Keep Pods Real!! (The fight has begun)

[cdoelle]

That's right... the fight to Keep Pods Real is underway.

Riding with the window down... Show #15 (http://www.chrisdoelle.com/index.xml)gives you the blow by blow of the early rounds.

If you are a podcaster - this is a must-listen!

[TINKOFF RADIO]

I don't like to phrase it as a fight against the big guys - because I think in the end the listener will choose what they want to hear and it's ultimately the responsibility of the podcaster or whatever the content creation method is - to produce the highest quality show they can muster.

I did give this podcast a listen, and I think Chris has a good message here. I encourage you to take the time to check out this spirited rant about how the main stream media organizations are moving into independent territories and how it's up to all us to "keep it real" - which in my mind truly means - "keep it real GOOD" as far as quality is concerned.

Nice job man.

A

[richpav]

What fight? People are free to listen to whatever they want. If someone out there has a bunch of professional podcasts on their playlist and mine's there too, I'm flattered.

[cdoelle]

Its not so much a fight as a reminder to keep access available to the little guy.

Hey, its a rant - who said it had to make sense?

[richpav]

Little guys need to watch out for each other.

Apple's not running their podcasting directory as a public service. If it ends up not benefitting me as a podcaster, the way I figure, I haven't actually LOST anything, but as a listener I quite like it.

I realize some podcasters are looking to being prominently listed in the directory as a shot at the big times. I'm just having fun, meeting people and getting practice at facing my fears. (I'm kinda shy.) There are other ways for people to find my podcast, and enough of them do.

Look at the bright side--who would you rather have as your Daddy, Apple or Microsoft? iTunes isn't perfect, but it could be a heck of a lot worse.

Maybe a lot of podcasters collectively whining will get Apple's attention. Personally, I can't stand whining, so I try not to.

[Hittman]

Hey, its a rant - who said it had to make sense?

Anybody who appreciates a good rant. Listen to the masters of the rant: Dennis Miller, George Carlin or Lewis Black. Their rants resonate with the listener because they make perfect sense. They're not based on nonsense or unfounded assumptions.

I'm listening to your podcast as I type this.

This has the potential of being shut down?

Absolute nonsense. You really think this could be legislated or licensed? Sorry, that's just dumb. They can't even slow down music downloads, with the full force of bought-and-paid-for congress and the relentless *IAA. It will be a couple of years before congress weasels even know what podcasts are, and at that point they'll start making their own. (I understand there are a couple already doing this.)

You mention the portals being cut off, overwhelmed by iTunes. Do you think this place is going anywhere? Or Podcast Pickle, or any of the other 50 directories that are out there?

So you listened to the commercial stuff, thought it was neat at first, but quickly got bored and went back to the indies you like. What makes you think other people aren’t going to do the exact same thing? Some won't, but many will. And that's when they'll discover us. Then tell their friends about it. And eventually, the independent podcasts will reach the tipping point. I don't know when it will happen – maybe in a couple months, maybe in a year, hell, maybe in two years, but I do believe it will happen.

Refusing to subscribe to comercialcasts won't accomplish anything either. I have my own personal boycotts – I don't buy from Wal-Mart, because it is the epitome of corporate evil, or purchase anything that has anything to do with Michael Moore or Rob Reiner or Ann Coulter, because I consider them all vile. . . but I'm not silly enough to think that's going to have any measurable effect on anyone's bottom line. I like KCRW's Le Show, and will continue to listen to it. If I were to unsubscribe, what would that accomplish? (Please be specific.)

Ian's show is syndicated on five radio stations. He sells advertising on the broadcast version, and asks for donations on the podcast (which I think is quite cheesy). That makes it a commercial podcast. I subscribe because the content is decidedly non-commercial. (By that I mean it's not like the commercial radio out there. He is a die hard capitalist. (Which is a good thing.)) Should I unsubscribe because it's commercial? And if I do, how will that help podcasting?

If you open a hardware store, you're going to be competing with Home Depot and Lowe's. In my area, they put several very good (and a few not so good) hardware stores out of business. The cost of entry into such a business is huge, and if you decided to try it, you're going to be competing with the big boys. Period. That's a fact of life, an important part of the way capitalism works.

You talk about the cost of entry for podcasts being too high. I call bullshit. I made my first podcast for free. I already had a $10 mike, software and a web site. If I didn't have any of that stuff, I could have gotten into it with an initial investment of less than thirty bucks, and an ongoing expense of ten bucks a month. That's a barrier to entry? So far I've been doing this for three months, and have invested about $40 in it. (I bought a better mike.) The only cheaper hobbies I can think of are reading and masturbation.

Your rant about adding tags being a barrier is also nonsense. If you've got a keyboard it doesn't cost anything to put more tags in your RSS feed. It's annoying and obnoxious, but it's not a cost. And I hate to tell you this, but I haven't got around to putting them in my feed yet, and I never submitted to Apple, but my cast has been there since day one. I don't know where they got it, nor do I care, but if they were really trying to squeeze out the little guy, I wouldn't be there. If they had left me out, I would have been the only one who noticed.

I don't like what Apple is doing. I think it sucks. I think the people who made this what it is should be there, prominently displayed, and the commercialcasts put somewhere else entirely. But it's there, it's not likely to change, and that's the way it is. Meanwhile, the horrible horrible Apple has driven people to my show, and my website, and my voice is being heard along with everyone else's. I don't have to open a store, I don’t have to invest in inventory, I don't have to hire employees or take out licenses (nor will I ever have to) or buy a transmitter or answer to the FCC.

I am in direct competition with every commercial cast, as well as every indie cast, out there. You win by finding your audience and giving them what they like, not by complaining that the big boys are raking in the cash.

I have an Improv troupe that does local shows once a month. We almost always sell out a 30 seat theater, but it took us years to get to that point. I have lamented, briefly, that if just .001% of the people in the area who are spending their evening going to the movies, watching DVDs, or watching insipid, commercial filled, uninspired sitcoms at home, would come to a show, we could fill a 1,000 seat theater every night and make a **** good living doing what we love. But I don't dwell on it, or whine about it, or work any less hard to put on a **** good, professional show. That's the way it is, and we ain't gonna change it. If we spent the show whining, even once, even briefly, about the people who weren’t coming to see us, we'd lose our carefully cultivated fanbase very quickly, and rightly so.

So I'll keep listening to LeShow. I'll keep downloading the "commercial" Free Talk Live. And I'll keep enjoying Mental Escher and Bandtrax and 5 Minutes with Wichita and Skepticallity and the three dozen other shows in my iPodder. And I'll keep doing my little show, with my little "studio" which consists of nothing more than a single mike and a computer, and never, ever use it as a platform to whine about someone who is more successful than I am.

[kickasspodcast]

Listen to the masters of the rant: Dennis Miller, George Carlin or Lewis Black


Hitt~ I should have expected as much from a Target Professional like yourself.

You put Dennis Miller before G. Carlin or Lewis Black?!?!

Dennis Miller isn't the master of anything. More proof that you know nothing.

I don't buy from Wal-Mart, because it is the epitome of corporate evil, or purchase anything that has anything to do with Michael Moore or Rob Reiner or Ann Coulter,


WTF does Michael Moore, Rob R. or Ann Coulter have to do with jack **** dude? Nothing I tell you. You make no sense in your long *** unoriginal rants. Your show has no potential in or out of itunes. So give this guy a break and c.t.f.o.

Go spew more of your "destoying cultures" routine.. maybe it will win you some more self loathing Homocons!

Shame on you...

PS-Obviously you don't shop at Wal-Mart either, you are clearly some sad old man who works at Target.

So call me boy, talk sh_t about me in threads I have nothing do do with.. whatever.. just try and keep up.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/lshawelu/ohsnap1.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/lshawelu/thoh_snap.gif

@ Cdoelle

Hell ya Man!
itunes shouldn't act like they are doing a public service if they aren't. They shouldn't have people going around telling all of us how wonderful they will be for our community. Its a crying shame when people are willing to get potentially more listeners by allowing itunes to shamelessly exploit, corporatize, and diminish the essence of everything good about podcasting/audio webcasting.


Jack B.
-out
The AntiSmartenizer

WE will be at the Portable Media Expo in Ontario, CA. Can't wait to see ya there. ;)


@Moderator-
This dude has been pestering me and talking smack about me, forgive me if I give it right back to em'

[Hittman]

Thank you for proving my point about how un-entertaining it is when stupid people rant about something they know nothing about. Which, in your case, would appear to be every subject on the planet.

[kickasspodcast]

Dude w/e

Your bitching about Michael Moore and Wal-Mart doesn't have anymore
to do with what cdoelle said, than me calling you out on your usual BS.

You talk about over modulation?
What a joke- funny to hear any show advice from the guy who "Smartenizes".

You are the only person to ever say anything about our production. I don't claim it is the best, but its a bit more complicated when you record for more than 5 minutes.

You called this guy out, told him he was a moron and wrong for ranting.
I never told you to shut up. I haven't even been on these forums, I find you trashing me in threads I haven't even posted in. Whatever Dave. You cannot appreciate the lessons that are taught in nature anymore than you can appreciate someone elses point of view.

Keep making more excuses for your show, its just you, no staff, only you and 1 computer bla bla bla. We all do the same thing. Every show we do is not great 100% of the time. We have 20 shows all about 40-60 min. Its likely you will find some of those hours not to be your favorite, easy to make fun of etc.. But buddy, we hold our heads up and know that we do our best to actually produce a truly Kickass Show. We play music nearly 50% of the time and we also do alot more than talk about target or or lie to people and say that second hand smoke is as safe as cotton candy.

You are a liar dude. We have called you out on this before. Yet you refuse to refute any of it. You say I know nothing bla bla bla... Gets old fast when people like you try and slam some new guy for expressing his opinion.

How does it feel to get some back? Keep talking about over modulation and fogerty as if anyone gives a ****. Don't you get it?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/lshawelu/ohsnap1.gif


The AntiSmartenizer

No ****. You couldn't be less smart if you tried.

Are you kidding me? Smartenized isn't even a word, why are you still hooked on that lame *** smartenized crap? I am smart enough to know when old men tell me words that don't exist, then proceed to spout hate and intolerance.

Bringing up Charles too?
In the same post you accused me of being off topic. The usual hypocrisy...at least you are consistant.

j

Moderator:
Unlike Dave, I won't tell you how to do your job. Thanks for allowing open exchange of opinions on this forum.

[cdoelle]

Thus is the power of a good rant... you get folks like Dittzman who take life waaaay too serious and feel the need to go off on in an attempt to prop themselves up.

Does it really make you feel better when you use inane and juvenile logic in an attempt to feel better about yourself? How sad that must be...

PS. Hittman... next time don't bring a rubber knife to a nuclear war - you don't have the intelligence to play logic games with me. And it looks like the rest of the podcast world can see through you too.

[FX]

I enjoyed listening to Chris's rant and can understand his concerns about big media getting into podcasting.

Guys, it's just a rant. Listen, enjoy, take what you can from it. Not everything has to be turned into knife fight to the death. :)

[Hittman]

Cdoelle , I just edited most of my spew back at idiot boy out of my post, because I realized I was sinking to his level, and that's very low indeed. But it looks like he found himself a new buddy. He must be so happy! And after hearing your rant, I'm not suprised you think his is good.

If you want or need to thrive on a persecution complex, be my guest. I thought I was offering some friendly advice, and pointing out some serious flaws in your conclusions. I note you didn't address a single thing I said, any more that Kick*****le did. Sorry you couldn't handle it.

I bow to the superior intelligence of someone who thinks podcasting can be legislated out of existence, thinks getting substantially more listeners is a bad thing, and thinks unsubscribeing to popular casts is going to accomplish anything. You're way to smart for me . . .

[cdoelle]

Hittman, you totally miss the point. I did not address your "points" because they are of no concern to me.

You go off with pride saying you won't use your podcast to whine about big business taking over... but then you proudly say you listen to Free Talk Live - that is all they do. So is the point that you will listen to it but won't take any action? Or maybe its just that the only action you are brave enough to do is to criticize other people's posts and podcasts?

You are the one that started "ranting" about my rant - criticizing my opinion - criticizing KAPodcast's show - criticizing everything. What people are trying to say to you is that you are doing the very thing you are ranting against - rants.

Its called irony and it is quite humorous.

As far as whether or not he is "good" as you put it - I have no idea... all I know is that he did nothing to attack me for having an opinion or exercising my right to free speech and you have done nothing but. There was nothing "friendly" in your post... it was a slam plain and simple - at least own up to it when you rant... especially when you are criticising someone for ranting. Haha

[docsnavely]

Alright, Alright, we all have big penises and we can all piss on each other all day long...... give it up!

Someone posted a rant (good points), someone else posted a rebuttal (also good points), and then others (like myself) start walking in adding our two cents, and everyone gets all butt hurt!

Get a life, work on your casts and take each others rants and rebuttals for what they are worth. Aren't we all supposed to be supporting each other?

p.s. quit the personal attacks. it does nothing but add animosity to the boards, and i can't learn **** with you bickering like a bunch of kids!

[cdoelle]

p.s. quit the personal attacks. it does nothing but add animosity to the boards, and i can't learn **** with you bickering like a bunch of kids!

Well said.

[jimk]

Character really shines through in this thread. You can see who has it and who doesn't.

[docsnavely]

character is in the eye of the beholder.....

[jimk]

character is in the eye of the beholder.....

I disagree. I don't believe its all relative. I believe it's quite concrete and independently quantifiable.

[docsnavely]

true, but it depends on what you count as a quantifiable aspect of behavior......

[cdoelle]

And the funny part is - this thread began as a simple show announcement...

[Hittman]

Hittman, you totally miss the point. I did not address your "points" because they are of no concern to me.

Every single point was a counterpoint to one of your points, so how could they be "of no concern" to you? That's nonsense. A more reasonable conclusion is that you just couldn't handle yourself, couldn't defend your positions. I was looking forward to a robust debate. It's no fun for either of us when you chicken out like that.

You go off with pride saying you won't use your podcast to whine about big business taking over... but then you proudly say you listen to Free Talk Live - that is all they do.

Ah, now I'm beginning to understand. You have a comprehension problem. Listening to FTL and proclaiming all they do is whine about big business like complaining about the graphic sex scenes in The Sound of Music, or the pro-Bush agenda of a Michael Moore film. I can only say "Huh? How can anyone listen to that show and draw that conclusion?" FTL are libertarians, and as such are die hard capitalists. They love business, big business, small business and medium size business, except when it stomps on the liberty of citizens.

So is the point that you will listen to it but won't take any action? Or maybe its just that the only action you are brave enough to do is to criticize other people's posts and podcasts?

The only podcast I've ever criticized on here is Kickass's, and that was only when he used his show to bitch about me, and bragged about it in this forum. Otherwise, considering his stunning ignorance on every subject he discusses here, I never would have bothered. I've heard hundreds of bad podcasts, but never said anything about them, because no one asked my opinion of them.

As for posts, you're **** right I criticize posts. In turn I expect mine to be criticized. It's called conversation. It's something that many grownups enjoy.

You are the one that started "ranting" about my rant - criticizing my opinion - criticizing KAPodcast's show - criticizing everything. What people are trying to say to you is that you are doing the very thing you are ranting against - rants.

There's that comprehension problem on public display again.

Ranting against rants? I love a good rant. Lewis Black is the best part of the Daily Show. Dennis Miller is high on my list of Tivo subscriptions. Hell, my show is a rant. So how could I be ranting against rants?

I'm ranting against an attitude and opinions that, IMO, are both dumb and counterproductive. It doesn't matter if they're expressed in a rant, in a boring monotone, or somewhere in between. It's the opinions I wanted to discuss, and you've evaded and avoided discussing them over and over again.

As far as whether or not he is "good" as you put it - I have no idea... all I know is that he did nothing to attack me for having an opinion or exercising my right to free speech and you have done nothing but. There was nothing "friendly" in your post... it was a slam plain and simple - at least own up to it when you rant... especially when you are criticising someone for ranting. Haha

And there it is on display again.

If you're so delicate that you consider my first response an attack, if you have such tender sensibilities that you consider posting an opposing opinion fighting your right to free speech, I would suggest you get off the internet, and stay off, because it gets rough out here. Buy yourself a nice little Nerf house, grind the pointy ends off any kitchen knives, and make sure you pad every corner and every rough edge in your home. You'll find all the supplies you need in the "childproofing" section of your local hardware store. But be careful in there, because some of the isles are full of sharp pointy stuff that could give you a boo-boo.

I guess your picture threw me off. You look like a tough, burley guy, and I thought you'd enjoy mixing it up a bit. You looked like someone who wouldn't back away from a good argument, but would dive in head first and make me defend every idea and opinion I expressed. I was looking forward to it. Instead you completely wussed out . I'm sorry, I should know better than to judge by appearances, even when the assumptions I make are positive ones. I apologize for that mistake, and from now on will take your tender sensibilities into account when I reply to any of your posts.

[docsnavely]

You two need your own personal topic on these forums so you can go at it all by yourselves. It's getting to be tiresome now watching the two of you. It's downright predictable what you are each going to say....

KAP:"Hitt, you're just an *****le who is secretly in love with michael more. You republicans are all the same!"

HITT:"KAP, you are a non-sensical liberal who only knows how to insult and throw slander. Grow up!"

ugh.......

<floodgates>

[cdoelle]

This is getting downright comical.

[docsnavely]

:lol:

[kickasspodcast]

Heh...

Just listen to Hittman's show and then it will totally recalibrate your bullshit meter.

Honestly.... you will never take him serious again.

Hey

hey doelle

Welcome to the terror dome that often is the PCA forums! Muhahah...
i have to take several weeks off because of stuff like this.
I listened to a few of your shows and they are solid. Hittman should be asking you for advice on how not to put people asleep.

F' em if they can't make a show.


I'm out.

Jack

[docsnavely]

lockity lockity?

[Hittman]

Honestly.... you will never take him serious again.

I bleive the word you were looking for was seriously.

i have to take several weeks off because of stuff like this.

Poor baby. Maybe you can he can get a group discount on the childproofing supplies.

And with that, I'm done with the thread. You wussies can keep pretending to be tough, kickass guys, but you're already revealed you're nothing more than whiney wimps. Have fun sharing your towering intellects with each other.

[vox_monitor]

character is in the eye of the beholder.....

I disagree. I don't believe its all relative. I believe it's quite concrete and independently quantifiable.

You're half right - it is absolute, and concrete - but, and here's the kicker - any firm statements defining it are wrong. I know, it sounds contradictory, but that's how it is. Concrete, yes. Quantifiable, no.

[Charles]

p.s. quit the personal attacks. it does nothing but add animosity to the boards, and i can't learn **** with you bickering like a bunch of kids!

Well said.

And the whole forum resonates with Applause! 8)

[richpav]

Agreed, the personal attacks that flare up here are a real turn-off. If someone yanks your chain, you don't need to yank back. Just drop the frikkin' chain and walk away.

It would be cool, though, if the people who dislike each other here could be the entertainment at the next Gnomedex or whatever. A bloody and gruesome podcaster deathmatch would really get the attention of the mainstream.

[Charles]

It would be cool, though, if the people who dislike each other here could be the entertainment at the next Gnomedex or whatever. A bloody and gruesome podcaster deathmatch would really get the attention of the mainstream.

LMAO! :lol:

Only thing is that since they couldn't even last a round, they would need to fight their "deathmatch" in wheelchairs :wink:

[kickasspodcast]

Honestly.... you will never take him serious again.

I bleive the word you were looking for was seriously.



I Believe the word you were looking for was believe, I laughed so hard when I read this!

Or are you going to edit this one too? Prove once again you have no testicular fortitude.

Everyone seriously.. just go to http://davehitt.com/
Listen to any of his shows, read his articles. You will rapidly gain a more complete understanding of how entirely unoriginal hittman is.

This is some funny stuff... I mean the cast of characters would make for good TV. Hittman tried to slam me when I was new to PCA too. Because I gave it right back to him and called him out on his BS, he has been this hateful ever since. He wants to destroy whole cultures. He has said it like a million times. He will deny it just like he edits his post, because he is a coward.
I said this the 1st time i saw one of his early hate-filled rants. I told him that he was an obviously very terrified man, I explained it was clear he had not come to terms with 9/11 or the anger he still feels. I can appreciate that. We all have/had to cope with the evil we deal with in the world. Some people like Hitt haven't quite been able to deal with it yet. Its simply important for the rest of us to recognize it.

Ever since I said that he has truly hated me. I don't really care, I don't take this personally- but he has gone out of his way to smear me, its a good thing he has no credibility. People who listen to his show know that.

Fosco and I were listening to a recent Quickhitts about how Second hand smoke is great. You should listen to that show right now.

Listen to your own show Dave. I trust in your show enough that everyone can listen to it and most of them will feel the same way I do.
Its boring at best, at worst its insulting to people.

You just better work on your show and not spend so much time telling people they are always wrong about everything.

Some advice:
Try using facts instead of spinning some letter you got from some dude named Repace.

Try saying something you didn'thear on Neal Boortz, Rusty Humphrees, or Sean Hannity. Hanitized, Smartenized hmm.... now I get it!

Try taking a risk on your show. Put the script down and just talk about life, your day, whatever. IF you are not willing to take risks on your show then its never going to be worth listening to.

Nobody's show is perfect, nobody knows how many people are listening to anyone elses show.

If you keep trying to slam people, I will always be there to call out your BS and stick up for the other guy.

[jimk]

Script or not, it still comes from the creator. Complaining about that is one of the most ridiculous and idiotic criticisms one could levy.

Carrying the logic further, all musicians who do not perform spontaneously each and every performance are uncreative scum who don't take risks. HOW DARE THEY WRITE AND PREPARE AHEAD OF TIME!

If you keep trying to slam people

Funny, that's all you do. It's like, ironical or sumpthin'. You're so meta.

[vox_monitor]

yeah, I like the hittman's show too. t'aint perfect, but then neither is KAP.

[kickasspodcast]

Carrying the logic further, all musicians who do not perform spontaneously each and every performance are uncreative scum who don't take risks. HOW DARE THEY WRITE AND PREPARE AHEAD OF TIME!


Actually Jim, 95% of my favorite Bands play spontaneously and go with the music. Maybe a rough idea of what the set will be like, but its the creativity that counts. If you like going to see Billy Joel or Brittney Spears sing the same 12 songs everytime- then god bless.

@ Vox

Now it goes without saying that I never said our show is perfect.
We are a conent providers. On our site you won't find links
smearing liberal smoking nazis nor will you be bombarded by
the obvious propaganda that is present in many other sites. We think
there is a huge difference between being a content provider and trying
to be a spin machine. You can just tell by the links and how he directs people through his site, that he is more interested in changing peoples ideas by preaching his own ideology than regularly kicking out a highly entertaining show.

-Even though I agree with Hitt on more than a few things, (decrim, property rights) I can still set those shared opinions aside and look at the show critically. If it really mattered, I would ask you some tough questions:

What you like best about the show?
What makes the show original or uncommon?
How does the show add to the overall podosphere?
What about his show is different than what is already available on AM/FM Talk radio?
Why does it make sense to you when he repeatedly says "They","They","They" in a tin-foil hat kinda way?

I know alot of people may not like what Fosco and I talk about, we all have opinions and thats cool. However, we do our best not to mimic AM radio talking heads. I really think his show is unoriginal, I think thats the bottom line.

Its nearly fruitless to continue political/ideological conversations with Hitt or Jim, I am sure they feel the same about chats with yours truly. We have gone round and round before and its obvious we just are opposites politically. With that having been established its pretty clear that Hitt or Jim or I are going to pretty much always slam or be against the people who are on the other end of the political spectrum.

I have seen Hitt, Jimk and even myself take on people who disagree fundamentally. I think that their ideology is harmful to the world, so why wouldn't I go after it?

Keep in mind this little game of tag is a 2 way street. I have been called a schmuck, a liar, a piece **** etc... don't expect the boyz from the kickass podcast to roll over.

And Jim, the big difference between you and me is that I don't tend to slam people on our show. I usually save some of that for the forums because it gives the people you are going after the ability to talk back. You on the other hand repeatedly attack people on your show- which is fine, but don't pretend you don't.

This is really fruitless i know, I think as the community evolves everything will continue to shape and flex around the changes to come.

Frankly, I haven't gone after anyone who hasn't gone after me 1st.
This all started when someone made a new show announcement and Hitt tried to slam them. Forgive me for trying to help defend the guy.


Jack

[vox_monitor]

What you like best about the show?
What makes the show original or uncommon?
How does the show add to the overall podosphere?
What about his show is different than what is already available on AM/FM Talk radio?
Why does it make sense to you when he repeatedly says "They","They","They" in a tin-foil hat kinda way?

I like it for the same reason I like Andy Rooney. It's level headed and pleasant to listen to editorial content. I also like its length.

I like hamburgers from a place called tops. Are they uncommon? no. Original? not particularly. But they're good eatin'.

Well, it adds audio content, in 10 minute increments.

I've never heard anything like it on the radio, frankly. 10 minutes of straight, calm - almost sedate at points - small government, non-partisan editorial content? I can't say I've ever heard that on the radio. Granted I don't listen to much radio.

Well it would depend on the specific instance. "They," meaning the government, really do conspire against us you know. Sometimes just because it's the nature of beauracracy to grow, to seek ever more power and resources, and to justify itself by doing stuff. And sometimes more nefariously. The whole "tin foil hat" thing is really dismissive of very legitimate lines of inquiry. They issue isn't whether one believes there is a conspiracy. The issue is by what logical mechanism does one draw that conclusion.[/quote]

[vox_monitor]

Actually Jim, 95% of my favorite Bands play spontaneously and go with the music. Maybe a rough idea of what the set will be like, but its the creativity that counts.

Forgive me for saying so, but this is a very foolish aesthetic philosophy. Each work must be judged entirely on its own merits.

Additionally, songs are entities with distinct and exact identities. Sometimes improvisation is an excellent way to manifest one such entity. Sometimes a more "executive" approach is a better way to go.

Often, improvisational elements serve only to muddy a true song, and undermine its resonance.

Creativity. Is a novelist creative? Every good novel has undergone painstaking revision and planning. Stream of consciousness writing, on the other hand, almost always sucks.

An artist ought to embrace all tools available to him in the pursuit of making good art. Spontanaity (sp?) is one such tool. To consider any tool, however, as the means to making good art is to place the cart before the horse. Pursue good art. Choose the tool that the work demands - the one most likely to engender a faithful manifestation of the work's truth.

thanks,

eric

[jimk]

If you like going to see Billy Joel or Brittney Spears sing the same 12 songs everytime- then god bless.

That's quite typical of your level of discourse. You don't know anything about my taste in music, so you default to what you think will be a really scathing insult. Meanwhile Billy Joel has more talent in his little finger than you could ever dream of. Play the piano much, Captain Jack? Joel has forgotten more technique and theory that you'll ever learn.

Of course you got me on Spears. I think we can both agree the only thing she needs is a stunbolt to the head and quickly.

ANYWAY...interestingly, noodlerock, like a lot of jazz, always sounds spontaneous to listeners who don't know what it means to be a musician. The "explorations" are almost always small bridges to set pieces. Try a music theory class, it may help you understand better. I was watching Garcia play Darkstar when you weren't old enough to be left at home alone. I was a tape trader before you knew what tapes were. You can't teach me about noodlerock, kiddo.

And Jim, the big difference between you and me is that I don't tend to slam people on our show.

What a lovely piece of revisionist history.

Meanwhile, you run around like an ill-informed attack dog who has no interest in the opinions of anyone but yourself and anyone who validates your existing beliefs. But hey, if that's your gimmick, live it up! Just be HONEST about it. Show some integrity. Live your words and be who you say you'll be, one way or the other.

[jimk]

Choose the tool that the work demands - the one most likely to engender a faithful manifestation of the work's truth.

Beautifully stated...if you ever do an interview with mass media that gives cause to put forth that idea, save that phrase, said just that way. It's precise and powerful.

I love a good sentence. :)

[vox_monitor]

Choose the tool that the work demands - the one most likely to engender a faithful manifestation of the work's truth.

Beautifully stated...if you ever do an interview with mass media that gives cause to put forth that idea, save that phrase, said just that way. It's precise and powerful.

I love a good sentence. :)

Thanks, homie! If I might indulge is a somewhat self-serving suggestion....

I think you'd very much enjoy our "Theory about Art and Truth" which is currently being post in parts on Vox Monitor. I put up a new part every other day. We're currently on part 7. www.voxmonitor.com

Or you can find the whole thing - about 50 pages - here:

www.popgoeslethal.com/text

Thanks again for your ego-gratifying words. Like most people, I love praise.

eric

[docsnavely]

It would be cool, though, if the people who dislike each other here could be the entertainment at the next Gnomedex or whatever. A bloody and gruesome podcaster deathmatch would really get the attention of the mainstream.

your idea is good, but I still like my flame thread idea......

chris could set it up so where anytime a flame war erupts, the current thread could be moved to a separate topic where those involved could hash it out, and we could all watch, point, and laugh.....

.....all without interrupting the topic being discussed.....

[jimk]

I think you'd very much enjoy our "Theory about Art and Truth" which is currently being post in parts on Vox Monitor. I put up a new part every other day. We're currently on part 7. www.voxmonitor.com

I will definitely check it out.

[vox_monitor]

Hey, its a rant - who said it had to make sense?

Anybody who appreciates a good rant. Listen to the masters of the rant: Dennis Miller, George Carlin or Lewis Black. Their rants resonate with the listener because they make perfect sense. They're not based on nonsense or unfounded assumptions.

I'm listening to your podcast as I type this.

This has the potential of being shut down?

Absolute nonsense. You really think this could be legislated or licensed? Sorry, that's just dumb. They can't even slow down music downloads, with the full force of bought-and-paid-for congress and the relentless *IAA. It will be a couple of years before congress weasels even know what podcasts are, and at that point they'll start making their own. (I understand there are a couple already doing this.)

You mention the portals being cut off, overwhelmed by iTunes. Do you think this place is going anywhere? Or Podcast Pickle, or any of the other 50 directories that are out there?

So you listened to the commercial stuff, thought it was neat at first, but quickly got bored and went back to the indies you like. What makes you think other people aren’t going to do the exact same thing? Some won't, but many will. And that's when they'll discover us. Then tell their friends about it. And eventually, the independent podcasts will reach the tipping point. I don't know when it will happen – maybe in a couple months, maybe in a year, hell, maybe in two years, but I do believe it will happen.

Refusing to subscribe to comercialcasts won't accomplish anything either. I have my own personal boycotts – I don't buy from Wal-Mart, because it is the epitome of corporate evil, or purchase anything that has anything to do with Michael Moore or Rob Reiner or Ann Coulter, because I consider them all vile. . . but I'm not silly enough to think that's going to have any measurable effect on anyone's bottom line. I like KCRW's Le Show, and will continue to listen to it. If I were to unsubscribe, what would that accomplish? (Please be specific.)

Ian's show is syndicated on five radio stations. He sells advertising on the broadcast version, and asks for donations on the podcast (which I think is quite cheesy). That makes it a commercial podcast. I subscribe because the content is decidedly non-commercial. (By that I mean it's not like the commercial radio out there. He is a die hard capitalist. (Which is a good thing.)) Should I unsubscribe because it's commercial? And if I do, how will that help podcasting?

If you open a hardware store, you're going to be competing with Home Depot and Lowe's. In my area, they put several very good (and a few not so good) hardware stores out of business. The cost of entry into such a business is huge, and if you decided to try it, you're going to be competing with the big boys. Period. That's a fact of life, an important part of the way capitalism works.

You talk about the cost of entry for podcasts being too high. I call bullshit. I made my first podcast for free. I already had a $10 mike, software and a web site. If I didn't have any of that stuff, I could have gotten into it with an initial investment of less than thirty bucks, and an ongoing expense of ten bucks a month. That's a barrier to entry? So far I've been doing this for three months, and have invested about $40 in it. (I bought a better mike.) The only cheaper hobbies I can think of are reading and masturbation.

Your rant about adding tags being a barrier is also nonsense. If you've got a keyboard it doesn't cost anything to put more tags in your RSS feed. It's annoying and obnoxious, but it's not a cost. And I hate to tell you this, but I haven't got around to putting them in my feed yet, and I never submitted to Apple, but my cast has been there since day one. I don't know where they got it, nor do I care, but if they were really trying to squeeze out the little guy, I wouldn't be there. If they had left me out, I would have been the only one who noticed.

I don't like what Apple is doing. I think it sucks. I think the people who made this what it is should be there, prominently displayed, and the commercialcasts put somewhere else entirely. But it's there, it's not likely to change, and that's the way it is. Meanwhile, the horrible horrible Apple has driven people to my show, and my website, and my voice is being heard along with everyone else's. I don't have to open a store, I don’t have to invest in inventory, I don't have to hire employees or take out licenses (nor will I ever have to) or buy a transmitter or answer to the FCC.

I am in direct competition with every commercial cast, as well as every indie cast, out there. You win by finding your audience and giving them what they like, not by complaining that the big boys are raking in the cash.

I have an Improv troupe that does local shows once a month. We almost always sell out a 30 seat theater, but it took us years to get to that point. I have lamented, briefly, that if just .001% of the people in the area who are spending their evening going to the movies, watching DVDs, or watching insipid, commercial filled, uninspired sitcoms at home, would come to a show, we could fill a 1,000 seat theater every night and make a **** good living doing what we love. But I don't dwell on it, or whine about it, or work any less hard to put on a **** good, professional show. That's the way it is, and we ain't gonna change it. If we spent the show whining, even once, even briefly, about the people who weren’t coming to see us, we'd lose our carefully cultivated fanbase very quickly, and rightly so.

So I'll keep listening to LeShow. I'll keep downloading the "commercial" Free Talk Live. And I'll keep enjoying Mental Escher and Bandtrax and 5 Minutes with Wichita and Skepticallity and the three dozen other shows in my iPodder. And I'll keep doing my little show, with my little "studio" which consists of nothing more than a single mike and a computer, and never, ever use it as a platform to whine about someone who is more successful than I am.

here here! well said.

[kickasspodcast]

Part I
OK, this will be long, but 1/2 as long as it was about 2 minutes ago. I responded to every one of Vox's answers and then read it back. I decided i could sum it up alot shorter.

@Vox
Hittman has a Spin/Propaganda show. He admits it in every show. What do you think smartenized means? Recalibrate your BS meter? Its a propaganda show and I hate propaganda shows. I am really suprised you enjoy such an obvious spin show. Its only calm because he records a sentence at a time(reading it off a script) then pauses, drinks water and repeats. you can hear the cookie cutter paragraphs in every show- yet he talks about my occasional overmodulation. I don't like scripted shows anymore than I like Spin Shows. These are just my opinions.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on his show. To me originality in podcasting is everything. To me, content is NOT king. Original content is king. Not everyone agrees with this, obviously. If I wanna hear people trash liberals or lie about 2nd hand smoke I can get that on contemporary Talk radio, check it out man, the talk radio guys say the same thing. About Global Warming, 2nd Hand Smoke, Stepford Employees oh and how could I forget "Schivo". The Last Word on Schivo
I don't think I've ever been as sick of a news story as I am about the Schivo case....

We have to agree to disagree on this one Vox.


Part II
@Jimk

If you like going to see Billy Joel or Brittney Spears sing the same 12 songs everytime- then god bless.

That's quite typical of your level of discourse. You don't know anything about my taste in music, so you default to what you think will be a really scathing insult. Meanwhile Billy Joel has more talent in his little finger than you could ever dream of. Play the piano much, Captain Jack? Joel has forgotten more technique and theory that you'll ever learn.


I did play piano, but I am no Joel...I play drums now...(more &*$%)..anyways...

If you can't understand the commercial reference to Spears and Joel and their calculated live performances, then the rest of this will go way over your head. As far as him having talent, hard to play the piano.. give me a break dude... I just said he didn't play orig sets and was commercial. Don't put words in my mouth or tell me its hard to play piano


ANYWAY...interestingly, noodlerock, like a lot of jazz, always sounds spontaneous to listeners who don't know what it means to be a musician.

The "explorations" are almost always small bridges to set pieces. Try a music theory class, it may help you understand better. I was watching Garcia play Darkstar when you weren't old enough to be left at home alone. I was a tape trader before you knew what tapes were. You can't teach me about noodlerock, kiddo.

As a deadhead, and trader myself, I wont fall into this obvious trap to try to get me to call you out on you being at early shows. But what you said in bold contradicts itself Jim. To anyone who isnt a head' or doesn't know the music, there is no way of knowing. In your attempt to slam me with the predictably malicious 'I was a deadhead 1st' bit (that is totally lame) you showed your hand in that Darkstar is a massively complex explorational journey. To say that darkstar is a "set piece" is also catagorically false.

The "explorations" you say are "always small bridges to set pieces". Well Jim, what kinda 11 minute "exploration" leads into a 20 minute "journey" of a song like darkstar. You see I too, really know that music. This won't mean **** to anyone who doesnt' but its hands down the most important point to me in this entire thread.

I was a latch key kid too Jim. ;)

What a lovely piece of revisionist history.
Meanwhile, you run around like an ill-informed attack dog who has no interest in the opinions of anyone but yourself
Revisionist history. Hah! You so prove my point.
http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_6964.shtml
Awesome attempted Rove Tactic! Accuse your enemy of what you are.
Nice try again!

I like opinions, they make for good entertainment. I have alot more interest in fact. Something you no nothing about. That is the one poor streak I see in too many topic specificshows. No facts, just opinion. If you are going to be a political show. Use facts, we do when we talk politics, you don't. I have heard you lie about countless facts simply because you disagree politically.
IE: Downing Street Memo
http://downingstreetmemo.com/
If its just your opinion, say so. We don't lie about facts because we disagree. Some people will believe total BS just because they agree.

You still are awesome for your predictable posts and savvy attacks. Its great excercise for my brain and fingers. I really wish you would care more about the truth, something tells me you are probably a nice guy. Its a shame the worst thing about any forum. You don't get the chance to know a person before you entirely disagree with them, call them satan and step on their neck. At least I consider you Jim to be entirely formidable. You could say I even respect you. Hey, what a nice way to end this post. :)


Have fun-

Captain Jack B.

KAPC PCA Disclaimer:
These are just my opinions.

[vox_monitor]

"lie about 2nd hand smoke"

I think you need to do some research on this one. The reality is that the science shows a slight increased risk of asthma for kids exposed to heavy second hand smoke.

And that's it.

Those figures about deaths associated with second hand smoke? Total BS.

Honestly. I'm not one to defend positions. That's for those interested in rhetoric. I'm interested in dialectic - dialogue the purpose of which is to ascertain truth. But I'll defend my position on this point, at least until legitimate study indicates that second hand smoke is actually dangerous. And up to this point, it simply doesn't. The study that you have likely heard about was complete bullshit - a judge lambasted the FDA for it's "let's prove the results we want" approach to science. The numbers sited by the anti-smoking groups are from that study, which has been dismissed as worthless by myriad qualified, objective, independent scientists from across the political spectrum.

Massive European studies - double blind, peer reviewed - give us really reliable data to refer to and the results are crystal clear. Except for the slight increase in risk of asthma among children of heavy smokers who were exposed to high levels of second hand smoke, there are no health risks.

[vox_monitor]

Its a propaganda show and I hate propaganda shows.

What's the difference between a propoganda show and "editorial content."

I mean, any content that is expressly political can be dismissed as a "spin show" or a "propoganda show." Right? There is political opinion that is more "reason based" - which is to say interested in determing opinion based on factual data, and there is opinion that is less reason based.

But it seems to me that you are using the term "spin show" or "propoganda show" simply as a means of dismissing perspective that you disagree with.

Now, to be honest, I'm sure you've listened to his show more than I have. And I'm willing to conceed that it is possible that were I to listen to a few more episodes - (I've listened thus far to 2 or 3) - that I too might find more fault. But regardless, I remain unconvinced that your dismissals are driven by a whole-ly objective evaluation of the arguments that hittman makes, on their merits.

[jimk]

"Whaaaaah! It's Propaganda! YOU'RE a liar! By the way, here's my true truth facts that I got from Capitol Hill Blue, Move On and Michael Moore! For my next trick, I'll lie my *** off and then accuse you of doing it because that's the only trick I know!"

Jesus....there's no point in even having discussions with children like that.

Jack...if only you were an honest person who lived up to his own words. You might be interesting.

[Charles]

Its sad to see that some people are so filled with anger and negativity that all they can repeatedly post is mean spirited personal attacks & childish name calling in violation of posting rules even after they have been warned not to do so.

There is a huge difference between someone criticizing a podcasts content citing specifics and someone else lazily spinning personal attacks that is also trying to put words in someones mouth they never said.

[mental-escher]

OK, time-outs for everyone!

Great Philosophers suggest: "Do not try to change people, but try to change in yourself shortcomings you observe in others."

The rest of us just say: "Monkey See, Monkey Do!"



*Intervention-Bot*

[kickasspodcast]

[quote]
What's the difference between a propoganda show and "editorial content."


The difference is easy. Hitt tells you flat out that HE will help recalibrate your BS meter.. hmm sounds an awful lot like what the definition of propaganda is:

The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or
cause.
Jimk on the other hand can be heard on the starkcast editorializing.

A commentary on television or radio expressing the opinion of the station or network.
Right?.....I remain unconvinced that your dismissals are driven by a whole-ly objective evaluation of the arguments that hittman makes, on their merits.
So now we are all judging podcasts based on the validity of the arguments that podcasters are making? If you want information go to a library. If you get your info from some blogger or some podcaster... aye vey!

Except for the slight increase in risk of asthma among children of heavy smokers who were exposed to high levels of second hand smoke, there are no health risks.

This is not only counter intuitive but patently false.
Its not only unnatural but instictively bad for someone to breath in smoke. You breath in smoke and your body coughs. This instinctive reflex is proof enough that its not healthy. I am not saying it kills anyone, I am only again using nature to learn a lesson.


And Jim...


"Whaaaaah! It's Propaganda! YOU'RE a liar! By the way, here's my true truth facts that I got from Capitol Hill Blue, Move On and Michael Moore! For my next trick, I'll lie my *** off and then accuse you of doing it because that's the only trick I know!"

Jesus....there's no point in even having discussions with children like that.

Jack...if only you were an honest person who lived up to his own words. You might be interesting.

All you can do is repeat what I said? I expected more Jim.
I suppose you believe we are saints at Gitmo and abu ghraib, Rove is the greatest guy ever, and liberals want to ban meat.

We can again refer to Randi Rhodes Rule #1432:
If you are making fun of Democrats, you're probably a republican.

You came after me 1st remember, just like Hitt.

I said enough in my long *** post that wasn't at all addressed to believe this thread is over if not dead. I have the ability to criticise people I sometimes agree with. Its a shame to see that more people obviously do
not.

[dcolanduno]

Hey,

Remember that old saying about even bad press is good press?

I bet this thread, like the show or not, is getting some serious new listeners from all this bickering! :)

[Hittman]

Yeah, I know I said I was done, but considering I'm being discussed so extensively I'll step back in for a minute.

Because I gave it right back to him and called him out on his BS, he has been this hateful ever since. He wants to destroy whole cultures. He has said it like a million times. He will deny it just like he edits his post, because he is a coward.

It's such a shame you have to lie, continuously, to get attention. What I said, quite clearly, and have never backed down from or edited out, is that some cultures deserve to be destroyed. Fundamentalist Islam is one of them. The only one, currently, but there have been other cultures in the past we've had to destroy, such as Nazism. I never advocated genocide, which you accused me of. You just assumed that meant killing them, because you don't have enough imagination to think of any other way to destroy a culture. If you were a grownup, and asked how I'd do it, I would have told you that I think assimilating them and diluting their religion with the pleasures and temptations of the west would, eventually, do the trick. Killing them is not only rude, but it's counterproductive, because it gives them more martyrs.

That's the conversation I would have had with a grown up.

And you come back saying that Islam is a race. And repeating the error multiple times.

As for the validity of my opinions, I enjoy debating them with grownups, which leaves you out of the loop. When you pontificate that a dog having different colored puppies tells us all we know about race, it's obvious you're just not at the intellectual level necessary to debate advanced concepts.

I remain unconvinced that your dismissals are driven by a whole-ly objective evaluation of the arguments that hittman makes, on their merits.

I have yet to see him make any evaluation of any of my opinions, objective or otherwise. All he does is scream, put words in my mouth (which is endemic to lefties, for some reason), and compare me to other pundits that he doesn't like. (And who I don't like (or resemble) either.) In his black and white little world, anyone who isn't Frankin or Moore is automatically Hannity or Limbaugh.

I really think his show is unoriginal, I think thats the bottom line.

Of course you do. In your little world everyone who isn't as far left as you is exactly the same, and therefore boring.

Here's an example of his outright lying:

Fosco and I were listening to a recent Quickhitts about how Second hand smoke is great. You should listen to that show right now.

Yes, please do, just to see how full of **** this boy is. Nothing in it says anything remotely close to "second hand smoke is great." It simply uses the issue to illustrate how unreasonable the claims of so called experts are, and uses three claims from two of them to prove the point. Only one of the examples even comes close to addressing alleged dangers, and it addresses a new, recently made up one, not the common ones spewed regularly. The point is how dishonest and ridiculous these people are. Nothing more, nothing less. And yet this boy, this ignorant boy, listens to it and hears "Second Hand Smoke Is Great!" How can anyone deal with anyone that unperceptive, that out of touch with reality?

As for it being opinion, I say that at the end of every single show. That's the entire point of the show. Duh.

The first two shows I did were nearly verbatim readings of articles I'd written before, and the delivery sucked, so that was the last time I used a "script." Nothing is scripted, but it is rehearsed. (Anyone who knows anything about performing knows how important rehearsal is, even for things like Jazz and Improv.) I run through it a few times in order to cut out anything extraneous and boil it down to my self imposed ten minute limit. Kickass, I'm sure the lack of "uh, you know, I mean, like," and coughs and sneezes and overmodulating and stumbling over words in every other sentence makes it different enough from your show that you have no choice but to hate it. But based on the feedback I get from listeners, they prefer something more listenable than what you're capable of.

Try saying something you didn'thear on Neal Boortz, Rusty Humphrees, or Sean Hannity. Hanitized, Smartenized hmm.... now I get it!

I don't like Bortz, I've never heard of Humphrrees, and I think Hannity is full of **** more often than not. And the fact that you put Boortz and Hannity in the same lump further illustrates your immense ignorance of opinions outside your little world.

As for Smartenized – Hanatized, I was pretty annoyed when I heard that on Hannity just a couple of weeks ago. (Hate to disappoint you, KA, but I listen to him maybe once or twice a year.) I've been using "Smartenized" on my site since it first went up in 1999.

From day one of putting up the web site I wrote everything with the attitude that my readers are as smart or smarter than I am. It's served me well, and over the years I've made some good friends with smart people who contacted me through the site. I've also pissed off some really stupid people, which makes for entertaining e-mail. I take the same approach with my podcast, and as an unintended consequence dumb people just don't get it. Sorry, Kickass, this show is not for you.

As for the Second Hand smoke issue, I've had a sub site up for quite some time that deals with it. If you Google "second hand smoke" it's number six or seven out of five million hits, so quite a few people find it valuable enough to link to. The simple fact is that by the time the smoke gets to you, even if you're sitting next to the smoker, it's so dilute that it's harmless. Two studies, actual studies, not statistical fiddling, confirmed this. Non smokers who lived and/or worked in smoky environments wore portable air pumps that "breathed" and measured actual exposure. The first was done by Covaince labs in England, and it was repeated, with the same results, by Oak Ridge National Laboratories. The result? People with heavy exposure to SHS inhale the smoke of six cigarettes per year. Six. Per. Year. Smokers have to smoke 7,000 – 14,000 cigarettes a year for two or three decades before they get sick from it, and even then only a minority of them do.

The nicotine nannies spew statistics at every opportunity, knowing that most people don't understand statistics enough to understand them. Once you do (and there are two pages on The Facts that can help with that) you'll find that their own numbers, numbers they have bought and paid for, are absolute bullshit. Fortunately for them, "journalists" just repeat whatever they're told, and gullible people believe.

It's obvious to any smart person who takes the time to really look at the issue that it's a scam. It's designed to make stupid people hate and fear smokers. And look how well it's working.

[cdoelle]

I am just happy that my little ol' show announcement got 52 replies and over 1100 views!!! Now if that was just subscribers!

:)

[vox_monitor]

I am just happy that my little ol' show announcement got 52 replies and over 1100 views!!! Now if that was just subscribers!

:)

Cohry and I want you to review our podcast. We just listened to your review of Dawn and Drew. We think it would be cool, and quite possibly educational, to have the tables turned on us.

And right now at least, it appears that you are the only one out there besides us who's doing podcast reviews. I mean, I know that various casts do an occasional review, but you seem to be pretty focused on doing reviews.

So anyways, if you have a line, can we get in it?

thanks,

eric

[vox_monitor]

which is endemic to lefties.

Hittman, I think that you should avoid this kind of statement. Now, you and I agree about a lot of things. We're both liberatarian minded folk. We're both very dismissive of nanny-ism in all it's guises.

And yet I consider myself a lefty. I call myself a liberal and a progressive. And if there is one quality that "the right" tends to exhibit that really irritates me, it is this strange, categorical denial of all things "liberal."

The reason that it bothers me is that liberals are consistently the most pro-human of all political factions. Liberals "feel" a great deal of empathy for their fellow man. There are many who would argue that "the left" is naive - that their bleeding hearts make for foolish, careless decisions. But I would argue that if it weren't for the right - if it weren't for those who favor "tough" policies, and vwengence, and prisons and cops and war, the liberals wouldn't be naive. They'd be correct.

I mean, I don't know how to express what I'm getting at, really. I honestly don't. But "tough" or "common sense" solutions are just manifestations of fear. I mean, sure, it's easier, in the short term. It's easier to just feel righteous indignation and "lay down the law." But ultimately, it's just self-indulgence.

Almost every single time someone chooses "tough love," they're really choosing just to indulge their own desire for the pleasure of exercising power over another.

The problem is this - "almost." The fact is that there are occasionally circumstances when the most compassionate thing that can be done for someone is to make them experience consequence. 99% of the "consequence and control" policy (policy that generally correlates more with the right than with the left) is bad policy. It is motivated by fear or powerlust or sadism. But 1% is appropriate.

But the bottom line in my book is that I'd rather lose that appropriate one percent than keep the 1% and have to deal with the other 99%.

I mean, if people could learn to let go of righteous indignation, the world would be a vastly better place. No matter how cut and dry the rhetoric behind it, righteous indignation is almost never actually righteous. Most of the time, it is the problem.

Now let me be clear - you sound the more reasonable party to me, as far as this particular dialogue goes. I'm not writing this to take any side. I'm merely suggesting that the anti-left stuff alienates a huge part of your potential audience, pigeonholes you unnecessarily and inaccurately, and undermines your own ability to "smartenize" people.

thanks,

eric
eric

[jimk]

Interesting. You take him to task for generalizing about the left, then spend most of the post generalizing about the right.

Do you honestly not see that? Do you not see, in your own words, how you did precisely what you just asked him to not do?

[feelgoodgirl]

It's such a shame you have to lie, continuously, to get attention. What I said, quite clearly, and have never backed down from or edited out, is that some cultures deserve to be destroyed. Fundamentalist Islam is one of them. The only one, currently, but there have been other cultures in the past we've had to destroy, such as Nazism. I never advocated genocide, which you accused me of. You just assumed that meant killing them, because you don't have enough imagination to think of any other way to destroy a culture. If you were a grownup, and asked how I'd do it, I would have told you that I think assimilating them and diluting their religion with the pleasures and temptations of the west would, eventually, do the trick. Killing them is not only rude, but it's counterproductive, because it gives them more martyrs.

How about Fundamental ANYTHING is a Bad Idea. Fundamentalist Islam, Fundamentalist Christian, Fundamentalist New Age Wackos Drinking Kool-Aid to Meet the Comet...

BUT...the tendency to froth at the mouth is a part of all our heritage. Sometimes, we'll do so over religion. At other times, we'll do so over politics. And some of us, just a few, perhaps...even froth at the mouth over our podcasts. ;-)

Let us all be the voices of reason and peace that we seek in the world.

Love each other...enjoy and celebrate the podcasting diversity...we're all one, brothers and sisters in electronic podcasting land...lalalalala...

I'd like to teach the world to sing, in perfect harmonnnyyyyy....let's all have a Coke and a smile, folks. :-)

(That's A Coke, not COKE...having COKE coke would probably be ill-advised here in this topic... ;-) )

Just trying to lighten things up a bit!

[jimk]

WHAT ARE YOU SAYING LADY? MY PODCAST IS THE AWESOMEST AND HOW DARE YOU HEY IS THAT SPITTLE COMING OUT OF MY MOUTH?

I don't know where you get the idea that people around here would froth over their shows.

//Scarlett voice on

Rahlley Ah don't

//Scarlett voice off

;)

[docsnavely]

why would i want to froth at the mouth over my podcast, it truely sucks..... :roll:

[Charles]

I can't believe that someone would be so uninformed to actually believe that toxic second hand smoke is "harmless" as someone angerly posted. The toxicity and deadly harm of second hand cigarette smoke has been proven in multiple proven scientific/medical studies. For someone to deny the truth and facts of that is like them saying that black is white or that carcenogenic compounds are "harmless". They are ignoring reality.

As Conan O'Brien would say - "Peace My Babies" :wink:

[Craig]

I've been asked to shut this topic down by several people but I'm not going to. While I agree it's gone on too long without contributing much substance that's no reason to shut it down. It has, however, crossed the line several times with regard to treating each other respectfully (some of which I have edited out) so I would ask you all to make a greater effort to follow the forum rules, which you can review here:

http://www.podcastalley.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1081

Failure to follow the rules WILL result in the topic being locked, warnings being issued, and members potentially being blocked from the forum. (Three of those involved in this topic have already received warnings.)

Also, I should probably point out here that the reason Charles hasn't been blocked is that I thought he had received a prior warning and he had not. I apologize for that mistake on my part. We are trying to be as fair as possible here.

Thanks.

Craig (Moderator)

[Hittman]

Vox, you call me to task for making generalities about lefties, and then make generalities about lefties. And then, as Jim pointed out, the right.

It's a common misconception that the right doesn't care. They simply care about different things, in different ways. They don't pretend to be all touchy-feely like the left does. But the bottom line is that the left and the right are all about control. For example, the left wants to forbid you from using some words because they might offend someone. The right wants to forbid you from using some words because they might offend someone one. The only difference is the specific words they pick.

I've come to the conclusion that 80% of our problems, and perhaps 90% of them, is from people minding other people's business. Both sides exist to do precisely that. Hey, if something I do offends you, then leave me be and avoid me. If something you do offends me, I'll offer you the same courtesy. If we just leave each other the hell alone we can all do what we want and all be happy. The only time the government (or lawyers) should get involved is if there is real, demonstrable, actual harm being done to an unwilling party. Not hurt feelings, not being offended, not being exposed to a whiff of second hand smoke or some obnoxious rap being blasted by a passing car for a few seconds, but real harm.

Feelgood, you're bang on. We have two very clear and present dangers from fundamentalists. The first is obvious – the terrorism fundy Islam breeds. But there is another, far more dangerous, far more sneaky and subtle danger from Christian Fundies. The Christian Coalition, who wants to turn the US into a theocracy, issues score cards for senators, rating how closely their votes match their fundy agenda. I just downloaded it, and counted it up myself, after hearing the number on FTL. In the House, 74 or the Republicans scored 100%. An additional 60 scored 90% or better, and most of the remaining ones were 80% or higher. In the senate, out of 51 republicans, 42 scored 100%. With one exception, who only got a 56, all of the rest of them were at least 80%, and quite a few of them were 90%.

That should make any liberty loving American have to change their underwear.

It's obvious to any smart person who takes the time to really look at the issue that it's a scam. It's designed to make stupid people hate and fear smokers. And look how well it's working.

I can't believe that someone would be so uninformed to actually believe that toxic second hand smoke is "harmless" as someone angerly posted. The toxicity and deadly harm of second hand cigarette smoke has been proven in multiple proven scientific/medical studies. For someone to deny the truth and facts of that is like them saying that black is white or that carcenogenic compounds are "harmless". They are ignoring reality.

Thank you Charles, for proving my point. Perfectly.

Yes, Jim, there is only one Hittman. Most people find that's plenty.

BTW, what brand of cigar is that you're smoking? It smells like a Honduran from here.

[kickasspodcast]

My whole point about calling hittman's 2nd hand smoking position out is based on a few things.

The biggest is when he said in his show that some nicotine nanny actually claimed it needed to be 300 Mph winds to remove 2nd hand smoke from a room.
Nobody would ever say it, its just not reasonable.

2ndly is when hittman gave some long rant about the metric system and then actually suggested that the total ammount of smoke in a crowded bar is the size of 1/1000th of a grain of salt. Its just not reasonable either. I am sorry but its not.

The greater issue is the overall public health system and being aware of greater health concerns for the public good. check out this link on findings that common sense health regulations work.

About 1.6% of young children tested from 1999 to 2002 had elevated levels of lead, which could lower their intelligence and damage their brains, compared with 88.2% in the late 1970s and 4.4% in the early 1990s.
found at this news site:
http://www.latimes.com/features/health/kids/la-na-chemicals22jul22,1,3669125.story?coll=la-health-kids&ctrack=1&cset=true

I know some people hate the idea of regulation, but sometimes it works.
Not all the time, sometimes.

I have no idea why this thread got so needlessly out of control. If this is a 2nd hand smoke issue then fine, if its a new show release, an anti-rant rant, simple trolling, whatever. I just spent 6 hours working on the last
show, I don't have the energy to fight with some of you people... but hitman this podcaster reminds me alot of you.
http://terrorists-suck.org/podcasts/
you probably take that as a compliment- drats!


Jack


PS-
**********ADDED

Relax, have a smoke, and listen to kapc #21- smokin hot and brand new!
http://kickasspodcast.com/kapc21.mp3

[Hittman]

The biggest is when he said in his show that some nicotine nanny actually claimed it needed to be 300 Mph winds to remove 2nd hand smoke from a room.
Nobody would ever say it, its just not reasonable.

Wrong, as usual. The fact is someone did say it, and that someone is one of the top pushers of the second hand smoke myth.

2ndly is when hittman gave some long rant about the metric system and then actually suggested that the total ammount of smoke in a crowded bar is the size of 1/1000th of a grain of salt. Its just not reasonable either. I am sorry but its not.

Ah, you're starting to get it! (Although "rant about the metric system" is pretty dumb.) That claim was made by the same nanny who insists 300 MPH winds were necessary to clear the air. And you're right, it's "just not reasonable." That was the entire point of that show. Given some knowledge of statistics, you can track down the abstract of a study and pick it apart based on a number of criteria – is the RR less than 2.0, is the sample size reasonable, is the methodology susceptible to recall bias, does the CI come close to the null even though it doesn't straddle it, what kind of study was it (cohort studies and case-control studies can be accurate, meta-analysis are nearly always bullshit), what is the known bias of the researchers, who paid for it, is there a dose/response relationship, were all the important confounders factored in, and so on. You can learn how to do that with a bit of time and effort. You'll often find that the study is seriously flawed. When it's not, you'll often learn that the story you read makes claims, inferences and assumptions that are absent from the original report.

But all that takes time, which many of us don't have, and knowledge of statistics, which takes time to acquire. There is a far, far simpler way to approach any "experts" claim, and the results are pretty **** close to doing all the analysis. Just ask "Is this claim reasonable." Most health claims fall apart when you ask that very simple question.

[Tigerbear01]

I've been asked to shut this topic down by several people but I'm not going to. While I agree it's gone on too long without contributing much substance that's no reason to shut it down. It has, however, crossed the line several times with regard to treating each other respectfully so I would ask you all to make a greater effort to follow the forum rules, which you can review here:

http://www.podcastalley.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1081

Failure to follow the rules WILL result in the topic being locked, warnings being issued, and members potentially being blocked from the forum. (Three of those involved in this topic have already received warnings.)

Also, I should probably point out here that the reason Charles hasn't been blocked is that I thought he had received a prior warning and he had not. I apologize for that mistake on my part. We are trying to be as fair as possible here.

Thanks.

Craig (Moderator)



Props to Craig. This is a great thread. I've been laughing the whole way. Great opinions also. Just chill on the bashing a bit (except for valid points)... =)

[kickasspodcast]

Can't we all just get along?
Surely this would lighten the mood...
http://www.audiobooksforfree.com/kalashnikov/TripleKalashnikovGirlsMid.jpg
Ak47 + MP3 Player link below
http://www.audiobooksforfree.com/kalashnikov/ak-mp3.asp

[Craig]

Ak47 + MP3 Player link below
Cool MP3 player...they should have a marketing photo that's a takeoff of that famous shot where the hippie is putting flowers in the barrels of the National Guard rifles. In this version, you'd have someone replacing terrorist's ammo clips with MP3 players...you gotta love it!

Craig

[kickasspodcast]

Ak47 + MP3 Player link below
Cool MP3 player...they should have a marketing photo that's a takeoff of that famous shot where the hippie is putting flowers in the barrels of the National Guard rifles. In this version, you'd have someone replacing terrorist's ammo clips with MP3 players...you gotta love it!

Craig

Hahaha I so love it!

how funny is it, that their website is located at audiobooksforfree.com

rofl

[Charles]

Also, I should probably point out here that the reason Charles hasn't been blocked is that I thought he had received a prior warning and he had not. I apologize for that mistake on my part. We are trying to be as fair as possible here.
Thanks.
Craig (Moderator)

As a fair reply, It clearly is Not being Fair when there is a statement mentioning someone specifically as "hasn't been blocked" for only one warning for a response which quite a number of others on the forum have also received. That is the reason that quite a number of others have not been blocked, even those with multiple warnings who are at the front of the line for being "blocked". Obviously the mistake of mentioning only one person out of a crowd is never fair.


Peace