Welcome to the New World Order

[ferg]

This week in Tech in its first week blows everyone out of the water.
Rachel Maddow #3 with a bullet in just one day. Certainly on her way to number 2 or, possibly number 1.

The reality of professional, commercial podcasts "encroaching" is in full effect. Get used to it.

The good news?
Plenty, actually.

First and foremost, more people will be at this site, into podcasting and looking for podcasts.

Also, those of us that are podcast-only shows can stop worrying about jockeying for position, because we don't stand a chance. We can stop begging for votes, stop checking our standing every five minutes and START figuring out how to make our shows stand out so that the listeners the commercial shows bring in will want to listen to us.

In a way, it brings me down. The "grass roots" podcasting movement is/was something special, and it's changing...fast. Ah well, we knew it was coming.

[mental-escher]

Great news... quality over quantity.

Rachel has a super show, no commercials, and it will help bring 'casting in to the limelight in a positive (read- draw more people to the medium) way.

Is Howard Stern next...?

[jeffoest]

Most new "technologies" start with this HUGE expectation bubble - expectations are set so high that can never be fulfilled. But ultimately that new technology provides more value than what was there before.

Ferg, there will always be a market for the stuff that we do. Well... market implies a commerical model - lets stick with the term audience for now.

I don't know if many 'amateur' podcasts will really get numbers at the level of 100,000 + listeners. But I really don't think that's ever been really on the table - perhaps others would disagress - but that's the way I feel about it. There are/will be a small handful that will generate those numbers against the more professional 'radio' podcasts but certainly not the majority.

I look at the amateur podcast movement as something very much in parallel to the blog movement and I believe in the 'long tail' theory. People do blogs because they love to get heard - some generate audiences for their families and friends only, some get better coverage.

The radio jocks in Dallas that I listen to (mostly the sports talk guys) make less money that I do in my day job. I just never had an expectation that I would make money on delivering content or as a 'jock'. Just as in blogs, there is money to be made for the technology enablers - not as much for the amateur content providers.

I guess what I'm saying is is that I feel it's just a matter of expectations. We now have an audience that is larger than I ever thought we would. Ever. Again, maybe my expectations are low - but I feel 'compensated' in that and the feedback and the friends we have made so far on this journey.

I like your show Ferg - and I believe there is value in that....

What people seem to forget in this post is the remaining shows in the top ten. A majority of them are still part of the grassroots movement. Regular radio shows offer the audience and professional sound but grassroots shows offer something you can't find on regular radio, people being honest about themselves and the world around them. I haven't listened to the regular morning show here in months. I got tired of the shameless plugs, the constant commercials and the fake personality. So now I listen to real people, having fun doing something they love and I'll take that over a fake personality any day.

[ferg]

Ferg, there will always be a market for the stuff that we do. Well... market implies a commerical model - lets stick with the term audience for now.


Jeff, I totally agree. I'm not afraid fo dissappearing here. But I'm already feeling a bit nostaligic about the days when there were *only* homegrown podcasts


I don't know if many 'amateur' podcasts will really get numbers at the level of 100,000 + listeners. But I really don't think that's ever been really on the table - perhaps others would disagress - but that's the way I feel about it. There are/will be a small handful that will generate those numbers against the more professional 'radio' podcasts but certainly not the majority.


All I ever wanted was enough listeners to provide me with feedback when I ask for it, and to feed the show that way. I take that back. I WAN 1,000,000 listeners, but all it takes to keep me going is a decent handful, like we have now.


The radio jocks in Dallas that I listen to (mostly the sports talk guys) make less money that I do in my day job. I just never had an expectation that I would make money on delivering content or as a 'jock'. Just as in blogs, there is money to be made for the technology enablers - not as much for the amateur content providers.


I have a similar situation here. The notion of actually being able to support myself doing podcasting is a virtual impossibility. Also, not having the *pressure* to produce cash keeps it more real (i think).


I like your show Ferg - and I believe there is value in that....

Likewise and Thanks, and that's why I keep doing it. Not just for you, but for anyone who wants to listen that has no real motivation to do so, other than that they simply want to.

I should clarify my initial point. I'm not saying any of what's happening is necessarily bad, but this month makes a very real statement about what professionals with built-in audiences will do to the rankings. It's a good thing in a number of ways, but it is a noticable change. That's all I was saying.

[ferg]

What people seem to forget in this post is the remaining shows in the top ten. A majority of them are still part of the grassroots movement.

For now. Check back in 6 months.

Regular radio shows offer the audience and professional sound but grassroots shows offer something you can't find on regular radio, people being honest about themselves and the world around them. I haven't listened to the regular morning show here in months. I got tired of the shameless plugs, the constant commercials and the fake personality. So now I listen to real people, having fun doing something they love and I'll take that over a fake personality any day.

I agree, and I think that's why most of us are here. The largest point of my post was to point out that squabbling over rankings and such is foolish, because everyone doing it (that I've seen) will be much more difficult to find on the "charts" around here in a few months - which is why we should focus on our show's content and word-of-mouth growth.

As for the shameless plugs - if I had a dime for every podcast that asked for votes, well, I dunno. I might have a couple of bucks. I've done it. Many of us have, but is that any less shameless than what the radio jocks do? I dunno - I'm asking.

I love this site (PCA), but it's popularity has turned peoples focus so strongly toward votes, and I'm not sure that's a good thing.

I don't think trying to get people to vote for your show is anywhere near the same level as a DJ who talks about a product or company solely because they are being paid to talk about it. The vote system is just yet another way to promote the show. The higher your total is, the higher you are in the rankings and the better chance you have to be discovered by new listeners.

There may come a day when you see nothing on the top 10 but radio shows moved over to podcasting but I seriously doubt that's the end of podcasting as we know it. Corporations have a great way of ruining a good thing and it won't be long before they get stupid and do the same stuff they do on air, just move the formula to podcasting. People will get tired of the ads, or the same music over and over and they'll go to the reliable, listener friendly homegrown podcasts.

[mental-escher]

Corporations have a great way of ruining a good thing and it won't be long before they get stupid and do the same stuff they do on air, just move the formula to podcasting. People will get tired of the ads, or the same music over and over and they'll go to the reliable, listener friendly homegrown podcasts.

That's why "podcasting" will likely remain just that- an ameteur island of intimate communication. Podcasting takes the sludge out of "radio", but sadly is still the relm of the elite- you gotta have a high speed internet connection to really use podcasting as a consistant and convenient alternate media.

Makes you wonder if the pathetic lack of broadband in this country is a result of traditional media/government suppression of broadband - keeping the masses zombied to commercial radio/tv (the bane of the civilized world).

Podcasting will set us free, at least when "we" can have ready access to it.

[Michael B]

This week in Tech in its first week blows everyone out of the water.
Rachel Maddow #3 with a bullet in just one day. Certainly on her way to number 2 or, possibly number 1.

The reality of professional, commercial podcasts "encroaching" is in full effect. Get used to it.

The good news?
Plenty, actually.

First and foremost, more people will be at this site, into podcasting and looking for podcasts.

Also, those of us that are podcast-only shows can stop worrying about jockeying for position, because we don't stand a chance. We can stop begging for votes, stop checking our standing every five minutes and START figuring out how to make our shows stand out so that the listeners the commercial shows bring in will want to listen to us.

In a way, it brings me down. The "grass roots" podcasting movement is/was something special, and it's changing...fast. Ah well, we knew it was coming.

Well said Ferg. Well said.

For those who love the basement cast and the endless calls for votes and shout-outs to others who do the same - start your own site. Sorry your clubhouse went condo, but the man running it sold out to The Man. Otherwise he'd disqualify all the votes of people the message board didn't teach the secret handshake to, right? Boycott everything that large amounts of people listen to because they weren't here first!

I look forward to seeing who amongst you will be able to capitalize on the increased exposure. I can't wait to order a Bob Packett Happy History Meal and see Tim and Tony on Letterman.

[Dave]

Ferg, there will always be a market for the stuff that we do. Well... market implies a commerical model - lets stick with the term audience for now.


Jeff, I totally agree. I'm not afraid of dissappearing here. But I'm already feeling a bit nostaligic about the days when there were *only* homegrown podcasts.

You're nostalgic for February? :|

I'm not saying any of what's happening is necessarily bad, but this month makes a very real statement about what professionals with built-in audiences will do to the rankings. It's a good thing in a number of ways, but it is a noticable change. That's all I was saying.

I think it may still be a little too early to determine what professionals are doing to the rankings here. We only have a handful of "pro" podcasts -- This Week in Tech and the Air America shows are all I can think of -- amidst a sea of homebrew shows. We may not get too many more until iTunes' podcatching capabilities go live.

Personally, I hope a few more pros do step into the podcasting realm. It will push the rest of us to step our games up a little.

-Dave, hoping ESPN's podcasting strategy will be better than its blogging strategy (http://gigaom.com/2005/05/16/espns-really-dumb-blog-strategy/).

[Famous Mortimer]

I'm surprised it's lasted this long, really. Compare it to any other branch of the mass media, at least podcasting has started off in the right tradition of free speech and no adverts.

So people are going to come here looking for something new and interesting when they've already listened to the "mainstream" ones that will inevitably come (capitalists will go anywhere looking for a place to make money). Like when I was younger I liked mainstream music, books and films, but since I've expanded my horizons and love all sorts of underground and experimental stuff.

Just like in mainstream radio, there's places like WFMU and Resonance FM that produce amazing things every day, there'll still be great podcasts to find outside of all the radio pros who'll move into the field. I never had any great expectations in the first place that podcasting would escape commercialism, but there's no demand on us to listen to the commercial stuff.

[bpende]

I can't say that I'm in any way shocked that the Corporate Media has finally found its way to distributing their programming via this new method. The only thing we can all do is to continue doing what we are now, for now.

I think that ultimately, we're doing the old style of content, just with a new distribution methodology. That content, though, is a representation of our passion. I think that continuing to keep our PodCasts true to our passion will keep PodCasting interesting.

I'd recommend that we keep:
- our content fresh
- listening to independent PodCasters
- referring people to our favourite PodCasts

I think we need to admit that:
- there is the occasional, high quality content that you will want from Corporate Media
- you may have to refer people to other independent PodCasts before yours
- people will always try to make a buck off anything interesting
- some people don't want to make a buck off their passion
- both sides need to take a step back and chill

I'd like to throw out a topic (I just checked and didn't see this exact verbiage).

Should we break out PodCasts by producer?

Should we be able to see that DnD produced a PodCast... or that NBC produced one... or that this one has no producer, and is therefore independent.

Maybe by tagging PodCasts with producer labels, we can maintain our independent production status.

[xtffx]

Narf.

I for one have heard of her and love her show. It's a great show and she is a host who really knows her stuff. Perhaps you should check it out.

[ferg]

I will definitely check it out...and, make no mistake...I'm not bashing her in any way...some "commercial" podcasters will succeed BECAUSE they are better, no doubt. I was just commenting on how easy it is for radio personalities who already have an audience to "take over" in the voting.

Heck, I've never heard of Rachel Maddow....imagine what a semi-household-name would do?

[ferg]

Err....BitTorrent.
No Thanks (for now)

[Will-Casel]

Err....BitTorrent.
No Thanks (for now)

Yeah, I was going to subscribe for a couple of shows, too, but oh well.

I just don't want to install more stuff I my system for just one show...

Will-Casel

If you have Ipodder, you won't notice a difference. It downloads it no problem. You can also directly download it on AirAmericaPlace.com

Of all the shows on Air America, her show is the one I listen to consistently. In 35 minutes, you get the news and the info you need for the day. No chit chat, just in and out talk radio.

[Famous Mortimer]

This week in Tech in its first week blows everyone out of the water.
Rachel Maddow #3 with a bullet in just one day. Certainly on her way to number 2 or, possibly number 1.

I'd never heard of her. I Googled her, and learned she hosted a morning show on Air America. Which means no one else has ever heard of her, either. :)

Which is why she's just hit no.2 and you're...? I think she's great, a good show with no commercials and an excellent political slant.

[xtffx]

Narf.

[ferg]

Which is why she's just hit no.2 and you're...? I think she's great, a good show with no commercials and an excellent political slant.


I didn't say that.
Your quote tags are out of whack.

[trueisnotfalse]

Err....BitTorrent.
No Thanks (for now)

I agree 100% Ferg. For now it's just too much of a pain. Maybe once the files are everywhere and shared more it will get better.

[Famous Mortimer]

Ms. Maddow is, of course, on a massive radio network with millions of listeners and super huge ratings Howard Stern would envy! Not to mention the fact that I've been bragging about how awesome my own show is all over the place. You know, the show I update maybe once a year. Boy, you sure showed me! Gosh, I'm sorry I said anything about the great Rachel Maddow - who every American knows of and listens to. Forgive me.

On a serious note, I checked out her show today and enjoyed it. Hopefully podcasting will help her to find a larger audience.

Or to paraphrase: "boo hoo". Before her podcast started, I only knew her name from reading about Al Franken and Janeane Garofalo on Air America. Your attempt as sarcasm is so all over the place I can't tell what you're getting at- people are surprised at "professional" shows getting big ratings at Podcast Alley, but then in the next breath pretty much everyone is saying they'd never heard of her. Which one is it? Is she the thin end of a corporate wedge or is she just someone with a very good show on a network like Air America, which isn't exactly Clear Channel?

[sydbarrett]

just saw this in the back waters of podcast alley forum

illuminati stuff

awesome...

p.s. did not read the thread
just love the title dude
that's my 2 cents


...we are racing towards an apocalypse of our own creation

have a nice day

[obtuseangle]

Getting back to the original topic, I think pro and amateur podcasts can peacefully co-exist. What worries me is a scenario where some corporate entity comes along and wants to structure the thing like cable TV. In other words, they take the PCA top 50 and bundle them together into a subscription package that costs $XX per month or whatever. Granted, I only listen to a couple shows in the top 50 (Air Ferg being one of them), but I really like those shows, so I'd probably fork over the money, assuming it was reasonable.

Well, maybe someone can help me out here, because, as usual, I've been thrown clear of my own logical train of thought ... I was thinking it would be bad to be outside that top 50, but now I'm not so sure ... is that even a viable model?

The other thing that bums me out is that everyone is getting so snobby about sound quality. I record a lot of my stuff on a handheld recorder using the built-in mic, because of the freedom and spontaneity it allows, and I never thought it sounded that bad. But I'm becoming more and more self-conscious about it because of all these fancy-schmancy shows with their fancy-schmancy equipment.

Boo hoo.

Steve
The Obtuse Angle

[jeffoest]

The other thing that bums me out is that everyone is getting so snobby about sound quality. I record a lot of my stuff on a handheld recorder using the built-in mic, because of the freedom and spontaneity it allows, and I never thought it sounded that bad. But I'm becoming more and more self-conscious about it because of all these fancy-schmancy shows with their fancy-schmancy equipment.

Steve - "everyone"? LOL - Rest easy. If you look at the Podcast Alley members (as an example), a little analysis will show that about 66% of the messages in this forum are generated by 3.2% of all the members in this forum. Even accounting for some dropoffs, the point is that most people belong to the silent majority of readers but not frequent posters.

Rest easy. Do YOUR thing. These people - the vocal ones (including myself) don't represent or form any kind of consensus. We just talk a lot.

Good luck!

[obtuseangle]

Thanks Jeff. You're a very quantitative person and I respect that ... I guess I just don't ever want to be considered the public access channel on the podcast dial, becuase more people will be prone to clicking by without giving it a chance. Although, seeing as though I'm number five bazillion on the PCA charts, I have a feeling the casual passers-by aren't going to find my show in the first place.

So whatever.

I'm going to keep doing my thang the only way I know how to do it.

Like a ****ed fool.

Steve
The Obtuse Angle