What's it take to be top rated and what's that mean?

[Frank J.]

I'm a top rated blogger moving into the podcasting world (http://www.podcastalley.com/podcast_details.php?pod_id=4441) at the beckoning of other bloggers. I've done three podcasts now, and just finally listened to someone else's podcast to see what I'm up against. According to the one podcast I heard, I'm not too impressed. So what's it take to be the top podder, and what does that mean - like 12 listeners?

I'm looking forward to podcasting taking off in the future; I'm just curious where it's at now.

Your Friend,
Frank J.
http://imao.us

[sydbarrett]

I'm a top rated blogger moving into the podcasting world (http://www.podcastalley.com/podcast_details.php?pod_id=4441) at the beckoning of other bloggers. I've done three podcasts now, and just finally listened to someone else's podcast to see what I'm up against. According to the one podcast I heard, I'm not too impressed. So what's it take to be the top podder, and what does that mean - like 12 listeners?

I'm looking forward to podcasting taking off in the future; I'm just curious where it's at now.

Your Friend,
Frank J.
http://imao.us

1) have a huge radio audience that will download your podcast
2) anything religious (hey i'm not into amway either)
3) kids love potty chat and high school trashing
4) the seminar dudes get their suckers/marks/johnnys, i mean clients
to subscibe to more b.s.
5) get some 12 year old to provide program that manipulates podcast alley
voting

Or dude just worry about content and F the Alley listing

good luck Frank Man

[Frank J.]

I don't know any script kiddie twelve year olds, but thanks for the tips!

[jeffoest]

My advice?

Sure - listen to other podcasters to get an idea of what's out there. But, at the end of the day, that means very little. Work on your stuff, apply YOUR sensibilities (not what you perceive the 'market' to be), your value is YOU and not some perception of what the market wants.

The real value that podcasters bring to the table will come from those that follow their vibe. Not from trying to have some sort of 'media savvy' and matching an existing media market. You're part of defining the new 'edge'.... Sadly, there are some who still don't get this.

Welcome! Now get out there and be funny! ;-)

[PupuStudios]

Just to add to Syd's list. You could also outsource your votes to India.

[ferg]

Freshness, my friend, freshness. Staying fresh may not get you to the top of the podcast alley charts, but it will certainly make you a winner in my book.

[sydbarrett]

My advice?

Sure - listen to other podcasters to get an idea of what's out there. But, at the end of the day, that means very little. Work on your stuff, apply YOUR sensibilities (not what you perceive the 'market' to be), your value is YOU and not some perception of what the market wants.

The real value that podcasters bring to the table will come from those that follow their vibe. Not from trying to have some sort of 'media savvy' and matching an existing media market. You're part of defining the new 'edge'.... Sadly, there are some who still don't get this.

Welcome! Now get out there and be funny! ;-)

Wow Jeff
Awesome Stuff
Amen

My favourite...."your value is YOU and not some perception of what the market wants".

Second favourite: defining the new edge
if you define it, you are creating something new and not repackaging the same old same old.

Bang on Jeff

Awesome Jeff man

Listen to this man Frank, he knows what he speakith

Jeff is the man....

Later podPeople

[kickasspodcast]

1) have a huge radio audience that will download your podcast
2) anything religious (hey i'm not into amway either)
3) kids love potty chat and high school trashing
4) the seminar dudes get their suckers/marks/johnnys, i mean clients
to subscibe to more b.s.
5) get some 12 year old to provide program that manipulates podcast alley
voting

Or dude just worry about content and F the Alley listing


Absolutely 10000% true. Nobody could have said this any better. If you are a "TOP RATED BLOGGER" whatever the hell that means, then just go with your heart and you will probably succeed the to extent you do in the rest of your ventures.

Jack B.

[dcolanduno]

My favourite...."your value is YOU and not some perception of what the market wants".

Second favourite: defining the new edge
if you define it, you are creating something new and not repackaging the same old same old.

Bang on Jeff

Awesome Jeff man

Yea syd... I agree...

For a while I was caught up in what other podcasters were doing, and how to make my podcast more like what people were ranking up high on the list.

In the end, I just am doing something in a 'vaccuum' of sorts. I didn't use any tricks from other shows, or 'steal' anything conciously. I'm not doing it to TRY to be a 'top' show.

I just hope enough people like my own personal vision enough to make it a 'top' show in the minds of my listener group.

Since I get over 6 times the downloads than the number of 'votes' it takes to get the #1 spot. I figure I am doing pretty well. Not that it means I have as many listeners, I just would hope that one out of six of my listeners would vote if they didn't have to come to a particular website, search for my show, and hit a couple buttons to do it.

Even though it took a couple episodes for us to stop sounding like complete turd... we have hit a stride I have been happy with, and the rough edges seem to get more rounded each show.

[pwfenton]

I'm a top rated blogger moving into the podcasting world (http://www.podcastalley.com/podcast_details.php?pod_id=4441) at the beckoning of other bloggers. I've done three podcasts now, and just finally listened to someone else's podcast to see what I'm up against. According to the one podcast I heard, I'm not too impressed. So what's it take to be the top podder, and what does that mean - like 12 listeners?

I'm looking forward to podcasting taking off in the future; I'm just curious where it's at now.

Your Friend,
Frank J.
http://imao.us

****... You announce you are top rated, and that you've done THREE podcasts. Then you announce that you are not too impressed after hearing ONE episode of the 8000 podcasts out there that are not yours. Then you ask for advice on how to get to the top. Here's my advice... start all over with a more humble attitude.

What does it take to be the top "podder"? Well for a start it takes way more than just a boundless ego. Good start, Frank.

[Frank J.]

Bah. Don't have thin green skin.

[Illinoise]

Actually, that's coming from P.W.

I would listen. You could probably learn a lot.

[dcolanduno]

Yea, I'd listen to P.W. he does a good show, it isn't on the top 10, and it still has a huge following, and he is well known.

Why?

Like I said earlier, it is about doing what you believe in, what you WANT to do and do it well.

'Top Rated' is all about a situation of the mind.

Since there isn't much money in Podcasting, I would hope that you just measure your success on being 'tops' in the minds of the TYPE of people you want to talk to.

Put it like this...

If you did a Podcast on Archery, because you love shootin' the arrow. And you had 70% of the Archers listening. You would be 'top rated', or at least I'd be happy with 70% of an audience.

Well, if you were a music podcast, and had less than one percent of the total people that love to listen to music and listen to podcasts. You will likely have MORE subscribers than that 70% above. AND I'm not sure you would feel 'top rated'.

Now, if you did a SPECIFIC type of music, maybe then you'd feel better...

Make sense?

Charging into the Alley and boasting about being 'top rated'... and saying that after ONE podcast you feel that you can take over the world. I think, is a bit off-putting to a lot of folks. And that is all P.W. was trying to point out.

I think we all understand you goal, we just don't know what your target is.

[bramley]

Syd talks truth -- as well as humor -- in his list. There's really no good answer on how to be a "top" podcast since the high-vote receivers are actually pretty diverse in subject and production quality. And shows that were once in the top 10 have slipped not because the quality or content has changed but because listeners of a really great show are too busy listening to be bothered to bulk up votes.

You're part of defining the new 'edge'.... Sadly, there are some who still don't get this.

When I started doing my podcast, there was one other food show and a wine show. I set out to do something different from those and different from radio with its over-rapturous yammering about how great some expensive thing tastes or how surprising the obvious is. It wound up being a combo of different interests and approaches I have, and it keeps changing and evolving as I listen to other podcasts and hear voices and ideas that inspire me and as new folks come to work on the show and bring their particular talents.

[jeffoest]

And it would seem you're making all the right moves ;-) Great show!

[Frank J.]

The podcasting does seem more diverse; I come from the blogger world where political blogs rule the day, but I see the top podcast here not having anything to do with politics.

No reason not to aim high; while some of us are doing this for fun, we look for a large audience and other fortunes down the road. That's why we're tooling the podcast to what we think will make it play with more audience, i.e., less politics than the humor I do on my blog.

And all the boasting is merely me being faceitious (look up the proper spelling yourselves).

I am a top-rated blogger though.

[Illinoise]

Since we're on the topic, NASA Janet's top-rated at Frogger. She's got her initials in the top 10 and everything. So we definitely know what you're talking about.

It feels good, for sure.

[Frank J.]

A high score at Frogger doesn't automatically bring an audience to your podcast.

...or maybe it does; it's been a while since I played the game.

[alissa]

what does it take to be a top rated podcast. hmm. well, the system here seems kinda weird. it's based on votes. not traffic. so i guess it takes a dialup connection and a bunch of email addresses. or maybe large family who is willing to vote. or maybe a tour of all the coffee houses in your state.

are you having fun yet?

[kickasspodcast]

The podcasting does seem more diverse; I come from the blogger world where political blogs rule the day.

I am a top-rated blogger though.

1. Political blogs don't rule ****, they are just the most often viewed. We both know blogging never started out as the d.i.y. news pages that its become...

You seem like a cocky prick- sorry but just what you come across as. P.W. Fenton had it 100% on dude. Maybe go back to the blogosphere or something because you sure aren't makin many friends with your "I listened to 1 episode of 8000 podcasts" (each with obviously lotsa shows).. Also you aren't a top rated blogger, anyone who has ever said that is a ego-maniac. Nobody ever says they are a top rated blogger, they get asked to be on the Al Franken show and we all just know they must be good. IE: Atrios

Now- Go ahead and be the blogger you are, post the urls to about 10 links that prove me entirely wrong so you can be absolutely sure never to doubt yourself.

Podcasting couldn't be further from blogging than eggs are from the Ak-47. Its just sad to people who seem to be getting into podcasting to "make an impact" instead of just enjoying the diversity and rawness of the community.

Seriously man... just fall in love with podcasting as a whole and you will be just fine... but the ego **** doesn't work in blogging so I am really suprised you'd think it work in podcasting.

Besides- it is just near offensive to say- "what does it take to become a top podcaster- like 12 listeners?"

What would you expect us all to say?


Jack B.

(with $5 doses(of truth))

[Hittman]

What does it take to be the top "podder"? Well for a start it takes way more than just a boundless ego. Good start, Frank.

That was my impression too.

Don't get to cocky. You're not as good as you think you are.

None of us are either, but we've learned the difference between standing proud and strutting.

[Frank J.]

Okay, I'll tone it down a notch, but, actually arrogance and certain ego work in the blogosphere - at times (heard him on Al Fraken's show? I thought you were joking first time I read that).

Podcasting couldn't be further from blogging than eggs are from the Ak-47.

Oh, come on. I may be new to this whole podcasting thing, but a lot of it just an extension of blogging. Now instead of reading, you hear. The new media allows some different things, but its written word to radio. When more people do their own video (videocasting?) is that going to be a million jillion times different than podcasting?

And the question still stands: how many listeners does a top podcast have? Back in the day, the top blogs had in the tens of thousands of unqiue visitors; now it's hundreds of thousands since its become an entrenched form of media. Podcasting is still a novelty, and whether it grows to something bigger is yet to be seen.

Well, nuff typing; time to get back to work on the next podcast. I may be a prick, but it seems a few of you are too sensitive.

[dcolanduno]

Oh, come on. I may be new to this whole podcasting thing, but a lot of it just an extension of blogging. Now instead of reading, you hear.

Actually, you would 'think' that until you listen a lot of podcasts. I agree with the statement about eggs and AK-47's.

Remember, podcasting didn't 'come' from blogging, it had its roots with a few folks that were performing a 'new' type of subscription based time-shifted radio.

You will find podcasting is more like a mix of AM Radio and Cable Channels with a number above 100.

I think if you go out and subscribe to like 20 podcasts, and listen to a few shows of each, you will learn that it is far, far, far, away from blogging.

[Frank J.]

I guess instead of trying to list the similarities between eggs and Ak-47, I better go do some listening.

Making a podcast seemed either than figuring where to start in the listening department. Where should I start (I guess I can go listen to those of the podcasters who already hate me)?

[jimk]

Nobody ever says they are a top rated blogger, they get asked to be on the Al Franken show and we all just know they must be good. IE: Atrios

Oh good lord. You could have picked two names out of the phone book and gave better examples.

[ferg]

I may be a prick, but it seems a few of you are too sensitive.

I've noticed a trend here. It seems that people who are new to podcasting that come on these forums acting cocky, putting down other shows or just being obnoxious for the sake of being obnoxious (or because they are just, well, obnoxious) and people tell them that they don't like what they are saying, said obnoxious person throws out things like "you guys are too sensitive", "you have thin skin", or "you can't take a joke"

I don't get it.

Nobody acted offended by what you said. Nobody was crying about it on here, saying you hurt their feelings. All anyone did is disagree with you. I'm not sure how that qualifies as being insensitive.

All of that said, I listened to your latest show and rather enjoyed it. Let your show speak for you, and I think you'll be better off (just my 2 cents).

[Hittman]

I guess instead of trying to list the similarities between eggs and Ak-47, I better go do some listening.

Hmm, Eggs and AKs, let's see.

They both have their fans and detractors.

People argue about the health effects of both.

They both use shells.

They're both a good way to start the morning.

[sydbarrett]

I may be a prick, but it seems a few of you are too sensitive.

I've noticed a trend here. It seems that people who are new to podcasting that come on these forums acting cocky, putting down other shows or just being obnoxious for the sake of being obnoxious (or because they are just, well, obnoxious) and people tell them that they don't like what they are saying, said obnoxious person throws out things like "you guys are too sensitive", "you have thin skin", or "you can't take a joke"

I don't get it.

Nobody acted offended by what you said. Nobody was crying about it on here, saying you hurt their feelings. All anyone did is disagree with you. I'm not sure how that qualifies as being insensitive.

All of that said, I listened to your latest show and rather enjoyed it. Let your show speak for you, and I think you'll be better off (just my 2 cents).

please allow me to disagree with you ferg

there is a level of intolerance at the alley

totally understandible, because we are all new at this

however I agree with you that if you dish out criticism
you must also accept criticism.

why however, if I criticise the general state of podcasting as I see it
I'm branded by some as someone who
hang around a community they don't like based around a medium they don't like just to act dumb and crap all over everything that anyone says.
I love the medium
and I would like to add my voice in shaping some of its content

and if you view this thread, I believe you will see I did not "crap all over everything that anyone says."

And some are acting "offended"

However that is there choice.

In the end, I believe creativity will win
and the potential for this medium I so dearly love
will be reached.

Take care

[Frank J.]

Nobody acted offended by what you said. Nobody was crying about it on here, saying you hurt their feelings.

I detected some sensitivity on a few issues (not just from this conversation) by some. Perhaps I'm just the fool. Anyway, I go for jocular, and not prick, and seemed to have failed miserably (it's supposed to be funny I'm arrogant, because my first post showed how ignorant of podcasting I am; get it?).

Anyway, you all seem like good people (except, maybe, Syd). Thanks for the compliment on my podcast, ferg. I'll be quiet now and get to listening to all those who humored me in this bboard and have a podcast and then move on to what else I find.

Sounds like a fun new hobby. Nice to meet you all.

[ferg]

please allow me to disagree with you ferg
there is a level of intolerance at the alley


My original post was not directed at you, Syd, but I guess you kind of fall under the categorization I was describing...and I think you support the point I was making.

If you go into a room filled with any particular group of people and say something that dismisses or invalidates what the people are doing, simply because you happen to think what you're saying makes sense, and the people in that room disagree with you all at once (as one would expect), that does not constitute being "too sensitive", and it does equal "intolerance". It just means that you expressed your opinion, and the group expressed theirs.

[Frank J.]

And I don't mean a slight against Syd - he's just scary looking.

[bramley]

I've noticed a trend here. It seems that people who are new to podcasting that come on these forums acting cocky, putting down other shows or just being obnoxious for the sake of being obnoxious (or because they are just, well, obnoxious) and people tell them that they don't like what they are saying, said obnoxious person throws out things like "you guys are too sensitive", "you have thin skin", or "you can't take a joke"

Actually I was just about to post the same thing until I saw that you had.

there is a level of intolerance at the alley

This is also true, alas. These ideas are not incompatible.

Just my Libra rising moon or some such running through to balance things out. Now disperse and go start threads that are not about rankings or what makes a good podcast. Please?

(Thanks, Jeff and Pat, way upthread. I have to get around here more often.)

[sydbarrett]

please allow me to disagree with you ferg
there is a level of intolerance at the alley


My original post was not directed at you, Syd, but I guess you kind of fall under the categorization I was describing...and I think you support the point I was making.

If you go into a room filled with any particular group of people and say something that dismisses or invalidates what the people are doing, simply because you happen to think what you're saying makes sense, and the people in that room disagree with you all at once (as one would expect), that does not constitute being "too sensitive", and it does equal "intolerance". It just means that you expressed your opinion, and the group expressed theirs.
I believe the category you are referring to is obnoxious persons for $200.

If you must place me in that category, I'm fine with that ferg and I will not take it personally. I'm sure its no surprise to you I've been called worse.

I don't believe I called podcasters sensitive and I understand that you are referring to Frank.

So there have been a few that expressed the opinion I should leave. Not we disagree with your opinion, but that you have "nothing to contribute" "why is he here" "I hate the medium"

There are others that disagree with me, but see it as an opportunity to improve. They do not take offense, they see me as a challenge. They don't suggest I should leave because I express a different opinion, but they challenge me to contribute and invite me to listen to their podcasts.

These podcasters are the true stars of the alley

It is this obnoxious person's hope that you ferg are a star.
That you want to produce the best podcast you can possibly produce.
That different opinions present opportunities to improve.

And to the non-stars
I also wish you well
And I believe they have a chance too
To improve
To, as Jeff stated, "defining the new edge"

obnoxiously yours
Syd.

[ferg]

So there have been a few that expressed the opinion I should leave. Not we disagree with your opinion, but that you have "nothing to contribute" "why is he here" "I hate the medium"


Let me be the first to say that I have not, nor will I ever ask you or anyone else to leave.

But have you ever answered the question, "why are you here?" in any sort of a straight forward manner? I think it might be a valid question. I understand, based on what you've said, that you want to "shape" things with your "one voice", but what does that mean? It's pretty obvious why most of us are here.

If you're just here to have fun on the alley, and make a bunch of posts that are kind of amusing, but without real purpose, that's cool. It breaks up some of the monotony.... If you're here because Roger Waters "wished" you were, that's cool, too.

Sure, there are some people here who probably hate you and think you should leave because you're kinda weird. On the other hand, there are those of us who are genuinely curious what brings you here...and not only brings you here but inspires you to post at such a breakneck pace...

[jeffoest]

Chalk me up as one that finds Syd's posts mysterious and mostly funny. Good relief from some of the other stuff that gets tossed around here sometimes.

That said, I think we all probably would like to know what angle you come in at. Becuase if you are, as you say, a hopeful and optimistic listener - how did you get that way if you haven't been pleased with any of the offerings yet? What gives you such optimism?

Keep it real - dude!

[bramley]

because you're kinda weird

Aren't we all here?

[kickasspodcast]

We are proud of our wierdness.

[Frank J.]

I've only been lurking a day or two here, and it's already becoming apparent that Syd could maybe do a great anti-podcasting podcast.

I, for one, like constructive criticism. I hope others like it when I get some time together to start listening (I don't have an iPod to take them with me).

[Lifespring!]

I've only been lurking a day or two here, and it's already becoming apparent that Syd could maybe do a great anti-podcasting podcast.


I don't think Syd is anti-podcasting at all. He just seems to think that we are way below our potential.

That's probably true! Our "art" is in its infancy. We're all still learning. I can't wait to see where this whole thing is going to be in another year!

[Frank J.]

I don't think Syd is anti-podcasting at all. He just seems to think that we are way below our potential.

That's probably true! Our "art" is in its infancy. We're all still learning. I can't wait to see where this whole thing is going to be in another year!

Which again goes to my original question: How many listeners does a top podcast have (and yes, I know it's many more than 12)?

I'm interested to see where podcasting goes, myself, and me and my crew are in for the ride.

[sydbarrett]

So there have been a few that expressed the opinion I should leave. Not we disagree with your opinion, but that you have "nothing to contribute" "why is he here" "I hate the medium"


Let me be the first to say that I have not, nor will I ever ask you or anyone else to leave.

But have you ever answered the question, "why are you here?" in any sort of a straight forward manner? I think it might be a valid question. I understand, based on what you've said, that you want to "shape" things with your "one voice", but what does that mean? It's pretty obvious why most of us are here.

If you're just here to have fun on the alley, and make a bunch of posts that are kind of amusing, but without real purpose, that's cool. It breaks up some of the monotony.... If you're here because Roger Waters "wished" you were, that's cool, too.

Sure, there are some people here who probably hate you and think you should leave because you're kinda weird. On the other hand, there are those of us who are genuinely curious what brings you here...and not only brings you here but inspires you to post at such a breakneck pace...
No one has asked the question "why are you here?"
I take my iPod everywhere and I listen to different audio content.
From music, to old time radio, news shows, and even audio from T.V. shows.
The Alley provides a lot of content. Of the 3,500+ podcasts, I only have a few subscriptions.
I believe that somewhere out there is a podcast that I'll be interested in
Just last week Phil Gordon's World Series of Poker podcast became available and I think thats the best thing out there. But his podcast will probably last until World Series of Poker ends. I want more, I want podcasts that appeal to me. Thats why I'm here.
Amusing, I've never been asked why do I watch TV? why do you listen to radio? But here i'm asked "why are you in Podcast alley?" ok.

I guess you mean, why do I participate in the forum section.
Because I would, since I joined February, casually read various threads.
I believe these threads have some influence on Podcast content.
But most of the threads where similar in nature.
There is a lot of support over the media hype about podcasting.
But the content does not match the hype.
So I decided to contribute more to the forum, to express my opinions.
I do so using different and sometimes unusual manor. I also like to have a little fun with it. I like to think through my humour and wacky expressions that someone would appreciate my expressing a point of view that I believe many of the silent majority hold.

does that answer at least some of your questions?

[ferg]

does that answer at least some of your questions?

Awesome, syd, and thank you, you have answered my questions, and I'm glad to hear what you're saying. I wish more potentially avid podcast listeners such as yourself would participate in the forum, and I do get that you're trying to be funny (and I personally think that some of what you've said IS funny).

On the topic of influencing things, though...I wouldn't mind something a little more specific...i.e. what are you looking for? If you say, "I like this", then maybe someone else will recommend something else you may like. I realize that a lot of people may post saying "then, you'll like my podcast", when that's not necessarily true, but it's a start.

I'm going to check out the WSOP podcast. I wasn't even aware it existed. Perhaps I may have heard something that might be also of interest to you once I've heard that...

Thanks again for the taking the time to answer.

[docsnavely]

syd, you keep on keepin' on! I find your posts to be a breakaway from some of the hypersensitivity you find here occasionally!

[Lifespring!]

Which again goes to my original question: How many listeners does a top podcast have (and yes, I know it's many more than 12)?

I'm interested to see where podcasting goes, myself, and me and my crew are in for the ride.

Glad to have you along for the ride, Frank.

Numbers: Adam Curry says he has, like, 80,000 listeners. I've heard Leo Laporte say he gets over 100,000 downloads per show (The KFI Show he does.)

Does that help? Most of us are well below those numbers!

[jeffoest]

Awesome answer Syd, and thanks for sharing... dude!!! :-)

[dcolanduno]

I only have a few subscriptions.

LOL, why does that give me this idea of a feature called... 'What is on syd's podcast this week'.

[sydbarrett]

does that answer at least some of your questions?

Awesome, syd, and thank you, you have answered my questions, and I'm glad to hear what you're saying. I wish more potentially avid podcast listeners such as yourself would participate in the forum, and I do get that you're trying to be funny (and I personally think that some of what you've said IS funny).

On the topic of influencing things, though...I wouldn't mind something a little more specific...i.e. what are you looking for? If you say, "I like this", then maybe someone else will recommend something else you may like. I realize that a lot of people may post saying "then, you'll like my podcast", when that's not necessarily true, but it's a start.

I'm going to check out the WSOP podcast. I wasn't even aware it existed. Perhaps I may have heard something that might be also of interest to you once I've heard that...

Thanks again for the taking the time to answer.

Ferg, "what are you looking for?" is a difficult question to answer.
Either someone likes a podcast or he/she does not.
I guess many can answer that one easily.

I can list my interests, but every once in awhile something comes along
and "hits you in the face and gut" is so powerful and awesome as to reshape those interests. In TV, which I dont watch as much as I use too, that kind of thing happened with an HBO show called "Carnivale".
I would never have believed I would like a show about carnies from the 1930's. Some would say its a natural fit, however I could never describe a show like that to you, ever. Yes I could tell you that Carnivale main story line is about good vs evil. But most good and evil stories are not interesting to me. I'm not trying to avoid the question, I just find it heard to express and break down what I like and why I like something. I either like it or I don't.

With podcasting, I continue to search. I'm always looking at 5/10 Random Podcasts and 5/10 Newest Podcasts. If title looks interesting I will search show description. If that seems interesting I will listen to newest podcast.
Other times I will do a keyword search or scan through "Podcast by Genre" section. Also I will keyword search google.

So I guess if I can't clearly tell you, I'm not much help in directing content and the would be a valid point.

However, there is so much potential and I know something I really like is just the next podcast away.

[Frank J.]

However, there is so much potential and I know something I really like is just the next podcast away.

Don't worry, Syd, I'm sure after a little more retooling (the intro was way too long this time) ours will be the end all of podcasting and you'll be able to turn that frown upside down.

Man, I said to myself I wasn't going to do it anymore, but I can't help obnoxious boasting!

[jeffoest]

However, there is so much potential and I know something I really like is just the next podcast away.

Don't worry, Syd, I'm sure after a little more retooling (the intro was way too long this time) ours will be the end all of podcasting and you'll be able to turn that frown upside down.

Man, I said to myself I wasn't going to do it anymore, but I can't help obnoxious boasting!

Are you saying yours will end podcasting because it will be so bad? nyuk nyuk... just kidding.... nothing wrong with having confidence! lol

[Frank J.]

Are you saying yours will end podcasting because it will be so bad? nyuk nyuk... just kidding.... nothing wrong with having confidence! lol

Well, that's just stupid boasting - can't any podcast be anything to everyone. Just hope to do well for those looking for a laugh.

And not laughing at me either.

...hell, I'll take what I can get.

[spacemonkey]

Ah, Frank's been out making friends.

Just hope to do well for those looking for a laugh.

And not laughing at me either.

...[bleep], I'll take what I can get.

Well FRANK, making fun of you was a truck load of fun on this weeks 'cast.

[bramley]

every once in awhile something comes along
and "hits you in the face and gut" is so powerful and awesome as to reshape those interests.

Speaking on "nyuuk, nyuk"... I just had a guest on talking about Parmesan and artichoke flavored ice cream from the 18th-century. Definitely would hit you in the gut, I'd think. I suppose if you threw it, it could hit you in the face as well. :P

With your longer description, Syd, I'd recommend trying Simulacrum. Surreal at times.

[kickasspodcast]

Taken from Fergs website this morning:

I'll cut to the chase...Shelly and I are desperate for topics, so please, send any ideas you have along. In the meantime, you'll have to deal with our ramblings as we give Poetry the AirFerg treatment.

And your **** doesnt stink?


And you wonder why new people get on who are confident? I listen to lots and lotsa podcasts...

Hope you and shelly find something to talk about...


We could argue about Bloggers and Talk radio all day, I don't care about either enough to win the argument. But The Majority Report has 2-3 bloggers on their show every week. Franken does suck, Compared to Randi Rhodes-now thats my girl...

[ferg]

Taken from Fergs website this morning:

I'll cut to the chase...Shelly and I are desperate for topics, so please, send any ideas you have along. In the meantime, you'll have to deal with our ramblings as we give Poetry the AirFerg treatment.

And your **** doesnt stink?


I'm not sure I follow what you're saying here. Are you saying that our show stinks, or are you saying that I sound arrogant in that post?

[Frank J.]

Let's just all admit our excrement wouldn't make it as a colgne and be friends.

[jimk]

Let's just all admit our excrement wouldn't make it as a colgne and be friends.

Obviously you've never bathed in the ***-fragrance I create, my top-blogger friend. It has been likened to fresh summer rain on daisies.

If I could share it with you all via this int3rw3b thingy, peace would reign, this I promise.

//*** smells like ***, but wasn't that beautiful anyway?

[camilian]

mine smell like fresh baked bread

[kickasspodcast]

Frank J. wrote:
Let's just all admit our excrement wouldn't make it as a colgne and be friends.

Tell that to my Civet Cat!

http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/sci/A0812348.html

[kickasspodcast]

Taken from Fergs website this morning:

I'll cut to the chase...Shelly and I are desperate for topics, so please, send any ideas you have along. In the meantime, you'll have to deal with our ramblings as we give Poetry the AirFerg treatment.

And your **** doesnt stink?


I'm not sure I follow what you're saying here. Are you saying that our show stinks, or are you saying that I sound arrogant in that post?

I'm just saying we all have our up's and downs..

[ferg]

I'm just saying we all have our up's and downs..

Of course we do...I'm just not sure what your comments have to do with that quote from my site...i.e...

What did I say that suggested that I think my **** doesn't stink, or that suggested that I wonder why people come on here acting overconfident?

I'm just confused...

[kickasspodcast]

Well, Kinda ya.. I mean I understand that when someone like Frank comes in acting as if he is superior then its offensive to everyone else.

But what you said that got me thinkin' was that alot of people come in to these forums who are confident/cocky/egotistical etc..

Well I am saying there is surely a fine line between someone who feels they have sampled the podcasting pulse and feel they can put out something equally worthwhile...and someone who said they are some top **** blogger and they never heard a podcast but already had three done. I mean good for that guy.. but I do recognize that alot of the people who have been making podcasts for a while maybe aren't as solid as they wanna think they are... I mean I believe that its almost a marathon.. who can keep their show going until it(podcasting) finally takes off.. It wont be with Itunes 4.9 in 40something days.. it wont even be a year from now... we all have to stick it out or risk being completely forgotten and therefor meaningless. We set a goal to get 100 shows done, after that it will be to see the 200th and so on.. to some people who have already done 100's of shows we are insignifigant at most, but to all the billions of people who won't tune into podcasting (ever) if not years from now.. they don't care who started in Summer O4' and who started Spring 05' and there is no need to draw such little lines as far as newcomers.. its obviously a bit semantical in its case, I understand but at least we can hopefully curb the animocity and hopefully actually work together.
The whole thing that I didn't like about The thread starter was he said

"what I am up against"

That just sounds a bit too much like IAN from FTL for me to think he actually cares about community.. he seems to want to get to the top by competing as if this is a competition and a not some grand act of self expression/narcissism.

=)

The more posts I read by you ferg, the more I like you..

Have fun dude..


jack,

[ferg]

Well, Kinda ya.. I mean I understand that when someone like Frank comes in acting as if he is superior then its offensive to everyone else.

I understand it, too. However, being familiar with the community and finding enough hidden "gems" out there to keep my drive times filled, I know that there are SOME people out here that are really good at this. This also helps keep me humble. If I don't come across as such, believe me, I have no false pretenses about greatness here.

Actually, to be honest, the beauty of this whole thing for me is that I do it with my wife (well, not "IT" - we are married, and you know how that goes), but we podcast and it's become a mutual hobby, which is something we've never really experienced, and it really is great.


Well I am saying there is surely a fine line between someone who feels they have sampled the podcasting pulse and feel they can put out something equally worthwhile...and someone who said they are some top **** blogger and they never heard a podcast but already had three done.


Exactly. I totally agree....I mean, if we didn't think we were all at least "worthwhile", then why even bother? It's just that "worthwhile" is very subjective (very much in the ear of the be-hearer, so to speak)...and that's the thing that bugs me most...

I don't really care as much about people that come in here saying they are great. It irritates me much more when people say we shouldn't be doing what we're doing because we don't meet their particular criteria for what is "worthwhile". If you search the forum, you can find a few examples of such.


I mean I believe that its almost a marathon.. who can keep their show going until it(podcasting) finally takes off.. It wont be with Itunes 4.9 in 40something days.. it wont even be a year from now... we all have to stick it out or risk being completely forgotten and therefor meaningless.


I dunno, man. I honestly think that iTunes is going to change things, and if my listenership increases 25% because of it, I'll be happy. I'll still be a small fry, but I have enough listeners to give me feedback, and enough to give me reason to keep going. When I was in college, I played in bands that played in dive bars where we would have LOVED to have 50 people listening to us play....so, for us to have a small handfull of people we don't know (or at least didn't know before we started) listening is good enough for me. Of course, time to produce something of acceptable quality (in our minds) is the only potential issue down the road.


We set a goal to get 100 shows done, after that it will be to see the 200th and so on.. to some people who have already done 100's of shows we are insignifigant at most, but to all the billions of people who won't tune into podcasting (ever) if not years from now.. they don't care who started in Summer O4' and who started Spring 05' and there is no need to draw such little lines as far as newcomers.. its obviously a bit semantical in its case, I understand but at least we can hopefully curb the animocity and hopefully actually work together.


I totally agree. I do believe that, at some point, it really won't matter when you started - what will matter is what you do. Sadly, I do think markering yourself will become a bigger factor as well. Anyone can podcast. Given its relative exposure now, imaging what it will be like in the near future. Instead of 6-8K podcasts, there could be 100K...maybe more..


The whole thing that I didn't like about The thread starter was he said

"what I am up against"

That just sounds a bit too much like IAN from FTL for me to think he actually cares about community.. he seems to want to get to the top by competing as if this is a competition and a not some grand act of self expression/narcissism.


Yah. I know.
He's new, though, so I give him a little slack. I think if he had taken enough time to get to know the people particularly in this forum community, he might have realized that we are not all idiots who do really crappy podcasts and think we're superstars - that there's a lot of knowledge on these forums, and a lot of people who really care about getting better, and doing something of which they can be proud. There is a certain arrogance there - a certain air of "I know what's good, and you're not", but at the same time, his podcast is called "In My Arrogant Opinion" - at least he knows he's arrogant...and really, I would say, listen to his podcast - it is actually good.

Anyway, I would like to see people hang out for a bit first, and get to know the nature and knowledge of the crowd before they start unloading, but I don't want to tell people what to post any more than I want them telling me what to podcast.


The more posts I read by you ferg, the more I like you..


I hope you're not being facetious, and, even if you are, I'm down with you, too. I think this is a great place, and I like everyone, particularly those who genuinely make an effort to contribute (such as yourself) [and, yes, I know that's a subjective call on my part].


Have fun dude..


As they say in the Hokey Pokey, "That's what it's all about"

[Frank J.]

I just like to pretend to be obnoxious (bad habit I picked up from high school and the blogosphere). You've all beaten me down pretty bad and put the tail between my legs, so I'll curb it best I can.

Anyway, I do have a lot to learn about podcasting. It was Scott on my team's idea to do this and he's responsible for any professionalism in our first few casts. I went into the first one not sure what a podcast was.

If the blogosphere is any indication, cream rises to the top... even as the field gets more crowded. Still, being an early starter gives you a heads up... if audience is your main concern. Some people can be happy playing to a small audience, and I respect that. I know bloggers who have a paltry few readers in some eyes, but the blogger and the readers share a closer relationship than I am allowed with the size audience on my own blog.

Still, my goal for podcasting is getting a large audience. While that may seem shallow to some, being marketable is an art all its own.

[jeffoest]

You guys make good points and I've been thinking of something the last couple of weeks that I will try to articulate here.

It seems like a few people on the threads here have been developing more of a tendency to be quick to challenge or both get defensive and sometimes personally demeaning when challenged.

This does seem to happen more to relatively new folks to the forum more than the 'established' ones - well perhaps except for our bud Ian - lol - sorry Ian, but you are pretty quick to attack! (but we're glad you're here anyways). Some of that is done, I think, just to get some notice for their show (Corey and Joel, Soccergirl, come to mind off the top of my head) but some have other agendas.

My hypothesus is this. Because many people have put a lot of thought into their shows, into their technologies, into their strategies and because we all have egos, I think there is a (probably very human) tendency to think that others don't have the 'expertise' that we do. Or others aren't as prepared as we are, or others simply aren't as smart as we are. Most often I've found that this assumption is just not true.

Many threads can lead to better and more fruitful exchanges if we assume just the opposite - other people have put a great deal of thought into what they are doing and ARE as smart or smarter than we are and we have much to learn from everyone.

Course, sometimes a challenge can be fun too... ;-)

I think most people are competitive and we all want our shows to do well because we believe in what we are doing. But I also think that most podcasters are here to have fun and to meet other interesting people and form some types of connections as a great side objective. Those that have (I know I have) are getting a wealth of great vibe from new friends and learning a bunch along the way.

[Frank J.]

He's new, though, so I give him a little slack. I think if he had taken enough time to get to know the people particularly in this forum community, he might have realized that we are not all idiots who do really crappy podcasts and think we're superstars - that there's a lot of knowledge on these forums, and a lot of people who really care about getting better, and doing something of which they can be proud. There is a certain arrogance there - a certain air of "I know what's good, and you're not", but at the same time, his podcast is called "In My Arrogant Opinion"

I made no assumptions that you are idioits or have poor quality podcasts (I only assumed this is a burgeoning medium). I look forward to putting aside some time to listen to all your casts (busy week).

[jeffoest]

He's new, though, so I give him a little slack. I think if he had taken enough time to get to know the people particularly in this forum community, he might have realized that we are not all idiots who do really crappy podcasts and think we're superstars - that there's a lot of knowledge on these forums, and a lot of people who really care about getting better, and doing something of which they can be proud. There is a certain arrogance there - a certain air of "I know what's good, and you're not", but at the same time, his podcast is called "In My Arrogant Opinion"

I made no assumptions that you are idioits or have poor quality podcasts (I only assumed this is a burgeoning medium). I look forward to putting aside some time to listen to all your casts (busy week).

And Frank, just to be clear - I really didn't have you in mind when I made the above post.

[Frank J.]

Cool. Bad start for me - but at least I learned something :)

[jimk]

Let me just say that as a guy who has listened to each of Frank J's podcasts to date...they're frigging great. Getting better each time too. I listened to the latest one just today, and it's amazing that someone who has only done three shows has created such a fun and funny podcast.

Rough intros on the Alley aside, check his stuff out. It's SO very worth your time.

Frank, do you have to withhold part of the burritos for federal and state taxes? :)

[Frank J.]

Let me just say that as a guy who has listened to each of Frank J's podcasts to date...they're frigging great. Getting better each time too. I listened to the latest one just today, and it's amazing that someone who has only done three shows has created such a fun and funny podcast.

Thanks. Most of the credit goes to Scott for editing and doing a lot of the organization. Will have another one Monday (with hopefully a snappier intro) - though unfortunately no roundtable this time because of scheduling conflicts.

[kickasspodcast]

Ferg-I hope you're not being facetious, and, even if you are, I'm down with you, too. I think this is a great place, and I like everyone, particularly those who genuinely make an effort to contribute (such as yourself) [and, yes, I know that's a subjective call on my part].

Not being facetious at all Ferg.. and I also agree with alot of what you said, I think that itunes 4.9 will undoubtedly be a boost as far as exposure (and hopefully an influx of new listeners- and surely new podcasters) and it is something we can all look forward to. I do think that it will take at least another full year to have podcasting be "an everyday thing" to the extent that it ever will. I think it will always be either somewhat quirky and nuanced OR it will be obviously commercial and accepted as more commercial media. Some people (maybe most people) will never enjoy listening to average folks, or even sub-famous people like adam curry, talk about their lives and families. From a data standpoint I think the best thing about this is perhaps the detailed recording of our lives through our own unscripted words.

I try and remind myself as I explain to people what podcasting is (to me) that lots of people will not be interested at all, much like many people have no time for soft cheeses, a big % of mp3 listeners may never care... now we obviously know what they are missing(cause soft-cheeses AND podcasting are both clearly under appreciated), but my wandering point is that the more time that passes, the better software/hardware development the more likely it is that a greater % of people will even be interested, let alone subscribe to an xml feed and stay listening.

We loose as many listeners as we gain and must always remember that. Especially if we are going to stay honest and unscripted. Small Fry? **** ferg if your a small fry, I am that little broken corner of a fry stuck in the corner. We are really just getting off the ground, I make no bones about it- less than 1 month ago, we simply didnt exist. Now we get at ~700-1200 hits on our site a day, at least 50 downloads a day.. but still thats as insignifigant as it is personally meaningful. Not because I like to feel popular (its obvious that is not popular at all) - but because it gives me hope/confidence to continue.

Frank-I made no assumptions that you are idioits or have poor quality podcasts (I only assumed this is a burgeoning medium). I look forward to putting aside some time to listen to all your casts (busy week).

I will give you this for sure.. and thank you for it. As far as burgeoning medium, that is a point for dispute, some people think podcasting is 5 years old.. but anyways it is rapidly expanding now.... and As far as putting aside some time, I hear this more and more... I really enjoy doing things AND listening to shows...shopping at the grocery, working, driving, cooking,running erands etc.. I know not everyone's job allows them to listen to an mp3 player but the active listening thing is really great, you don't need to completely focus on the podcast you are listening to.. you may be more apt to find things you don't like by focusing directly on the show, than you would be to find yourself chuckling at someone's comment while weighing broccoli inthe market. -hope I am being clear..

Just a thought-


Jack-

[jeffoest]

Good thoughts Jack. BTW - if your numbers are correct, I would estimate that you are in the top 5th percentile in terms of downloads and hits. Good job! Especially for someone new! Not big numbers - but a big fish in a small pond perhaps! lol

Podcasting will never be as popular as radio because radio is so dog-gone easy. Just flip on a switch in our cars, on our mobile units, on our home stereo's and it's there... We're all driven here because we haven't been all that happy with radio, but a lot of folks out there are fine with it or just don't care that much!

[charleyw]

But I also think that most podcasters are here to have fun and to meet other interesting people and form some types of connections as a great side objective. Those that have (I know I have) are getting a wealth of great vibe from new friends and learning a bunch along the way.

That's just beautiful, Jeff. I had to run outside and hug a stranger. Unfortunately, Carol caught me. Here's some advice for everyone: You can't use "But I was meeting another interesting person to form some type of connection as a side objective" as an excuse for groping someone.

Charley

[dcolanduno]

Now we get at ~700-1200 hits on our site a day, at least 50 downloads a day..

Good thoughts Jack. BTW - if your numbers are correct, I would estimate that you are in the top 5th percentile in terms of downloads and hits.

Wow... that answers a question that I've had then about our statistics. I guess our issue is that we see relatively little feedback compared to our numbers. I just thought it took far more numbers to get more feedback.

We get about 80-120 downloads a day, average show is about 2300-2700, we've had one episode hit 4200, but it was advertised by some media circles.

My thing has always been that we only get between 1-2 phone calls an episode, maybe 3-4 emails or feedback responses. And the sound of crickets would be really loud if it existed in our fourms.

Maybe we just keep turning over 2200 fans an episode! ;)

[kickasspodcast]

Wow... that answers a question that I've had then about our statistics. I guess our issue is that we see relatively little feedback compared to our numbers. I just thought it took far more numbers to get more feedback.

We get about 80-120 downloads a day, average show is about 2300-2700, we've had one episode hit 4200, but it was advertised by some media circles.

****.. thats impressive!

I have gotten little or no feedback at all, other than the occasional 'nice show'.. That is why the people who have took the time to write out feedback (good & bad) mean so much to us.

Our biggest syndicated show is like 250 copies and even that made us run outside, take 2 shots of Yukon Jack and then dance the funky monkey.

I think the point you made the other day about a surplus of forums is a good one to be made. WE are opting not to have forums and once we can get some good WINDOWS server bloggin software it should allow easy commenting. I think that forums are cool, but you have to be wicked popular to get any activity. Ever look at the podcastpickle forums? Its depressing...

btw- anyone who has good windows bloggin software lemme know (I know its just a glorified guestbook using CGI scripts but please lemme know if you do- NO SQL- NO stupid linux server-Thanks)


Jack


ps- YES- I know some people like linux and YES I know why, but I dont.

[feastoffools]

One thing to keep in mind is that most people are away from their computers when they listen to the podcasts and therefore the people who actually comment on the shows is in the minority.

Unless a heated "conversation" starts to happen, then you get overwhelmed with comments.

[dcolanduno]

I think the point you made the other day about a surplus of forums is a good one to be made. WE are opting not to have forums and once we can get some good WINDOWS server bloggin software it should allow easy commenting. I think that forums are cool, but you have to be wicked popular to get any activity. Ever look at the podcastpickle forums? Its depressing...

Even the forums here have slowed down quite a bit. Lots of people reading and watching, less posting. People are getting more choosy with their posting time.

Yes, we are re-vamping our whole website over the weekend, and are going to re-do how our forums are.

I am just going to have the 'news' a 'general' and a 'show comments' section.

In the 'show comments' I am going to just post up a topic for each episode, and not allow new topics and then re-direct our 'show comments' to that section. Might drive up some visibility for the fourm, and have less places to scatter the discussion.

I've been more active in the already established forums that apply to the nature/topic of our show, so that seems to be working.

Our biggest syndicated show is like 250 copies and even that made us run outside, take 2 shots of Yukon Jack and then dance the funky monkey.

I know the feeling! I was shocked after the first couple days we had like 200 people download the first show we did... I was all "WOO HOO!" and we went and had a celebration dinner! hahaha... Trust me, I know that feeling.

[Frank J.]

That's where my blog is an advantage; I can just ask for feedback there and get plenty in the comment section.

Then again, these people are already fans of most of that humor and I don't get an idea of how it plays to other people (I have to tell them to hurt my feelings if I want some really critical remarks on how the podcast is working).

As for e-mails specifically for the podcast (I'm trying to do a mailbag segment), I've had to resort to free t-shirt for best e-mail to get people to send some.

My experience is that you have to be pretty controversial to get e-mails without much, and mainly from people you make mad. Not always my favorite e-mails.

[ferg]

We get about 80-120 downloads a day, average show is about 2300-2700, we've had one episode hit 4200, but it was advertised by some media circles.


Wow...I'd love to have those numbers. We haven't had a show downloaded more than about 450 times. We had no listeners, then, some time ago, they played our promo on DSC and Dawn and Drew (back when they still played promos), and we jumped up to about where we are now, and we've been holding roughly steady ever since.

I guess that means we're either

1) Keeping all of our listeners, but not gaining any new ones. I don't consider this likely...I'd think if they were *that* loyal, they'd actually tell someone else about it...

2) Losing as many listeners as we gain. Probably more likely.

I'm totally guessing, but my feeling is that there are roughly 200-300 people that hear each show. Here's why:

The file is downloaded by, say 400 people overall. My feedburner circulation is around 200. I figure of that 200 at least half of it is bots and people that subscribed to check it out, but don't actually listen...the majority being the later. So of my 400 downloads, at least 100 of them are downloaded but never listened to...I'm going to assume that MOST people that download directly from the page actually listen to the show.

So...maybe ~300 actual listeners. To be honest, if that's true, I'm thrilled. When I started doing this, my goal was to have 100 listeners after 6 months. I guess I imagine myself performing for a room of 300 people. That's good enough for me....

Well, it's enough to keep me doing it, anyhoo...of course, I'm always striving for more listenerse.

Derek, you've gotten a lot of success early...perhaps you can share some pointers on bringing people to your 'cast.

[dcolanduno]

My experience is that you have to be pretty controversial to get e-mails without much, and mainly from people you make mad. Not always my favorite e-mails.

Yes, 40% of the little feedback I get are people correcting some of our information, or supplying more information on a topic we covered, where they think we didn't cover it enough.

Our 'flat earth' episode had a PhD Mythologist 'correct' us with like 13 pages of information. And it was only one 10 word comment out of 22 minutes of information!

Not that I mind, some of the stuff he sent was really cool.

I'm going to have to hide the children when we do our Creationism / Intelligent Design / Evolution show...

[Frank J.]

This is probably a newbie question, but how do you keep track of downloads?

[ferg]

This is probably a newbie question, but how do you keep track of downloads?

It's black magic, baby...
I personally have web stats that report the number of successfully completed downloads (as well as hits). Also, a lot of states packages report number of bytes downloaded...if you divide by the file size, you can get a rough idea.

Some of it is guess work, but you most stats packages will give you a general idea.

[kickasspodcast]

These are stats generated in the last few days.


Files Downloaded the most Total

# AVG %
/kapc8.mp3 66 13.20 22.76
/kapc9.mp3 36 7.20 12.41
/kapc6.mp3 32 6.40 11.03
/kapc2.mp3 32 6.40 11.03
/kapc7.mp3 31 6.20 10.69
/promo.mp3 20 4.00 6.90
/kapc5.mp3 19 3.80 6.55
/kapc4.mp3 18 3.60 6.21
/kapc3.mp3 18 3.60 6.21
/kapc1.mp3 12 2.40 4.14
/soul2space.mp3 4 0.80 1.38
/mnnax2.mp3 2 0.40 0.69
Total for Period (12 items) 290 24.17 n/a

Automatically Generated by Statistics Server 5.02
Copyright © 1996,1997,1998,1999 MediaHouse Software Inc.


It should be said that we have regular troubles with our feed.
Xml is so cranky-one misplaced / or .
Even with podifier it still doesn't want to work all the time..

as far as tracking your downloads, each server offers different ways to monitor. WE get an ip for each download so we can go to http://www.dnsstuff.com/ and find out where it went.. but some servers have this function builtin.

jack

[dcolanduno]

The file is downloaded by, say 400 people overall. My feedburner circulation is around 200. I figure of that 200 at least half of it is bots and people that subscribed to check it out, but don't actually listen...the majority being the later. So of my 400 downloads, at least 100 of them are downloaded but never listened to...I'm going to assume that MOST people that download directly from the page actually listen to the show.

I'd have to agree, I think our 'listener' base is probably about 1700-1900 out of that 2300-2700. People that download and don't listen, bots, mis-fired downloads, etc. We get about 23% at last look that 'directly' download. I just have no way of knowing if they finished downloading or not, so I like to count about 70% of them when being conservative.


you've gotten a lot of success early...perhaps you can share some pointers on bringing people to your 'cast.

Most of my 'advertising' effort has been in active forums with folks that are like-minded. Mainly science, theory, and critical thought circles. Maybe our numbers are reflective of an audience that doesn't really listen to many types of show other than the few that are in our niche.

After assessing our feedback and such, I would say that our 'lowest' numbers of audience are other podcasters or folks that usually frequent podcasting forums/circles. Not that it was for a lack of trying, but our show isn't one of the staples of the traditional podcasting audience.

We aren't;

- Music related

- Comedy / Fun-Talk

- SHORT (Our show averages 60mins)

- Technology Related

Those are the 'typical' popular podcast attributes in the 'podcasting circles' and I actually, listen mostly to shows that fit those formats.

I don't know if you have ever heard our show. But it is a wierd niche of people we hit. We REALLY try to be 'non political' even though the topics we discuss 3 out of 5 times are often discussed in a political light by mainstream media. (sometimes folks mix politics and hard facts, which can have some pretty bad results)

Our show is a 'Science, Education and Information', with a twist that really is hard to categorize.

In fact, I got a question the other day... "What category do I nominate you in for the podcast awards."

I went and looked at the categories and all I could really say is 'Educational'. I really think they need to add a 'Science' category to that list. But I think it might be too late.

So, back to our 'success' which is a great way for me to think now, because until today I was VERY unsure of our numbers and didn't know if they were good/bad/normal/etc... I was concerned based on feedback, or lack thereof.

I believe our success came from picking a 'format' topic, sticking to that, and making ourselves known in that niche.

[ferg]

I'd have to agree, I think our 'listener' base is probably about 1700-1900 out of that 2300-2700. People that download and don't listen, bots, mis-fired downloads, etc. We get about 23% at last look that 'directly' download. I just have no way of knowing if they finished downloading or not, so I like to count about 70% of them when being conservative.



I'm not questioning your stats, but just passing some information along...since my logs record successful downloads, I can compare the number that are successful versus those that simply request the file. I've found that the number of requests for the file is roughly 3-4 times the number of complete downloads. (i.e. most of my shows are requested around 1200 or so times, but only 400 downloads).

There was another thread on this forum about a week or so ago, where other people reported an even greater difference between requests and complete downloads.

If you have stats show the number of kbytes transferred total for each file, you can divide by the file size and get a rough idea of how many actual downloads there are.

Regardless, thanks for sharing the information. It's very helpful. I've been trying to find ways to make our podcast known outside of this forum (which is inhabited largely by other podcasters)...

[dcolanduno]

Regardless, thanks for sharing the information. It's very helpful. I've been trying to find ways to make our podcast known outside of this forum (which is inhabited largely by other podcasters)...

Oh I didn't think you were questioning the stats, I was just reminded that I should have tempered the numbers with some conservative knowledge that your total numbers are not actually always all listened to, or complete. :)

Here is something interesting, food for thought;

I have a lot of friends that are not into podcasting, of course, since they are my friends, they all KNOW about it. And, they deal with my constantly discussing new shows, etc.

The feedback I kept getting was that the shows are too 'short'. Which is funny, since in the 'podosphere' the podcasters keep trying to tell people to make podcasts 'shorter'. Which I guess is fine if you are trying to get played on the Sirius radio show, or play to folks that are SOOOOO into podcasts that they try to listen to 30-40 at a time.

So, most of the people I talked to, and my friends that liked the idea of podcasting, were frustrated with the shows being so short, especially the music and talk shows. Basically, a lot of people I know download shows for like a couple weeks while listening to normal radio or XM and then listen to some podcasting all at once.

In any case. Jason from Insomnia put up a 2 hour music show this week. I sent an email with a direct link to the show and said it was 2 hours. EVERY one of the 12 people I sent it to were stoked to see a long show like that. And, are hoping it stays that way.

So, just to give some perspective on folks that aren't 'geeks' that like the idea of podcasting, but don't 'get' why the shows need to be 15-20mins. It is one of the reasons I kept my show long. I played a sample of a 20min version of the show for some folks that were outside the pod-o-sphere and they all loved the 60min show, and shrugged off the 20min version.

The best comment that illustrates it I got in email:

"I like the 60min show, would like it longer so you can go into more detail and have more 'personality' time as well. Radio shows are usually 2-3 hours and with DSL, I have no problem downloading long shows every few days. 20mins is more like a commercial, which, I guess is what podcasters like, or is 'the standard' then that is cool. I just don't 'get it'. Most of my buddies all just listen to podcasts now and then, since they don't fill enough 'space', or you don't get enough of what you like."

I see both sides of all this, just thought some folks would be interested in that information.

[Frank J.]

The feedback I kept getting was that the shows are too 'short'. Which is funny, since in the 'podosphere' the podcasters keep trying to tell people to make podcasts 'shorter'. Which I guess is fine if you are trying to get played on the Sirius radio show, or play to folks that are SOOOOO into podcasts that they try to listen to 30-40 at a time.

For the latest show, we went for shorter bits and shorter overall program. The shorter bits seemed to work, but there were a lot of complaints about overall length.

If something is good, people can't get enough. If you can do an hour show that keeps people engaged, more power to you.

[jeffoest]

Hey Derek,

I'm intrigued - Neither Pat or I have listened to your podcast yet (forgive me!) but we both love 'science' topics - usually slipping some stuff into our podcasts as well. We are a scientist-friendly podcast!! lol

I find it VERY interesting and surprising that folks are wanting 2 hours or more length in a show! It's just counter-intuitive to what I would have thought. I've always made the assumption that people listen to podcasts in their car, at the gym ("on the go" so to speak) and some on the computer (but mostly for background music while they are working)... The exception I would think would be vacationers, truck-drivers, frequent fliers, etc...

Where do your audience or sampled friends listen to your podcast and how do they have so much time? It's hard to multi-task talk podcasts - i.e. listen while doing something else that requires focus (like work).

I'm just interested in your perceptions and findings and not at all questioning them - I've seen read too many of your posts to know you are not one to mislead....

[ferg]

From my perspective, I want as much of the stuff I like as they can provide and still maintain that level. A lot of the 'casts I listen to are done weekly or less. I have roughly 7 or 8 hours of drive time, not to mention often much more desk time (if I'm working from home), and I really don't have enough to listen to...

I don't, however, want podcasts to be watered down for the sake of making them longer, but if you can put out a good 2 hour podcast, then that's great...it would cover a couple o' commutes.

[kickasspodcast]

Where do your audience or sampled friends listen to your podcast and how do they have so much time? It's hard to multi-task talk podcasts - i.e. listen while doing something else that requires focus (like work).


This is true, but anyone who has every been hooked on audio-books can tell you it is just an aquirred skill. I have listened to audio-books for a long time and its totally ez to process data (at my job) or do other tasks while listening to Elmore Leonard or any other author. Its harder when the language is different (old english, french) but its just a matter of practice.. besides you can always hit pause!

The whole notion of making shorter podcasts is just plain silly, there is no reason to even look at the length of a show when it should be judged solely on content and entertainment value. If you are talking about a radio or TV show then yeah time can be a real issue, but since people pick and choose what podcasts they want to listen to there is no need to give people a shorter show unless the actually demand it. Our shows vary alot but all of them are at least 30 min the longest is about 70 min - we try and keep it between 35-70 min, BUT we play at least 3-4 songs and they aren't always 3 min zingers either.. I think the beauty of podcasting is that you can do whatever you want and the people who like it will listen, again.

I don't, however, want podcasts to be watered down for the sake of making them longer
No kiddin' that would totally suck!

IMHO,

jack

why won't anyone send us their promos :cry:

submit@kickasspodcast.com

[jeffoest]

Jack - You've explained it!! I, not being audio-book experienced have not been able to experience that type of aural nirvana...

I think perhaps as somewhat a product of the MTV generation, I tend to reach for podcasts under 60 minutes (though I prefer 30) and I really appreciate podcasts of 5-15 minutes occasionally to fill in the gaps... but I think we all do agree - good content is good content and we have the medium and abilities to not have constraints!!

[kickasspodcast]

Amen!

[Hittman]

I elected to keep mine short for several reasons.

I personally prefer shorter podcasts.

My cast is just me pontificating, and I think that would get dull if it were too long.

I believe in the second rule of show business.

Keeping it short can be a real challenge – and I like real challenges. (Pascal once wrote to a friend "I have made this [letter] longer, because I have not had the time to make it shorter..")

I don't have a lot of time to do them, and a longer cast would require significantly more time investment. (I'm picky about editing out word wiskers, breath intakes, etc.)


The second rule of show biz is "always leave them wanting more." There are quite a few 15-20 minute casts that have me saying "****, it that all there is? I want MORE." Very few longer ones that do. In fact, there's one long one I regularly download but quit out of half way through – I've had enough, time to move on.

Interesting, though, that so many people want longer ones. We tend to forget that what we like isn't necessarily what the general public likes.

[dcolanduno]

Interesting, though, that so many people want longer ones. We tend to forget that what we like isn't necessarily what the general public likes.

I was VERY surprised. We always hear the old; "Longer Promos, Shorter Podcasts." mantra on DSC, and that is a pretty typical cry in most podcasting.

Most of my feedback from podcasters was to try and get the show down to 30mins. We did ONE test show that way, and almost immediately got comments about 'the other half of the show'. The non-podcasters, which make up a ton of my listeners all were confused. So, I re-edited the show and just made it like it was '2 parts'.

My cast is just me pontificating, and I think that would get dull if it were too long.

EXACTLY. This is why our 'Whimsicality shows, which we do once a week are 10-15mins. They are Swoopy doing a 'pontification'.

Plus, if you were a master of doing 'short' cool stuff, my last show wouldn't have been as COOL! I have to give you a public praise for the segments you have added to my show Hittman, it's been great stuff.

Keeping it short can be a real challenge – and I like real challenges. (Pascal once wrote to a friend "I have made this [letter] longer, because I have not had the time to make it shorter..")

Since we do 4 segments a 'normal' show. (Something Old, Something New, Something Borrowed, Something Blue)... we actually keep each one to 15mins or less, since we have promos between each one, and the news at the beginning.

Yea, keeping one topic below 15mins on a pontification run IS HARD!

Our 'normal' shows hit an average of 50-60mins. Our interviews are always about an 1 hour 10mins. I guess that is just the old radio guy in me. When you put in 10-15mins of promos and setup, you have about an hour of guest. Typical guest segment back in my ESPN radio days.

[bramley]

I have listened to audio-books for a long time and its totally ez to process data (at my job) or do other tasks while listening to Elmore Leonard or any other author. Its harder when the language is different (old english

I hate to be a total geek, but there are no audio books in old English. I would love to be corrected on this though.

This whole conversation is fascinating me because I had the same assumptions about long and short shows. I was shocked to hear listeners emailing me and saying they liked longer ones when I asked. (but like 20 mintes or 45 was the question) I have a very short attention span, so I just assumed other people did too.

Anyway, I appreciated getting to hear everyone else's assumptions and experiences.

[ferg]

why won't anyone send us their promos :cry:


Do you care if it starts with "Hi Adam..." :lol:

[Hittman]

I think it also has to do with the amount of time a listener can devote to podcasts.

My commute is about 30 minutes each way, and I also listen to them while playing poker on line (a couple of hours a week, typically). That's not a lot of time, and I've got to really love a podcast to give it all of my time for the day. I'll be doing a lot of traveling fairly soon, which will involve drives of 3-5 hours each way, and then I'll probably appreciate the longer ones more.

Recommendation: I downloaded all of the Tips From The Top Floor podcasts, and have been listening to them from the first to the most recent. It's all about digital photography, and the casts are very short, but he packs an amazing amount of information into each one, and still does a bit of chatting about the weather and his life. (His weather observations typical lead into advice about shooting photos in different lighting conditions.) Anyone trying to shorten their casts should give this one a listen.

[jeffoest]

I agree. Tips From the Top Floor is a great podcast AND, perhaps even more importantly, I think a great model for cool podcasts. I'm also toying with the idea of creating a small 'quick hit' podcast to share something that I have an expertise in. I would love that for additional things that I would like to learn more about.

I will say, longer podcasts have their merits in the depth, but quick podcasts are pretty easy to listen to mentally...