You're all missing the point.

[SFEley]

Guys. All this inane back-and-forth about "real podcasts" and splitting out voting lists is pointless. It's nothing but head games; it doesn't address what people are actually doing with podcasting. Anything you do to "refine" the voting system will be reactive by nature, and there will always be something new to complain about.

The Podcast Alley vote system is obsolete. That's all there is to it. It was great for a while, it got people to notice each other's quality podcasts and it brought a lot of attention to Podcast Alley, but it's dead now. Podcasting has grown beyond it, and the people who obsess about PA votes in their podcasts will need to get over it too or they'll begin to look sillier and sillier as time passes.

Podcast Alley is a great site. It's a good index, it's got great forums, and the feedback/comment system on podcasts is a good idea. It needs to play up those features or invent new ones and play down the voting. That's successful adaptation; not more and more iterations to "fix" the voting system.

And all you podcasters? Find other ways to promote your podcasts. There are plenty of great ways to do it, and new ones will be developed constantly. Put your creativity into that, because "Top 10 at Podcast Alley" isn't tomorrow's brag point. It's yesterday's.

[F7sound]

Podcast Alley is a great place. But, the focus on the "top 10 list" and voting is probably related to the fact that the outside press believes that this is the closest thing to "Billboard" for podcasts.

They tend to cover the top rated podcasts according to Podcast Alley, whether it's accurately reflective of podcast popularity or not. Hey, I'd love to be in the "Top 10" here!

Michael Oster
F7 Sound and Vision
http://www.F7sound.com
the Difficult Listening Channel - http://www.F7sound.com/podcasts.htm
my blog - http://michaeloster.blogspot.com

[SFEley]

They tend to cover the top rated podcasts according to Podcast Alley, whether it's accurately reflective of podcast popularity or not. Hey, I'd love to be in the "Top 10" here!
That was true for a few months. Anyone know if it's still true now?

It certainly won't be true as the voting system decays, if it becomes obvious that the "Top 10" shows don't have the grassroots feel or aren't that good. All the more reason to get started now on alternative publicity strategies.

[F7sound]

Well, Podcast Alley is not my only method of publicity.

I think with Adam Curry "endorsing" Podcast Alley via Podshow, it kind of reinforces the old "Top 10" podcast popularity.


Michael Oster
F7 Sound and Vision
http://www.F7sound.com
the Difficult Listening Channel - http://www.F7sound.com/podcasts.htm
my blog - http://michaeloster.blogspot.com

[volwrath]

I think the voting might need to tweaked somewhat. For instance, only let registered people vote. Then have an auto-vote list where the top 5 podcasts are automatically entered for each member (remove some of the monotony of voting) Little things like that. Also each genre should be sorted by the highest number of votes.

nonehteless this place is an excellent clearinghouse for podcasts.

[RoadUP]

Also each genre should be sorted by the highest number of votes.

they are sorted that way already, yes?

-- Jim
___________
The RoadUP podcast is in production.

[vox_monitor]

which is of course, today's. And I think an objective assessment says that PA's top ten is still extremely relevant to a great number of people, especially MSM. I agree that it isn't tomorrow's, and I agree that it is important to diversify, but let's not overlook it's importance on the podcasting landscape right now.

I'd like to think that at some point, making the Vox Monitor favorite 5% or the Vox Monitor recommended lists will be very significant.

e

[Insomnia Radio]

F7sound wrote:
They tend to cover the top rated podcasts according to Podcast Alley, whether it's accurately reflective of podcast popularity or not. Hey, I'd love to be in the "Top 10" here!

That was true for a few months. Anyone know if it's still true now?

Honestly gang, I don't believe it IS true anymore. About two months ago I took a "vote for me if you like, I won't shove it in your face" approach. My ratings now hover between 55-100th. However, since then, I've been mentioned in Business Week Online and a few other places.

Not trying to toot my own horn, but I really think that word of mouth counts. And also, that journalists are starting to do their homework instead of blindly glancing at the PA top 10.
[/quote]

[Charles]

patience young gr*****pper...

I think what almost everyone is really in agreement on is that Spamcasts like the Big Live Seminar that are totally a come on AD for their $2000 program and MLM scheme have no business at all being on Podcast Alley.

What can we do to keep Total Ads/Informercials of dubious integrity off of here?

I also suggest that instead of a Top 10 that there be a Top 25 as there is plenty of room down the right side for a Top 25 listing.

Along with that I suggest making the Top 50 page a Top 100 page.

This small changes would accomodate the almost 3500 podcasts listed now and include more podcasts in the top rankings.

[jimk]

I also suggest that instead of a Top 10 that there be a Top 25 as there is plenty of room down the right side for a Top 25 listing.

Along with that I suggest making the Top 50 page a Top 100 page.

This makes a LOT of sense.

[volwrath]

patience young gr*****pper...

Interesting ... since I am in Nashville can I visit the podcastalley studios ?!? :)

[Illinoise]

I hate to say it, but all of this will become a moot point by the end of the summer.

With the advent of iTunes podcasting support, all eyes will be there. It's PODcasting, remember? Who is more authoritative than the namesake of podcasting? Apple will be able to track show downloads, pick their own favorites, and essentially make or break podcasts.

My friends and family don't know a thing about aggregators and RSS feeds, but they've all bought a song off of iTunes and can click a button to subscribe to a feed.

Podcast Alley has been a fun ride and may continue to be a great venue for podcaster discussions, but Apple is taking the keys back.

[Insomnia Radio]

Podcast Alley has been a fun ride and may continue to be a great venue for podcaster discussions, but Apple is taking the keys back.

I have to agree here. Apple is going to OWN podcasting. They will make it their brand, their baby, the general public will think they INVENTED it.

However, I don't think you can discount Podcast Alley just yet. There's always room for an organic and vocal community like this one, and I don't see it disappearing anytime soon.

[Insomnia Radio]

Sad I had just bought a brand new wardrobe of pajamas and thrown out all my 'regular clothes' thinking i could spend the next couple of years working on podcast alley.

find any GI JOE Pj's? God**** those rocked...

Yea Chris, like I said, as big as Apple will elevate this, there's no replacing an existing community. Don't fret :-)

[Illinoise]

:( I had just bought a brand new wardrobe of pajamas and thrown out all my 'regular clothes' thinking i could spend the next couple of years working on podcast alley.

There's one thing I know about Chris: he's resilient.

He's lived through countless vote-cheat scandals. He's had more press than most podcasters and certainly non-podcasting non-podcasters. HE WILL LIVE THROUGH THIS.

Because Apple may or may not have the king's share of podcasting, they have awful community. Yes, you can listen. But where do you go to commune? Isn't the biggest part of podcasting the community?

Oh, don't you worry about Chris. Podcast Alley was first and best. It will be around for a long, long time.

Unless he sells it to Adam Curry. ;)

[SFEley]

Podcast Alley has been a fun ride and may continue to be a great venue for podcaster discussions, but Apple is taking the keys back.

Yeah, it's all doomed. Remember how, when Apple started selling music, everyone else stopped releasing music online and all the music discussion boards shut down?

...Oh. Wait. Me neither.

[Ian]

PCA Top Ten obsolete? Don't think so. The Wall Street Journal contacted each of the top ten for interviews last week.

That's hardly obsolete.

The only issue with the Top Ten, as I see it is freshness: the PodSpam that is on there right now, would not have gotten there if there was some sort of freshness window.. like one cannot be on the top ten if one has not produced any content for 2-3 weeks.

The PodSpam hasn't done jack since April.

Regards,
Ian

[jeffoest]

PCA Top Ten obsolete? Don't think so. The Wall Street Journal contacted each of the top ten for interviews last week.

That's hardly obsolete.

The only issue with the Top Ten, as I see it is freshness: the PodSpam that is on there right now, would not have gotten there if there was some sort of freshness window.. like one cannot be on the top ten if one has not produced any content for 2-3 weeks.

The PodSpam hasn't done jack since April.

Regards,
Ian

Ferg - are you going to say anything about his "freshness" window?

[Ian]

Sort of like the Engadget controversey from the "old days".

2-3 weeks gives people enough time to recover if they go on a vacation, or end up in the hospital (If that were to happen, podcasting would likely not be on their front burner anyway.)

[Illinoise]

PCA Top Ten obsolete? Don't think so. The Wall Street Journal contacted each of the top ten for interviews last week.

That's soooooo last week.

Actually, I said that ONCE iTunes 4.9 comes out, THEN PA will become obsolete AS A RANKING SYSTEM. So you have a good four weeks to bathe in the glory of your top-tenedness.

Attempting to rank podcasts by "vote" when there is a larger, more authoritative organization doing it by pure, unadulterated listenership is a bit like your local radio station doing the Top 8 at 8: yes, it makes the pre-teen girls giddy, but it's not moving records on a national level like Billboard will.

But, then again, if you're in it for the pre-teen girls ...

[ferg]

The only issue with the Top Ten, as I see it is freshness

Ferg - are you going to say anything about his "freshness" window?

As you wish...

I think that everyone (and by everyone I mean the handful of AirFerg listeners) know where AirFerg stands on the topic of freshness, but for those of you who haven't had the pleasure...

AirFerg advocates freshness by any means necessary. Sometimes obtaining or achieving freshness is not pretty, nay, it can be quite difficult and unappealing. However, it is our civic duty to see that any lack of freshness anywhere be struck down with great swiftness and resolve.

I do not know if 2 or 3 weeks is a sufficient period to lose freshness. I suppose that a lot of that depends on how fresh the subject was to begin with. I think though, that a period of 1 month is long enough to guarantee that anyone not freshened within that period can be safely deemed to be lacking in freshness, if not void of it altogether.

As freshness relates to the topic of podcasts themselves, I do feel that if someone is not producing content at least monthly, then it ceases to become a podcast, and should be given the label of "a bunch of mp3 files on a server somewhere". Perhaps the Ferf could implement an archive whereby those looking for said files could find them. This I do not know.

It is important that I reiterate here that it is perhaps freshness that counts most - far above and beyond any notoriety or status associated with rank or votes. For you may have all of the votes and visibility of the world, but if you have freshness, you have nothing.

[jeffoest]

I vote for a category called "a bunch of mp3 files on a server somewhere" - in fact, I think I'm going to start marketing my podcast that way .... it's hot.

[ferg]

On the subject of the PCA top 10 becoming obsolete...

I tend to agree. PCA right now is primarily a resource for podcasters. I still believe that most of the regulars here are podcasters, and why? because it is a great podcasting resource.

According to that demo, iTunes is going to have a permalink on the nav just like "radio" and 'iTunes" store. Thousands and thousands of people who have never even heard of podcasting before are going to see that, click on it, and, hopefully, start downloading podcasts. I do expect the total number of listeners to exponentially increase (shameless plug: checkout the latest AirFerg to see what anything "exponential" might be able to do for you).

The interest in podcasting will be skyrocket, and the number of podcasts there are now, will start to quickly increase with it. With all of that, a valuable resource for podcasters (such as podcast alley) will become even more significant, even though I do think the value of voting stature will dwindle.

We could all be wrong. It could be a big bust, but I don't think so.
I'm ready to get excited....

[volwrath]

As a non-podcaster semiregular semilurker, I don't necessarily think itunes is the endall beall to podcasting. Ive been a listener to various podcasts for a couple of months, but I have never had itunes on my machine, and don't really plan on it.

EDIT: Having said this, I am sure that WMP and iTunes competitors will also jump on the podcast wagon.

[JesusGeek]

now you guys do realize that all this is going to be irrelevant once 4.9 comes out, right? you might want to save the arguments until the iTunes ranking become the defacto standard for ranking podcasts.

PA might still be useful to track non-professional, non-commercial, made for fun podcasts, but the top 10 is going to be owned by the big boys, guaranteed.

when Jobs calls podcasting the hottest, most important thing in radio today, you better believe the media giants are listening.

[volwrath]

might still be useful to track non-professional, non-commercial, made for fun podcasts, but the top 10 is going to be owned by the big boys, guaranteed.

Please explain to me why 'The Big Boys' are going to podcast? The'big boys' and some smaller radio shows will broadcast, but the big boys aka art bell, glenn beck, rush are currently charging for their mp3 archive on their websites. Why are they going to offer what they have people paying for free? I wouldn't.

[Ian]

You are correct, volwrath. They are not going to stop charging. Therefore, they will never come to this site.

[Craig]

You are correct, volwrath. They are not going to stop charging. Therefore, they will never come to this site.
All they have to do is put out short, weekly promo podcasts for their pay content and bingo...they've got something they can list in PA. Why not?

Craig

[ferg]

As a non-podcaster semiregular semilurker, I don't necessarily think itunes is the endall beall to podcasting.

It's not that it's all there is...
It's that it (iTunes) is bigger than anything in podcasting to date, and substantially so.

...and it's not just the fact that iTunes is going to expose podcasting to its fairly large user base, it's going to make it EASY for all of those people to get podcasts...browse, search, subsribe.... The term "rss" doesn't even have to enter the equation.

For the record, I was a very late acceptor of iTunes, and there are some things that really drive me nuts about it (such as why, when i'm looking at a playlist, do i not have the abililty to completely delete a song from my library - it makes me insane), I do actually think it's pretty good.

[Ian]

Don't give them ideas, Craig. The AREN'T doing that, though. Syndicated host Doug Stephan gives out his first hour, but his show is not listed here. Surely he or his people are aware of this site, with all the coverage it gets.

Another reason they aren't doing it, is someone would have to be paid to produce it, and Premiere, being a Clear Channel subsidiary may decide it's not worth the effort or expenditure.

Even if they did, then they have to go motivate their listeners to go vote for the podcast.

Possible, but improbable.

[Craig]

Don't give them ideas, Craig.
Yeah, I considered that!

Craig

[JesusGeek]

might still be useful to track non-professional, non-commercial, made for fun podcasts, but the top 10 is going to be owned by the big boys, guaranteed.

Please explain to me why 'The Big Boys' are going to podcast? The'big boys' and some smaller radio shows will broadcast, but the big boys aka art bell, glenn beck, rush are currently charging for their mp3 archive on their websites. Why are they going to offer what they have people paying for free? I wouldn't.

i'd expect to see ad-packed free shows available from the likes of Rush, Jim Rome, Phil Hendrie, etc. Why miss the boat, when you can sell your content to even more advertisers and expand your audience worldwide?

And don't forget the big media companies... Disney is already in the fray (with an outstanding podcast by Michael Geoghegan, btw). I'd imagine that they could easily hire someone to do a weekly podcast on things going on in the resorts and movies that the millions of Disney fans across the world would subscribe to in a heartbeat.

I'm sure someone is working on a way to make a subscription-only rss feed. Who knows, stuff may even start getting encoded in iTunes AAC format with DRM and purchased with itunes accounts.

[Hittman]

That sounds like a workable business model. They could offer ad packed shows for free, add stripped shows for a fee. Maybe the freebees would only be half or a third of the show.

There's more than one way to make money giving away your content. I recently put Google Adwords on my site and have been pleased with the money it's generating, with very little effort on my part. Give away a free show, which would cost virtually nothing to produce (it's already done) and direct people to your web sites. Get hundreds of thousands of visitors and the ad revenue just from click troughs would be substantial.

And the producers would be able to charge advertisers more based on the number of people downloading their stuff.

[dcolanduno]

'd expect to see ad-packed free shows available from the likes of Rush, Jim Rome, Phil Hendrie, etc. Why miss the boat, when you can sell your content to even more advertisers and expand your audience worldwide?

You will, because the huge media guys, don't stay there because they are COMPLETELY daft when it comes to the media business.

I think it's a big leap for some folks to assume that the big-companies aren't going to just start jumping into this pool in a huge way.

I'm not one for the sit around and wait approach. I contend that Ferf and folks that run these popular sites are in a unique position to push some new talent, and types of content in front of a large audience. If they want to.

And that is what this boils down to, we don't often get chances, as small, indipendant folks to really get in front of a huge audience they way we are going to in the next year. It really does depend on, as a community, what we decide to do.

Do we take some small actions now that could give us a chance to beat the traditional game the old-hat gatekeepers of media have been playing. Or, do we just roll over and let them use their vast resources to use our current setup and rules for their benefit, and their benefit alone.

Seriously, that is what this is about.

And, I don't, and won't buy into that whole 'free market' crap about being 'scared' and such. I see OPPORTUNITY here, and that is far different from being nervous, it is KNOWING when to grab a chance and take it.

All those big media companies put rules in place to benefit THEM at the beginnings of all their roots, so why shouldn't we?

Being 'better' than them in some weird useless esoteric way, only buys you obscurity in the long run, and no one will ever look upon the lost opportunity as anything but foolish.

No, we might not make as big of a dent as we hope... But we can sure give it a shot. And doing' NOTHING buys you nothing, it always has, and always will.

[Ian]

Creating a new top ten for "pros" will only draw more attention to the "pros" that don't deserve it. I ask again, who the hell will be on that list?

1. Free Talk Live
2. Rachael Maddow
3. Al Franken (with 30 votes in 6 months)
4. ???
5. ??
6?

[volwrath]

'd expect to see ad-packed free shows available from the likes of Rush, Jim Rome, Phil Hendrie, etc. Why miss the boat, when you can sell your content to even more advertisers and expand your audience worldwide?

You will, because the huge media guys, don't stay there because they are COMPLETELY daft when it comes to the media business.

I think it's a big leap for some folks to assume that the big-companies aren't going to just start jumping into this pool in a huge way.


I am not saying that no big media is going to appear, but if you think Rush is going to ad-pack his shows as a podcast I think you are absolutely wrong. Not only is he cutting his paying base down to zero, but how hard is it to skip ads on a mp3 player?!? I guess they will lock down my FF button. It makes no sense. Remember all the hype that came with VRML? There will be some changes in the future with iTunes support, and the Sirius stuff, but personally I am just a little SKEPTICAL :P

j/k I had to use that line

Also I do think some changes are in order, and I look forward to seeing what is come up with.

[volwrath]

Creating a new top ten for "pros" will only draw more attention to the "pros" that don't deserve it. I ask again, who the hell will be on that list?

1. Free Talk Live
2. Rachael Maddow
3. Al Franken (with 30 votes in 6 months)
4. ???
5. ??
6?

NPR maybe but at least the Libertarian is on top

[Hittman]

You really need to learn to look at the future. Which, in this business means six months from now.

I don't think anyone is upset about the way things are now. They work fine, and if a couple of commercial radio spots hit the list, ho hum what's for dinner. But six months to a year from now, if nothing is done to prepare for it, the only thing in the top 25, hell, the top 100, is going to be commercial radio. Podcasting won't be podcasting any more, it will be ClearChannels Tivo. The independence and creativity of the little guys will be buried so deep in the list few people will find it. And lots of people, new to podcasting, will visit, see that there's nothing here they can't get on the radio, and shrug off the whole thing as not being worth their trouble.

OTOH, if radiocasts are in one list, and truly independent podcasts are in another, then podcasting still stays something special.

We are facing a choice. Do we want podcasting to be:

Radio Tivo, featuring the voices of everyone who already has a massive audience, almost exclusively,

- or –

Podcasting, with both Radio Tivo and independent podcasters prominently displayed?

Derrick's suggestions, if implemented, would put you in the podcasters column anyway.

You seem panic-stricken by this idea. What are you afraid of?

[Ian]

Ahh, but will NPR be considered "commercial" because they are not for profit? Will we need a separate "pro" but not "commercial" category?

Will removing 2 shows from the top 20 and putting them in their own category really make everyone feel better about not being in the top ten?

There are well over 3,000 podcasts listed on this site. 99% of them are not in the top ten, and they won't be after any segregation. Then the complainers will still be going on about how it's unfair, and we should eliminate all competition entirely, because it's "hurting the community".

Just. Stop.

PCA is the best podcast site, hands down. The media comes here, and the top ten shows, most of which are there legitimately through hard work, are rewarded with attention. The attention benefits the site as a whole, and so everyone gains as a result.

The system works well, as evidenced by the controversy generated. It's not perfect, but the Ferf is getting there. It is impossible to implement all suggestions. Impossible to make everyone happy. He should do what he feels is right for the site, and if some people don't like it, they can go pound sand, or start their own site.

[Ian]

You seem panic-stricken by this idea. What are you afraid of?

It is you that seems panic-stricken by the idea of Clear Channel coming here and ending the fun.

You're speculating from a standpoint of paranoia.

There is very little money to be made here. If anyone is turning a profit from their show, please share how well you're doing so I can eat these words, and congratulate you.

Traditional broadcasters are all about making money. If they don't smell anything, they are going to STAY AWAY. I've given evidence in other posts that Clear Channel IS podcasting, and STAYING AWAY.

They are not going to rake in extra income by aborting their subscription programs, and giving away their archives.

They are using podcasting to enhance the features of their FOR-PAY subscriber packages, that's all. They're promoting it, because it's a buzzword right now, but they are clearly not competing with the rest of us.

Free Talk Live has been podcasting for 6 months now. Where are all the radio shows? It's not rocket science. What's holding them back? What hosts are going to come here and dominate? It's not going to be Clear Channel people, that's for sure.

[dcolanduno]

It is you that seems panic-stricken by the idea of Clear Channel coming here and ending the fun.

Yup, and what is wrong with that? Seriously? Why SHOULDNT we want to keep the voice of podcasting alive?

You're speculating from a standpoint of paranoia.

I'd stop saying that, it is a terrible arguement. Anyone that has any sense of the real world and history realizes that there is SIGNIFICANT evidence that big-media has always tried its ****dest to squash indy voices wherever they rise.

It is speculation...

ALL smart business people speculate. It is how the Stock Market works, how marketing works, how people build business.

Yea, we are speculating. And the ones that think big-media is going to try its darn-best to jump in the game are the ones any sane investor would gamble on.

They are not going to rake in extra income by aborting their subscription programs, and giving away their archives.

It is simple minded to believe that 'archiving' is the only way the big guys could ravage podcasting. Seriously, I can think of about 10 ways I would leverage podcasting if I was Clear Channel right now, none of which are 'for pay'.

Free Talk Live has been podcasting for 6 months now. Where are all the radio shows? It's not rocket science. What's holding them back? What hosts are going to come here and dominate? It's not going to be Clear Channel people, that's for sure.

Have you ever been an executive at a big company? Ever see how 'slow' things move at that level. It can take more than a year to steer a boat that big. But, once the sucker is on course, it has been proven to be almost unstoppable.

It took those Titanic bastards a really long time to wheel around to the internet. And when they did... they dominate more than 85-90% of it.

Look at how they are trying to un-root BLOGS right now. For gods sake, they are trying to get laws passed about the type of content that can be put in blogs LEGALLY during certain election cycles ... and friggin' laws about how you can 'use the news' and present facts and opinons without credentials!

Come on, you can't possibly believe that it is 'paranoid' to KNOW that big-media has been known to go on a warpath. I really have to say, it is one of the weakest arguements against making small, sensible changes.

[Ian]

Yup, and what is wrong with that? Seriously? Why SHOULDNT we want to keep the voice of podcasting alive?
Dude, I love podcasting. It's a key element of my show. I support the "community" more than most shows. We talk about podcasting, and frequently Podcast Alley specifically, on a popular form of media, 6 nights per week.

I'd stop saying that, it is a terrible arguement. Anyone that has any sense of the real world and history realizes that there is SIGNIFICANT evidence that big-media has always tried its ****dest to squash indy voices wherever they rise.
Fine, here's another arguement:

Big Media may try, but the harder they squeeze, the more slips through their fingers. There have always been independent voices, and always will be. In this information age, more people are discovering those voices. If you think Big Media can quash an internet based movement like podcasting, you're a poor student of the net. The internet is setting us free.

The old-world models are crumbling, surely you must agree with that, Derek.

It is simple minded to believe that 'archiving' is the only way the big guys could ravage podcasting. Seriously, I can think of about 10 ways I would leverage podcasting if I was Clear Channel right now, none of which are 'for pay'.
Maybe they should hire you back as a consultant! :lol:

Have you ever been an executive at a big company? Ever see how 'slow' things move at that level. It can take more than a year to steer a boat that big. But, once the sucker is on course, it has been proven to be almost unstoppable.
Speculation. The internet is the great equalizer.

It took those Titanic bastards a really long time to wheel around to the internet. And when they did... they dominate more than 85-90% of it.
I must say I'm lost. Clear Channel dominates 90% of the net??

Look at how they are trying to un-root BLOGS right now. For gods sake, they are trying to get laws passed about the type of content that can be put in blogs LEGALLY during certain election cycles ... and friggin' laws about how you can 'use the news' and present facts and opinons without credentials!
What you're talking about is horrible. The FEC is doing this, not communications companies. You can claim that they are behind it, but that's just conspiracy stuff.

People need to stop complaining, and stand up for their freedom. Refuse to bow down to the FEC, refuse to bow down to Big Media. If people just keep doing what they are told, they will deserve what they get.

Come on, you can't possibly believe that it is 'paranoid' to KNOW that big-media has been known to go on a warpath. I really have to say, it is one of the weakest arguements against making small, sensible changes.
As the information age moves on, the establishment weakens. We shall have our victory, and live in Liberty. Or we'll die fighting for it.

Whether the rest of you have the courage to keep fighting, is up to you.

[kickasspodcast]

Why do I get the feeling that alot of people will be having this same conversation 6 months from now on the itunes forums -(I dont even know if there are itunes forums...)-. We all know itunes is supposed to be the next big dealy-do in podcast directories. So do you think THEY will have some kind of voting system? Probably so...and I bet people, even myself, will take objection to some parts of the system.

I am however less concerned about seperate rankings than I am about honest classification. It is ok to call it like it is and still give it all the respect that it(Radio Podcasting)deserves.

I do strongly agree that any kinda Commercialcast/MLM/SCAMCast programs should be strictly booted from this kind of public listing. I do not know how many podcasts are on podcast alley but Itunes has about 8000 and they will surely be smart enough to use amature vs. pro classifications when they catagorize.

People who are immature get defensive and reactionary instead of being proud of their strenghts. I think as podcasting continues to explode it will be interesting the dispersion of all of us whereas now we podcasters can be found in one of 3 or 4 places.

As far as outside media focusing on "Top 10" that is no different then the focus on britney spears and the backstreet boys...we all know what kind of quality is on our music and tv AND movie Top 10 lists. So it is kinda funny people work so hard to be part of the "pop" top 10-25 podcasts that will eventually (i believe) given no real respect by everyone who is in the 'know'. Much like true music lovers and film buff's rarely listen to Chingy while watching Madagascar. So be careful what you ask for, you just might get it.

Jack B.

[radioclash]

Well as long as people can find me on Google, I'll have an audience. And most of the interest has been word of mouth (and there has been press, oh yes, just not really mentioned it here as it's in the US and waiting to see it first before I crow about it!)

But what bothers me is what I'm calling Podfreeze - the PCA chart, media, big money and Podshow et al seem to be having a freezing effect on other casts...I can't say for sure but I feel it too - the "I'm not in the rankings, got spots ont he BBC/CNN, big audience etc, etc. so I may as well stop" - or more obliquely, "it's all become about money so I'll stop before what i love is changed/destroyed"...the pressure to 'monetize' and advertise and promote is squeezing out smaller indie casts, I can feel it.

And no bigger is NOT better - I thought we learned that with radio and large corporates?

It's sad because I'm hearing some great casts, good examples of audio blogging (not shows or radio, personal takes than MEAN something to me, stuff I cannot hear on the radio) from those still going - Lucky Bitch; Bicyclemark; Yeast; Feast of Fools....but I feel sad for those who seem to have fallen by the wayside (about half of my list seem to have stopped - I won't name names because they might just be taking a rest but scarily Whole Wheat stopped entirely from doing their daily rants...did anyone here even notice?)

It's not all doom and gloom - I just want space for everyone, and i think the voting and press and the attention the top shows get can kill little shows, because people are made to feel (wrongly) that if it isn't a massive success that they should stop or it's worthless - it's a wider issue and it's not the top 10 shows fault - it's the fault of the spoon-fed media monoculture that just wants to report the same news and same stuff again and again, rather than getting new angles and new content...and the 'success' culture where Van Gogh would have given up after a month and become a plumber because he wasn't on the news. :-(

Sorry I'm ranting - but I do feel this is a revolution but the revolution is not repeating what's on your radio; it's repeating what's on your mind.

[Ian]

You're also an admitted socialist.

"money is evil"..."make everyone equal"..."from each according to his ability"...

“Political power grows from the barrel of a gun.�
-Mao Tse Tung

Is Mao a hero of yours, radioclash?

[kickasspodcast]

You're also an admitted socialist.

"money is evil"..."make everyone equal"..."from each according to his ability"...

“Political power grows from the barrel of a gun.�
-Mao Tse Tung

Is Mao a hero of yours, radioclash?

IAN- Shame on you! for so blatently attacking this guy. You of all people should know he has the right to believe any darn thing he wants and not have people messing with him about it. Can't you just keep it to the topic without having to get personal all the time, that is uncalled for and merits admonishent!

Jack B.

[Charles]

You're also an admitted socialist.
"money is evil"..."make everyone equal"..."from each according to his ability"...
“Political power grows from the barrel of a gun.�
-Mao Tse Tung
Is Mao a hero of yours, radioclash?


Jeez Ian

That was really over the top. C'mon you don't have to emulate the very small few here that have seemed to be only into juvenile personal attacks. You are better than that.

I'm sure you have no basis to judge what Radioclash believes. Most people don't know and don't care what he does or does not believe.

Most people don't know and don't care if you think it is ok for Large Corporations to be able to get away with criminal behavior, exploit & not treat people like human beings, contribute huge sums of money to a very corrupt administration and steal literally billions by war profiteering.

Most people don't know and don't care if you believe that there shouldn't be government services or any government as in "screw the constitution, bill of rights & common good & common welfare"


We are all human beings that have inherent worth and dignity.


Maybe it would be a good idea to just stay with the topic at hand rather than get personal throwing insults at people.

[dcolanduno]

If you think Big Media can quash an internet based movement like podcasting, you're a poor student of the net. The internet is setting us free.

The old-world models are crumbling, surely you must agree with that, Derek.

Actually, big media has squashed sections of the internet quite easily. There are few ways to **** your head and look at it, but it has in several ways.

Yes, the 'old models' are crumbling, but I don't mind still leveraging their own hype to our advantage, and giving them a little push now and then. :)


Seriously, I can think of about 10 ways I would leverage podcasting if I was Clear Channel right now, none of which are 'for pay'.

Maybe they should hire you back as a consultant! :lol:


Funny enough, I am a consultant for a different company... but a far less 'oppressive' one, It's not a 'media' company. So, I kind of already do get paid for that, just not by Clear Channel. And, I'm not sure I'd work for them again... would you? ;)


Have you ever been an executive at a big company? Ever see how 'slow' things move at that level. It can take more than a year to steer a boat that big. But, once the sucker is on course, it has been proven to be almost unstoppable.

Speculation. The internet is the great equalizer.


I've said it was speculation, but ALL business and decisions made in the world are based on prediction and speculation. It has already been stated by several big companies, (Apple, Ford, FOX, etc, etc.) that 'podcasting is on their radar' in a big way. So, even though they aren't here now, and they aren't telling us their plans. It is easy to assume the types of actions they would take. Just sit in their shoes, and think about how cheap, and easy it is for them to make HUGE impacts none of us can do with 1000 times the work.

Even Jobs had a quote, I don't have access to right now, but it was to the effect of 'not believing in the reliability of small time media producers.'

Now, heck, when folks like that, the ones that SHOULD be supporting the podcasting community make casual comments that indicate their interests lie MORE in commercial big media than propping up the folks that created the buzz and REASON they are jumping in the game. Concerns me a little.

I just don't see that as a huge 'speculation' leap.


Look at how they are trying to un-root BLOGS right now. For gods sake, they are trying to get laws passed about the type of content that can be put in blogs LEGALLY during certain election cycles ...

What you're talking about is horrible. The FEC is doing this, not communications companies. You can claim that they are behind it, but that's just conspiracy stuff.

That's not conspiracy theory, or even close. It's a valid corrolation. No one would have an interest to do this other than big-media. The only threat the BLOGS had was their successful, time after time, attacks on the big media. They are threatened by folks that expose their bad practices.

I can't find it now, on vacation, but there *HAS* been clear connections when you follow the money and donations it leads to direct interest companies in the name of big media. It isn't hard to follow the money.

And even if you couldn't, and didn't know. It's not a conspiracy theory to make educated guesses, and valid assumptions when the truth is obfuscated. Because in either case, it is happening. :)

I still don't understand why it is bothersome to leverage the big medias own hype to our advantage. It is a rare opportunity, and all it can do is something positive, or... not effect anything. In either case, I don't see the downside of attempting to make a plan to leverage this chance and ride the wave a little ways.

[dcolanduno]

Deleting a duplicate...

Ahh, the wonders of bad wireless!

[Ian]

IAN- Shame on you! for so blatently attacking this guy. You of all people should know he has the right to believe any darn thing he wants and not have people messing with him about it. Can't you just keep it to the topic without having to get personal all the time, that is uncalled for and merits admonishent!

Jack B.

There was no attack there. He's an admitted socialist. I refrained from calling him a "control freak" admitted socialist! Oops.

[Ian]

Jeez Ian

That was really over the top. C'mon you don't have to emulate the very small few here that have seemed to be only into juvenile personal attacks. You are better than that.
Nothing wrong with calling someone what they've admitted to being.

I'm sure you have no basis to judge what Radioclash believes. Most people don't know and don't care what he does or does not believe.
Jumping to conclusions. As a matter of fact, Mr. Clash and I have had the opportunity to communicate before, and he is an admitted socialist. Surely he can correct me if I am misinformed.

Most people don't know and don't care if you think it is ok for Large Corporations to be able to get away with criminal behavior, exploit & not treat people like human beings, contribute huge sums of money to a very corrupt administration and steal literally billions by war profiteering.
You don't know me very well.

1. I'm against corporations, but not business.
2. I'm anti-war.

See, I'll correct you when you're wrong. Mr. Clash is free to correct me if I am wrong.

Most people don't know and don't care if you believe that there shouldn't be government services or any government as in "screw the constitution, bill of rights & common good & common welfare"
I'm all for the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Please don't confuse me with radioclash.


We are all human beings that have inherent worth and dignity.
Agreed, by default. Once you start pointing weapons at others to force them to behave in a certain way, you cease to have worth, or dignity, and deserve no respect.

Maybe it would be a good idea to just stay with the topic at hand rather than get personal throwing insults at people.
Just thought I'd clue in those who are new to Mr. Clash's political affiliations, that way people can just ignore his Socialist "equality" ramblings.

With a name like Clash, he's gotta expect some conflict. :lol:

[kickasspodcast]

Don't you guys get it? Either you have a radio show that you cut up and podcast. OR you you create a podcast especially for the sake of creating a podcast. You relegate podcasting to a side affect of editing.

You can go on and on and on but people know there is a clear difference between Radio Podcasters and Podcasters. What is it with politcal talk show hosts talking to people like they are children.

The only reason you are going on and on about it is because you are actually ranked on PCA (which means nothing) because PCA has less than 1/2 of all podcasters even listed in their directories. And you can go to 100 other ranking sites and you basically get 100 different top 10's.

Ian you have to continually attack people personally, you have attacked me and other people just for their beliefs. Not everyone needs to do that. Alot of people can just discuss or argue the actual points and not have to continually treat people disrespectful or tear them apart personally. People who live in glass houses....

You can go on and on but you will never silence or duplicate the indie pulse that beats within the community of podcastering. Not your little government regulated regional politcial radio call-in show. None of that describes podcasting at all.

And plz stop telling people "they are jealous" of your "success". 1: nobody but you has asserted that you are successful, and 2: it makes you sound like some hag on the Jerry Springer show (yet another show with unlimited free archives-all of AAR is)

And would you be so objecting of Regional Ratings? Best from the Netherlands? Best from New England? Best from Midwest? Best from West Coast?

Someone will give it a try and if/when it works it will then become the knew way to go. People will want to rate the best podcast from their home state or provence. I hope you don't threaten those people also and personally attack their politics just because they may find it interesting to subdivide and rank.

Jack B.

[Ian]

I love how you just read whatever meanings you want into what I write. I never said you were jealous, nor did I claim much success. I've written before that I'm in debt. :roll:

[radioclash]

yes I have self-confessed socialist leanings - but I think what people where poiting out Ian is that you use these labels to tick a box and say 'ignore him he's a socialist'.

Thing is, the recividist view and argument (and yes it is childish, politically and intellectually) is to say 'oh you believe in X so you must believe in Y' - no, I don't believe in everything Marxists believe, but I have enough in common to say I have marxist leanings. But I'm not a fully paid up member.

I could say same about libertarianism but initially you denied that you or your show was libertarian - even to the point of taking your old slogan off. Are you a fully paid up Libertarian then?

Mao is not a socialist - that's communism, Mao-Leninism to be exact. It was specific to the actualities of China and was based on Lenin's teachings, not Marx. Go check it out on wikipedia. So it's a bit blind to say I have those beliefs when a follower of Marx gets warped by Mao for his own cult of personality. Similarly Stalin or later communism - it obviously was different to what Lenin and Marx intended. But people blame all that onto those who came before and were dead then.

Very odd - I don't blame Adam Smith and Keynes for libertarianism, Margaret Thatcher and right-wing economic policy? Maybe I should...

That's like saying David Koresh was an Xtian so of course all Xtians must believe or support what David did. Silly.

Ultimately Ian you just troll this board for arguments...sad that you have nothing better to do - no-one wins in arguments on the Net, especially political ones.

[kickasspodcast]

I love how you just read whatever meanings you want into what I write. I never said you were jealous, nor did I claim much success. I've written before that I'm in debt. :roll:


You make it WAY too easy for me.


The Best of what IAN SAID:

"Please stop attacking people like me just because we've been doing this longer than you..... It's a long, hard road to success. "

"You mean, as a radio show, we actually have to break for commercials? Imagine that!"

"Anyone who's been in radio for a little while knows that frequency is key. Sorry, but to get retention from listeners, information must be repeated. "

"But I AM the scene."

"The Bill of Rights has only served to delay the tyranny a little while."

"Funny, I view Air America as pathetic. Like Rush, but on the left."

"A constitutional convention? Sounds like too much bureaucracy. I probably wouldn't have been near it."

"Now, it's a challenge to be #1. If we were under your system, we'd easily be #1."

"We're all doing shows. How and where is immaterial."

"There are some people in the world that are not angered by and jealous of the success of others. You are clearly not one of them."

"What show on the top ten is bigger than FTL?"



jack b.

[Ian]

One thing I appreciate about you is your dedication, KAP. Relative success. Relative to most shows, but not the truly successful. It's a sliding scale. 8)