with the RIAA by not playing recordings that are under their control. In fact that's the whole idea of the show. ASCAP, BMI, et al, allow you to play the music of their affiliated composers and publishers. That gives you the right to play A SONG... however, it doesn't help you in the least to play a particular RECORDING of that song by a popular artist. The RIAA stands between you and Britney Spears (aint we lucky)... so coverville... plays popular SONGS but ones recorded by podsafe artists. So coverville would never be able to play Britney Spears' "My Prerogative"... however, Coverville could play me singing that song with no problem. And I do such a better version :-)

[djacobs003]

bla bla bla, so tired of all the legal talk. Who gives a crap, podsafe music rocks! RIAA my ***. What did someone in that movie say, **** 'em if they can't take a joke.

[Hittman]

The RIAA isn’t a licensing agency, but the industry yappy little attack dog. The licensing is handled by ASCAP, BMI etc. When a bar or club or radio station pays ASCAP etc. they can play the original, or copies, or anything else under the ASCAP license. ASCAP etc. covers not only the song itself, but every recording of that song as well. At least that’s the way it was when I was booking clubs.

So coverville would never be able to play Britney Spears' "My Prerogative"... however, Coverville could play me singing that song with no problem. And I do such a better version :-)

No doubt, but are you’re breasts are large as hers?

bla bla bla, so tired of all the legal talk. Who gives a crap, podsafe music rocks! RIAA my ***. What did someone in that movie say, f*ck 'em if they can't take a joke.

The problem is they have the ability to fu.ck you back if the want to, and the congress they own has made sure the law is on their side. But you’re absolutely right – Podsafe music rocks. Use it an you not only avoid the potential hassles, you can help stick it to the RIAA. Every CD bought from an indie liable or directly from the artist is that much less money in the pockets of these evil bas.tards.

[radioclash]

interesting the conversation is almost all focused on label release music - mashups, media cutups, film dialogue, unofficial remixes and DJ mixes/mixtapes are all equally unlicensable and not 'podsafe' sadly. Even MIDI files require publishing dollars...so I expect all of you with film-clip intros, backing music from MIDI or copyright sources, the odd cheeky mashup to comply also? :twisted: :P

Don't sing Happy Birthday either on your podcast anniversary, that's copyright too.

There's a whole culture and art out there that is affected by decisions like this - you can't get a license to play a mashup, I checked (I go into this more in Brian Ibbott's licensing thread hereabout) - any 'extrapolation' or manipulation of the tunes you play is expressly forbidden...goodness knows how DJ mixes and mashups on the radio get covered under these licenses (?)

Are there podsafe mashups? Don't make me laugh, the whole point of mashups is recognising the well known in an unusual or funny context. When or if podsafe music gets played on terrestrial and satellite TV and radio, then you might.

[kickasspodcast]

As far as I'm concerned, RIAA-tainted music should be shunned, despised, and spat upon.

This statement shows bitterness, jealousy, and a limited appreciation for music. Its not helpful, and more importantly; it doesn't say anything at all.

Ok... on to the real issue...

Does anyone know where to find lossless "podsafe music".

I have not been interested in podsafe music at all. The #1 reason is because I see none intrerested in providing high quality lossless versions of podsafe tunes. I am rather sure that the PMN only offers Mp3s (ready for RE-compression). This is a huge problem and people may never take the PMN seriously as long as they see no reason to distribute songs in lossless formats like .wav or .shn or even "better than mp3" formats like OGG and FLAC.

Does anyone know of a source for lossless podsafe music?

Also, this may be of help to the PMN because there are some things I have to say about the whole notion of podsafe music and the networks that spring up around this issue:


1: I will never sign up to get your podsafe music. There is no reason for you to have my email or anything else that is requested. You don't need to know my RSS feed to my podcast. That only does good things for you, nothing for me. Is PMN a podcast directory or do they offer podsafe tunes?

2: I will never download a "Podsafe" mp3 and recompress it into my show, recompressed mp3s sound like sh_t and it shows limited audio understanding to only offer music in this format. (which is odd because I know the guys behind it are quite learned- perhaps an oversight)

3: I will never report back to the PMN or any other group to tell them when and on what show i played one of their "podsafe" songs. I will directly inform the artist if the artist wishes for me to do so.

4: I will never agree that music that is "podsafe" is allowed to claim this sort of right "Either party can terminate this relationship at any time, at which point you shall no longer have access to Works." If it is podsafe, it should be end all, no matter what the f_ck happens, how ya use it, altogether podsafe- hah-ha- na-na-nabo-bo, you can't do **** about it cause this music is podsafe etc. And all stipulations of its use shall be determined by ME the guy who is playing the music, not be someone who wishes to retain control over what I play along down the road.

5: I will never plug podshow when I really should be plugging the artist or label who allowed me to use their music. I won't say "Music dot Podshow dot Com" when what I should say is "Brother Love" or maybe even "The Podsafe Music Network." At no point should "podshow" ever have to be mentioned in my podcast because I play indie/podsafe music.

6: I will never say "I got this music from the Podsafe Music Network" It's my show and I get to decide what I say and what I plug. I realize that by regularly plugging Podshow and the PMN I maybe negate my own ability to continue playing Licensed music under fair non commercial usage policies.

7: I will never put a banner for the PMN on my website.


There is such a thing as licensed music that you can play, as long as you don't make money from it. It is certainly not ALL licensed music, but many copyright owners have no problem with non commercial distribution and usage of performances under certain guidelines.


I really wish that people did not think that the PMN is the end all for podsafe music, I don't think its even that great of a system. I humbly hope that these issues help as feedback for the PMN, I mean them in the most sincere of ways. I fear that others are using scare tactics of legal liability to pursuade people into going to the PMN when solid education about fair usage and the wide variety of copyright policies would better serve us all.
I consider myself a musicaster and have not played anything from the PMN, hopefully this means anything to someone.


Jack

[Noebie]

my rant about the subject is on this week's show

http://libysn.com/media/noebie/FT111805.mp3

bottom line -- we need more variety and niche genre stuff that is podsafe (for me especially exotica, old-school lounge, cocktail music and swing)

but the change is here whether people like it or not because market demands and technology drive the bus...the dinosaurs aren't relevant anymore

i'll still play short clips that comply with the tests for fair use on this show, but i'm committed to podsafe music on my other casts

[dorktones]

5: I will never plug podshow when I really should be plugging the artist or label who allowed me to use their music. I won't say "Music dot Podshow dot Com" when what I should say is "Brother Love" or maybe even "The Podsafe Music Network." At no point should "podshow" ever have to be mentioned in my podcast because I play indie/podsafe music.
Jack

Good one! We never realized that. Looked at the "the catch" (http://music.podshow.com/music/producers/registration.php#) at the PMN site and indeed there it is:

All we ask is that when you play music on your show that you found and downloaded here that you say so. You can do this by either:

1. Saying during your show "Some of the music provided tonight from the PodShow Podsafe Music Network. Check it out at 'music.podshow.com'"
2. Playing one of our bumpers during your show. (Coming soon!!)

We also ask that you link back to PodShow podsafe music network in your shownotes for those shows that include music from this site. http://music.podshow.com.

That's not asking too much is it?


No acknowledgment of the artists is needed. This doesn't seem right.

Another thing is that once an artist has signed up, there is no way to sign off anymore. We, the Dorktones, have submitted a few tunes a while back just out of curiosity. Now, with all the commercial hoopla around PMN and 'the catch' mentioned above, we want out. No way to do that. We send emails but up until now, no replies. We feel a bit locked-in.

[pwfenton]

Ok... on to the real issue...

Does anyone know where to find lossless "podsafe music".

I have not been interested in podsafe music at all. The #1 reason is because I see none intrerested in providing high quality lossless versions of podsafe tunes. I am rather sure that the PMN only offers Mp3s (ready for RE-compression). This is a huge problem and people may never take the PMN seriously as long as they see no reason to distribute songs in lossless formats like .wav or .shn or even "better than mp3" formats like OGG and FLAC.

Does anyone know of a source for lossless podsafe music?

That's an easy one. Buy a copy of the "podsafe" artist's CD.

[kickasspodcast]

Ok... on to the real issue...

Does anyone know where to find lossless "podsafe music".

I have not been interested in podsafe music at all. The #1 reason is because I see none intrerested in providing high quality lossless versions of podsafe tunes. I am rather sure that the PMN only offers Mp3s (ready for RE-compression). This is a huge problem and people may never take the PMN seriously as long as they see no reason to distribute songs in lossless formats like .wav or .shn or even "better than mp3" formats like OGG and FLAC.

Does anyone know of a source for lossless podsafe music?

That's an easy one. Buy a copy of the "podsafe" artist's CD.

So I will take that as a strong no from Podshow eh? No interest in providing high quality music to its users? Like its reasonable for me to buy a CD, wait for it to arrive, then rip it to wav, then start my show. You make it SO easy to get high quality podsafe music! How did you figure out such a brilliant system?

I wouldn't expect much else. I try to give some constructive feedback and get nothing from podshow. No Big suprise to me. It is just a shame that Podshow has gone out of their way to make themselves look like total morons. No high end audio available. Silly clauses that discourage use. And of course, you never even bother to post show notes. http://sirius.podshow.com/ A worldwide commitment to mediocrity. It is a good thing that there are some good people involved. Meeting the Ferf instilled a bit of hope. But that guy Marcus just about got leveled at the Marriott, he had no idea how easily I mentally difused his drunken anger. Seriously did he think I wouldn't record/post on it?

It is a real shame that there seems to be little interest in working with podcasters as a group. There is not only a total lack of inclusion, but your group doesn't even seem to be able to manage even the basics. Show notes, hi fidelity in music, and an ability to so much as explain podcasting itself in under 1/2 a page.

I would never rule out the ability for podshow to redeem itself, but you have chosen a course that will only further alienate others, you step on the best people in the world (people like Gary L. for example) and act suprised when people are pissed. And then post a basic question about where to get high quality audio, and I get a smug response. What is new. Oh BTW- PW, that guy marcus said you were pretty much a moron for getting involved in the whole Racist Podcast thing, just thought I'd let ya know. Its ok though, I listened to his show and he's clearly a hack. Have fun!


;)


Jack

[roadrageradio]

No interest in providing high quality music to its users?

Making a CD available IS showing interest, Jack. Making "high quality music" available for free is showing a death wish, and gives a special meaning to your term "users"

No high end audio available.

False. See above.

Silly clauses that discourage use.

You mean like asking for a credit in return for free use of someone's music?

It is a real shame that there seems to be little interest in working with podcasters

Your definition of working with seems to be do it my way or you're a jerk

I'm not affiliated with PMN or podshow. I use podsafe music from Magnatune under similar conditions: medium quality mp3 is free for non-commercial use if you give them credit. They expect you to PAY for a license if you are for-profit and yes, you can buy the CD quality audio to use instead of the mp3 download.

I don't find any of that unreasonable or restrictive to my creativity, and I'm happy that they give me all those options.

[dorktones]

You mean like asking for a credit in return for free use of someone's music?
Hang on there... It's asking the distributor for giving them credits, not the actual artists. Remember that the artists offer their work for free use, they should receive all the credits, not the distributor. Imagine a radio station crediting the music distributors instead of the actual artists after they play a tune. That would be weird and unfair.

[roadrageradio]

You mean like asking for a credit in return for free use of someone's music?
Hang on there... It's asking the distributor for giving them credits, not the actual artists. Remember that the artists offer their work for free use, they should receive all the credits, not the distributor. Imagine a radio station crediting the music distributors instead of the actual artists after they play a tune. That would be weird and unfair.

So when you give the credit, is anyone stopping you from includng the artist?

Actually, both are necessary, since a listener would need both the artist's name and the website where their music can be found.

My credit goes like this, "the Road Rage theme song is Chevrolet, recorded by Burnshee Thornside. It's available from magnatune.com, where you can find more great music by great artists. Check 'em out."

It takes maybe 10 seconds and it's painless, really.

[dorktones]

Actually, both are necessary, since a listener would need both the artist's name and the website where their music can be found.
True! And that is why it is awkward that the PMN guidelines do not mention the artists anywhere. Without their content contribution there would be no PMN in the first place.

[kickasspodcast]

Making a CD available IS showing interest, Jack.
Making a CD is what bands do. Its not what 3rd party groups that make free music available do. The fact that the Band put out a CD has NOTHING to do with P.W. or podshow. It was a smug answer.

Making "high quality music" available for free is showing a death wish, and gives a special meaning to your term "users"
Really? Tell that to the several 1000 bands available at http://archive.org/ You know, bands like Bela Fleck and the Flecktones, North Misssissippi Allstars, The Grateful Dead, Jack Johnson, Soulive... bands people have actually heard of and listen to. Special meaning to my term users? No, I am a user, I want more and more options from developers. This is called normal. More options = better for users.

False. See above.
The Podsafe Music Network does not make high end audio available. Go check out their website and point me to the lossless section. Don't point me to the Bands CD. They are not the PMN.


You mean like asking for a credit in return for free use of someone's music?
I have no problem giving the band credit. Under the PMN terms this is not a requirement. I have a major issue with that. Forget the band, plug the PMN? Someones music? What is it the PMN's music now? You gotta be joking. Its the artists music, the PMN exists to syndicate it and make money on advertising while people get it. The PMN should be happy people use their site at all. If its good, people will talk about it and promote it, they shouldn't ever be forced to do so.


Your definition of working with seems to be do it my way or you're a jerk
More needless adversarialism. The same thing I got from PW. "Working with" requires humility, something I haven't seen yet from Podshow. It also involves inclusion, another thing that Podshow is lacking in doing. How about including other directories in discussions. How come the ower of the Pickle was practically shunned from those at podshow. How come the Entire Portable Media Expo was shunned by Podshow? Is this not enough? Maybe you didn't have the dozen or so discussions I had with several podcasters who seem to feel the same way.


I'm not affiliated with PMN or podshow. I use podsafe music from Magnatune under similar conditions: medium quality mp3 is free for non-commercial use if you give them credit. They expect you to PAY for a license if you are for-profit and yes, you can buy the CD quality audio to use instead of the mp3 download.
No, I'll just use my own sources, and continue to use stuff from http://archive.org/ They are interested in letting users work with their development team. A really nutty idea that you seem not to appreciate.

I don't find any of that unreasonable or restrictive to my creativity, and I'm happy that they give me all those options.

What options? Downloading lowend mp3s of people you never heard of for free? And then charging you for better quality of the same people you've never heard of? And the music isn't even podsafe? Its music that you can only use for free if its not for profit? That is the most useless thing yet. Free , non podsafe music, that you may have to pay for. Wow. What a deal.


Go on defending the PMN, maybe they will help you "quit your day job". I heard the DSC 278 and Curry talking about paying podcast listeners to "quit their day job" and support their favorite shows.

Its gotten down to that? Paying people to listen and create? Sorry Charlie, there are alot of us willing to do all of that for free. We can't be cojoled or pursuaded by flashes of money. Sucks don't it? We just want quality and we have every right to ask for it. Or we will (and people are) go someplace else.

Podshow can only afford to listen to all feedback and incorporate that feedback into its products and services. If they do not, they will become no more.

True! And that is why it is awkward that the PMN guidelines do not mention the artists anywhere. Without their content contribution there would be no PMN in the first place.

Yes, its quite a slap in the face to the actual artist, after they have been willing to submit and allow usage of their music to be exempt from any recognition at all. On our website, we directly link to every band we play. Imagine that.

Is there an internet source for lossless podsafe music? Is there a willingness to work to meet the needs of users?


Jack

[kickasspodcast]

So when you give the credit, is anyone stopping you from includng the artist?
This is retarded. Is anyone stopping me from plugging McDonalds after I play a song? Hell no. Does the PMN require users to give credit to the bands themselves? Not at all.

Actually, both are necessary, since a listener would need both the artist's name and the website where their music can be found.
How are they both necessary? I can give the artists name out and link to their website. They can go to the artists' website and buy a CD. This is the idea, its not to redirect them to PMN so the PMN can make more money on ad clicks. You entirely miss the point. Play podsafe music so that people will buy the artists' works. Not so people will all run to the PMN and sign up and have their usage tracked.

My credit goes like this, "the Road Rage theme song is Chevrolet, recorded by Burnshee Thornside. It's available from magnatune.com, where you can find more great music by great artists. Check 'em out."

It takes maybe 10 seconds and it's painless, really.
Painless to you, blood in my ears.

Why do you direct people to another website than the band itself? I'm sure the band would rather have people go to their website than some 3rd party group.

"This show is brought to you by Saltines, the driest, crispiest cracker in the land. You can find more tasty baked goods at Nabisco dot com"

It doesn't get get any closer to commercial radio that this. What you say sounds cheesy, scripted, and obligatory. Anticompelling perhaps. If you aren't being compelling then you aren't making good media.

;)

Fortunately the rest of your show is usually concise. compelling, and original.

Jack

[dorktones]

Yes, its quite a slap in the face to the actual artist, after they have been willing to submit and allow usage of their music to be exempt from any recognition at all.
Indeed! And don't forget that when an artist has donated their stuff to PMN, there's no way back! There is no way to remove your stuff from PMN. How's that for a slap in the face! PMN is most defenately not artist-friendly to say the least.

[kickasspodcast]

Yes, its quite a slap in the face to the actual artist, after they have been willing to submit and allow usage of their music to be exempt from any recognition at all.
Indeed! And don't forget that when an artist has donated their stuff to PMN, there's no way back! There is no way to remove your stuff from PMN. How's that for a slap in the face! PMN is most defenately not artist-friendly to say the least.


You mean you can't get your stuff OFF of the PMN? Eep! If you want, I'll raise holy hell, trust me, I will, let me know. Until then... I'd be glad to play Dorktones music and link to your site anytime. Post a link or send me an email with your best tune and i'll spin it for sure. Anything I can do to help the artists themselves.


:D

Jack

[dorktones]

You mean you can't get your stuff OFF of the PMN? Eep! If you want, I'll raise holy hell, trust me, I will, let me know.
No need to raise hell (yet) Jack, but thanks for your support. We have send a polite message to the owner, mr. Curry, asking for help in the matter. We'll see what happens.

[spartacusroosevelt]

Let me just take this moment to plug the Dorktones. They have an excellent podcast driven by their passion for music. Even though the oldies thing usually isn't up my alley, their voluminous knowledge of the genres and the love and craft that go into picking the music always yields a fun trip where I can revel in the lost classics of previous decades and not be locked into the same 100 songs that seem to have cornered the radio Oldies markey.

And they don't fill a 40 minute music show with 20 minutes of talking either. I bet your aren't even close to Podsafe, but neither am I so there you go.

P-Dub, I listened to your Podsafety episode and you touched on a point that is my sticking point with the whole Podsafe Music issue. You lose your mental signposts and landmarks. I am supposed to replace the songs that I hear in my head with choices from the most generic pool of songs I ever heard. Music for soccer moms. Yeah, Planet of Womyn, that's some dangerous stuff.

Now most of what I play is not major label stuff. I usually pick import indie labels. But I have played tracks that are RIAA related. I played Comus, an obscure English tribal/freak folk rock band from the early 70s. Hopelessly obscure, Comus has been reissued on Castle UK and sold 10s of copies. But now its RIAA. I like to play the early industralists, Throbbing Gristle, SPK and the like. At the turn of the 90s Mute, then a sub of WB reissued all of the late 70s industrial stuff on a new sublabel called The Grey Area. While I loved finally getting Surgikal Penis Klinik (does the filter like the word penis?) on CD, apparently I was the only one as the Grey Area quickly became cutout bin fodder. But due to this one unsuccessful rerelease, now bands like Throbbing Gristle who were big into culture subversion and information as weapon are choked out of legitimate podcasting. I have played the Go!Team and M83 when they were both on European indies (Memphis Industries and Gooom respectively) and now both CDs have seen a US release (Columbia and Mute) making an archived copy of the shows trespass all over the RIAA. And I have even said "screw it" and played Bauhaus at one point.

Pirate media usually excels in three things: propaganda, heresy and outlaw music. Free Talk Live is propaganda (in a good way, small "l" libertarian here); Pedocast is a classic example of modern heresy, complete with a mob stacking tender around the stake; and me well I guess I am outlaw music. Rather than narrow casting a small group of also ran songs, I play my passions. This is the freedom that podcasting offers. If I was doing pirate radio I may hope to play what I want for years, but my hosts have a real name and credit card attached. The first DMCA warning I get, I'm gone: feed, shownotes, archives, all of it. Then will probably be too late, but if I have to second guess what I am playing to my 100 or so listeners, I might as well stop now.

[roadrageradio]

It doesn't get get any closer to commercial radio that this. What you say sounds cheesy, scripted, and obligatory. Anticompelling perhaps. If you aren't being compelling then you aren't making good media.



Fortunately the rest of your show is usually concise. compelling, and original.

Jack

Jack, I'm delighted that you like my show. You should know that it is scripted, and sometimes I even rehearse. For some segments, I do multiple takes and edit them down to the one that gets released.

I do this because I think it sounds better. I tried winging it for a few segments at the beginining, but it just wasn't tight enough, and I missed a few opportunities for funny lines. So now I polish the presentation until it shines.

For the same reasons, I strive to achieve the technical standards of good broadcast radio. I worry about timing, crossfades on the segues, hitting the post on my donuts, and getting the levels right. And I do post-production like crazy.

I really enjoy producing my podcast. If someone were to offer me a job doing this, I wouldn't be insulted.

[roadrageradio]

P-Dub, I listened to your Podsafety episode and you touched on a point that is my sticking point with the whole Podsafe Music issue. You lose your mental signposts and landmarks. I am supposed to replace the songs that I hear in my head with choices from the most generic pool of songs I ever heard. Music for soccer moms. Yeah, Planet of Womyn, that's some dangerous stuff.


This is the sticking point with indy music no matter how good, IMhO.

The music that we all know, that sends cultural and political messages, is the licensed, popular mass media music. It's in all our heads, and it's a common vocabulary, taking us instantly to other times and places in our lives.

I do a Pop Culture spoken word show, and I use a short musical segue between topics. It doesn't make any sense that I can't use the music of the Pop Culture to underscore the point of a topic. But, it also makes no sense that I should be able to freely use the creative work of others without compensating them in some way.

I've flown close to the flame a couple of times. I used a few lines of the Dylan song (It Ain't Me, Babe) in a piece on FEMA and New Orleans. It made the point -- actually it WAS the point -- of the piece. I hope it's within the range of fair use for satire.

Making creative choices like that with one eye over your shoulder, looking for lawyers, isn't healthy. And it isn't much fun.

[kickasspodcast]

Jack, I'm delighted that you like my show. You should know that it is scripted, and sometimes I even rehearse. For some segments, I do multiple takes and edit them down to the one that gets released.
It sure didn't come across scripted. It seemed highly structred (and that is a great thing imho), but the delivery was solid all around, natural and compelling. Of course the Maddow link on the page gave me enough faith to listen to the newest show (heard the show before, too long ago to recall) but this newest episode is really good. The Walmart, Exxon, & Corruption points you made were all well articulated and the earnestness in your voice made it for a compelling show. Kudos.

I do this because I think it sounds better. I tried winging it for a few segments at the beginining, but it just wasn't tight enough, and I missed a few opportunities for funny lines. So now I polish the presentation until it shines.
That work sure paid off when I listened to it. Thanks :)


For the same reasons, I strive to achieve the technical standards of good broadcast radio. I worry about timing, crossfades on the segues, hitting the post on my donuts, and getting the levels right. And I do post-production like crazy.
Post production rocks!

I really enjoy producing my podcast. If someone were to offer me a job doing this, I wouldn't be insulted.
You seem to be the kinda person who should be offered a job. I wish you all the best and will listen in again. Now that we have bridged a bit, maybe we can find some ways that podshow and the pmc could begin to alter their policies on recognizing the bands as well as (perhaps) the pmn? Just a thought.


Jack

[SPThom]

I do post-production like crazy.
I do the same. For a one-hour podcast I might spend three or four hours fine-tuning it in post... And that's just cutting out dead air, not crazy mixing or sound effects or anything.

I'm amazed that more people don't take advantage of the fact that this is not a LIVE medium. Since it's not live, why keep with the "live" cut? I guess people think that chopping up the audio might take away from the "real" feeling, but the truth is, unless you're gifted at talking and impromptu debate and comedy and... whatever's appropriate, what's real is gonna be rather mundane.

I know that's the case with me. Beyond being only semi-interesting, I have a slight studder when reading aloud or speaking from an outline. You can tell in our first few episodes, but as I've gotten more aggressive in the cutting room, it's become unnoticeable.

In short, post-production is your friend, people!

[dorktones]

You mean you can't get your stuff OFF of the PMN? Eep! If you want, I'll raise holy hell, trust me, I will, let me know.
No need to raise hell (yet) Jack, but thanks for your support. We have send a polite message to the owner, mr. Curry, asking for help in the matter. We'll see what happens.
Don't know if our message to mr. Curry did the trick but our PMN account has been disabled or deleted. So are the Dorktones free from the PMN-chains? Guess not. We're still listed in their directory... crap! It seems that they're not living up to their new artists terms: You can terminate your relationship with PodShow at any time. Upon termination of your account your submitted Works will no longer be available to future Broadcasts.
Time to send some more messages to the CEO.

[djacobs003]

Curry has always said an artist is free to remove themselves or tracks from the PMN at any time. They are not so stupid as to lock artists up like that. What I do know is that it takes awhile to get things done at Podshow. Requests here at Podcast Alley take longer than they should, but it does get done. I wouldn't be emailing Adam on this, by the way. You will get must faster results going through cc chapman or michael butler most likely.

[paulyb]

I think I am in agreement with Jack on this but don't really know enough about legalese to do anything other than what I am at the moment. We retired two of our early episodes because they featured well-known artists and we're now sticking with unsigned bands or labels/bands that we have direct agreements with. I've also promised them that should we ever draw a wage from what we do, we will pay suitable royalties.

I still maintain however that shows like Punky! aim at presenting rare/underground music to virgin ears and thus are beneficial to the artists/labels themselves. For every one person who rips a track there are probably ten who want to find out more about the band and maybe even buy the CD. I've had an email from someone in the last half hour to this effect.

We also like swearing. A lot.

[RnR Geek]

Two Things:

1. If any artist wants to remove their music they can just contact PMN and it will come down.

2. Podshow doesn't limit the quality of the music. It is up to the artist to upload the files. The quality of that file is up to them.

[Seth]

Hrm.. there's needs to be a concise database of non-PSMN indie labels. I can make a short list in my head of my personal favorites but I'd like to know if they've been approached already and what that the answer from higher-up was.

Right now it would be incredible if I could get artist's permission from anyone on say Kranky, Warp or Constellation. I guess I'll just have to email them and hope for the best.

[yaz]

i think as long as no one plays any metallica, we'll be ok...