Trapped in the Superdome: Refuge becomes a hellhole

[O.C. Chris]

This is hard to read.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002463400_katrinasuperdome01.html

[Hittman]

Crack vials littered the restroom. Blood stains the walls next to vending machines smashed by teenagers. . .At least two people, including a child, have been raped as the arena darkened at night. . ."There is feces on the walls," said Bryan Hebert, 43, who arrived at the dome Monday. "There is feces all over the place."

Too bad they couldn’t have locked out the dirtbags. Smashed vending machines, crack vials, and **** on the walls weren’t put there by decent people.

Anyone caught doing such things should be tossed, unceremoniously (or maybe with great ceremony) into the fastest body of water nearby.

[O.C. Chris]

Too bad they couldn’t have locked out the dirtbags. Smashed vending machines, crack vials, and **** on the walls weren’t put there by decent people.

That is so true.

[mental-escher]

Those with means fled the city prior to the hurricane.

Those remaining were the sick, poor and desperate.

Sez a lot about our society that they were simply left there to be victims of this natural disaster. And now, days afterwards, New Orleans has become a Feral city (http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/001912.html) right here in America. In the meantime, where is the President? Has he set foot in NO yet?! What a shame.

This portends of our future under this current administration. In disasters (terror attacks too?), the poor are left to their own means while the corporations simply profit. Redevelopment bonanza for business, while 50,000+ people are left permanently displaced.

4 yrs after 9/11, we still have this piss poor emergency response and civil control after a PREDICTED disaster- what happens when a surprise (ie, terrorist) disaster hits?

Who in government will step up and take responsibility for this debacle- or will they simply smear dissentors and blame the victims?

[podcastshuffle]

Sez a lot about our society that they were simply left there to be victims of this natural disaster. And now, days afterwards, New Orleans has become a Feral city (http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/001912.html) right here in America. In the meantime, where is the President? Has he set foot in NO yet?! What a shame.

Its actually better that the President doesn't set foot on ground zero on day one, because when he arrives all kinds of resources will diverted from search, rescue and law enforcement to create a stable bubble zone for W and his staff. That being said I heard on the news that he'll be there Friday.

The shootings and looting reminds me of the LA Riots (an unnatural disaster of smaller porportions). When the verdict came down all the gangs went out with molotov cocktails and their guns and looted and burned down the poorest parts of the city. Was a shame. The wealthy west side of LA wasn't touched (well we had some smoke and a curfew, but not fires and gangs). I don't know much about New Orleans, but its seems similar.

Jeff

[Hittman]

the poor are left to their own means

Wheezer, you know I love ya – but that’s complete, total bullshit.

- - -
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/katrina_washington;_ylt=AljG.zkVgYnwHPT4r.jWCRGs0N UE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--
By DAVID ESPO, AP Special Correspondent 10 minutes ago
WASHINGTON - Congress rushed to provide a $10.5 billion down payment in relief aid for Gulf Coast victims of Hurricane Katrina on Thursday as President Bush ordered new action to minimize disruptions in the nation's energy supplies.
- - -
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/08/30/katrina.washington.ap/

The American Red Cross said it had thousands of volunteers mobilized for the hurricane. It was the "largest single mobilization that we've done for any single natural disaster," spokesman Bradley Hague said. The organization set up operational headquarters in Baton Rouge, Louisiana.

The Coast Guard closed ports and waterways along the Gulf Coast and positioned craft around the area to conduct post-hurricane search and rescue operations.

The Agriculture Department said its Food and Nutrition Service would provide meals and other commodities, such as infant formula, distilled water for babies and emergency food stamps.

· The Defense Department dispatched emergency coordinators to Alabama, Florida, Louisiana and Mississippi to provide communications equipment, search and rescue operations, medical teams and other emergency assistance.

The Health and Human Services Department sent 38 doctors and nurses to Jackson, Miss., to be used where needed, and 30 pallets of medical supplies to the region, including first aid materials, sterile gloves and oxygen tanks.

- - -

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/08/30/national/main802699.shtml
The government began rushing baby formula, communications equipment, generators, water and ice into hard-hit areas of Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama, along with doctors, nurses and first-aid supplies.

The Pentagon sent experts to help with search-and-rescue operations and the Federal Emergency Management Agency had medical teams, rescue squads and groups prepared to supply food and water poised in a semicircle around New Orleans.

4 yrs after 9/11, we still have this piss poor emergency response and civil control after a PREDICTED disaster- what happens when a surprise (ie, terrorist) disaster hits?
Large cities have complex webs of people coming and going, carrying all the supplies it takes to keep the place running. These systems evolve over years, and decades. Thanks to the magic of capitalism, it’s self adapting and usually works pretty well. It requires a complex infrastructure to support all the goods going in and out of the city.

When those webs are ripped to shreds and the city’s infrastructure is completely destroyed, they can’t be replaced in a heartbeat. Or a day. Or three. As Scotty used to remind us, “We canna change the laws of physics.�
I don’t think the LA riots are a valid comparison. At least some of the looters in N. O. were stealing food and supplies. LA was nothing more than a bunch of dirtbag criminals destroying and stealing everything. There were plenty of them in N. O, of course. Someone stealing food and baby formula is one thing – someone walking out with a vacuum cleaner and a TV should be, at the very least, shot in the *** with a load of salt, to put them out of commission for a while.

[jimk]

Hitt, you didn't know? That's the new loony left mantra: Bush's fault. Doesn't matter how reasonable the truth is. Bush did it.

A person who would use this situation to score political points is no better than the criminal scum preying on the good and decnt people who got trapped in this storm.

Shame on ANYONE who does it. Left right or middle. SHAME on you.

[mental-escher]

Dear Jimie,

I believe even you can now stop defending the piss poor planning/relief efforts as being adequate.

NO evacuation plans we based on the premise that evacuees would use their own transportioan to flee. The poor rely on public transportation- they don't often have their own. What we need is evacuation plans that include all citizens, not just "those with their own means of transportation". What ever happened to "Public" transit? The poor were, in short, ignored. And now we see another of the results of such class-blindness.

Katrina is a tragedy (like 9/11) to be learned from, not just recovered from.

Bush admits Katrina relief effort not acceptable

CTV.ca News Staff

Facing blistering criticism for his administration's response to Hurricane Katrina, U.S. President George W. Bush admitted "results are not acceptable" and pledged to bolster relief efforts with a personal trip to the Gulf Coast.

Speaking on White House grounds just before boarding his presidential helicopter, Marine One, Bush stopped defending his administration's response and for the first time criticized it.

[docsnavely]

i do believe he was criticizing "relief efforts", and not just their piece of it, but as the effort in general....

why does there have to be so much ****ing finger pointing?!?!?!?

yes, the US isn't as prepared for disasters than we thought. lesson learned, adapt and move on. that's all that can be done!

quit ****ing trying to pin this on something other than mother nature, and our country's general lack of regard to it's future and well being. those two problems are beyond one man's grasp let alone one group's ability to correct!

until our nation comes together to pick each other up off their asses, nothing will ever change. it saddens me to see such problems back home, and have nothing but the ability to donate money (that isn't 100% guaranteed to make it to it's destination)!

you people really sicken me at times!!!! i am almost glad that i am here in japan, and not at home having to hear this type of bullshit spew out of someone's mouth on a first hand basis!

help fix, not point.....

[jeffoest]

Josh,

With all due respect, you are just ranting and choosing to look at the negative.

Here in Dallas, my company, the newspaper here, and friends have been extremely active in soliciting for volunteers in the area to help out with activities for the evacuees that are headed this way. A call to one of volunteer organizations set up to man the hotlines showed that they have had too many people volunteering 8-hour shifts during their Labor-Day Weekends and beyond. Too many. They have to turn volunteers away.

These are the stories that help define the kind of country we are. Time and time again, Americans come out and help others (even in other countries) in times of need.

I think criticism is necessary and useful but I don't respect those that dwell on it. Give some money, help out where/if you can in Japan (probably can't directly) and look for the all the crazy positive stuff that is going on right now.

We all can watch all the political shows and get all mad and upset by xx calling xx this and that, yada, yada, yada.... Choose to turn that stuff off. Is it so hard? Most Americans could care less about that anyways. The few vocal people in these boards on politics (we all know who they are) are usually SO full of themselves and SO wrong that I can't believe anyone actually takes them seriously. Trust me, most people don't think as they do.

BTW - During last year's hurricane season, the Dallas Morning News ran a huge multi-page analysis of New Orleans and the problems that a hurrican could create there. This is not a mystery. Civil engineers knew that the city could be flooded massively with a Hurrican of size 4 or 5. Could they have invested more money to make it more safe? Sure. It's a tough policy call to invest billions into something to prevent something without an immediate payback or a small probability of happening in the short term. That's a tough sell to a population anywhere. But I would probably argue when the smoke clears that yes, because NO is such a poor city and yes, the evacuation plan only figured on people with means evacuating, they probably should have had some better evacuation plans in place. But, now the focus should be on getting the people out, getting them food and water....

[O.C. Chris]

yes, the US isn't as prepared for disasters than we thought. lesson learned, adapt and move on. that's all that can be done!

Good point.

This forum is funny. And not funny ha ha but funny sad. You could start a tread just about anything and always ends with "you suck, no you suck". At first it thought it was funny. Now it's just old. The Corey and Joel Radio show said this week that this forum was 25 guys that like to bitch at each other. I would have to say that is true.

I read that article in the Seattle Times and was moved. So I thought what the heck. Why not post it in the PCA forum and it turns into this.

[jeffoest]

Interesting article about New Orleans written a year ago...

http://www.nola.com/washingaway/

Also this modern day excellent report from the LATimes talks about how the media has been misreporting this thing.....

http://www.calendarlive.com/tv/cl-et-rutten2sep02,0,1982966.column?coll=cl-calendar

[kickasspodcast]

Crack vials littered the restroom. Blood stains the walls next to vending machines smashed by teenagers. . .At least two people, including a child, have been raped as the arena darkened at night. . ."There is feces on the walls," said Bryan Hebert, 43, who arrived at the dome Monday. "There is feces all over the place."

Too bad they couldn’t have locked out the dirtbags. Smashed vending machines, crack vials, and **** on the walls weren’t put there by decent people.

Anyone caught doing such things should be tossed, unceremoniously (or maybe with great ceremony) into the fastest body of water nearby.

Yeah, chastize the "looters", you know the people STEALING Insulin, Shoes, Water, food. Maybe people are acting crazy because nobody is communicating to them.

Why do people think its suddenly ok to pick and choose what is and what is not ok to Steal? Isn't that what they call Situational Ethics? Seriously.

You know that notoriously Liberal News Station MSNBC? Well here's what they have to say about Bush's latest failure.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9157866/

@ Mental Escher!

You are soooo right sometimes and this is ONE of them.

You forgot to add Dave Hitt to the list if people actually defending this unprecedented LACK OF LEADERSHIP.

Why would Bush even care, everything he does is a Disaster that hurts poor, working people. I wish I was actually suprised, I am only disgusted and mournful.


The Storm Surge- A natural disaster!

Hurricane Katrina- Entirely Unpreventable!

The Flood that killed God knows how many- entirely preventable.


Jack B.
(outraged)

Remember how Bush went to ARIZONA (a rather dry area) the DAY AFTER the Hurricane to play Golf!

http://www.badgolfer.com/images/features/george-bush-golf.jpg

Wonder what he was doing on TUESDAY? The next day?
http://www.therandirhodesshow.com/live/splash/katrina_splash.jpg

Who will rebuild? See what the Kos thinks.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/8/31/183129/626

[docsnavely]

Josh,

With all due respect, you are just ranting and choosing to look at the negative.



as would be expected because that's all that is being posted about this tragic situation on these boards. i see the good things that are happening in and out fo teh mainstream media. i am just appalled at some times by certain people's lack of understanding of situations!

i usually don't try to get into these political rants, but this time, i had to let someone know that this thread isn't about the ****in politics.....

it's about bringing our nation together like we were when we were the "flag wavin'" kick *** one nation undivided post september 11.

and what happened to that one nation undivided only month after 9/11? i would really like to know!

sorry, i just felt that a rant was well deserved! :evil:

[jimk]

and what happened to that one nation undivided only month after 9/11? i would really like to know!

Personally, I don't feel like I have hardly anything at *all* in common with some people. And it's getting worse. I'm not sure if the Internet is creating it or just exposing it...but there is a divide in this country that I simply don't care if it closes. That's how foul I find some people.

[docsnavely]

you just spend too much time here like the rest of us jim. you're a user like us all :wink:

personal opinions aside, i find almost everyone here as a decent person, and some whom i have disaagreed with on many occasions, actually seem like i could count on them to back me up if some need ever arose.....

just gotta quit taking things so ****ed personal.....

[Hittman]

And don’t forget to give medals to the guy who shot at the medical helicopter, so it left, instead of evacuating sick people. Such a hero!

And the people spreading human feces on the wall, not only exacerbating the misery but helping to spread disease and infection. Defend their right to artistic expression!

and what happened to that one nation undivided only month after 9/11? i would really like to know!

Personally, I don't feel like I have hardly anything at *all* in common with some people. And it's getting worse. I'm not sure if the Internet is creating it or just exposing it...but there is a divide in this country that I simply don't care if it closes. That's how foul I find some people.

And that would be fine if people would just leave each other alone. You live this way, I’ll live that way, and we’ll both feel superior looking down our noses at each other.

The problem is that everyone wants to force everyone else to live the way they do, through litigation and legislation. The Religious Reich wants their theology mandated at the point of a gun (i.e. law). The Loony Left is just as bad, although not quite as powerful these days. The Nicotine Nazis, using the Big Lie technique, have succeeded in turning a quarter of the population into pariahs, and extracted their revenge on establishments that catered to a smoking clientele by shutting them down, again at the point of a gun, claiming that it’s for public health and, of course, for the chillllllllllldeeeeeeeren. The Grease Police are now using the same tactics to force us to eat the way they see fit. And most of the gullible public doesn’t even notice any of this. When they wake up in Singapore, not too many years from now, they’ll shrug and say “well it’s for our own good.�

The first coin of the US bore the slogan “Mind Your Business.� It’s time we discarded “In God We Trust� and “E Plurbus Unim,� and went back to “Mind Your Business.�

personal opinions aside, i find almost everyone here as a decent person, and some whom i have disaagreed with on many occasions, actually seem like i could count on them to back me up if some need ever arose.....

I’d agree with that.

[kickasspodcast]

and what happened to that one nation undivided only month after 9/11? i would really like to know!

Personally, I don't feel like I have hardly anything at *all* in common with some people. And it's getting worse. I'm not sure if the Internet is creating it or just exposing it...but there is a divide in this country that I simply don't care if it closes. That's how foul I find some people.

No ****, I have seen evidence of your selfishness and pointless disdain for others numerous times. Its really sad, and frankly I feed bad for you. I pity you. But you have whole websites devoted to slamming Mike Moore, BTW- did you read his letter to BUSH? I agree with every word, so does 75% of the Country. The GOP is DOA guys.



And don’t forget to give medals to the guy who shot at the medical helicopter, so it left, instead of evacuating sick people. Such a hero!


And I never said or suggested that either Hittman.

The outrage stems from this obviousness. It does not take America 5+ days to Rescue people from their houses. The relief response has been inadequate, everyone- EVEN the president has admitted that. They need to get their asses in gear and start to realize that this situation is a whole lot bigger than 25,000 people in the Thunderdome or 11,000 people in Houston. We are talking about at least 100k people, that is a LOW estimation.

Now we find that Haliburton has been hired to work on restoration of Power and Electricity. Suprise, suprise. The Neo-Cons are doing everything to smear the victims, and attack critics of their reaction because they know its inadequate, they know that the Levees were defunded, they know the are f u c t. The Saddest Thing is that they may not even rebuild New Orleans- they must just raize everything on that strip of Gulf Coast and turn it into what Miami is now. A big gift to the developers who destroyed the Barriers islands that could have softened the storm surge but again- these details never seem to matter to you 2 so fine.

I am done with listening to you both mock he Victims and distort reality. You have to put words in my mouth and I don't really believe eiter of you care that much- There are no Red Cross or Relief Banners on either of your websites. You don't even have the decency to help get the word out to help these people, yet you criticize their actions and poke fun of human desparation.

Now go put them up right away and act like I am crazy again ok? I don't care just put them up.

Aren't you guys grown men? Seriously why would you act this way?
Disgusting. Put some RED cross banners up or something. At least pretend you care. Alot of us are trying to help others and get the word out through this format. You spend all this time bitching in forums but don't give a **** enough to put up a simple banner or advertisement to encourage people to help.

Heh.. what a joke. My Truth continues to piss you off and that always means the same thing.

Jack B.

[jimk]

There are no Red Cross or Relief Banners on either of your websites.

No one goes to my podcast site. I have relief banners AND free ads on both my high-traffic sites, and I've donated way more than I can afford.

[kickasspodcast]

As for the quality of the rescue effort, I’m quite sure many things could have been done much better. By everyone involved. Especially the looters and shooters and rapists and **** smearers.


Still blaming the victims eh? How pathetic. Not enough cojones to actually come out and admit what we have all been saying. BUSH fouled up again. Its just that you and Jimk refuse to agree with me on anything. This is why you still blame the victims and will not recognize greater fault. You both know Bush botched this one up too. I mean can you NAME ANYTHING he has ever done well? (except for Stealing national elections- he's got that down. Oh- and executing people- he's the MAN at that eh)


In any emergency, anywhere, nothing is ever fast enough, and it never will be until we invent transporters. There is always room for improvement. The fact is no one expected the levee to break, regardless of what some pundit said years ago. That’s the beauty of punditry – you can make predictions, and glory in the few that are correct, knowing that the majority of them, the wrong ones, will be forgotten.

Really? Can you give me another example of a Natural disaster (IN THE US- MODERN ERA)where black people were left to fend for them selves without food and water for 5 days? Can you even name one were 1000's of people cclaimed to have recieved no help or direction from FEMA or the Govt? I can't think of any- can you?

And nice spin on the whole pundit Line.
Here are some non-pundits who seem to disasgree with you Dave.

-The Army Corps of Engineers has been predicting this for years.

-SEN Mary Landrieu has stood on the Senate floor 100's of times demanding that the money be put back into the Levee.

-Walter Maestri
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4200/is_20050718/ai_n14780374
-Joe Suhuyda
http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcript_neworleans.html

The KOS is a pundit/blogger but he's usaully right anyways:
http://winger.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/8/31/75122/3676


But when they’re right, hoo boy! You can count on weasels with little shriveled souls to ferret them out and wave them over their pinheads while dancing around the bodies screaming, “It’s the president’s fault! It’s the president’s fault!�
Amazing you have to be one of the 143 people in this Time Zone who actually can defend Bush. Simply Astonishing. You think the rest of us are all just wrong huh? Call me arrogant? When in American History have 1000's of America pleaded for help on National TV only to have it come too little and too late.

Nobody made fun of you for working at target. I have probably had much worse jobs than that- BUT I don't go telling people I can "recalibrate" anything.

Jack B.

BTW- The Death Penalty is Totally Wrong in every way- But we can save that for another thead ok?

[Craig]

I'm getting tired of editing you guys for slander. If you can't argue the points instead of attacking each other on a personal level I'm going to start deleting posts outright again.

In the meantime, those posts that had nothing to do with this topic and were essentially just a continuation of the ongoing feud between Hittman, JimK, and kickasspodcast have been moved here:

http://www.podcastalley.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4468

Craig (Moderator)

[notyourusualbollocks]

Personally, I have little use for the man. His support for the PATRIOT act, the War On Some Drugs, the Real ID act, and the profoundly evil Ashcroft makes him despicable. For that matter, I can’t think of a single president in my lifetime that wasn’t a power grabbing statist who made the country less free.

I'm impressed. We've gone back to rational debate.

MK

[kickasspodcast]

LA Gov. Blanco's August 28, 2005 letter to Bush.

http://gov.louisiana.gov/Disaster%20Relief%20Request.pdf


Any Comments?

Jack B.

[jimk]

Have you even read it?

I doubt it very much. It's written in adultspeak.

The gist of it is, she asked for feds to CLEAN UP DEBRIS. And that's about it. She told them what the plans were...which were never followed. Now skip to teh end where she asks for stuff. She asked for debris removal and money to fund shelters and the police/guard details.

And that was all.

Then on August twenty-NINTH, the storm turned more severe. And she did nothing but fight with the feds over jurisdiction.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/03/AR2005090301680.html
Behind the scenes, a power struggle emerged, as federal officials tried to wrest authority from Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco (D). Shortly before midnight Friday, the Bush administration sent her a proposed legal memorandum asking her to request a federal takeover of the evacuation of New Orleans, a source within the state’s emergency operations center said Saturday.

The administration sought unified control over all local police and state National Guard units reporting to the governor. Louisiana officials rejected the request after talks throughout the night, concerned that such a move would be comparable to a federal declaration of martial law. Some officials in the state suspected a political motive behind the request. “Quite frankly, if they’d been able to pull off taking it away from the locals, they then could have blamed everything on the locals,� said the source, who does not have the authority to speak publicly.

A senior administration official said that Bush has clear legal authority to federalize National Guard units to quell civil disturbances under the Insurrection Act and will continue to try to unify the chains of command that are split among the president, the Louisiana governor and the New Orleans mayor.

Louisiana did not reach out to a multi-state mutual aid compact for assistance until Wednesday, three state and federal officials said.

She didn't even order the buses to be used until SEPTEMBER FIRST.


http://www.gov.state.la.us/Press_Release_detail.asp?id=991
Date: 9/1/2005

Contact:Denise Bottcher or Roderick Hawkins at 225-342-9037

Governor Blanco Announces Executive Order

Baton Rouge, LA— Governor Blanco today announced the following Executive Order:

Executive Order NO. KBB 2005- 31- provides that pursuant to the Louisiana Homeland Security and Emergency Assistance and Disaster Act, R.S. 29:721, et seq., grants emergency powers to the governor, where, she has in consultation with school superintendents, utilized public school buses for transportation of Hurricane Katrina evacuees. As you are aware most public school districts will not begin school until Tuesday, September 6th 2005.

Why? Why was that executive order not issued on the 28th? Or even the 29th when the storm went severe?

[docsnavely]

i don't know if you guys saw it today but CNN was interviewing the mayor of NO, and he was talking about the meeting he had with the gov and the pres.

apparently the mayor was making his requests to the two of them, and then the president shooed him out to talk to the gov. they dispersed, and the pres. came out and told mr. mayor that the gov wanted another 24 hours to decide on her decision on releasing more nat. guard, and requesting for the feds to take over relief efforts.

can you believe that dumbass needed to ponder for 24 hours on whether the better equipped federales should take over from her worn out, half fallen state's efforts?

it is amazing that her and chertoff keep saying the same **** over and over. the levis fell because of the hurricaine, not because it was a seperate incident!

flooding comes with hurricaines people. that dude chertoff makes me a bit aggrivated the way he shrugs off everything by saying that "this hurricane was stronger than everyone's predictions." WTF? are you serious? isn't it your job to make sure that nothing goes above your predictions? plan for the worst retard!

sorry, i'll shut up now. this is what happens when i watch CNN all day while quelling the screaming of a 2 year old!

[Hittman]

I saw him on 60 minutes, and he was saying the same thing – people were dying while the mucky-mucks bickered about jurisdiction.

Let’s see, who has more resources, the feds, or one of the poorest states in the nation? The governor should have been delighted to step aside and give full control to the feds. And from the reports of what was going on, marshal law would have been a good idea.

Interesting point on the show, though – according to 60 minutes, the levies didn’t break. They held up. The floodwalls broke. The effect was the same, but if this is true, makes all these miscreants whining about how it’s Bush’s fault the levee broke look even sillier.

Anyone ever spend any time in N.O.? I was there for a week once, quite a while ago, and loved every heat filled minute of it. The food was incredible. The music was amazing. Every city has it’s own personality. N.O. had more personality than any three other cities.

[docsnavely]

even if it were the flood walls, you can't really dispute the bullshit in reducing funds from the levee improvement project.

i know funding has to be cut everywhere so i can get paid and all, but that wasn't the smartest move.....