... and I thought Content was King.

[JohnBates]

This is all so sad. Apple arrive with a proprietary ipodder,
corporate censorship and their own XML namespace
and all you creative podcasters jump to accomodate them.

Great, we can have images and chapters in our podcasts.
Your audio is already full of imagery.
I don't want to have to look at my audio player.
I don't want to buy an iPod either and I certainly
don't plan to download iTunes. IPodder is free and
it works just fine thank-you very much. What's more,
the people at iPodder are adding to it all the time, it's
Open Source and I find it very reliable.

What's going to happen in a few months time when
Microsoft announce podcast support? Are you going
to maintain another XML namespace?

Don't be bullied. You have the content. Without you,
Apple (and any other late arrival) have nothing.

[thefly]

I don't know about anyone else, but I have a SINGLE RSS feed. It was painless to mark it up for the iTunes tags.

Sure, the duplication is sort of stupid. But some of the tags were neccessary. Not to mention that XML is an EXTENSIBLE markup language. This means people can adapt it and change it to their needs.

If Microsoft releases their own flavor, you bet your arse I'm going to add those tags too. Why? Because I'm not doing this so nobody else can listen. The whole point it to produce content so people can hear it.

If iTunes becomes the popular place for non-technocal people to find Podcasts, I sure as hell want to be there. What's wrong with that?

If you don't want images on your audio player, DON'T SUBSCRIBE TO PODCASTS WITH IMAGES. Wow. How simple is that? I'm not putting any in mine because 1) I don't care. I feel the same was you do about it. I just don't hate anyone else who wants it. and 2) I don't have an iPod color, so the point is entirely moot to me.

Why don't you try becoming part of a community before you make your first post whinging about the community.

The nice thing about Podcasting is I can choose where I want to be exposed and I can choose (to an extent) to whom I want to target. Guess what? I might want to release an AAC file rather than an MP3. Or an OGG! WHOLY CRAP! What is the world coming to??

Point is, if you don't want to "jump to accomodate" Apple, then you'll miss out on the popularization of Podcasting to non-techincal people. No skin off my toe.

Edit To Add: What's really "sad" is that you even care. Like what we do affects you. Do your own thing. Simple as that.

[jgreenwald]

I find the attacks on Apple rather amusing. My favorite so far is the one that refers to Apple as a late arriver. I guess what is being suggested here is that Apple named its digital music player after podcasting. Oh, and here's the best part: without the podcasters, Apple would have nothing.

So boycott the iTunes Music Store. Yeah, that's the ticket.

Reality check: Apple is the dominate player in an industry it almost single-handledly created. Podcasters now have an opportunity to benefit from all the incredible marketing Apple has done. No one, and that includes Microsoft, can deliver sets of ears the way Apple can.

Now there will be bumps in the road at the beginning. Some folks will have technical glitches to contend with. That happens with any new digital venture, particularly one that is ramping up the way this one is. In the end it will be win-win for all involved. Podcasters will build big audiences, and Apple will give people one more good reason to buy an iPod. It's all good . Enjoy.

[Hittman]

Yes but how dare they? How dare they take our hard work, and (rather indirectly) make money on it? How dare they popularize something that has been a quiet, virtually unknown subculture, even among knowledgeable musicians and geeks, and turn it into something the public is aware of, giving us all far, far more listeners than we've had before, just so they can sell stuff. It's an outrage, I tell you, an outrage!

It's the same with all those songs they sell by indie musicians. How dare they give them more exposure and money just to improve their own bottom line. Something must be done to stop them!

[thefly]

Yes but how dare they? How dare they take our hard work, and (rather indirectly) make money on it? How dare they popularize something that has been a quiet, virtually unknown subculture, even among knowledgeable musicians and geeks, and turn it into something the public is aware of, giving us all far, far more listeners than we've had before, just so they can sell stuff. It's an outrage, I tell you, an outrage!

It's the same with all those songs they sell by indie musicians. How dare they give them more exposure and money just to improve their own bottom line. Something must be done to stop them!

I'm taking your post with a boat-load of irony. I hope that's how you meant it.

But I want to ask, does anyone think they're directly profiting off our work? I doubt it. In fact, I think they're getting hit pretty hard and taking it in the rear over all this traffic. I don't think they intended this kind of response.

When they start altering my work and inserting Apple ads, I'll simply pull my feed.

[Hittman]

But I want to ask, does anyone think they're directly profiting off our work?

Directly? I don’t see how. But indirectly, and eventually, it will be good for them. Some people will buy MP3 players specifically to listen to podcasts. (Me, for instance.) And some of them will by Ipods. (Not me, for instance.) And some people will see this as evil, even as the number of people listening to their show jumps dramatically.

Some people, if you help them out, will never, ever forgive you for it.

[sydbarrett]

hey its all good.
i'm cool with that whole iTunes getting into podcasting biz.

just remember kids

how happy so many small towns and cities where when wal-mart set up shop.

because....Jobs-iTunes are now the Wal-Mart of podcasting.


so podPeople enjoy increased downloads/subscriptions
obviously there is no price to pay now or in the future.

its a great day for podcasting
and better when steve tags on ads or better yet
starts to charge a nominal fee to podcasters/users/listeners
oh wait...that will never happen.

[JohnBates]

I find the attacks on Apple rather amusing. My favorite so far is the one that refers to Apple as a late arriver. I guess what is being suggested here is that Apple named its digital music player after podcasting. Oh, and here's the best part: without the podcasters, Apple would have nothing.
Well you guessed wrong and managed to miss the point.
And yes, comparing Apple to, say, Audible.com they most certainly are a late comer.

Why don't you try becoming part of a community before you make your first post whinging about the community.
...
What's really "sad" is that you even care.

Fair criticism in the first instance. I really wasn't meaning to whinge, and I have the utmost respect for the community. So apologies if it sounded offensive - it wasn't my intention. But I do care about the direction things take. I completely understand how the opportunity to find so many new listeners is irresistable and cannot be ignored, but at the same time, I do find it sad how easy it is for a large corporation to move in and dictate how things will be done.

Podcasters now have an opportunity to benefit from all the incredible marketing Apple has done.
Now that is true. I'm assuming you mean marketing for the iPod and not for podcasting. But that was true last month, and the month before that and so on.

I'm sure once the initial frenzy has settled there will be some considerable number of new listeners who have `found' podcasting as a result of iTunes, but what will keep the listeners is the content not the delivery mechanism.

I can't work out whether the fact that Apple are caching your podcasts is a good thing or a bad thing. On the one hand it is likely to reduce your bandwidth costs but on the other hand you lose control of when your podcast becomes available and first-hand knowledge of how many people download and who they are.

One thing is for sure, iTunes will boost the development of much better podcatchers and that's going to be good for everyone, including the non-technical listeners. I'm interested to see their stance on BitTorrent.

[WyethDigital]

just remember kids

how happy so many small towns and cities where when wal-mart set up shop.

because....Jobs-iTunes are now the Wal-Mart of podcasting.


so podPeople enjoy increased downloads/subscriptions
obviously there is no price to pay now or in the future.

its a great day for podcasting
and better when steve tags on ads or better yet
starts to charge a nominal fee to podcasters/users/listeners
oh wait...that will never happen.

Somebody's always going to see a "Walmart" in every corporate venture. It's the intellectual equivelant of "Pin the Tail on the Donkey." Walmart's the pin, and the donkey is any other big company or corporate venture. It doesn't matter if you pin that Walmart to the head, the hoof, or anywhere. As long as it's stuck somewhere on that **** donkey you'll be saying "I told you so!"

The problem is, it's a disengenuous complaint. Especially in the case of Apple. Apple, over the last five years, has been a big partner in the Open Source community. And while no big company is a perfect partner in Open Source, Apple has been a better partner than many. If you were to draw a parallel to Walmart and the way it supports the communities that it operates within, it claims huge financial contributions, as if it were some big charity machine, when in fact, the "help" it gives to communities is what is required of every other company (taxes, payroll, etc.).

Apple on the whole is not the cheapest, commodity based manufacturer out there (Dell comes to mind). They innovate and offer premium harware and software for a comfortable profit margin, even while struggling to keep a paltry market share. Walmart, by comparison, is all about the cheapest commodities, and the largest chunk of mass market the rest of us can handle.

Does Apple have the largest music store on the web? Yes. Does the iPod line have the largest market share? In the US and Europe... but not Asia. Do these things automatically make Apple Walmart? As if!

Well you guessed wrong and managed to miss the point.
And yes, comparing Apple to, say, Audible.com they most certainly are a late comer.
Ummm... Audio Books from Audible are not Podcasts. Granted, Audible, over the last couple of months has been trying to get their own Podcasting thing going, but it could hardly be considered a "complete" solution. Certainly not enough to call them early to the party. And while Apple's software was just released, I can almost assure you, given their history, that Apple's mum stance on Podcasting until recently was a sure sign they were up to something. If they had no faith in the concept or future success of Podcasting, Steve Jobs would have very publicly derided the movement, as he has done with other technologies.

...I do care about the direction things take. I completely understand how the opportunity to find so many new listeners is irresistable and cannot be ignored, but at the same time, I do find it sad how easy it is for a large corporation to move in and dictate how things will be done.

I don't Podcast, so I don't see where Jobs and company are "dictating" anything. They want consistent tagging in the XML feed and ID3 tags? Oh my gosh! That's horrible! Seriously, I've wanted better tagging for a long time, and if the chance for getting in iTunes helps to standardize them, more power to them. This has nothing to do with content, and everything to do with organizing a self-sustaining directory. As for the caching, it's probably a response to the server crashes iTMS and other hosts experienced for the first 48 hours of Podcasting support in iTMS.

Just some thoughts,

Eric

[JohnBates]

Ummm... Audio Books from Audible are not Podcasts. Granted, Audible, over the last couple of months has been trying to get their own Podcasting thing going, but it could hardly be considered a "complete" solution. Certainly not enough to call them early to the party.

Audible brought out the Audible Mobile Player at the end of 1997.

[JohnBates]

When they start altering my work and inserting Apple ads, I'll simply pull my feed.
Get ready then because here's what Steve Jobs had to say to ABC News last Wednesday:

Steve Jobs: "So— podcasts I think they're gonna remain free. Although I do think we may— start to see some advertising tagged onto them— you know, in the coming months."

[gozar]

I can't work out whether the fact that Apple are caching your podcasts is a good thing or a bad thing. On the one hand it is likely to reduce your bandwidth costs but on the other hand you lose control of when your podcast becomes available and first-hand knowledge of how many people download and who they are.

I've heard these rumors of Apple actually caching the podcasts, but I haven't seen anything official. In fact, I'd be very surprised if they would spend the money to do this.

OTOH, the podcasts are probably already being cached by some of the larger ISPs, such as AOL, since they cache a lot of content to cut down on their bandwidth costs.

[jgreenwald]

Where did Steve Jobs say that Apple was going to insert ads? He said that some podcasts may contain ads. He didn't say that Apple would put them there. Big difference.

Here's something to keep in mind: Apple has a contract with Audible in which Apple agrees not to sell spoken-word content unless it comes from Audible. The contract runs out in 2007. That would seem to limit what Apple does in terms of charging for podcasts. I think it also explains why Apple and Rush Limbaugh couldn't come to terms. Rush wanted to charge, and Apple was contractually unable to allow Rush to do that.

As for advertising, who knows how that will shake out, but there is nothing to suggest that Apple will insert ads into people's shows without their permission.

[JohnBates]

I've heard these rumors of Apple actually caching the podcasts, but I haven't seen anything official. In fact, I'd be very surprised if they would spend the money to do this.
There's an article on it at the dailysonic (http://dailysonic.com/blog/itunes-49-issues/) website which talks about it and how it's affecting them. In fact, its directly affecting their business model.

[WyethDigital]

There's an article on it at the dailysonic (http://dailysonic.com/blog/itunes-49-issues/) website which talks about it and how it's affecting them. In fact, its directly affecting their business model.

Yes, and the article says this at the end:
We (finally) made contact with Apple, and hopefully early next week we can resolve this.

UPDATE (7/3) ; its appears that these issues have been resolved, I wanna do some more poking around to be sure… but everything look a.ok. right now. - Adam

I doubt that Apple has any nefarious plans in the works if/when they cache a Podcast, other than keeping the Podcast directory working more smoothly. As someone else pointed out, it would be outrageously expensive to cache the Podcasts and serve them directly off their own servers.

Audible brought out the Audible Mobile Player at the end of 1997.
And how does that make Apple late to the party? If Audible has been trying to syndicate their programs (which is really what makes Podcasting "Podcasting"), then it's only been trying to for a very short time. And there's nothing on the front page of their website about it.

And frankly, there have been a few companies that were out of the gate well before Apple with MP3/Audio players. The fact that Audible was one of them is irrelevant.

Eric

[jgreenwald]

As to the the evil intentions of Apple seeming to cache podcasts, I suggest folks listen to AC's latest podcast. He makes it clear that Apple promised to do precisely that so that everyone's servers wouldn't get hosed. Initially it didn't work right, and the podquake took many people down.

It's interesting to hear AC talk about the cache process as a great benefit, while folks on this forum are spreading paranoia.

[shadowfax]

As to the the evil intentions of Apple seeming to cache podcasts, I suggest folks listen to AC's latest podcast. He makes it clear that Apple promised to do precisely that so that everyone's servers wouldn't get hosed. Initially it didn't work right, and the podquake took many people down.

It's interesting to hear AC talk about the cache process as a great benefit, while folks on this forum are spreading paranoia.

Caching of content is horrible. While I can't dispute it helps cut down on overhead, it provides the ability for content to be altered, stops me from having correct stats, etc...

At what point do they start adding advertisments or adjusting the content as they feel necessary... Actually what is worse is my listeners aren't my listeners because they now get the RSS info from Apple, get the file from Apple, etc... All it takes is for apple to cut me from the picture and that whole group of people I have been talking to are now no longer accessible by me.

This is not a good start. Does google do this? No.. ultimately my website visitors are MINE, not some middle man that at any point can stop the flow.

[jeffoest]

It's interesting - I haven't seen any typd of 'terms of service' or implicit agreements made between Apple and individual podcasters. If someone has seen anything like this - do let us know!

The way I look at it is Apple neither 'nice' or 'evil'. They are a large corporation that needs to deliver a healthy return to their investors.

I suspect that Apple does not have a use agreement with most of us because they correctly estimated that most podcasters would leap at the chance to get into a distribution channel that their investments have created .

That distribution channel is free to all of us. We don't pay money for it but we probably do surrender some control. Expect Apple to do what they need to do to build a healthy business. That could include, I suppose, the insertion of ads into our content in the future. Or repurposing our content in some ways is probably on the table as well.

It's a trade-off that each individual podcasters will need to make over time. You can elect not to be part of the Apples' directory if you find the costs overweighing the benefits.

[WyethDigital]

Thought this might be somewhat applicable. It's from the iTMS TOS and reads as follows:
e. The Service may offer interactive features that allow you to, among other things, submit or post information, materials or links to third party content on areas of the Service accessible and viewable by other users of the Service and the public. You represent and agree that any use by you of such features, including any information, materials or links submitted or posted by you, shall be your sole responsibility, shall not infringe or violate the rights of any other party or violate any laws, contribute to or encourage infringing or otherwise unlawful conduct, or otherwise be obscene, objectionable or in poor taste, and that you have obtained all necessary rights, licenses or clearances. You further agree to provide accurate and complete information in connection with your submission or posting of any information or materials on the Service. Moreover, you hereby grant Apple a worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive license to use such materials as part of the Service, and in relation to Products, without any compensation or obligation to you.

Apple reserves the right not to post or publish any materials, and to delete, remove or edit any material, at any time in its sole discretion without notice or liability.

Apple has the right, but not the obligation, to monitor any information and materials submitted or posted by you or otherwise available on the Service, to investigate any reported or apparent violation of this Agreement, and to take any action that Apple in its sole discretion deems appropriate, including, without limitation, under Section 14 below or under our Copyright Policy (http://www.apple.com/legal/trademark/claimsofcopyright.html).

I think this more generically refers to Discussion Forum posts and user published playlists, but in a broad sense, it could be applicable to Podcasting.

Eric

[vox_monitor]

I am absoutely a free market kind of guy. And I think, in principal, that it is very cool that apple incorporated podcasts into itunes.

Having said that, however, I think it is extremely lame, and that it is in the long term very bad business, that apple just took a bunch of mainstream media and artificially stuck them at the top of the heap in Itunes.

And I really dislike the poor browsing interface and the way the Itunes makes no effort to take advantage of - which is to say it seems to have no respect for the appeal and profit potential of - independent media makers like us.

That is just plain bullshit. But you know, ultimately, it's just the death thrashing of an outmoded system. I tunes will come to understand this. The future is already wholly determined, we just have to wait for it. Merit will rule the roost. And banal crap will die. It may be a long, slow death, - it may take another 10-20 years even - but it is inevitable.