My open letter to Adam Curry sent to his email 10/4/05

[podcastrant.com]

Adam,

It sucks to write this because I love your show and look forward to it every day. I got turned onto podcasts by the start of your show on Sirius 148. I got into podcasting full force and now, as you can see below, I have 3 podcasts at the moment.

I understand in some ways your position on the Goyfire podcast but now I think the line has been crossed. Podcast Alley has on their website a podcast called Pedologues a website dedicated to "child love". It is basically a round table discussion on having sex with children.

As a parent I have struggled with this for a couple of days now. Freedom of speech is an important thing and a slippery slope. Once you restrict one area what stops censorship from running rampant and constricting all our voices. I don't know the answer. Even if I wasn't a parent I feel that I would still feel the same way.

I am under the belief that you can't be against something you know nothing about, so I had to listen to a couple of their shows to know what I was against. On their shows and site they say they are not doing and/or advocating anything illegal. Are they ****ing serious?

Man I don't know. Like I said this sucks. I'd much rather be writing you an email saying great show, listen to this, check this out, but........

Since you went public and got your audience to weigh in on the Goyfire one, please do the same with this. I think you might find out that the result will be different.

What do you think? Is this good for podcasting? Does it even matter?

A big part of me says that any censorship is wrong. It's what I've believed my entire life.

I don't know anymore..................

Thanks for taking the time to read this. I feel I should make this public and will post on all podcasting forums.

Thanks again.

[SFEley]

I am under the belief that you can't be against something you know nothing about, so I had to listen to a couple of their shows to know what I was against. On their shows and site they say they are not doing and/or advocating anything illegal. Are they ****ing serious?

If you've listened to their show and you believe they're committing or advocating sexual violence against children, I urge you to contact the FBI. Here's a link that should help:

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/cac/investtext.htm

The fact that they're listed or not listed on some directory is not the priority here. Podcast Alley isn't doing anything evil, the podcasters are. The priority is getting them investigated, prosecuted, and possibly incarcerated.

(This is all assuming you're correct about their content. I can't say for sure that you are, since I have no intent to listen to it. That's why you're in the best position to tip them off.)

[youngblood]

Adam,

It sucks to write this because I love your show and look forward to it every day. I got turned onto podcasts by the start of your show on Sirius 148. I got into podcasting full force and now, as you can see below, I have 3 podcasts at the moment.

I understand in some ways your position on the Goyfire podcast but now I think the line has been crossed. Podcast Alley has on their website a podcast called Pedologues a website dedicated to "child love". It is basically a round table discussion on having sex with children.

As a parent I have struggled with this for a couple of days now. Freedom of speech is an important thing and a slippery slope. Once you restrict one area what stops censorship from running rampant and constricting all our voices. I don't know the answer. Even if I wasn't a parent I feel that I would still feel the same way.

I am under the belief that you can't be against something you know nothing about, so I had to listen to a couple of their shows to know what I was against. On their shows and site they say they are not doing and/or advocating anything illegal. Are they ****ing serious?

Man I don't know. Like I said this sucks. I'd much rather be writing you an email saying great show, listen to this, check this out, but........

Since you went public and got your audience to weigh in on the Goyfire one, please do the same with this. I think you might find out that the result will be different.

What do you think? Is this good for podcasting? Does it even matter?

A big part of me says that any censorship is wrong. It's what I've believed my entire life.

I don't know anymore..................

Thanks for taking the time to read this. I feel I should make this public and will post on all podcasting forums.

Thanks again.

hmmm, Pedologues is listed in the directory but 'the youngblood show' is not although i requested it be listed...

...guess more consumers have relations with children than listen to the
youngblood show.

praise CHAIRMAN CURRY.

cussing is illegal but Pedologues is being downloaded daily....again, i'm not
aginst this fact just stating what is...i'm all for the bottom line.

[podcastrant.com]

I've thought about this overnight and talked with some friends whose opinons I trust. Parents and non-parents.

I know this is not going to be the popular view but I have come to the conclusion that for myself this is a "don't like it, don't listen to it" argument.

I mean if we say this is deplorable and illegal (which it is) and shouldn't be given audience then podcasts discussing the glorification of the use of drugs, file sharing and the like would fall under the same category. The illegal part that is.

I am not talking in an emotional way but in a theoretical one. My wife disagrees with me and feels that justifying them is just as bad.

Oh well, we'll agree to disagree. As will a lot of us on this board.

I respect everyone who is going to disagree with this and you should know that a big part of me agrees with you.

[charleyw]

I mean if we say this is deplorable and illegal (which it is) and shouldn't be given audience then podcasts discussing the glorification of the use of drugs, file sharing and the like would fall under the same category. The illegal part that is.

So, therefore...if I smoke a joint and download a song.....I may as well kill somebody.


Interesting logic.


Charley

[podcastrant.com]

Yeah I'm bad at explaining myself.

I just mean a domino effect could "theorectically" happen where weird interpretations of whats allowable could end up affecting us all.

I appreciate the feedback and the sarcasm. In my head it made sense but I can see upon rereading where some might get the impression you did. I am not and did not mean to qualify pedophilia and file sharing on the same level.

[podcastrant.com]

And I didn't mean to put drugs in the same light either. It was a bad analogy and apologize for not thinking my argument though before posting.

[charleyw]

Well, I think Adam cleared it up on today's DSC.


Charley

[SFEley]

Well, I think Adam cleared it up on today's DSC.
Details, please? Some of us are at work and unable to download podcasts at the moment. (Not to mention preferring not to listen to DSC unless strictly necessary.)

[kickasspodcast]

Just listened to that DSC.

AC lies over and over again in his newest show.

Gets defensive and blames the people who
have forced him to take responsibilities for
the dumb things that he has done.

When AC tells you he is working to "create better
podcasts" tell him to stop acting like mashups
are podsafe, stop telling people to listen to racist
podcasts, and stop make excuses for why their
own system failed them.

@ AC and Podshow.
Start removing "offensive" people from PCA and
see how quickly your "community" quickly goes
somewhere else.

But thanks for playing the ZA show Promo- that's
a great show that we reviewed August 29, 2005.
http://kickasspodcast.com/kapc27.mp3

It really got me how Curry just had to cry about
how people have been actually doing things to
put pressure on him to get him to do the right thing.
Doesn't he know that we all expected him to do the
right thing in the 1st place. Wasn't it him who said
that "if it were a Pedophilia podcast it would be a no
brainer"? Why does this guy think and act like we
give a crap about him kicking people off of the forums
for being "negative" or "offensive". He is the one who
told people to listen to a podcast that advocates the
murder of other human beings.


<golf clap>

PCA and Podshow are nothing without users. There
are superior websites that others are already leaving
to use. When do you hear several people actually
request their show be removed from the worlds busiest
web directory? Never. When you start to, best recognize.



@ AC-
We at the Kickass Podcast reserve the right to hold you accountable for the things you do, say, and suggest. We also reserve the right to suggest that people will call you out if you so much as latently support hate, pedophilia, and racism. We reserve the right not to care if you remove us from this forum. You can be sure that if such actions are taken on any individual it will only lead to another 2500 page viewed thread. What really gets me is that you attacked the "Tactics" of some of us here at PCA. That's really ballsy. When you do that, it means you aren't willing to address the situation, you are only willing to spin things by complaining about how people communicate.

How do you deal with Child Molesters and Nazi's?
Through "talking" and "research" and "discussion"?

Sorry Pal-

Jack B.

Escape Pod-

He doesn't say anything new, tries to treat us all like morons
as if we don't know how OPML works. Then tries to say
"take it up with the node manager". And that they now
"reserve the right" to "remove offensive podcasts", "remove offensive
users from message boards", and "remove an opml node entirely".

Thats it, more shameless senseo plugs and more illegal mashups.

;)

[kickasspodcast]

00:06 George Carlin

03:00 MASHUP/REMIX - Grooveblaster - Romantic is the new Fantastic (http://viprhealthcare.typepad.com/Mashuptown/Romantic_is_the_new_Fantastic.mp3) from MashupTown.com (http://viprhealthcare.typepad.com/mashup_of_the_week_podcas/2005/10/romantic_is_the.html)

07:11 Welcome to folks listening on Sirius channel 103

07:40 Adam is enthusiastic about Podsafe music but has been consumed by updating the Podcast directories

08:39 Indipodder.org, why it's cool (OPML and all), how it works

10:29 Senseo burp...

11:14 RFI from Adam's Blackberry is audible on the DSC

12:28 RFI from Adam's Blackberry is audible on the DSC again (yes Adam -- putting the Blackberry at least six feet away from your recording gear will solve that problem!)

14:50 Podcastalley.com: about it and how it works

15:50 The issue at hand: podcasts are popping up in the directories that people generally find offensive...

17:15 The question: should every single podcast be listed in these directories regardless of what the content of the podcast is?

18:40 This is not a free speech issue, rather it's a matter that what shows are linked is a reflection of who Podshow.com is.

20:36 "We reserve the right to not list [certain shows] on PodcastAlley.com and on the homepage / top level of Indiepodder.org"

23:00 What torques off Adam the most are the tactics being used to stir the pot in this whole matter.

24:23 PROMO - Brace for Impact: The Adventures of Mick Aloha and Apocalypse Dowell (http://freepodcastnovel.com/) sent in by Apocalypse Dowell

25:16 PROMO - The ZA Show (http://www.thezashow.za.net/) podcasting from Cape Town, South Africa sent in a promo...

26:10 PROMO - MADPOD.com Podcasting NYC (http://www.madpod.com) Shadow Steele sent in a promo...

26:30 PROMO - The Simon Zane Show (http://www.pacificwestradio.com) Sent in by Peter Reid

26:50 PROMO - Web Essentials 2005 (http://we05.com) David Thomas sent in a promo

27:18 Adam likes "Barry Manilow stuff"

27:35 The music licensing conversation

37:50 AUDIO COMMENT/STEALTH COMMERCIAL - We been checking out this podcast music network...

39:25 Back to the music licensing conversation

42:30 AUDIO COMMENT Adrian Pegg (http://www.adrianpegg.co.uk/), organizer of PodcastCon UK (http://podcastcon.co.uk/)... (Reference to PodcastPaul (http://www.podcastpaul.com/), PodLawyer.com (http://www.podlawyer.com/) and BBC Radio Five Live (http://www.bbc.co.uk/fivelive/programmes/upallnight.shtml))

45:54 Back to the music licensing conversation; the proposed plan for Podsafe Music Network

48:44 Adam is sorry for the rant but we'll get all the songs and promos tomorrow...

48:55 Sign-off.

[SFEley]

15:50 The issue at hand: podcasts are popping up in the directories that people generally find offensive...
Thanks, Jack. However, I'd already found those shownotes before I asked the question. They don't really offer much in the way of detail.

What I'd like to know, if someone can answer it, is what Curry said. Not a listing that only gives the topic; and not a vitriolic rant that only tells me what you think. I'd like a brief, relatively objective summary of his actual statements.

If nobody can do that, then sometime tonight I'll listen myself (at least I know what minute to start at) and post such a summary for the benefit of anybody else. But it'll probably be quite late, as I have a podcast to put together first.

[TINKOFF RADIO]

Sometimes we have to decide if it's worth being right or being happy...

That being said, I do agree with what Adam Curry said on his show today - the choice of PCA to edit anything on this site is ultimately up to them, it's their right, they own the place. This is not a public company or a local government, nor does it pretend to be - so the rules are pretty much their game.

I also think that their actions here will not make everyone jump ship. That fate would only depend on the real content and service PCA has to offer the podcast community - and as far as I can tell, it's still looks alive and well from my side of the fence. This issue is distracting but it will not destroy the kingdom.

Finally I hope everyone will take the opportunity to consider leaving more constructive comments rather destructive rants, threats and critisisms. Retaliation through anger or violence never solved anything - and holds no power. It's very difficult to hear anyone, when they are yelling at you.

- Enough said.

Peace will only prevail if we start by disarming ourselves - through our words and actions. Consider Peace as the answer, your life may depend on it someday. LOVE TO ALL - TINKOFF

[podcastrant.com]

He basically said that they are removing the shows from the podcast alley directory. And from now on they will also remove offending posters.

Ipodder.org will keep the shows listed. If you have a problem with that you are to contact the manager of that particular node.

[podcastrant.com]

Well put Tinkoff.

[Version3]

Great post Tinkoff. :D


I've been watching for some input like that.

[youngblood]

I've thought about this overnight and talked with some friends whose opinons I trust. Parents and non-parents.

I know this is not going to be the popular view but I have come to the conclusion that for myself this is a "don't like it, don't listen to it" argument.

I mean if we say this is deplorable and illegal (which it is) and shouldn't be given audience then podcasts discussing the glorification of the use of drugs, file sharing and the like would fall under the same category. The illegal part that is.

I am not talking in an emotional way but in a theoretical one. My wife disagrees with me and feels that justifying them is just as bad.

Oh well, we'll agree to disagree. As will a lot of us on this board.

I respect everyone who is going to disagree with this and you should know that a big part of me agrees with you.


podshow inc, needs to inform the athorities so they can monitor and anaylize the stats of who downloaded the show...and they need to get their lawyer on the issue (if they havent
already) b/c they theoritically could be held 'liable' for facilitating the
disemination of such 'obscene' mateiral.

and i'm sure there is some 'child protection internet act' law of some sort that officialy puts podcastalley in the legal wrong in this instance.

can you imagine the PR nightmare if - some kid was molested b/c of the podcast?
or molested and then talked about on the podcast!


and no, child molestation isnt the same as illegal substance use or illegal
file sharing.

podshow inc, should also remove any mention that the show ever
existed from the message boards. and pray some journalist doesnt do some
senstionalist story on it. can you imagine how quickly the advertisers would
flee from podshow if a witch hunt-esque story about adam curry's new
podcasting venture was harbouring such podcasts?


from a bizness point of view, it was a HUGE blunder to let the show ever make
it on podcast alley....very sloppy. worry less about the cussing and the
'rude' behavior on the boards (which only hard core podcasters read anyway) and
worry about harbouring a child molestation podcast that could poetentially
be a huge black eye to your company.

[youngblood]

Finally I hope everyone will take the opportunity to consider leaving more constructive comments rather destructive rants, threats and critisisms. Retaliation through anger or violence never solved anything - and holds no power. It's very difficult to hear anyone, when they are yelling at you.

- Enough said.

Peace will only prevail if we start by disarming ourselves - through our words and actions. Consider Peace as the answer, your life may depend on it someday. LOVE TO ALL - TINKOFF

i'm sorry, i just havent seen these offensive posts everyone is up in arms about.

'destructive rants, threats and critisisms'?? wh-wh-what?

from my short time here the posts have been very tame, compared to other
net message boards.

how does 'peace' have anything to do with saying: 'your show sux, you are lame,
you are close minded, you have poor production values, you are ugly, you
are not funny, you had big hair, you cant spell, you are stupid, etc, etc?

the definition of how we typically use the word peace is as follows:

"freedom from or the cessation of war or violence"

you can still have verbal conflict in peace time.

one man's 'constructive' comment is another man's 'deconstructive' comment.

it seems the podcasting community is going though some growing pains.

also, podcast alley can't be the home of the 'community' b/c it is owned by
a corporation that has vested interets in some shows over other shows.

so, why would they want to have a board where people bash their product.
(even if it is done in the most mild way)

podcastalley will turn into a watered down board that exists only to promote
their shows...not as a place where the 'community' can communicate freely.

it seems counter-intuitive to allow your product to be bashed on your board but
books like the clue train manifesto show how just this transparancy can lead
to increased consumer confidence and increased profits.

[kickasspodcast]

I think the bottom line is simple.


Normal people get pretty upset
about Child Molesters and Neo Nazis.

Expect those people to act
accordiningly in a way that is
directly proportionate to their
outrage.

Jack B.

[youngblood]

Sorry Pal-

Jack B.

Escape Pod-

He doesn't say anything new, tries to treat us all like morons
as if we don't know how OPML works. Then tries to say
"take it up with the node manager". And that they now
"reserve the right" to "remove offensive podcasts", "remove offensive
users from message boards", and "remove an opml node entirely".

Thats it, more shameless senseo plugs and more illegal mashups.

;)

you make some good points jack b (hope i dont get removed for saying so)

also, something i just thought of that scared me....not only can curry and
podshow inc, remove podcasters who they deem 'offensive' (ie: going aginst the
status quo) from this site...they prob. could - with not to much work - get an 'offensive' podcaster removed from the itunes directory as well...there by
taking them out of the podcasting world all together (not entirely, but you
get the point)

...i think i'm done pointing out the hypocracy around these parts....podshow
inc and curry are the 800lb gorrilla in the podcasting world and they have all
of us at their mercy. i say something too 'offensive' and my show magically
ends up missing from itunes.


also, when podshow inc. bought this site , it ceased to be the 'community' for
podcasters in general and started being merely the 'community' for
podshow.

they are two different communites- with different goals.

i think curry and the podshow inc. people have some soul searching to do
in regards to the above fact...good luck sorting it out.

until then, i think i'm going to give podcastpickle a try....

[rookiee]

I think the bottom line is simple.


Normal people get pretty upset
about Child Molesters and Neo Nazis.

Expect those people to act
accordiningly in a way that is
directly proportionate to their
outrage.

Jack B.

I couldn't agree more. Show me a child molester and I'll be just as outraged as you are.

Hey, Jack, btw, I respect you. I like your podcast. I think it's well-produced, far better than I ever could. I think you have a valid point in that there should never be any blatent hatemongering going on in Podcasting. Why then, do you act in a hypocritical way? Why do you blast hate at me in the name of quashing that which you openly spread? Is it to get more listeners? Are you hurting from some traumatic experience in your past? Why're you treating me like I'm a black person in the deep south and I just sat on your white toilet?

This is a medium in which everyone suddenly has equal share to speak their mind, practice their 1st amendment rights, and let others have the chance to hear what's on their mind. It's called freedom. I'm not hurting anyone, I'm not preaching hate. I'm not preaching illegalities like you're claiming I'm doing. I'm merely talking about social issues which effect us all.

I really appreciate your thoughts on this. I also appreciate the tremendous response I've gotten for my show since this all began. Seriously, since you've been going on about how horrible my show is, my listenership has gone through the roof. You've given me the type of advertising I could never achieve on my own. And now I understand that there's letters which have been sent to mainstream news correspondants? Excellent. Thank you, very much. It's amazing what a single loser can do with a cheapass microphone and 5 bucks a month.

Peace, out.