Licensing Question

[Bitz of Brin]

I posted this in another thread, but then I saw it was an old thread and maybe I wasn't even on topic, so sorry for the dupe.

Hi! I'm Brin and I am training to be an entertainer. I usually sing one song from one of my favorite artists, sometimes more on each podcast. I'm writing my own music, but it's not ready yet. I've been podcasting since March now. I usually sing pop and country so my podcast is very different from a lot of you alternative and indy guys.

I hate to ask something that's been asked before, and I've looked over the other threads, but I want to do things right and I'm confused. My dad and I have been looking into this and we know that we need a license but don't know which one. Here are my questions:

a) I buy the minus tracks (karaoke CDs). Don't I have a right to perform the song now? I paid for it. If I don't have the right, then how can they sell the CDs and not tell you that you can't perform the songs? Anyway, this is confusing to me.

b) If I have to buy a license then which license? ASCAP? BMI? SESAC? I can't afford all three! I'm not making any money at this (but if you've got a record deal to offer we should talk LOL).

c) Why can I perform these songs at a gig but not on a podcast? Do all bands have to pay these fees to play like covers at weddings?

d) If I keep going as I have been doing and don't worry about the fees, what might happen?

[roadrageradio]

Technically, yes, if you perform a copyrighted song in public and get paid, you or the venue should have a performance license, available from ONE of BMI, ASCAP, or SESAC, depending on who the composer signed with for that song.

I suspect that most casual performers ignore this, but if they catch you, they can make your life pretty miserable.

If you record your performance and distribute copies, that requires a mechanical license from the Harry Fox Agency. The license fee is based on the number of copies that are made. Putting your performance of the song on the internet falls into this category.

If you're "in the business" you can buy tracks which carry unlimited licenses to perform and/or use in another recorded work. These usually cost more than the equivalent consumer music CD. Your karaoke CD's may fall in this category, but you'd have to check with the publisher.

[Bitz of Brin]

Technically, yes, if you perform a copyrighted song in public and get paid, you or the venue should have a performance license, available from ONE of BMI, ASCAP, or SESAC, depending on who the composer signed with for that song.

I suspect that most casual performers ignore this, but if they catch you, they can make your life pretty miserable.

If you record your performance and distribute copies, that requires a mechanical license from the Harry Fox Agency. The license fee is based on the number of copies that are made. Putting your performance of the song on the internet falls into this category.

If you're "in the business" you can buy tracks which carry unlimited licenses to perform and/or use in another recorded work. These usually cost more than the equivalent consumer music CD. Your karaoke CD's may fall in this category, but you'd have to check with the publisher.

Now I'm really confused! That's different than the other threads I've been reading.

[Hittman]

a) I buy the minus tracks (karaoke CDs). Don't I have a right to perform the song now? I paid for it. If I don't have the right, then how can they sell the CDs and not tell you that you can't perform the songs? Anyway, this is confusing to me.

That gives you the right for non-commercial use – you can perform to it for your friends, family, at parties, etc. If you were to do it in a bar, there's licensing involved. Most likely the bar is already playing blackma…er…licensing fees to ASCAP and BMI, so you're covered there. But if you make your own recording, using their music, and send it out into the world, you in violation of copyright. Several of them, in fact.

b) If I have to buy a license then which license? ASCAP? BMI? SESAC? I can't afford all three! I'm not making any money at this (but if you've got a record deal to offer we should talk LOL).

Probably all three. Check out the Coverville interview on Podcast 411. The Coverville guy bought licenses from all three, and talks extensively about how to do it in that interview.

c) Why can I perform these songs at a gig but not on a podcast? Do all bands have to pay these fees to play like covers at weddings?

Bars and restaurants are already paying protection money to ASCAP and BMI, so you're covered there. Technically, bands should pay when they play at weddings, but I've never heard of one paying, or being hassled over it.

d) If I keep going as I have been doing and don't worry about the fees, what might happen?

Anything from "Absolutely Nothing" to "Big Fat Honkin' Lawsuit by a Very Wealthy Company." The risk of the latter is probably small, but still real.

Now I'm really confused! That's different than the other threads I've been reading.

It's all very complicated and confusing. RoadRage's advice is correct, but there's even more to it, and podcasting is still a gray area – for instance, the evil RIAA hasn't decided if, when, and how they're going to sink their claws into podcasters.

(Warning: There is a clown floating around this forum who gives 100% incorrect advice, dangerously incorrect advice on copyright, while bragging about his expertise on the subject. If he chimes in, ignore him. His handle is Kickass.)

If you're going to do it 100% legally, it will be complicated and expensive, and after all that all you've got is someone singing karaoke.

Why not avoid any potential problems entirely by doing your own stuff? It will be yours, and you can do whatever you like with it. It will also be more likely to get a following. The idea of someone singing to karaoke CDs frankly doesn't sound very interesting, at least to me, no matter how wonderful your voice may be. OTOH, if you said you were recording something original, I'd be sure to check it out, and so would a lot of other people. Podcasting is all about originality. The more original you can be, the more likely it is you'll be successful.

[kickasspodcast]

(Warning: There is a clown floating around this forum who gives 100% incorrect advice, dangerously incorrect advice on copyright, while bragging about his expertise on the subject. If he chimes in, ignore him. His handle is Kickass.)


...thats just wrong dude...just plain wrong...



That gives you the right for non-commercial use –

Really? That's exactly what I said before!

Anything from "Absolutely Nothing" to "Big Fat Honkin' Lawsuit by a Very Wealthy Company.

So which one is it? Do you even know what yout talking about?

RoadRage's advice is correct, but there's even more to it, and podcasting is still a gray area
Doesn't seem like you do with this zinger either.

Its all very complicated and confusing..

We can tell you are totally confused.

Hey Dave Hitt-
Just stick to what you know dude:


There are cultures that not only deserved to be dismissed, but also destroyed.

Eep!


-Hey Brin-

There are some people on these forums who have really lame shows. I mean put you to sleep lame. All these people can ever hope to do is seem like they are smart and 'with-it' in the forums. Its pretty sad but its just a fact of life. You see how shameless people are to launch irrelevant attacks on people who aren't even involved in the conversation.

Go check out the coverville/411 interview for a good start.

Jack

[Hittman]

Spunky, I knew you were going to come along and spew bad advice like you have in the past, and she deserves a warning. There has been lots and lots of info on copyright law floating around in these forums. Most of it has been bang on correct. Yours has not only been wrong, but dangerously wrong. Anyone foolish enough to take your advice could find themselves in serious legal trouble.

BTW, have you figured out that Ipods will play mp3s?

Hey, ever figure out what the word "over modulation" means, and how to avoid it in every single sentence of your show? Get back to us when you do, OK boy? Maybe then you'll be qualified to comment on other people's work.

BTW, have you figured out that Islam isn't a race?

I got to say, it's quite amusing where the criticism comes from. I've received lots of complements, along with some helpful advice, from people I respect in these forums. The only people dissing my show are you, a functional illiterate, (as shown by your "which one is it" question) and Charles the Special Olympian. And as I said before (sorry for the repetition, folks, but that's the only way to get through to his ilk) if either of you liked my show, I'd know there was something seriously wrong with it.

BTW, have you figured out that JC Fogerty won the lawsuit?

I see that in the thread on your show, where I proved your smear of me being an uber conservative was about as far off as it could be, you had no reply. You actually shut your mouth! Try to keep that up, OK?

[thefly]

</drama>

[Hittman]

Brin, one thing you said intrigues me.

I'm writing my own music, but it's not ready yet.

When will it be ready? Next week? Next month? Next year?

I'm listening to your podcast as I type this. You've got an impressive voice for a 13 year old. You sing other people's stuff well, but I'll bet you sing your own stuff even better. So get out there!

A great place to start is open mikes. I'm sure there's several near you. Take your own, original music out for a spin. Learn what it feels like to hear a room full of applause for something you created. Learn what it feels like to fall flat on your face with nobody paying attention. (It hurts like hell the first few times, but then you learn that it causes no permanent damage, and learn to shrug it off.) Take what works and hone it and polish it and perfect it. Toss whatever doesn't work. (Give it at least two tries, though, there is such a thing as a bad audience.)

Don't wait for your songs or your performance to be perfect. They never will be without audience feedback. Tips you get from people listening to your podcast might be useful, but nothing trains you as fast as being in front of a live audience, seeing the look on their faces, and feeling the flow of emotions between you and them, sometimes so thick you can almost see it. And once in a great while everything will click and you'll hit a few moments of perfection that have to be experienced, because they can not be described.

I hung out at open mikes for several years. Audiences were never impressed with people who did pop songs to a karaoke background. If you go that route they're likely to be polite, but not pay a lot of attention. You'll probably even get some polite applause. But get up there with something original, and they'll pay attention. Being a kid is an added bonus – it's something they don't see all that often.

I'll let you in on a little secret that some performers never seem to learn: The audience wants to like you. They really do. They came out to be entertained, and if you give them something entertaining, (and original is always more entertaining), most of the time they'll love you. And while technical expertise may impress them briefly, what they’re really looking for is personality and songs sung passionately. Just from one listen to your cast it's evident you can give them both.

Here's another little secret: Lots of people are very impressed with a cappella. They shouldn't be, because if you can carry a tune it's usually easier than singing with accompaniment, but they tend to sit up and pay attention when the only instrument up there is a human voice. So if you don't have any musical backup for your songs, don't worry about that just yet.

So find a place, (coffee houses are a great place to start), visit it once to get a feel for the venue, and set yourself a date in the very near future (two weeks, max) to get up there and see what you can do. Practice what you're going to say as well was what you're going to sing. And I'm betting that you'll amaze yourself.

Oh, and almost as a side effect, you'll eliminate the entire copyright issue, because you'll be doing your own stuff.

[Bitz of Brin]

Brin, one thing you said intrigues me.

I'm writing my own music, but it's not ready yet.

When will it be ready? Next week? Next month? Next year?

I'm listening to your podcast as I type this. You've got an impressive voice for a 13 year old. You sing other people's stuff well, but I'll bet you sing your own stuff even better. So get out there!


Well, I've only got 3 songs. It's not enough for a set yet. And the town I live in is way hostile to busking/street performing. My dad says Boston was full of people singing and playing, but not here. I want to sing only my stuff so I'm working on it!


A great place to start is open mikes. I'm sure there's several near you. Take your own, original music out for a spin. Learn what it feels like to hear a room full of applause for something you created. Learn what it feels like to fall flat on your face with nobody paying attention. (It hurts like hell the first few times, but then you learn that it causes no permanent damage, and learn to shrug it off.) Take what works and hone it and polish it and perfect it. Toss whatever doesn't work. (Give it at least two tries, though, there is such a thing as a bad audience.)

Don't wait for your songs or your performance to be perfect. They never will be without audience feedback. Tips you get from people listening to your podcast might be useful, but nothing trains you as fast as being in front of a live audience, seeing the look on their faces, and feeling the flow of emotions between you and them, sometimes so thick you can almost see it. And once in a great while everything will click and you'll hit a few moments of perfection that have to be experienced, because they can not be described.

I hung out at open mikes for several years. Audiences were never impressed with people who did pop songs to a karaoke background. If you go that route they're likely to be polite, but not pay a lot of attention. You'll probably even get some polite applause. But get up there with something original, and they'll pay attention. Being a kid is an added bonus – it's something they don't see all that often.


Yeah, my Dad tells me that stuff too. He wants me to learn to play the guitar and piano so I can sing and perform my own stuff. He tells me people aren't impressed with karaoke, but he helps me with my podcast anyway because it's good practice.


I'll let you in on a little secret that some performers never seem to learn: The audience wants to like you. They really do. They came out to be entertained, and if you give them something entertaining, (and original is always more entertaining), most of the time they'll love you. And while technical expertise may impress them briefly, what they’re really looking for is personality and songs sung passionately. Just from one listen to your cast it's evident you can give them both.

Here's another little secret: Lots of people are very impressed with a cappella. They shouldn't be, because if you can carry a tune it's usually easier than singing with accompaniment, but they tend to sit up and pay attention when the only instrument up there is a human voice. So if you don't have any musical backup for your songs, don't worry about that just yet.

So find a place, (coffee houses are a great place to start), visit it once to get a feel for the venue, and set yourself a date in the very near future (two weeks, max) to get up there and see what you can do. Practice what you're going to say as well was what you're going to sing. And I'm betting that you'll amaze yourself.

Oh, and almost as a side effect, you'll eliminate the entire copyright issue, because you'll be doing your own stuff.

Well, I'm working on that. I hope to be at an open mic next month. Maybe this month, too. But I don't have enough of my own material yet to leave covers behind me yet.