Pro's & Con's: Blogging Software for your Website? [Archive]

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kickasspodcast

Jun 19th, 2005, 06:33 PM

bramley

Jun 19th, 2005, 06:56 PM

I use Dreamweaver. For me it was
1. the LACK of control that blogging software gave you that made me pick an alternative
2. plus, I was looking for something less uniform visually
3. and I include a lot of "stuff" that you can't really do with blogging software (maybe I don't fully understand all the options of Wordpress, though)

I think it all depends on what you feel you need to include and how you want it to look.

dcolanduno

Jun 19th, 2005, 07:36 PM

I use Dreamweaver. For me it was
1. the LACK of control that blogging software gave you that made me pick an alternative
2. plus, I was looking for something less uniform visually
3. and I include a lot of "stuff" that you can't really do with blogging software (maybe I don't fully understand all the options of Wordpress, though)

Ditto,

We are about to release our new website. Which is more useful for the way I work.

D.

allthewhile

Jun 19th, 2005, 07:43 PM

I'm more inclined to use something like dreamweaver for layout design and use something like wordpress to update it. I need to look at the latest version of dreamweaver though. It's been years since I've messed around with dreamweaver. and yes, that was back when i used pirated software. :(

spartacusroosevelt

Jun 19th, 2005, 11:05 PM

Caveat: I am by no means a web guru and when it gets down to it the underlying code for my sites is sloppy and rarely validates totally.

That being said, I love working with Wordpress and Dreamweaver. Dreamweaver 2004 makes it very easy to manipulate style sheets and deal with the php and Wordpress itself is very customizable. The Pages feature of the new WP makes it really easy to create static pages outside the typical blog chronology.

I created a school website using Wordpress as a CMS and it works beautifully, without looking like a blog at all. There is a nice set of themes and plugins for Wordpress that has hacked it to a complete CMS (http://www.semiologic.com/projects/sem-theme/) that puts my simple hack job to shame.

I also use Ecto (http://ecto.kung-foo.tv/) for Mac to manage each entry, that allows a lot of ease of use with not only Wordpress, but MT, Blogger and several other pieces of software.

As far as concerns about comments, it is a single checkbox in WP to turn off commenting or anonymous commenting.

allthewhile

Jun 19th, 2005, 11:26 PM

I'd be interested in seeing the school website dude. I run a school website using wordpress, although I need to update the thing badly.

tdkyo

Jun 20th, 2005, 01:02 AM

I use Mambo Open Source to take care of my half podcast/ half blog website.
http://mamboserver.com/

justSue

Jun 20th, 2005, 02:49 AM

I don't use a blog platform. The main reason being visual flexibility, and the fact that doing the updates to the XML manually doesn't take much more time than typing show notes into a blog.

We wanted the podcast to NOT be a blog. Therefore, it doesn't look like one, IMO.

I use MX2004 (Flash, Fireworks, Dreamweaver)

Mike makes the pretty sounds.

Barefoot Radio.com

Jun 20th, 2005, 09:04 AM

I for one am loving getting use to using Wordpress.

Some of the cons you list I wanted to counter.

It's that the WP program is very customizable. You can set it up so that you're the administrator and you approve every comment. If you're not getting TONS of listeners you might not get alot of comments. But if you get something you don't like you can just delete it. You can set up your program so that no one can post without your approval as well. You could also block nuisance IP addresses.

Also, you say that WP "looks like a blog," but when you understand the basic template and learn to get around, you'll find that the overall design is very customizable.

Overall, I like the program. I tried Radio Userland and it was comparatively a hassle and a joke.

Switching hosts is not so hard if you need to find a server with PHP/MYSQL.

Hope this helps! :) I like Wordpress!

Frank J.

Jun 20th, 2005, 09:37 AM

I love the instant feedback a blog gives you (I only want certain types of e-mail for the podcast and encourage it with a free t-shirt to the best one).

Of course, I've been a blogger nearing 3 years and only a podcaster for nearly a month.

SFEley

Jun 20th, 2005, 12:46 PM

Some Pro's I can think of:
-Looks nice and uniform
-Supposed to be easy to regularly publish show notes

Just to address the "nice and uniform" thing quickly: if you mean that your posts will look uniform with each other, then yes, that's probably true. If you mean that all Wordpress blogs will look like other Wordpress blogs, that's very not true. Sure, there are thousands of blogs out there that use one of the default themes and never modify it, and they do look alike. But if you're willing to put some work into your site, and learn a bit of CSS and (maybe) some PHP, you could make it look like almost anything you want.

-Give site owner more control of some aspects
Again, it depends on your frame of reference. It won't give you more control than putting a site together from scratch with Dreamweaver, of course. And nothing will give you more control than tooling the HTML by hand. What Wordpress will do is make a lot of repetitive tasks easier, while still providing you with a reasonable level of control.

Some Con's I can think of
-Your server must support pHp and MySQL and alot of servers do not
Are you sure about that? In mid-2005, I would think that any general Web hosting service that doesn't offer PHP and MySQL is doomed to die any minute now. They're about as close as you can get to standard requirements. I certainly don't know of any highly-rated hosts that don't offer them.

-Allowing any anonymous person to comment may subtly discourage people sending you audio feedback or direct email feedback
I suppose that's possible. It doesn't bother me, however; I'll take feedback any way I can get it. In my podcast I encourage people to go to the Web site and leave comments. My logic is that those comments are public, so if people see that a lot of others are commenting, they might get an urge to do it themselves. And as others have said, it's trivial to turn comments off if you don't want them, or to force all comments to be moderated.

-Looks like a blog, maybe you don't want your Podsite to look like a blog, maybe you just want to put out audio content

This one is true. Even with CMS plugins or specialized themes, you'd have to do a lot of work to make Wordpress look essentially non-bloglike. I see that as a strength for podcasting, as it makes it easy to look up recent podcasts. But if your vision for your own site is something that really isn't blog-based at all, then I would agree, Wordpress is probably not the right solution.

jeffoest

Jun 20th, 2005, 01:07 PM

I've used both and have had been happy with both approaches (WYSIWYG/HTML as well as Blog Software).

For the blog/podcast paradim, I like using the blog software because it makes it so darn easy. Mess with the templates if you want to look unique. And add other content to your website (if you want) using tradition WYSIWYG and HTML generated pages (which is what we do for our page).

As a reader / listener, I always appreciate it when someone uses the blog paradigm as it feels like 'home' and I know where to look for things.

kickasspodcast

Jun 20th, 2005, 02:04 PM

Are you sure about that? In mid-2005, I would think that any general Web hosting service that doesn't offer PHP and MySQL is doomed to die any minute now. They're about as close as you can get to standard requirements. I certainly don't know of any highly-rated hosts that don't offer them.

Well you may know that lots of great hosts have Windows and Linux servers. I guess they have different advantages and disadvantages- I guess they are morons for offering both?
Well maybe if you swear by linux then some of this is true, but don't assert that there are 10's of thousands of servers who don't support pHp and MySQL- I trust in those people's judgement and won't slam them for it as you did. Lots of people do just fine without pHp and MySQL- I highly doubt you are in the majority in your opinion regarding all the Windows servers who do not supoprt pHp or MySQL- I do not know if some Windows servers support these formats, its not my area of expertise.

But other than that, I don't really know how to respond to such condescension. I guess you are maybe mad because I said some peoples shows were weak(which nobody refuted)- well if you can't call someones show weak- then where is the forum where you can do that. I am not trying to bash anyone but when people post smug responses like this its like- what the hell?
I personally don't like Podsites that look like blogs. I think 999 out of 1000 bloggers are absolute narcisists. But that is also my opinion. It seems like a less creative way to set up your web page- but I know there are benefits as I have said before.

And nothing will give you more control than tooling the HTML by hand.

I guess, if you are an HTML god, but I have a feeling people don't text edit html in their notepad all the time for a reason. The tediousness of this seems like the motivation for the creation of the tools that people use today; Blogware, Dreamweaver, etc.. but maybe I'm a moron.

But FYI- your site looks like 1000 other website I have seen 1000 times- if you want that- then cool- I prefer a bit of orignality in how I publish my site.

Jack

kickasspodcast

Jun 20th, 2005, 02:14 PM

I have to say I really like the This and That website, The Extra Super Action Show, and IMAO (prolly the 1 in 1000 bloggers i'd like) podsites.

The batpig site is great too- I would rather have my site be more towards this kinda orinality than the run-of-the-mill blogsite with the same format everyone else has.

Oh well, I don't think I will switch to linux- i'd have to pay 40 bucks and change the way I do most everything ( I have been told by someone who is mostly right).

but seriously- is there any like ultimate reason to use blogging software?

Jack

sheridan

Jun 20th, 2005, 02:47 PM

Well you may know that lots of great hosts have Windows and Linux servers. I guess they have different advantages and disadvantages- I guess they are morons for offering both?
Well maybe if you swear by linux then some of this is true, but don't assert that there are 10's of thousands of servers who don't support pHp and MySQL- I trust in those people's judgement and won't slam them for it as you did. Lots of people do just fine without pHp and MySQL- I highly doubt you are in the majority in your opinion regarding all the Windows servers who do not supoprt pHp or MySQL- I do not know if some Windows servers support these formats, its not my area of expertise.

Well, this IS my area of expertise and I will tell you that Windows and Linux machines both support PHP. I do, among other things, PHP and PERL programming for a living and I have several clients who are running IIS on Windows servers. Guess what? My PHP scripts work almost as well there as they do on a Linux machine (and I only say almost because they run slightly slower on IIS than on a machine with PHP as an Apache Module, functionally there is no difference).

So, I would ask you to do some research before making these blanket statements. Look around and try to find just 5 webhosts that don't support PHP. I think if you do you'll be surprised at how hard it is to find anyone on any platform in the webhosting business that doesn't support PHP.

SFEley

Jun 20th, 2005, 02:51 PM

But other than that, I don't really know how to respond to such condescension. I guess you are maybe mad because I said some peoples shows were weak(which nobody refuted)- well if you can't call someones show weak- then where is the forum where you can do that. I am not trying to bash anyone but when people post smug responses like this its like- what the hell?

Jack, I don't know what your problem is. All that stuff you're talking about is in another thread. I chose to ignore your attitude in that thread, and when you posted another reasonable question here I did my best to give you a reasonable answer. I'm not "mad" about anything at all. Some points of yours I agree with. Others I disagree with, and I've given my reasons. Are you going to call me "condescending" every time I offer a point of fact or opinion from now on? Do you even know the meaning of the word?

I'm not going to discuss the quality of anybody's podcasts because that's not the topic of this thread. It's also subjective. Whether someone's podcast is good or bad has little to do with whether complaints about the iPod are valid, or whether Wordpress is a good platform for podcasting, or whether there are leading general-purpose Web hosting services that don't offer PHP.

I didn't argue the point with you then because I said you'd crossed the line, and that the discussion ends when you stoop to insulting podcasts instead of addressing the subject. That's why I stopped responding to you. Once somebody makes an ad hominem attack, there's nowhere to go but down.

Now you bring it up in this thread, wherein nobody referenced the other one at all, and for what? Just to show that you can't let go of a grudge?

I listened to your show Friday night. I believe it was your cohost who said that nobody ought to be taking these Podcast Alley threads too seriously. You muttered a couple of words of assent. (Unless I'm mixing the two of you up.)

In any case, whichever one of you said it, listen to that guy, and follow his advice. He knows what he's talking about.

sheridan

Jun 20th, 2005, 04:25 PM

Hello Podcasting Universe,

I am not very familiar with the common php/MySQL Blogging Software (Wordpress etc..) that alot of Podcasters use to manage and publish their show notes and website. I am pandering for opinions and more on what people think are the Pro's and Con's of using this kind of software as opposed to creating your Site with other general editors (Frontpage/Dreamweaver).

My website for Name This Podcast is actually using PostNuke. This is actually the first time I have ever used a CMS, but I figured since the podcast was an experiment why shouldn't the website for it be one too?

Also, I wanted to try and use a CMS so that Sarah (who is not a programmer) could update the site too.

PostNuke is a PHP/MySQL product, but there is also DotNetNuke which is .NET and MSSQL if you prefer MS technology.

The biggest pro to using a CMS is the amount of time it saves you. It took me about an hour and a half to setup the Name This Podcast website, which includes a utility to add a new podcast (Admin only), a user Authentication utility, a site statistic utility, a poll, Both Anonymous and User Account comments, and a lot more thing that I just am not using.

Now, I could (and have) make a site that provides all of this using just notepad and PHP/MySQL. But I certainly couldn't do it in an hour and a half.

I have not played with the themes yet, but I'll let you know when I do (if you are interested). My understanding, though, is that with a custom theme you can give it any look and feel you want.

The only real con I have seen is a learning curve. There was not a module I could find for podcasting, so I kludged my "show podcast" page from the news module. I could write a module for podcasting (and might eventually) but I would have to take the time to learn how their module system works. The reason the appearance is still fairly standard is because I haven't learned how to make a theme yet, so again the learning curve. But, considering the small amount of time I have had to put into the website I think CMS's shouldn't be dismissed.

kickasspodcast

Jun 20th, 2005, 05:58 PM

Look Escape pod-

I am not taking this personally. I honestly thought that what you wrote came across as a bit smug, I am sorry if i misinterpretted your sentiments but its obvously a sore spot with you since you posted a reply with the sort of "If-But-Maybe-Probably-Sometimes-Depends" reasoning and that is usually a sign of either precocity (which I have no way of knowing) or *codescension.

*Patronizingly superior behavior or attitude

IT felt like you blew off alot of what I said and I don't know anyone who like to feel this way. The only reason it got brought up was the abrupt manner in which you posted- I felt I had to call you on what I read as somewhat clear superiority. And its totally within the realm of reason to do so. I have seen maybe 100 different people (usually the same 15-30 people) posting regularly here in beautiful PCA. So at some point- conversations cross threads and continue- its not as if this is an insanely busy message board.

IT just seems a bit condescending- I am sorry if I am reading into it- but since you continue to believe my opinions about other shows are merely "stooping" we don't have to continue anymore on that subject ok? Fair's Fair. There ought to be an entirely opinionated forum where people can give feedback on the overall quality of the shows as well as bicker about technical specifications- there probably is and I am just ignorant of its location.
I recognize your technical proficiency, but its your articulation that rubbed me wrong-and maybe it was just me- but I wish you would have at least responded on thread topic here-There are still alot of issues at hand.

Podcasting is something nobody is doing right, and nobody is doing wrong.
Its almost entirely subjective from start to finish. To see people ever act as if they have the lock on truth or the right or best way to do any of this is disapointing. I am not saying YOU are doing that- because I have not- But there are a surplus of Tech-Geeks and Former Radio personel that naturally come across smug- simply by the nature of who they are- I am actually a fully trained Chef- Went to College- Cooked for 15 years in restaurants- when I start to talk about how to make some seriously complex pastries or tell you abot history of Lobster Bisque or Vicycois I am going to sound like a know it all- and I have to work hard when I am talking to Non-Foodies to sound a bit more on the level. I hope this illustration helps- You run a Sci-Fi podcast that I can't say anything bad about at all. I on the other hand- play different kinds of music, try and make people relax or laugh and generally bullshit and speculate with my main man fosco- (HE Is the one who is usually peaking his mic). Its obvious and I will (in front of the whole world) give you all the technical respect you deserve- but it doesn't mean that you can't sometimes sound smug or whatever- no I won't call you smug or condescending every time you post- BUT- I will call anyone out on anything- pretty much any time- and expect others do return the favor to me- WHICH they definitely have- Thanks~

Never any hard feelings- just hard words. ;)

& Sheridan you are clearly beyond me in your understanding- i'll try and catch up ;)

jack

sheridan

Jun 20th, 2005, 06:44 PM

Sheridan you are clearly beyond me in your understanding- i'll try and catch up ;)

I have been programming in PHP since the late 90's so you just happened to hit upon one of the few things that I had to interject on. :-)

radioclash

Jun 20th, 2005, 08:16 PM

Actually IMO experience (as a web design/dev geek as my profession) PHP is very very common;y offered with web-hosting now - and because it's free usually the low end/home hosting packages always have it -with MySQl - again it's free...unlike Microsoft's ASP. Interestingly I've done quite a bit of commercial work with PHP sites, something that was unthinkable 5 years ago when everyone was MS/ASP...

Usually it's the high-end business hosts or semi-pro hosts that offer ASP, but usually they have a Linux/PHP option because quite a lot of governments and business and some corporates are using it now.

I must say, I didn't read any nastiness in Escape Pods post about this BTW - maybe I missed a subtext? I dunno. Didn't seem nasty to me? I suppose it's problem with text-only communication, you can read what you want into it sometimes (I'm guilty of that too sometimes, and also guilty of being misunderstood/misread too).

Now Wordpress:

I designed my blog in Wordpress and Dreamweaver to not look too blog-like - http://www.mutantpop.net/radioclash/ - I did this in a day and could have gone further into making it say 1 post, and changing the layout totally so it looks like HTML website...but I like the features of blogs. But with CSS and PHP you can make it look like you want - I started with a classic Photoshop flat and made it look *exactly* like I wanted. I too thought blogs had to look a certain way, and was really surprised with WP themes how easy it was - much easier than say PHPBB message board themes which are a nightmare to change in comparison.

Big tip tho: edit an existing style that works similarly to how you want to; or is basic enough to hack if not. Saves a LOT of time (I hacked the standard Kubrick theme so you can see I made it totally different!)

Have a look on Wordpress's site in the Support forum http://wordpress.org - there's a 'My Wordpress' category which has some really amazing Wordpress sites that you'd not think were blogs in a million years.

It's really as far as you want to go.

I will say one 'Con' tho about WP - is that the enclosures are automatic currently - this is going to change but it does mean you get an enclosure for every file you link to. So make sure that the only direct link is your podcast, other links to sites if possible...it's annoying and they are apparently going to fix it soon.

Tim

kickasspodcast

Jun 20th, 2005, 08:30 PM

Usually it's the high-end business hosts or semi-pro hosts that offer ASP, but usually they have a Linux/PHP option because quite a lot of governments and business and some corporates are using it now.

I must say, I didn't read any nastiness in Escape Pods post about this BTW - maybe I missed a subtext? I dunno. Didn't seem nasty to me? I suppose it's problem with text-only communication, you can read what you want into it sometimes (I'm guilty of that too sometimes, and also guilty of being misunderstood/misread too).

Yup- Exactly- I use http://aitcom.net I have reseller Windows ASP server account. Its geared to more commercial usage. They of course do offer Linux Servers w/ Apache/pHp/MqSQL etc.. there is a small fee and you have to back up everything yourself if you want to move over.. but I don't really have to so I am not at this point.

As far as the subtext, I think that alot of things do get misinterpreted and I am as guilty at that as the next guy- thanks for the sensible insights.

Thanks for all the people who posted lotsa killer info on this thread- am sure it will help people we will never meet.

Jack