Dawn and Drew not all that good [Archive]

Famous Mortimer

May 10th, 2005, 06:24 AM

fauxlover

May 10th, 2005, 07:39 AM

As I understand it, A story was being done by some major newspaper a little while back, before podcasting had received even the attention it's getting now. At the time, D&D were well up on the chart of popular shows, as they'd been doing thiers consistently and had drawn a certain crowd.

Again, this is how it was related to me- They were interviewed and or referenced in the story, and it was then picked up by USA Today, and propegated through world news outlets. Voila, D&D are the first ambassadors of podcasting.

I think the show is fine, but as you say, I only listened to them recently, and only once, and I was underwhelmed. Nothing critical against them, just different tastes for different folks.

I like "Unemployment Line," but even with the shows you mention here, if you want to hear some edgey stuff, I found a show called "The Real Happy Hour" that has me hooked. I think it's the funniest thing I've found on any directory so far.

allthewhile

May 10th, 2005, 07:42 AM

http://www.creakyjoints.com/graphics/images/desktops/beatingadeadhorse_400x300.jpg

Famous Mortimer

May 10th, 2005, 07:50 AM

You can very clearly see I'm new here, so why post a flogging a dead horse pic? Contribute please- you're doing the patient stereotype of your religion no favours whatsoever.

dcolanduno

May 10th, 2005, 10:02 AM

Good is relative, I think D&D are a great show to a lot of people. And that's, well, great for them. (One of the best things about podcasting)

Now, as for thier sudden rise into a 'production' company, or thier capability beyond silly ranting and light entertainment. That could be a whole different commentary.

I think the dead horse is because, this always leads to a debate about how crappy all the ranking and voting systems work, on P'Cast Alley, and others. We all know they are broken... and based on current listenership willingness to vote, and the more listeners, the more votes, which makes it hard for someone new to get out there and be promoted at the level of the 'old timers'.

Someone recently, Dave Miller, on Craigs behind the scenes podcast talked a lot about the content of podcasting, you should tune into that.

allthewhile

May 10th, 2005, 10:07 AM

You can very clearly see I'm new here, so why post a flogging a dead horse pic? Contribute please- you're doing the patient stereotype of your religion no favours whatsoever.

I posted the pic because this topic has been covered ad nauseum in other threads. It was meant to be slightly humorous, not a personal attack.

Welcome to the forums.

Ian

May 10th, 2005, 10:21 AM

did they do something "shocking" early on that's caused loads of people to tune in?

Apparantly, early in their podcasting career they faked having sex on the air. Whoopee!

Some people really like their show, apparantly. If they can make money off of them, more power to em.

johnandwayneshow

May 10th, 2005, 10:24 AM

D&D is exactly why we started doing our show again. Not just because we thought "hey, this is something we can be successful with too" but mostly of a "hey, this isn't too funny and is pretty overrated, a blind monkey could do this."

And every time I hear D&D on these boards all I think about is a group of dorks sitting around playing Dungeons and Dragons.

dcolanduno

May 10th, 2005, 10:30 AM

JuliusMarx

May 10th, 2005, 10:38 AM

I found a show called "The Real Happy Hour" that has me hooked. I think it's the funniest thing I've found on any directory so far.

Dude! I thought I was the only one. These guys are hillarious. The production and skits are great, (kind of a theater of the mind thing), I am totally hooked on this show!

Check them out.

Groucho

ferg

May 10th, 2005, 10:48 AM

The interesting sidenote has to be that they don't come here and participate anymore in the community.

They seem to just hang out on thier own forum, and continue to get new listeners from being in the top 3-4 here each month. Kind of disheartening in a way, from a 'like them' standpoint.

Well, here's the thing...when you've been on top as long as they have, no one comes on this forum saying, "Hey, I found this great podcast called Dawn and Drew" because everyone knows about them. However, you do get frequent posts by people saying "They're not that good", or "The votes are rigged", and what's really the benefit of coming on here trying to defend themselves? They'd just come across as defensive.

They have a big audience who interacts with them directly on their site, and they have the best "ad" on Podcast alley which is being near the top every month. What should motivate them to come here? They interact with their listeners via their site, so why come here to do it?

dcolanduno

May 10th, 2005, 11:14 AM

They have a big audience who interacts with them directly on their site, and they have the best "ad" on Podcast alley which is being near the top every month. What should motivate them to come here? They interact with their listeners via their site, so why come here to do it?

Exactly my point ferg... I'm not saying I don't understand 'why' they don't come here anymore. Just saying that, from a community standpoint, it causes some folks to get a little open with slamming on fellow podcasters.

joelthecomic

May 10th, 2005, 11:22 AM

Welcome to the world of podcasting, Mortimer.

First off, check out our show. If you like an edgy talk show with a geek edge, then it's right up your alley. It's only about a month old now, but it's catching on.

Second, we got dumped on for going on this forum and basically saying the same thing. Apparently, you can't voice an opinion on these boards without upsetting the "community" of podcasters. Be careful what you say around here, if you say "Hey the top-rated shows suck!", most of the top-rated show guys will come out of the woodwork and start bad-mouthing you. We never even listened to most of these shows! It's like saying "Hey, you with the unfunny show!", then seeing who turns around. It's unintentionally hilarious.

Of course, the top-rated shows are listed so high because of phoney votes (in many cases). That's been well documented in other threads, so look it up. If you don't pay attention to who's at the top, you'll probably find some good stuff.

The voting really means nothing -- now go vote for us.

allthewhile

May 10th, 2005, 11:35 AM

Of course, the top-rated shows are listed so high because of phoney votes (in many cases). That's been well documented in other threads, so look it up. If you don't pay attention to who's at the top, you'll probably find some good stuff.

There has been one substantiated case of voter fraud that caused a show to get onto the top ten and it was removed promptly.

The other shows are popular, and we should be careful about accusing them of cheating if we don't have proof.

But yeah, you should check out other shows besides the top ten.

drew

May 10th, 2005, 11:56 AM

soccergirl

May 10th, 2005, 12:10 PM

I think everyone should learn something from dnd. Namely, do your own thing and respect everyone else's thing. When you bash other podcasts, you just end up looking like a retard.

yeah yeah, beating a dead horse, blah blah.

You all need to chill out: smoke a bowl, get laid, hell, go to church if that's what does it for ya.

Maybe all your angsty-ness could really contribute to a kick *** punk album or something.

cid92

May 10th, 2005, 12:11 PM

i don't participate here anymore because of threads like this. i wish it wasn't so. but like i've always said, our show is not for everyone and we love our listeners.

Well, when you're one of the top rated shows, expect to get dumped on. Think Microsoft....

That doesn't mean that you can't participate. So what if threads like this exist. You should be happy that they do. It keeps your name in "circulation" and more than likely draws new people to this community to your show to see what it's all about. It's "free marketing" and you know it.

Ignore these threads and contribute to others then. Help out those that are starting up. Talk about the production of your show. Talk about hardware/software. God forbid, talk about other shows you might happen to listen to. So what if someone flames on you. It doesn't mean you have to acknowlegde it. There are a million other ways to be part of this board if you choose to. Hiding from the "critics" here does nothing but support their theories that you've gotten to big for your britches and are too good to be part of this community. If anything, participating would deflate them cause you're not playing their game anymore.

ferg

May 10th, 2005, 12:12 PM

Second, we got dumped on for going on this forum and basically saying the same thing.

Waaaa waaaa waaaa.

Nobody dumped on you for stating your opinion. You said that you didn't like the top rated shows (your opinion), and some people countered with their opinion. There's a difference between disagreement and "dumping".

However, once someone disagreed with you, you became vitriolic and hostile, and that's when people jumped all over you.

Yes, yes. You bust balls. I know.

joelthecomic

May 10th, 2005, 12:23 PM

However, once someone disagreed with you, you became vitriolic and hostile, and that's when people jumped all over you.

You wanna revisit the previous posts? All I said is the same thing the original poster said. You and Version 3 (god's gift to comedy I'm sure) then attacked me personally including the way I look, insulted pictures of others on my website, pissed on my career (I've been a professional stand-up since 1999), threatened violence against our guest (Version 3) and said other heinous things which had nothing to do with podcasting whatsoever.

I didn't insult anyone, just gave my opinion about a show.

Who's vitriolic and hostile? I'll stay on topic here, thats all.

fauxlover

May 10th, 2005, 12:25 PM

Jesus. We live in a cosmos that condones the wholesale destruction of stars and solar systems, has no problem with comets careening into planets, populated or not, and we depend on an inconceivable ongoing thermonuclear reaction to keep us warm, but not too warm.

Podcasting Etiquette. Right.

danklass

May 10th, 2005, 12:25 PM

Second, we got dumped on for going on this forum and basically saying the same thing. Apparently, you can't voice an opinion on these boards without upsetting the "community" of podcasters. Be careful what you say around here, if you say "Hey the top-rated shows suck!", most of the top-rated show guys will come out of the woodwork and start bad-mouthing you. We never even listened to most of these shows! It's like saying "Hey, you with the unfunny show!", then seeing who turns around. It's unintentionally hilarious.

Actually, I think the difference is that the person who started this thread had actually LISTENED to the show he was critisizing.

Yeah, I have to admit, if you make a blanket statement of "the top shows suck," that might raise a few hairs on the back of a few heads. I think every podcaster needs to be able to take critisism, and understand that not everyone is going to like every show, but you guys got in hot water for shooting your mouths off about shows you admittedly hadn't even listened to for the sole purpose of raking some muck.

And, as I remember, it wasn't like saying "Hey, you with the unfunny show!" and seeing who turned around. It was like saying "Hey, you, your show is not funny!" while pointing a finger directly at someone and then wondering why that someone didn't want to take you to their busom. Now THAT is hilarious.

I don't blame D&D for steering clear of the PA forums. Why take the abuse? The thing is we could all be LEARNING from D&D. They're clearly doing SOMETHING RIGHT! Hey, I feel as competitive with them as anyone in the universe, but to completely dismiss them is foolish. We are all trying to appeal to our audience and the gigantic D&D audience LOVES THEM.

Check out the interview with D&D at www.podcastsolutions.com.

Time to go back into the woodwork...

- dK

ferg

May 10th, 2005, 12:46 PM

All I said is the same thing the original poster said.
I didn't insult anyone, just gave my opinion about a show.

From your original post:

Right now, podcasts are usually done by people with technical know-how and not creative abilility

It's a shame the top of the charts is the same Dawn and Drew, bibb and Yaz, PK & J crap

You'd be better off listening to the Morning Zoo than most of that crap.

Sounds like more than just giving an opinion on a podcast, but okay...this is my response (and while it's not the whole thing, I'm not editing out any negative stuff I may have said about you):

Also, I think you'll find you'll get much more out of your podcasting experience if you embrace the community, rather than blasting it. I think that's a bit of biting the hand that feeds, so to speak, but above and beyond that, you'll find that there's a lot of really cool people and really cool podcasts out there that are worth listening, too.

No one attacked you until you got nasty. Go back and re-read the post.
Also in the prior thread you stated:

Feel to criticize the comments here or on my show. It's OK. Corey and I dish it out, but we can take it, too.

but, then...

You and Version 3 (god's gift to comedy I'm sure) then attacked me personally including the way I look, insulted pictures of others on my website, pissed on my career (I've been a professional stand-up since 1999), threatened violence against our guest (Version 3) and said other heinous things which had nothing to do with podcasting whatsoever.

Waaa waaa waaa.

Go back and read the post. Better yet, go back and listen to the things you said about other podcasts and podcasters on your show...then come back here and tell me that "all i said was the same thing the original poster said".

Illinoise

May 10th, 2005, 12:50 PM

I think everyone should learn something from dnd. Namely, do your own thing and respect everyone else's thing. When you bash other podcasts, you just end up looking like a retard.

Far be it from me to condone the DnD content or anything "Boobs" McLure has said here (no, dK, I don't mean you), but let's get real ...

Podcast Alley is full of podcasting nerds.

Why would Drew want to be here, unless he has penchant for misery? These forums are not where he gets his listeners from. These forums are for podcasters who like to discuss podcasting as an art or new podcasters who THINK this is the place to get listeners. (Note: it's not.)

Drew has something every podcaster wishes they had: non-podcasting listeners. He is building an audience that does not necessary consist of tech nerds. So he doesn't hang out here. Understandable. Have you seen some of the threads? There's a chick here who flashes her boobs. What interest would Drew have in that? He's happily married. C'mon people. Use the noggin.

fauxlover

May 10th, 2005, 12:54 PM

Ha! Pete, you're obviously not married. (fingers crossed)

Scorpio Moon

May 10th, 2005, 01:09 PM

The thing is we could all be LEARNING from D&D. They're clearly doing SOMETHING RIGHT!

I have to respectfully disagree with you, Dan.

The only two things Dawn and Drew did "right" were to get into podcasting early and talk endlessly about Adam Curry during every show for weeks, which, of course, got his attention and helped them get repeatedly mentioned on his show. For them, it was more about luck of timing than some sort of genuis.

When Adam Curry first started doing press for podcasting (in late September 2004), there weren't many shows for him to tell people about. So, of course, he was going to always mention D&D, Rock and Roll Geek Show and a couple of others. It was the endorsement from him that, I believe, got them started and has sustained their popularity. They did nothing clever in terms or content nor marketing. They are simply riding on the coat tails of Adam Curry.

Nick Starr

May 10th, 2005, 01:15 PM

mental-escher

May 10th, 2005, 01:22 PM

You all need to chill out: smoke a bowl, get laid, hell, go to church if that's what does it for ya.

Maybe all your angsty-ness could really contribute to a kick *** punk album or something.

Hey, now there's a contructive idea- so there IS intelligent life out there - thanks SoccergURL!

:idea: ...(bows and grovels with newfound respect)...

dcolanduno

May 10th, 2005, 01:35 PM

dcolanduno wrote:
The interesting sidenote has to be that they don't come here and participate anymore in the community.

They seem to just hang out on thier own forum, and continue to get new listeners from being in the top 3-4 here each month. Kind of disheartening in a way, from a 'like them' standpoint.

i don't participate here anymore because of threads like this. i wish it wasn't so. but like i've always said, our show is not for everyone and we love our listeners.

I understand, and... as it was pointed out earlier... it IS the Microsoft effect. Whoever is #1, gets the HEAT. Although, that's a good problem really. :)

drew

May 10th, 2005, 01:37 PM

it IS the Microsoft effect. Whoever is #1, gets the HEAT. Although, that's a good problem really. :)

#2 also ;)

Scorpio Moon

May 10th, 2005, 01:55 PM

There was nothing else to talk about back at the beginning stages, everyone (not just D&D) were talking about other podcasts.

Oh, please. That is an absolutely lame defense.

LOL! Actually, that cracks me the more I think about it.

If that in fact is the case, then it proves my original point--there is nothing that can be learned from D&D because they didn't have the creativity nor ingenuity to come up with anything truly original and simply talked about Adam Curry because, after all, "there was nothing else to talk about".

Wisdom to be learned from the Dawn and Drew Show: If you don't have anything to say or can't think of anything to say, simply talk about Adam Curry. That will get you listeners.

yaz

May 10th, 2005, 02:01 PM

i just don't get the concept that being one of the pioneers will get you a shitload of listeners when the quality isn't there...anyway, it was good to see the lap dog nick starr jump and bite everyone in the ankles...gaf...the fact that they faked sex on their show should've lost them listeners not gained them, but then again, most people are stupid, especially the made email ones that don't really have a voice...

dcolanduno

May 10th, 2005, 03:05 PM

Actually,

I think that a lot of people have forgotten what the goal of podcasting is when we get into these little spats.

Like D&D, or not... the show has a place for a lot of folks. I think that shows like that are more 'club' shows. They are made FOR the club/group of listeners that follow the lives and show regularly. It's not as much about content as it is, a 'group' experience and club, a social circle of sorts.

I'll admit, I only catch one out of every 3-4 D&D shows, because, I like to keep up on what the different popular folks are doing in p'casting, so I end up missing a lot of stuff. I, since I don't listen regularly enough, understand how a lot of people could listen once or twice and not 'get' the content. It's there, it's just in the on-going experience as a D&D listener, more than the shows individually.

That IS something a little different than what you hear on FM/AM radio... so it has an audience... I can totally 'get that'. There are a few other shows like this Kieth and the girl, etc...

I think the top 10 podcasts really reflect the fact that people have gravitated tword what they CANT get on AM/FM... Godcasting, Indy Music, 'Clubcasts' like D&D.

Have a listen to the Behind the Scenes podcastr with David Miller, the most recent show... they talk about this a little, I agree with most of it.

WHY are D&D in the top 1-10 all the time, because thier listeners are 'loyal'... I know a lot of podcasts that might have as many or more listeners, but those folks listen to so many shows that they don't feel like they HAVE to vote for thier favorites because they don't have a reason to, or... the hosts don't ask or push them to. Which is perfectly fine, just remember keep that in mind!

Scorpio Moon

May 10th, 2005, 03:30 PM

since I don't listen regularly enough, understand how a lot of people could listen once or twice and not 'get' the content. It's there, it's just in the on-going experience as a D&D listener, more than the shows individually.

I have to disagree with this as well.

I've listened to about half a dozen of their shows. Trust me, I gave it a chance. I tried to hear, and appreciate, what it is about this show that people like so much. All what I heard was the same repetitive crap each time:

My impression of D&D:

Drew: Hi everyone!
Dawn: Don't say "hi", Drew. You're an idiot!
Drew: I'm not an idiot.
Dawn: No, you're not. So, what's new?
Drew: I ate a hard-boiled egg today.
Dawn: "Hard"? You always like 'em hard don't you?
Drew: (Chuckle, chuckle...) Yeah, I do. But you like things hard too!
Dawn: I wonder if your boyfriend Adam Curry likes it hard.
Drew: My boyfriend? He's your boyfriend!
Dawn: Have you ever put an egg up your ***, Drew?

Gag. Gag. Gag.

And it's the same shtick every...single...time.

It's so trite and so not even close to being provocative or smart.

Thank God there are so many other shows out there that are so much better.

I know Keith (from Keith and the Girl) is a bit of an attention whore, and I don't want to feed into his ego, but, I have to admit, KATG is a million times better than D&D. Not only are they much more intelligent and lead far from interesting lives than D&D, but they actually have quite a few moments within each show that is truly funny.

coreytronic

May 10th, 2005, 04:05 PM

Scorpio you are absolutely correct.

I think that what makes podcasting so exciting is what will ultimately hinder it's growth as a medium with real mainstream impact. A great many podcasters, with a few notable exceptions, are not professionals, and that creates the same sort of car wreck fascination you get from no budget movies, true indie music and amateur porn. The diversity of subjects and genres available on this site bears that out, and chances are if there's a topic not being covered it soon will be. That's great for religious, tech, sci fi, etc, plenty of cool stuff out there if you want. The problem is that comedy, which is very popular, is not easy. However everybody thinks they're a comedian. And when people like DND are in the top spot, while it might be cute/engaging, whatever, it's not really funny. The proof is in the listening. Our show is a comedy show, we want you to laugh and laugh often. It's not for everyones taste. So be it. Part of comedy is having a thick skin, and you will never be able to properly dispense insults unless you can take them.

Sorry, the above post was about as funny as heart disease.

dcolanduno

May 10th, 2005, 04:05 PM

I know Keith (from Keith and the Girl) is a bit of an attention whore

LOL,

I think being podcasters... we all fit into that category. :)

joelthecomic

May 10th, 2005, 04:14 PM

Hey Ferg,

We did dump on you ON OUR SHOW. Which is a whole different animal than this board. Nobody wants to read about your petty arguments with us on this board. We really didn't even know who you were until you opened your yap here. I'm kinda sorry we even wasted time with you. It might be funnier if any of our listeners knew who you are, anyway. (It was show 8 if anyone wants to listen).

This thread is about how Dawn and Drew suck. If you want to start a thread that's titled "Corey and Joel Suck", then go ahead we'll be honored to have it. Until then i think we're better off leaving that stuff behind. We'll take our funny show, and you take your unrealistically-high-but-you'd-never-ever-fake-it April votes and be happy. You're a top rated show now kid, buck up. Besides, it's hard keeping Corey on short leash in here.

bazookajoeshow

May 10th, 2005, 04:15 PM

LOL-This coming from a guy who has a farting avatar!

Bazooka Joe

i just don't get the concept that being one of the pioneers will get you a shitload of listeners when the quality isn't there...anyway, it was good to see the lap dog nick starr jump and bite everyone in the ankles...gaf...the fact that they faked sex on their show should've lost them listeners not gained them, but then again, most people are stupid, especially the made email ones that don't really have a voice...

spaz

May 10th, 2005, 04:22 PM

The good thing about podcasting is if you don't like a show, don't listen...I don't even have time to listen to all the shows I like...

Famous Mortimer

May 10th, 2005, 04:32 PM

Ye gods. Sorry for stirring up some badness with my original post, I hadn't looked through the old threads I admit. I just saw it was the no.1 show, had a listen and thought "huh?" To expect people to listen to tales of your life, either your life has to be exciting or you have to present it in an interesting/funny way. I didn't think Dawn and Drew did that. Ah well, I'll give another show a listen (I have plenty of time at work to spend) and I'll see. But then, I love the Microtonal music cast, so who am I to judge?

ferg

May 10th, 2005, 04:44 PM

Hey Ferg,
We did dump on you ON OUR SHOW. Which is a whole different animal than this board. Nobody wants to read about your petty arguments with us on this board. We really didn't even know who you were until you opened your yap here.

I wasn't necessarily referring to what you said about me, but about other podcasters in general. It was relevant, because you came on here referring to a post where supposedly innocently made a comment about another 'cast and got lambasted.

The truth is you've said a number of negative things about many casts on the board, but never mentioned anything you liked...and many of the comments you've made suggested that you never really bothered to listen in the first place.

This is all relevant to anyone reading your opinion on a podcast, because they need to know that it's oft uninformed always in the interest of self promotion.

coreytronic

May 10th, 2005, 05:01 PM

May 10th, 2005, 05:29 PM

i don't participate here anymore because of threads like this. i wish it wasn't so. but like i've always said, our show is not for everyone and we love our listeners.

Having listened (albeit on and off) to DnD for a good while now, I can see why they're persistently in the top 3 shows on PA. The listener base they have is amazing, just look at their forum and how busy it is. Personally, I don't mind them once in a while and it was good to get their side on the Podshow deal once it was announced last week. People have hit the nail right on the head when they say that the top rated shows can expect to get beat on; I seem to remember a lot of people pissing on FTL a few months back; its something that will always happen and as long as it is, these shows will continue to get droves of listeners, because they're the shows that are being talked about.

So in short, good luck to DnD with the podshow thing. I'm sure the majority of us are very keen to see how it'll work out for you.

ferg

May 10th, 2005, 05:35 PM

Ferg,

Though I am loathe to enter into this little pissing contest you have going with my partner, I want to offer you and everyone else this solemn vow. I will never bash on any unfunny, rambling, clueless, dull as dirt podcast until I have personally listened to it. It's fair, not good for my mental health, but fair.

And sadly, I have listened to your show.

xoxo
Corey

Aww, c'mon.
You know this is fun. You couldn't tear yourself away if you tried.

I think you "listening" to our show is a little suspect, really. You recently referred to us with some defamatory term that included the word "granola", which really does suggest that, if you were listening, you weren't paying attention.

Anyway, despite what you may think, I appreciate the effort.
Nobody's for everybody, which is why I'm not certain why anyone bashes anyone on this board (unless they're just bored, like me). With many shows, also, it is difficult to get a sense of the show from some random minute sampling.

Be honest (and I'm not ripping you here, I'm just proving a point) - go back to your show and pick one of these three "bits":

-the "roast" material from a recent show, filled with inside jokes.
-the bit where joel was karaoking that song (can i have your attention?)
-any part of the episode with the young girl on it

From an outsiders point of view, can you honestly say that was funny?
Like I said, I'm really not ripping on you here, they can't all be winners. I've stated before on this forum that I've heard stuff on your show that made me laugh (including some of the stuff ripping on me, but, hey, I'm a narcissist).

That's not to say you'd find AirFerg funny if you did really give it a chance, but it is to say that some small portion isn't always indicative of the "whole". That said, I think many podcasts (including my own) can work on being a little more "grabbing" from the get go so people who aren't regular listeners are immediately drawn in...i'm just saying...

jawbone

May 10th, 2005, 05:37 PM

I think you should all just listen to our show, Jawbone Radio, and be done with it. :D

danklass

May 10th, 2005, 06:00 PM

I think you should all just listen to our show, Jawbone Radio, and be done with it.

I did, and I enjoyed it.

So there...

- dK

www.thebitterestpill.com

WyethDigital

May 10th, 2005, 07:14 PM

That doesn't mean that you can't participate. So what if threads like this exist. You should be happy that they do. It keeps your name in "circulation" and more than likely draws new people to this community to your show to see what it's all about. It's "free marketing" and you know it.

Why should they show up to take the abuse? Even by your reasoning, with posts like this, they'll still get the attention, and they won't have to waste a finite amount of time endlessly defending themselves in pointless threads like this at PA.

The only two things Dawn and Drew did "right" were to get into podcasting early and talk endlessly about Adam Curry during every show for weeks, which, of course, got his attention and helped them get repeatedly mentioned on his show. For them, it was more about luck of timing than some sort of genuis.

Okay "genuis," tell us one super awe-inspiring mental feat of yours which has brought thousands of listeners to your show? The fact is, faking a sex act was a smart thing to do, because it was a stunt to get votes which also generated a lot of buzz. It certainly wasn't the "high road" in Podcasting history, I'll grant you that, but it was effective. To say otherwise is simply obtuse.

Let's look at some other "genuis" things they've done:
â€¢ They opened their own forum, thus creating a place for listeners who didn't want to get bogged down in all the nerd stuff of Podcasting to hang out and simply be fans.
â€¢ They've adopted fans who are (sometimes too) passionate about the show, thus creating ambassadors for their show.
â€¢ They've held irreverent contests and promotions that tie into their show.
â€¢ They've announced when and where they take trips so they can hang out with fans.

Hmmm... Nope. Nothing to learn from there. I don't honestly know why they get so many votes. Doesn't make sense to me. I think I'll post (yet another) negative thread about it, saying they suck. Yep. That'll keep 'em coming back!

Finally:
Dawn and Drew not all that good
I mean, help me out someone. I'm perfectly happy to be proved wrong, but I just can't see how they got so many votes. Anyone>?
Here's the thing Famous, instead of posting something snarky like that, if you are truly curious (and I have no reason to think you aren't), why not title it something a little more neutral sounding? Instead of saying "not that good" (which would be more appropriate in the show comments), why not post something more inquisitive? A couple of possibilities: "Dawn and Drew show: Why so popular?" or maybe "What are DnD doing to get so many votes?"

You'll get the same malcontents that flame Dawn and Drew whenever someone gives em a chance, but at least you won't necessarily be the one that people come down on, and you might get some honest insight into why they're so popular -- at least once the "Podcast Punditry and Creative Judgement BrigadeÂ®" get bored and move onto flaming the next most popular Podcast, that is. ;)

Catch you later,

Eric

cid92

May 10th, 2005, 07:36 PM

jawbone

May 10th, 2005, 07:45 PM

I think you should all just listen to our show, Jawbone Radio, and be done with it.

I did, and I enjoyed it.

So there...

- dK

www.thebitterestpill.com

Excellent! My plan is slowly coming to light.

Mwhahahahahaha!

:shock:

I mean...Thanks for listening and enjoying, Dan! :D

WyethDigital

May 10th, 2005, 07:52 PM

Hence the part about ignoring the abuse and sticking with adding contributions to the forums. Like it or not abuse happens every day around you. By your logic I should never bother waking up since there is the possibility that I might take some abuse from someone who doesn't like the way I talk, or drive, or do my work.
Now you know good and well that driving and working and doing all those other things we need to do to survive are completely different and unrelated to showing up on a forum where 4 out of 5 posts about you are negative. I ask again: Why waste the time?

I just think that becoming invisible on the board is not the best way to handle the critics. Being an active member in a community or on the forums is a great way to silence the critics. Not posting is a fuel for the "see, they don't care anymore cause they are so popular" fire.
It only adds fuel to the fire to those who choose to see it that way. I look at it as taking the high road. I also wonder what Dawn and Drew have to gain by comig here anymore? Why come here and offer commentary, advice or ideas to a bunch of whiners who wouldn't appreciate it, that are caught up in some highschool level conspiracy theory about voting and popularity? If the "community" doesn't like you, or what you do, why come back?

Eric

jeffoest

May 10th, 2005, 08:49 PM

I watch these threads with both a strange curiosity and a bit of disdain. I supppose I'll add a few of my thoughts to it....

1) I think it's a shame that this particular discussion group (and I know full well that's it's not the silent majority) show such jealousy to succesful podcasters. I further think it's a shame that because of this Drew does not contribute to this forum. I've found him to be smart, funny and a super nice guy that would greatly benefit Podcast Alley by contributing. But I don't blame him one bit for not hanging out here.

2) As far as the 'reason' for DND popularity being one largely centered around the fact that they were one of the first podcasters, I frankly don't buy it. We have all benefited from the 'early adopters' which I would maintain are still the primary podcast listeners at this point in time. The characteristics of early adopters are technically savvy, up to date on technologies that interest them, and usually intellectually curious. My point being - these people are constantly looking for new podcasts to listen to and enjoy and they know very well how to use their iPodder software and find new podcasts. If DND got an early boost because they were early adopters themselves, their listeners have by this time, been exposed to a countless number of podcasts. If the show was not appealing, they certainly wouldn't continue to listen. Further, I'm sure that there are early adopter podcasts that haven't been as successful.

3) I find the 'intellectual' arguments about why some people's show's are theoretically funner, better produced, more imaginative, etc. etc. to be pretty meaningless. I'm sure that Joel (and I'm only picking on him because has has provided the most obvious example) could certainly enumerate some bullet points on why his show is funnier. Heck, I'm sure that I could bullet point some reasons why This And That (w/ Jeff and Pat) is better. And I'm sure that others on this forum (including DND) could also provide a similar analysis. But, of course, we are biased and tend to overhype the good in our podcasts and underemphasize the weaknesses. At the end of the day - do you have repeat subscribers and is that subscriber base growing? That's the best indicator of a potentially succesful podcast, not any type of theories on why you're better. Ultimately the public decides what shows are worthy of their time.

4) Eric speaks a lot of truth. I believe that at the end of the day, when the 'textbooks' are written on the early days of podcasting, DND will be prominent because of the smart things they have done and their programming content. Go ahead and ignore the lessons. Your 'competition' is not.

WyethDigital

May 10th, 2005, 10:01 PM

4) Eric speaks a lot of truth. I believe that at the end of the day, when the 'textbooks' are written on the early days of podcasting, DND will be prominent because of the smart things they have done and their programming content. Go ahead and ignore the lessons. Your 'competition' is not.

I've said it before Jeff, and I'll say it again: You're one of the smart ones! I'll mail you that five bucks I owe you tomorrow ;)

Okay, enough self agrandizement!

And enough scolding. I'm sure this thread will die the same as all the rest.... in complete and utter boredom. Where's that dead horse graphic when you need it?

Eric

justSue

May 10th, 2005, 10:12 PM

Where's that dead horse graphic when you need it?

Eric

I agree with both of you whole-heartedly. jeffoest brings up a good point about bullet-points, and I'd like to add that what one thinks is funny, just as what one thinks is beautiful or horrible, is completely subjective.

And with that said, I bring to you [without permission, cropped, altered, and stolen from google image search and put on my own web server] said equine.

http://www.mmcxii.com/junk/deadhorse.jpg

ferg

May 10th, 2005, 11:04 PM

I watch these threads with both a strange curiosity and a bit of disdain. I supppose I'll add a few of my thoughts to it....

Ahhhhh.
Once again, Jeff gives a breath of fresh air to anotherwise dark and dreary topic.

Jeff, you make good points. Dawn and Drew have nearly 100 episodes. I myself, a latecomer, have probably listened to 30 or so. There's something there worth listening to.

I think Joel and Corey's points are a little misguided, largely because podcasts such as Dawn and Drew are listed in the "comedy" genre. Being actual professional comics (and I use that term loosely), they expect comedy to be, well, comedy in the format to which they are accustomed.

Dawn and Drew aren't doing standup. I really enjoy their show, and will occasionally laugh out loud, but they are not comedians. However, where else does their podcast fit? It's very light, and often funny...so, comedy.

I think a lot of us find ourselves in that same situation, but should we all throw ourselves in the "general" bucket? I dunno. I think we're all trying to be funny and found to be funny by some people....

But my point is that it seems that the point Joel is trying to make is that podcasts such as this do not belong in the "comedy" genre. I don't think I agree, but that point is not entirely without merit. That said, we do our best to find the place we fit best.

I think the thing that bugs me most is the notion of people badmouthing other podcasts just because they're ahead of them in the rankings. Dawn and Drew have been on top forever, and have always been generous. In fact, I owe a chunk of my audience to a promo of mine that they played in the early days of our podcast (not that long ago) [there's a hint there, fellas - there's other ways to get publicity]....they're simply good people, smart people, and whether you choose to admit it or not funny people.

For the record, though, Jeff...just once, I'd like to hear an honest-to-goodness rant on a podcast. You can't be this even-tempered all the time! :wink:

WyethDigital

May 10th, 2005, 11:17 PM

And with that said, I bring to you [without permission, cropped, altered, and stolen from google image search and put on my own web server] said equine.

http://www.mmcxii.com/junk/deadhorse.jpg

I think I was there once! I learned quickly to leave the fallen apples alone! :P

Eric

Scorpio Moon

May 10th, 2005, 11:35 PM

I think it's a shame that this particular discussion group (and I know full well that's it's not the silent majority) show such jealousy to succesful podcasters.

Why in the world would I be jealous of a "successful podcaster"? I'm not a podcaster. I have no desire to be one. I listened to D&D and have a strong opinion about why I think the show is horrible. I'm also sick of them getting far more attention than they should while there are many other podcasters who are contributing so much more but simply refuse to whore themselves.

If DND got an early boost because they were early adopters themselves, their listeners have by this time, been exposed to a countless number of podcasts. If the show was not appealing, they certainly wouldn't continue to listen.

Are you really that naive? Have you been to Adam Curry's Web site latrely? There are a large group of people out there who would eat their own poop if Adam told them to. People listen to D&D because Adam Curry tells them to. And when something is rammed down your throat often enough, one can't help but feel like they're either missing out on something or aren't "in the know" if they don't, in this case, listen.

But don't take my word for it, let's just see how many people flock to D&D when Adam Curry spends four hours a day talking about their show while your own podcast received little attention.

At the end of the day - do you have repeat subscribers and is that subscriber base growing? That's the best indicator of a potentially succesful podcast, not any type of theories on why you're better. Ultimately the public decides what shows are worthy of their time.

Again, I am not a podcaster. And speaking as a listener, there are very few shows I listen to on a regular basis. Like D&D, many podcasters shoot their load within a few weeks and, soon after, become really boring and redundant.

In fact, and I mean this with the greatest respect, if many of you spent as much time working on the content of your shows as you spend time posting here, your podcasters might be that much better.

WyethDigital

May 11th, 2005, 12:00 AM

Why in the world would I be jealous of a "successful podcaster"? I'm not a podcaster. I have no desire to be one. I listened to D&D and have a strong opinion about why I think the show is horrible. I'm also sick of them getting far more attention than they should while there are many other podcasters who are contributing so much more but simply refuse to whore themselves.(emphasis mine)

See, this is why I get bugged by comments like yours. I'm a listener, too. I don't have a Podcast. I don't currently have a Podcast planned. So as a listener I don't like someone making value judgements for me.

You don't like Dawn and Drew. Cool. I have no problem with that. I can understand why. But who made you, and the others like you, the ones responsible for deciding who "deserves" the attention?

"We say they suck, and now they won't contribute. Must be big egos!" Somehow these threads always end up making Dawn and Drew out to be the villians, as if the fact that they don't want to squabble with you is somehow their fault. I've got news for you. It's not. check your mirror.

Ian must be rubbing off on me (God help me)! But the market has decided who gets the attention. And right now that is Dawn and Drew.

My 2Â¢

Eric

bramley

May 11th, 2005, 12:11 AM

I think the thing that bugs me most is the notion of people badmouthing other podcasts just because they're ahead of them in the rankings.

I agree, but to be fair, I often feel that people raise this question, using D&D as only one example because they are intrigued/concerned/annoyed/frightened by how the genre of podcasting is being defined. And moreover, how it is being presented to the world at large. The medium is so diverse now, but we still seem to only have a few examples out there representing "us." Yammer, god, sex, music.

(Someone very knowledgeable about the diversity of the podcasting world who shall remain nameless recently needed to suggest podcasts to an outside party and he told me he picked mine as one of the few examples of something highly produced and widely appealing without R-content or religion. And that's someone INSIDE podcasting who knows a lot of podcasts thinking this.)

I also think that there's room somewhere for a discussion of what makes a "good" podcast or one that demonstrates talent. But that's never really happens beyond attack and defense it seems to me, though I could be wrong because I stopped hanging around the PA for awhile because of the tone. Of course, anytime anyone wants to start it...

There are a large group of people out there who would eat their own poop if Adam told them to.

**** you for giving me that image. But you're right ... sadly. Do you think if I dedicate one of my shows to the culinary possibilities and gourmet aspects of poop, I'll get AC's attention?

WyethDigital

May 11th, 2005, 12:20 AM

**** you for giving me that image. But you're right ... sadly. Do you think if I dedicate one of my shows to the culinary possibilities and gourmet aspects of poop, I'll get AC's attention?

Possibly, but I'd bet more on the Daily Download. That's kind of a specialty niche there... You could consider a Podcast crossover with the 'Download. Maybe you could challenge him to make the entree (I recall that he likes a good dare), and you could do the salad. Just, um, don't put me on the guest list or anything....

Eric

PS -- Your point about R rated Podcasts is well taken, but I have to say that it seems to be a fairly wide spread issue, not just associated with the most visible Podcasters. I think its possibly a stretching of the wings, to thumb the nose at the FCC. As more people listen, the demand for clean Podcasts will grow, and I think the community will respond.

bramley

May 11th, 2005, 12:20 AM

Ian must be rubbing off on me (God help me)! But the market has decided who gets the attention. And right now that is Dawn and Drew.

But the market also brought us Fox TV, Brittany Spears, Budweiser, and "managed care." But that doesn't make these things good.

If god doesn't help you, Eric, I'll send you emails taunting you will my liberal ideology. And some British rap music. :wink:

bramley

May 11th, 2005, 12:33 AM

That's kind of a specialty niche there... You could consider a Podcast crossover with the 'Download. Maybe you could challenge him to make the entree (I recall that he likes a good dare), and you could do the salad. Just, um, don't put me on the guest list or anything....

Sign me up. See you all in the top 10! (goodness, which emoticon is appropriate here? How to express sarcasm and good-natured ribbing in one face?)

cid92

May 11th, 2005, 12:33 AM

My 2Â¢

Where'd you get the cents symbol from?!? Remember when typewriters had that on one of the shifted keys?

xtffx

May 11th, 2005, 12:41 AM

WyethDigital

May 11th, 2005, 12:43 AM

My 2Â¢

Where'd you get the cents symbol from?!? Remember when typewriters had that on one of the shifted keys?

No problem. I'm on a Mac, and on that system, you hold down the "option" key and press the 4($) key. If you're on Windows, I would imagine it would be something similar in function, but I'm not familiar with their key mapping.

Hope this helps!

Eric

jeffoest

May 11th, 2005, 12:45 AM

I've said it before Jeff, and I'll say it again: You're one of the smart ones! I'll mail you that five bucks I owe you tomorrow ;)

Actually, I think I'm the one that owes you for that compliment! lol

For the record, though, Jeff...just once, I'd like to hear an honest-to-goodness rant on a podcast. You can't be this even-tempered all the time!

I know! I need probably need too! I DID rant a bit on our last show (I think I even swore once). For some reason, though I tend to put on the 'rational' filter when confronted with rants or emotions - natural instinct for good or for bad....

Are you really that naive? Have you been to Adam Curry's Web site latrely? There are a large group of people out there who would eat their own poop if Adam told them to. People listen to D&D because Adam Curry tells them to. And when something is rammed down your throat often enough, one can't help but feel like they're either missing out on something or aren't "in the know" if they don't, in this case, listen.

Wow! Well, with all due respect I'd have to say you're doing a bit of projecting (mapping your own feelings to a larger audience) here. I can't say I've ever felt like any type of podcast content was rammed down my throat. In fact that's what I love about this medium - I've always felt the exact opposite of that - I have more choices and complete control of my listening environment.

People listen to D&D because Adam Curry tells them to.

Clearly you and I are on very different wavelengths with respect to this point.

Famous Mortimer

May 11th, 2005, 06:23 AM

... here's a thought for you. Maybe different people like different things. And, just maybe, not everyone thinks like you do. A shocking idea, I know! But ...
Really? Thanks for the revelation- I always thought people were supposed to share my opinions fully. But now I know otherwise.

I just listened to another show, and...it's better than I thought. But still not as good as a bunch of other shows I've listened to. It's...alright. My original point should, I guess, have been "why do people think they're the top rated show?". I don't consider their show to be strong enough, and I'm quite surprised it's gotten so big. It's not that I can't understand why people might like it, but I'm wondering why so many people like it when I'm really struggling to see its merits. People do have different opinions, but the whole point of forums like this is for people to debate those opinions. If it was just "Hey, I like show X", then someone else saying "yes, I agree" I don't think many people would visit here.

boo&amanda

May 11th, 2005, 08:38 AM

Well, I just listened to my first show from the top-rated "comedy" show on this here podcasting alley. The first question that springs to mind is why all the fuss? There's a bunch of shows I can think of off the top of my head that are plenty funnier (Unemployment Line, PK and J, Keith and the Girl), and that try harder as well.

It's massively self-indulgent. I mean, all shows that feature someone talking about themselves are going to be self-indulgent, but at least the good ones try harder. I got a couple of people talking about how fame won't change them and they're now setting up a production company. Am I missing something? Is every other show they've done much better, or did they do something "shocking" early on that's caused loads of people to tune in?

I mean, help me out someone. I'm perfectly happy to be proved wrong, but I just can't see how they got so many votes. Anyone>?

Okay, I'm a long time lurker, first time poster.

So you "just listened to your first show" and you disliked it, and you can list all these other shows that are "plenty funnier and that try harder as well".

So here's what I've got to say: First off, you only listened to one show, apparently, so you may not have understood everything that was going on, like past references to old jokes and happenings. Why don't you go back a few epsodes, say 4 and give all of them a listen. Maybe you would understand.

I just listened to another show, and...it's better than I thought. See? But then, what are your merits to listening to podcasts anyway?

I believe also, that "all the fuss", is because people just like their show. It's not like any other show. They talk about what happens to them and the people around them and their environment and things that interest them that would interest their audience. They can't please everyone. They're doing what they do, and they're good at it, obviously.

If there are alot of others shows that you like, why bash DND? If you didn't like it, don't bother flaming them because there's no point. You like what you like, you don't like what you don't. As simple as that. (As for myself, I'm not fond of Adam Curry's show, but I don't go flaming him.)

If it was just "Hey, I like show X", then someone else saying "yes, I agree" I don't think many people would visit here. But it's not like we all HAVE TO disagree. You don't have to completely love a show. I am an avid fan of DND but I don't like it when they play some of the calls that they get, because it's mostly boring fluff, so I fast forward it. You don't have to hate anything or love anything, nobody said you did.

You don't like Dawn and Drew. Cool. I have no problem with that. I can understand why. But who made you, and the others like you, the ones responsible for deciding who "deserves" the attention? Exactly my point.

Different people have different shows, so who made you God?

I always thought people were supposed to share my opinions fully. But now I know otherwise. Then how come you aren't accepting what other people have to say? You said yourself that you're happy to be proved wrong, but I don't see any resemblance of that anymore.

You just have to be more open and accept what the people like. You can' control it, so get over it. All you can do is make a change. DND, like I said, are doing what they do best.

I don't know about you, but I listen to podcasts to enjoy and have a good hearty laugh, not to criticize every little thing and put it down. You need to chill out and just relax.

Famous Mortimer

May 11th, 2005, 09:15 AM

I always thought people were supposed to share my opinions fully. But now I know otherwise. Then how come you aren't accepting what other people have to say? You said yourself that you're happy to be proved wrong, but I don't see any resemblance of that anymore.
That was a joke. I'm sorry you didn't spot it.

If you didn't like it, don't bother flaming them because there's no point
You'll have to point out to me where I flamed anyone. Or are people so touchy that merely saying you don't like something is now flaming it?

I don't know about you, but I listen to podcasts to enjoy and have a good hearty laugh, not to criticize every little thing and put it down
But the first thing you quoted was me listing the shows I did like. Why are people so afraid of the slighest bit of criticism? I'm sure Dawn and Drew don't care in the slightest what I think, so why do you?

boo&amanda

May 11th, 2005, 09:24 AM

You'll have to point out to me where I flamed anyone. Or are people so touchy that merely saying you don't like something is now flaming it?

That was in general, directed to whoever would read the post.

But the first thing you quoted was me listing the shows I did like. Why are people so afraid of the slighest bit of criticism? I'm sure Dawn and Drew don't care in the slightest what I think, so why do you?

I quoted your whole first post, in case you didn't notice, not just the shows. I'm not afraid of criticism, that's not what I meant when I said that podcasting wasn't about criticizing anything. I meant that you don't have to be so critical about.. Well, anything really. Again, I am giving my own opinions and thoughts, just like yourself.

If you're so sure that they don't care, why bother? It seems so directed at them and/or their audience, especailly because of your title. I care because I want to pitch in with what I have to say and because I am a big fan of the DND show. Besides, you said it yourself.

If it was just "Hey, I like show X", then someone else saying "yes, I agree" I don't think many people would visit here.

yaz

May 11th, 2005, 01:20 PM

yaz

May 11th, 2005, 01:23 PM

drew

May 11th, 2005, 01:31 PM

The fact is, faking a sex act was a smart thing to do, because it was a stunt to get votes which also generated a lot of buzz.

exactly, fake, just like everything involving their show, yet people still listen...

there's only been a couple of things in the 50+ hours we have available that were fake, and we admit them. but if you know so much about our show, then you must also be a listener. thanks!

yaz

May 11th, 2005, 02:13 PM

don't honor yourself, i listened once and was confused what the hub bub was about...

drew

May 11th, 2005, 02:25 PM

don't honor yourself, i listened once and was confused what the hub bub was about...

proves my point. how can you possibly know that anything/everything we do is fake?

WyethDigital

May 11th, 2005, 02:47 PM

But the market also brought us Fox TV, Brittany Spears, Budweiser, and "managed care." But that doesn't make these things good.

If god doesn't help you, Eric, I'll send you emails taunting you will my liberal ideology. And some British rap music. :wink:

Of course you'reright about all those things... I think it was a moment of weakness.

As for the liberal ideology, then I'd guess we would probably agree on a lot. Well, maybe not British rap :D I also espouse a liberal philosophy.

Eric

spaz

May 11th, 2005, 02:50 PM

you'd prob like canada then....we're led by the Liberal party...
but the marketing is still targeted at the lowest common denominator...

bramley

May 11th, 2005, 03:32 PM

you'd prob like canada then....we're led by the Liberal party...

Yeah, but didn't you guys put up that wall along your southern border sometime about November? :wink: I'm trying. I'm trying. But that whole "we hire Canadians first" makes getting even a university position hard. Thought I'd be one of those free-loading welfare state types coming north to teach at UT and take your free healthcare.

As for the liberal ideology, then I'd guess we would probably agree on a lot. Well, maybe not British rap Very Happy I also espouse a liberal philosophy.

God love Wisconsin. Maybe I'll just go there instead. You're not in the People's Republic of Madison are you? I'm glad to hear this laissez faire was only a moment of weakness.

But I digress. We were busy criticizing each other's taste, weren't we?

dcolanduno

May 11th, 2005, 03:58 PM

Wow,

It's just amazing that beating on D&D has more posts and peoples hackles up than the 'Boycott Podshow' thread.

Maybe THIS is why they don't come to our party here too often anymore.

D.

WyethDigital

May 11th, 2005, 04:13 PM

you'd prob like canada then....we're led by the Liberal party...
but the marketing is still targeted at the lowest common denominator...

I've been to Canada. Nice place. Like us, you need to do a better job with treating the natives equitably, but I'd still hang my there. Actually, I prefer canoeing in the Quetico Park area to hanging my hat (whatever I meant by that).

As for the marketing, I can only assume you're talking about DnD's fake sex act. That was one time. They've done a lot more unique and smart things since then (I think I listed a few of the ones that impressed me the most a few pages back). For instance, I don't think setting up a forum for their fans is a "lowest common denominator" kind of idea. Contests certainly aren't!

You guys can choose to bash all you want, but honestly, doing it blindly could be to your own detriment (you might miss a good idea).

Eric

WyethDigital

May 11th, 2005, 04:14 PM

WyethDigital

May 11th, 2005, 04:20 PM

God love Wisconsin. Maybe I'll just go there instead. You're not in the People's Republic of Madison are you?

Yes, Comrade, the People's Republic of Madison (via North Central Wisconsin).
As for the University, I do believe I just heard about a prof out on his ear for child porn... But that was in Ag Sciences. In any case, there may be an opening. How do you feel about cows?

But I digress. We were busy criticizing each other's taste, weren't we?

Yes, you were fan-boying British rappers, and I was endorsing fake orgasms in Podcasts. Sounds like we're about equal for taste-crimes if you ask me :P

Eric

spaz

May 11th, 2005, 04:20 PM

you'd prob like canada then....we're led by the Liberal party...
but the marketing is still targeted at the lowest common denominator...

I've been to Canada. Nice place. Like us, you need to do a better job with treating the natives equitably, but I'd still hang my there....

As for the marketing, I can only assume you're talking about DnD's fake sex act. That was one time. They've done a lot more unique and smart things since then (I think I listed a few of the ones that impressed me the most a few pages back). For instance, I don't think setting up a forum for their fans is a "lowest common denominator" kind of idea. Contests certainly aren't!

You guys can choose to bash all you want, but honestly, doing it blindly could be to your own detriment (you might miss a good idea).

Eric

As for treating natives better, I couldn't agree more, I spend much of my free time working with an organization for urban first nations...
re: lowest common denominator...I wasn't clear enough..not bashing dnd...just commenting on the general state of media....thinking of paris hilton, too many movies, tv, etc....

WyethDigital

May 11th, 2005, 04:22 PM

As for treating natives better, I couldn't agree more, I spend much of my free time working with an organization for urban first nations...
re: lowest common denominator...I wasn't clear enough..not bashing dnd...just commenting on the general state of media....thinking of paris hilton, too many movies, tv, etc....

Nope! My bad! I should have asked for clarification before whipping out the ol' Soap Box! I get what you're saying! I agree, too (except being liberal, I don't like censorship)!

Eric

xtffx

May 11th, 2005, 06:01 PM

My original point should, I guess, have been "why do people think they're the top rated show?".

Ah-ha! Now, that's a good question.

My guesses: They got started when there weren't many shows available, which gave them a good headstart. They're reasonably intelligent and articulate people. And they have their tongues firmly up ... er, they're good pals with Adam Curry. :)

drew

May 11th, 2005, 06:06 PM

xtffx

May 11th, 2005, 06:16 PM

don't forget the top 10 gets reset every month... so the fact that we're friends with adam curry or that we had a "head start" has nothing to do with it. i know a few other shows that meet that criteria that aren't in the top 10.

The Curry remark was just me being a snart ***.

You really don't think your early entry in to podcasting isn't a big part of your popularity? After all, it's easier to find one person in a crowd of ten than it is one person in a crowd of one thousand. Of course an early pioneer is going to be better known than a newbie. Of course it's going to take a newbie longer comparitively to generate an audience since there are more shows to choose from, and thus new podcasts tend to be lost in the crowd initially.

Version3

May 11th, 2005, 06:25 PM

With all due respect to Drew (because it could look like I'm starting to say he's got easy success), I'm sure that the pioneer, early in factor contributes... but many people are blaming it alone for the success of the show. I'd say it was more beneficial to early success, but ultimately listeners are listeners, and their show grows more from word of mouth than it does from being a pioneer.

Being at the top of the 10 helps too, but they don't get there by being around or by how many listeners they have, it's by listeners that take the time to vote for them month after month. I'd almost pay good money for that kind of listener dedication. I'm with the 'good for them' group this time.

Scorpio Moon

May 11th, 2005, 07:13 PM

Wow,

It's just amazing that beating on D&D has more posts and peoples hackles up than the 'Boycott Podshow' thread.

Maybe THIS is why they don't come to our party here too often anymore.

Um, are you not paying to this thread? Drew is all over it. The guy obviously comes to this forum and, rather than contributing or helping anyone, only posts when he has an agenda.

but many people are blaming it alone for the success of the show.

Not "many" people. Only me. And while you have a valid point--a loyal listener base is not formed on early success alone--I still say many people listen to D&D for two reasons.

One, Adam told them to. Remember that whole thing with the dogs who needed to get from Texas back to Britian? Adam told everyone to donate and over $10K was raised. Can you not see how much influence he has?

And two, people listen because everyone else is, apparently, doing it. Who wants to miss out on what's trendy in the moment?

I wholeheartedly believe no one listned because they seriously believe the show has any merit or quality. And just wait. Other, independent shows will emerge and D&D and anyone associated with PodShow, will eventually be forgotten.

Enjoy your 15 minutes, Drew!

(And please, don't take my criticism personally. I have nothing against you. It's your crapfest podcsat I abhor. But look at it this way, at least you have some new material for your next show. You won't have to spend the whole time talking about Adam Curry next time!)

Scorpio Moon

May 11th, 2005, 07:31 PM

I have one final thing to express before I stop bombarding you guys with my dislike of D&D.

I took a second look through this thread and noticed the person who does the Eat Feed podcast posted a bit ago.

Have you guys ever listened to that podcast? Oh my gosh! You can just tell there is so much work, research, time, energy and care that goes into that show. I'm not even all that interested in cooking, but I listened to many of the archived shows because I was in awe of how dedicated this podcaster is. And, the cool thing was, I actually LEARNED something--took something of value away from the time I devoted to the show.

This is the kind of show that deserves recognition. This is the kind of show that deserves high ranking on Podcast Alley.

But noooo...instead the general public gets introduced to podcasting via a show done by two ex-gutter punks who think putting a condom over a microphone is pure comic genius.

That's what infuriates me.

Thanks for being so tolerant of my opinions.

WyethDigital

May 11th, 2005, 07:35 PM

Enjoy your 15 minutes, Drew!

(And please, don't take my criticism personally. I have nothing against you. It's your crapfest podcsat I abhor. But look at it this way, at least you have some new material for your next show. You won't have to spend the whole time talking about Adam Curry next time!)

Ah, Scorpio Moon, the venom in your stinger bites like toothless lady! :P

How's someone not supposed to take constant attacks (not just from you) personally? Yeesh!

Also, they don't just talk about Adam Curry. Sometimes they do questionable acts with a Jaw Harp ;)

Eric

bramley

May 11th, 2005, 07:48 PM

Scorpio Moon, I love you. And Eric, I do love cows. But neither of these things in the Biblical sense. I would take that job at Madison if part of what I got to do was make that ice cream the Ag dept. manufactures. Mmmmm. (Where is the "yummy" emoticon?)

Now let me just say that I was ready to give up the forum here today because I was attacked for no good reason and insulted by the Ian at FTL in another thread. Of course, there are many of us who have shared this experience, but it was my first and since I try to be fairly civil, I was ready to chuck it in because there are other forums where I find better company.

But Scorpio Moon, you have just made me the happiest podcaster out there, and if I hadn't come back, I would have missed it. Really, seriously, praise is nice, but what keeps me going, what makes me really happy is when folks recognize the work that goes into Eat Feed.

And, the cool thing was, I actually LEARNED something

And this is my favorite. I realize that isn't everyone goal with making or listening to podcasts, but I appreciate when our efforts are acknowledged.

So, you voted for me, right?

WyethDigital

May 11th, 2005, 07:49 PM

I have no doubt Eat Feed is an awesome Podcast. And I plan on giving it a whirl. And there are many deserving Podcasts that are not in the Top 10. No argument.

But why does something always have to be educational. I spend a lot of time trying to keep up with specs for new equipment that my company needs, and many other things. The reason I listen to Dawn and Drew is because I can just "unplug" with them. And despite what some think, that has value (to me).

The pace is conversational, and I can always count on being grossed out or shocked. In a way, I think their appeal is probably similar to that of Howard Stern. I don't listen to him because I frankly feel he's mean spirited and exploitational. DnD are not mean in a serious way (despite Dawn's "diva" schtick), and they have fun doing it.

Not saying that DnD are on the same par, but did anyone complain that Seinfeld's show was "A show about nothing?" Why can't a Podcast hold that same appeal?

Get over yourselves already!

Eric

WyethDigital

May 11th, 2005, 07:56 PM

Scorpio Moon, I love you. And Eric, I do love cows. But neither of these things in the Biblical sense.

Nobody's perfect! Just kidding!

Now let me just say that I was ready to give up the forum here today because I was attacked for no good reason and insulted by the Ian at FTL in another thread. Of course, there are many of us who have shared this experience, but it was my first and since I try to be fairly civil, I was ready to chuck it in because there are other forums where I find better company.

:roll: Yeah, he's piece of...er.. work! That's for sure! So what label did you get branded with? Commie? Socialist? Both? I've been branded both (by Ian). If his rants weren't always the same, it would almost be fun to plant a few bees in his bonnet! I especially like his "Democracy Sucks" rant. I didn't know if I should laugh or cry!

Empathatically,

Eric

bramley

May 11th, 2005, 08:01 PM

Wait, Eric. The thread changed to "Why You Should All Listen to Eat Feed." Keep up. :wink:

Actually, ok give it a whirl, but don't start on Cinco de Mayo. You won't unplug there. Try Feeding the Celtic Tiger. Aaah. That accent just lulls me to sleep. You could try Beyond Cheeseheads -- because you definitely wouldn't learn anything there since I imagine you know it all already.

I agree, not all podcasts are for learning. But I do like a bit of bite with my brainless. Simulacrum is my new fav. Lots of work. Lots of art. Totally funny. I unplug with Croncast as well. And The Peanut Gallery. These stories are so much more brilliant than This American Life. Now there's my 2cents.

That's for sure! So what label did you get branded with? Commie? Socialist? Both?

Actually just plain old "pathetic". A nice umbrella term.

Just Some Dude

May 11th, 2005, 10:47 PM

I've been lurking here for a while, but now I think I want to put in my 2 yuan. I'm stuck working overseas for the last 2 years and have been dying for some western culture so when I first started hearing about podcasting I figured I would give it a shot.

When I first started listening to podcasts I came to the ally here and downloaded the top 10. DnD were in there and I enjoyed them. I still do, however, over the last few weeks I have discovered many more shows that don't even show up on the radar here, like The Real Happy Hour, which is a riot!!

I'm not going to knock DnD, they do their own thing, but for me it is as if my taste in what I choose to listen to has matured. I look for more podcasts that have more content and less talk about podcasts or less talk about the podcasters. There are so many shows like DnD out there now. Some or worse and some are better. I guess it's just a matter of personal taste.

That said, I can't figure out for the life of me why DnD are always in the top 5. It's a good show, it's just not that good. It's far from origional, it's not creative, the content is lame and it's starting to get rather boring.

There are so many other casts out there with origional content and interesting people. The top 100 list here doesn't represent the best of podcasting, though I see TWiT creeping up there.

-Dude

boo&amanda

May 11th, 2005, 10:47 PM

But why does something always have to be educational. ...The reason I listen to Dawn and Drew is because I can just "unplug" with them. And despite what some think, that has value (to me).

As do I! You really took the **** out of my mouth. Thank ye.

Not saying that DnD are on the same par, but did anyone complain that Seinfeld's show was "A show about nothing?" Why can't a Podcast hold that same appeal?

Get over yourselves already!

Eric

Thank you! This is absolutely what I was trying to explain to Famous Mortimer. Sort of.

spaz

May 12th, 2005, 12:07 AM

Scorpio Moon

May 12th, 2005, 01:22 AM

but for me it is as if my taste in what I choose to listen to has matured. I look for more podcasts that have more content and less talk about podcasts or less talk about the podcasters. There are so many shows like DnD out there now. Some or worse and some are better. I guess it's just a matter of personal taste.

Excellent! Well put!

That said, I can't figure out for the life of me why DnD are always in the top 5. It's a good show, it's just not that good. It's far from origional, it's not creative, the content is lame and it's starting to get rather boring.

EXACTLY!

P.S: Isn't exciting to see the old TSS hosts back and people embracing them in droves? I am so glad they are back.

....I checked out your show, and have to say, I love it....

Isn't Eat Feed awesome?

I have no idea how much work and preparation goes into the shows that simply have two people talking to each other, but I do know how much work it takes to do research, contact people for interviews, coordinate interviews and then, finally, produce the show itself. When I listen to Eat Feed, I hear a labor of love, not someone podcasting simply because they want attention or an ego boost.

bramley: I absolutely have voted, and left a comment, for your show. I have also recommended the show to others. All the praise I bestow upon you is well deserved.

yaz

May 12th, 2005, 02:57 AM

still sucks...

boo&amanda

May 12th, 2005, 06:46 AM

I have no idea how much work and preparation goes into the shows that simply have two people talking to each other, but I do know how much work it takes to do research, contact people for interviews, coordinate interviews and then, finally, produce the show itself. When I listen to Eat Feed, I hear a labor of love, not someone podcasting simply because they want attention or an ego boost.

I listened to Eat Feed and it was very informative, and I myself can see how much work is put into it, but you should also consider that DND, or any other show you may classify "not as hard working as EatFeed" may not want to work as hard or work at all. It could just be a hobby, a way to express themselves to the public, anything. Eat Feed is an amazingly prepared podcast, but that's how she wants it and that's what she wants to do with it. She wants to give you all this information and make sure it's complete and she wants to work hard for it. Simply because they don't work hard doesn't mean they just want attention or an ego boost.

But in the end, what's the point? I suppose us debating this is worthwhile for each other, but I highly doubt we can change all of podcasting with our opinions and views. Everybody's different.

WyethDigital

May 12th, 2005, 10:45 AM

Wait, Eric. The thread changed to "Why You Should All Listen to Eat Feed." Keep up. :wink:

Sorry about that! I have been a baaad poster ;)

I agree, not all podcasts are for learning. But I do like a bit of bite with my brainless. Simulacrum is my new fav. Lots of work. Lots of art. Totally funny. I unplug with Croncast as well. And The Peanut Gallery. These stories are so much more brilliant than This American Life. Now there's my 2cents.

Oh! Don't get me wrong! I don't just listen to airy, fluffy stuff. DnD are pretty much the only ones in that category (conversational, with intent to gross you out), and they do it well. But I also very much enjoy smart, professional sounding Podcasts. If I were to do one, that is the kind of thing I lean towards producing myself. That's why I listen to shows like "This and That with Jeff and Pat." Or the Maccast, or any number of others.

But just because DnD put together a show that doesn't contribute much to the general IQ of the world (I was absolutely aghast that they didn't remember that Jane Goodall was killed by poachers), it doesn't mean that they don't market their show well, or meet their mission.

Actually just plain old "pathetic". A nice umbrella term.
:roll: Wow! Ian must be losing his edge. Must have had an off night. You can usually expect a quote-within-quote tirade that takes up a screen or two. I must of tired him out in our last exchange! :D

Eric

jeffoest

May 12th, 2005, 03:46 PM

That's why I listen to shows like "This and That with Jeff and Pat." Or the Maccast, or any number of others.

Thanks for the plug Eric! We'll try to keep the 'casts somewhat intelligent...

(note to self: take fart jokes off the planned notes for this week's show)

WyethDigital

May 12th, 2005, 03:56 PM

Thanks for the plug Eric! We'll try to keep the 'casts somewhat intelligent...

(note to self: take fart jokes off the planned notes for this week's show)

:o Wait a minute! You do fart jokes?!? That is so freakin' awesome! I do farts! Wow!

Seriously though, the plug is well deserved!

Worshipfully,

Eric

dissident

May 23rd, 2005, 07:26 PM

I'd say the reason DnD have achieved their current popularity has to do with several factors;

First up, they WERE early to the party, and that can't be underestimated, but equally, it is not a defining explanation.

Second, they understood how to build a relationship with THEIR audience, and they set about doing that very well. Check their site for evidence. A lot of people relate to them, and those people consistently vote for the show, and interact with it via mail/voice/forum.

Third, Adam promoted it a LOT! But he also promoted other shows that didn't 'stick' as well. DnD 'stuck' because they didn't sound like anything else around at the time, they had the right sound and feel for the moment, and they provided a great media angle for early press stories.

Finally they put a LOT of work into it, and it paid off.

There will always be other shows that are not currently getting the recognition/kudos/cash(!) that they feel they deserve. That's just the way life is. Mozart was buried in a paupers grave, and Van Gough never sold a painting. Get used to your genius being unrecognized! Especially if you REALLY are a genius. :D

If you rely on the general public to be able to wade through all the podcasts now out there to find YOU, you're probably on a hiding to nothing. Especially as it's not that easy for non-tech folk to find what they're looking for right now.

Personally, I think that as the tools and the medium evolve, we will all find an audience that wants to listen to us. That audience, (the ones who come back for more), and can genuinely relate to what our show is about, are the ones to look for.

JohnB (dissidentvox)

http://dissidentvox.blogware.com/

tominbkk

Jun 4th, 2005, 09:42 PM

but even with the shows you mention here, if you want to hear some edgey stuff, I found a show called "The Real Happy Hour" that has me hooked. I think it's the funniest thing I've found on any directory so far.

But only three shows to thier name.......I will download one and listen though.....

tominbkk

Jun 4th, 2005, 09:57 PM

[quote]

My impression of D&D:

Drew: Hi everyone!

That's not fair at all. They have their catch phrases, so what? If I want to listen to a podcast that is compeltely different every time I hear an episode, I wouldn't be listening to D&D. They tell what's up with their lives, and always have different stories to tell, in a predictable, funny, secure delivery manner. That's why I like them....that, and thier chemistry make the them fun to listen to. Someone mentioned PK&J as equal to them......they have a different chemistry (IMO) on their podcast. So some may like them more, some may not.

I think the reasoning that since D&D are pioneers they automaticially are on the top is a lame one. If they weren't attractive to people in some way, people would unsubscribe, I'm sure of that. they have a nice pull to their show, and I enjoy them very much. Madge too, for that matter. Is it a sin to like something that is popular? I listen to plenty of off the wall casts too, so what's the point?

In the end, I think that the dead horse image wasn't the right one for Scorpio......this one seems more appropriate:

http://www.animalrightsmalta.com/sourgrapes1.gif

macguys

Jun 18th, 2005, 08:45 AM

My first PAF posting. Woo hoo! Dawn and Drew rock. They have great audio. Their server pumps out their stuff quickly, and they totally get marketing. In fact, looking at their use of push and pull is a great lesson for others who wish to succeed in this media.

They are also cute as wet puppies on green grass.

Dave

UncleDan

Jun 25th, 2005, 12:35 PM

sydbarrett

Jun 25th, 2005, 01:06 PM

SEX

Dawn's faux orgasm at the top of every show......shes that "dyed hair....alternative hot" thing. She talks about her vagina a lot. Its titilating for a while-but it does get self-indulgent.

My personal faves are The daily download, and Yeast Radio.

DD because it is sooooooooo outragious, and Yeast becvause Madge has such a magnetic personality.

Dawn and Drew Show is an institution, the Icon of podcasting.
DO NOT PUT THEM DOWN!

anyway...Regina is a very nice place to visit.

Later...podPeople of the Alley

Jun 25th, 2005, 05:53 PM

I like Dawn and Drew, but their show is a little overrated I think. Occasionally they make me laugh.

My favorite 2 person comedy/talk podcast is Keith and the Girl. They put out an hour show every weekday that is actually very entertaining. I have actually laughed out loud.

The only other shows that have made me do that is The Starkcast and the Distorted view.

obtuseangle

Jun 27th, 2005, 05:23 PM

First of all, Distorted View rules.

I've only listened to D&D a few times, and I'd compare it to your average sitcom ... for argument's sake, let's say Everybody Loves Raymond. Lots of people love it, and I might chuckle once or twice during an episode, but at the end I feel like I want that half-hour of my life back (which is why I only watched a few episodes of that, too).

D&D doesn't deliver much creativity and wit in my opinion -- like a Distorted View, like Air Ferg, etc. -- it just IS. Plus, I know too many people like them already ... from Wisconsin no less.

Steve
The Obtuse Angle

Just Some Dude

Jul 12th, 2005, 01:45 AM

D&D may be an institution, but that doesn't mean they are good. The Wright brothers are an institution, but I wouldn't want them to design any plane I'm flying in.

I use to listen to D&D, but as newer casts came out I found better ones to listen too, like Keith and the Girl and The Real Happy Hour.

coreytronic

Jul 12th, 2005, 02:16 AM

I am shocked and appalled that this thread is still running. Of course I'm also shocked and appalled by D and D's pathetic attempts at humor, so go figure. Really gang, fighting over who's got the biggest votes is like a group of midgets arguing over who has the best sky hook. It's sad, tawdry and utterly devoid of dignity. Freaking losers!!
Now please just calm down and go vote for us.

InformerandSnitch

Jul 12th, 2005, 03:56 AM

Check out our episode 8. It will give you all a good idea of what us Squirrels think of the Dawn and Drew.

http://informerandsnitch.com/mp3/2005-07-8a.mp3

drew

Jul 12th, 2005, 08:27 AM

the real humor is that a thread about us not being very good goes 8 pages deep. now that's funny!

sydbarrett

Jul 12th, 2005, 09:05 AM

the real humor is that a thread about us not being very good goes 8 pages deep. now that's funny!

omg omg omg
down from the mountain to speakth to usth

WE ARE NOT WORTHY, WE ARE NOT WORTHY
praise the lord, praise the lord

funny, thread was dead until the holy one piped in

God how desperate for votes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Such an obvious need for this podcast alley voting crap

And some day we may all say with confidence
that podcasting is
just a little better than radio
we are so close....with help of Steve Jobs

p.s. hope my post will help your desperate need for numero uno status
D & D!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Zany Aguirre

Jul 12th, 2005, 11:38 AM

Wow

You're a sad bunch.

docsnavely

Jul 13th, 2005, 03:25 AM

Wow

You're a sad bunch.

Amen!

jimk

Jul 13th, 2005, 04:01 AM

You know what's worse than proclaiming to have all the answers when you know almost nothing about a given subject?

Tall poppy syndrome. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_poppy_syndrome)

If you want to rail against someone who is actually *doing* something you consider wrong (or *not* doing soemthing you think they should)...well, derr, that's totally cool. But to rag on someone who is just doing their thing and succeeding? Tall Poppy Syndrome.

I'll take D&D's audience numbers in a heartbeat and let all the haters hate.

cam

Jul 13th, 2005, 04:48 AM

Just my two cents, i did not find the dawn and drew show funny at all...

BTW

http://cammm.net/tmp/arguing.jpg

Shout out to Corey and Joel, keep up the good work boys - its good to see atleast some people have proper comedic talent. You should stop wasting your time with these idiots on here and focus on producing a quality podcast =-)

(yes i have voted)

docsnavely

Jul 14th, 2005, 08:37 AM

that's about the 20th time i've seen that poor kid, and every time, i laugh my *** off......

joelthecomic

Jul 15th, 2005, 02:51 AM

Just my two cents, i did not find the dawn and drew show funny at all...

BTW
Shout out to Corey and Joel, keep up the good work boys - its good to see atleast some people have proper comedic talent. You should stop wasting your time with these idiots on here and focus on producing a quality podcast =-)

(yes i have voted)

Now you're talkin, Cam!

Corey and Joel - #1 in the penal colony..............

dcolanduno

Jul 15th, 2005, 08:39 PM

The interesting sidenote has to be that they don't come here and participate anymore in the community.

They seem to just hang out on thier own forum, and continue to get new listeners from being in the top 3-4 here each month. Kind of disheartening in a way, from a 'like them' standpoint.

i don't participate here anymore because of threads like this. i wish it wasn't so. but like i've always said, our show is not for everyone and we love our listeners.

Yea, I completely understand.

I meant that in the way you just stated. That it is sad that folks have made it hard for some of the more popular hosts and producers of podcasts due to issues that have little to do with the actual people and more to do with their personal bias against the content of the show, or any popularity or marketing/public image they have.

Basically... makes ya miss the good old days when some of the folks like yourself could just come and hang out most everywhere and feel 'safe' from the personal or crappy attacks.

yaz

Jul 18th, 2005, 02:56 AM

****in uncredible, i haven't been on here in like over two months and this topic is still hot, i wonder why...

gazsoup

Jul 18th, 2005, 07:39 PM

Jul 18th, 2005, 09:20 PM

I love the show â€“ it is one of my regular listens. I can understand that the show is not for everyone but the intensity of negative feedback is strange (my guess is that itâ€™s driven by jealously of their popularity).

It's not the most amazing show, but I agree with you in thinking that most of the negativity towards Dawn and Drew is probably just sour grapes. I'm certain almost everyone who visits or posts to podcast alley has listened to a few of their shows. But the "cool kids" like to pretend that they never listen to Dawn and Drew. :)

feelgoodgirl

Jul 20th, 2005, 05:25 AM

It's not the most amazing show, but I agree with you in thinking that most of the negativity towards Dawn and Drew is probably just sour grapes. I'm certain almost everyone who visits or posts to podcast alley has listened to a few of their shows. But the "cool kids" like to pretend that they never listen to Dawn and Drew. :)

I will swear up and down on my momma's grave I have never listened to an episode of Dawn and Drew. I have so many podcasts that I actually *want* to listen to, all cued up and backlogged...I don't have anything against D&D, it just didn't sound interesting to me, that's all.

So now I'm even more determined to remain a "Dawn and Drew virgin" just because I'm *expected* to listen. Heheh. ;-)

yaz

Jul 24th, 2005, 01:00 AM

hahahaha...over 5200 views of this topic...am i back?...maybe...

Hittman

Jul 24th, 2005, 08:55 AM

I listen to lots of podcasts once, decide I don't like 'em, and move on. Sometimes they're truly horrible, sometimes they're well done but just don't appeal to me. Couples casts in general bore me, and theirs is no exception.

So what? No one forces anyone to listen to anything, and if half the audience thinks they're wonderful, then congratulations for their success and I'll buy them a beer if we ever meet. The little that I have listened was enough to hear that they weren't a bad show, there's nothing wrong with it, so why bitch and moan about it? I think you're all correct â€“ it's mostly sour grapes.

tWW

Jul 27th, 2005, 02:01 PM

HERE HERE HITTMAN!!

Variety... Freedom... Something for everyone:
This is what it's all about!

Find the shows you DO like, and enjoy them :)
No shortage to chose from!

Cheers,
-tWW

cybercooler

Jul 27th, 2005, 04:25 PM

First of all, like many of you D&D was one of the first shows I listened to, and continue to subscribe to the show. However, part of the reason I think they are SO successful is what I call the "Uncle Milty" effect. Milton Berle was HUGELY Popular in the 50's when TV was first on the scene because he was up against the test pattern (that and its rumored he had a huge unit). Now before you think I'm bashing D&D I'm not. I constantly look for Precious the squirrel.

However, what they got by being pioneers is word of mouth. People were talking about their show (because it's funny) and because there wasn't much else to talk about. The fun thing to watch will be the continued success of the pioneers. After all, even Mash, Seinfeld, Raymond, Frasier, Friends, Happy Days eventually hit a rating slump. I'm wondering now that they are part of Podshow (and I believe required to do 3 shows a week) if all you do is podcast, what will the show be about? The fun you had editing podcast #157? Part of the "magic" of D&D is their activities and comments on what they do.

It is weird to have a post about "funny" as it is so wide open. I mean take Andy Coffman (spelling?) some consider him a genius. I never got the guy.

kickasspodcast

Jul 27th, 2005, 04:34 PM

<sarcasm>So I know you are all dying to hear my opinion on this right? </sarcasm>

GET A FRIGGIN LIFE AND LEAVE DAWN AND DREW ALONE!!!!

That pretty much sum's it up.
If you don't like dawn and drew- DON"T LISTEN! Imagine that!

Jack B.
(speaking for fosco on this one too)

jeffoest

Jul 27th, 2005, 04:39 PM

Email recieved

(....popping in quickly...)

Actually, it makes cracks me up when I get an email from this thread informing of an update. My email reader simply says new message: "Dawn and Drew not all that good".... lol - i don't know why it makes me laugh - partyly because it's such an old thread, partly because it's so silly (oooohh, they're not that good? huh... )

Poor Dawn and Drew - it would suck to have a thread this long about our podcast but they are doing just fine. Be well Dawn and Drew - ignore us and this thread!

(...popping out, back to spreadsheets and project plans...)

drew

Jul 27th, 2005, 04:42 PM

Poor Dawn and Drew - it would suck to have a thread this long about our podcast but they are doing just fine. Be well Dawn and Drew - ignore us and this thread!

keeps us on the home page at least.
oh wait... we're #2 ;)

thanks to all those that support us.
to those that hate... lick it.

Famous Mortimer

Aug 7th, 2005, 05:12 PM

I meant that in the way you just stated. That it is sad that folks have made it hard for some of the more popular hosts and producers of podcasts due to issues that have little to do with the actual people and more to do with their personal bias against the content of the show, or any popularity or marketing/public image they have.

Basically... makes ya miss the good old days when some of the folks like yourself could just come and hang out most everywhere and feel 'safe' from the personal or crappy attacks.
By personal bias, do you mean not liking it? I'm biased against the content of shows that aren't very good. I've tried it a few times in the hope I was wrong the first time and still didn't like it, but I have absolutely no bias other than on quality.

And the last paragraph, should people hold back their opinions just because you miss people posting in this forum? Please.

bazookajoeshow

Aug 7th, 2005, 05:15 PM

What? This thread is still going on?

jameskemp

Aug 7th, 2005, 05:50 PM

Yeah, tell you what. IM me and let me know the name of your show, then I'll start a forum topic like: "(insert your show here) Sucks!" Then we can rake in the dough from GoogleAds. You agree of course to split it with me, right?

Buzz is buzz. Come get some.

charleyw

Aug 8th, 2005, 12:37 AM

Okay, time for my little contribution to make this the longest thread in history.

This whole discussion amazes me for a couple reasons. #1, because I keep returning to it and actually read it. And #2, it reminds me of the days when I was doing stand-up comedy in the States.

I didn't like Andrew Dice Clay. I thought he was ruining true standup, and I couldn't understand the attraction. But you know what? He sold out Madison Square Garden. I'm not selling out Madison Square Garden. I'm selling out Zanie's in Chicago. And you know what? I was really happy about selling out Zanies in Chicago. So, as long as I stayed focused on what was going on with ME, instead of obsessing on what was going on with other people, life was a lot easier.

Charley