Attention TheFerf: Vote Fraud

[Ian]

It has been brought to my attention that one of our... enthusiastic listeners has claimed he spoofed 25 votes. He made the claim at around 4:07 AM EST this morning on our BBS.

Please examine your logs (I would guess from around that time or slightly earlier), and if you find evidence that this is true, please remove the spoofed votes. I will be happy to provide his IP that he posted the message from this morning.

If you do remove the votes, please also remove the comment that alleges vote fraud from my comments page, as the problem will have been rectified. It is called "FTL voters cheat?" by "biotek".

FTL wants to do their part to help keep the voting clean.

Regards,
Ian

[Ian]

We have requested a list of the email addresses he used. This should make the process much easier for you, Ferf.

Here is the thread in question:
http://bbs.freetalklive.com/index.php?topic=1275.0

[tocard]

Hopefully he will provide that list quickly so that we can expediate their removal from the PCA database.

[allthewhile]

i'm glad to see your honesty!

[Ian]

Honesty is the best policy. FTL has always been on the up and up, despite what the haters think.

[RevTim]

So, how can the voting work better? We all want our listeners to come here and vote, and I think this site seems to be rising to the top of the sites to visit when it comes to finding out about podcasts.

If people can spoof ip addresses or emails or whatever, it really isn't quite fair to those who are below the top 50. Some of those deserve to be higher and to be included in the list.

Registration could be one way to slow down any voter fraud, but I know my friends who are not as serious or techie as I am wouldn't want to go through the trouble.

Hmmm...

[Ian]

Tim,

No one "deserves" anything. Life isn't fair. We deal with what we've got, and make the best of it.

On top of that, there is no perfect voting system. Even though there was obvious fraud last month, we're all still here podcasting. PCA is the best site because of a variety of reasons, but the voting is key. It's easy, and it's a good system. Let it stand.

The most important thing to realize is that the cheaters will die off eventually. Whether it's the hosts themselves or just a few fans, eventually they will:

Host:
Realize that even though they cheated and are in the top ten, they have virtually no audience because their show is awful. The host then gives up on podcasting, and finds another hobby.

Fan:
Get tired of the show he's been cheating for (considering he's not being compensated, most likely) and stops cheating.

Real, consistent effort is rewarded in the long run. (And it is a LONG run, let me tell you. I've been doing my show for a couple of years, and have yet to turn a profit.) Most of the cheaters are "one pump chumps".

Patience is a virtue.
Ian

[owyn]

Just thought of a hack that might work very well.

I think that voting profiles are more important than pure votes. Cheaters typically only vote for one show. So, let's reward the voter who votes for more than one show. Make each vote count for not just the show he is voting for, but , every show he has voted for allready as well. Vote for 10 different shows, and each of those shows gets 10 votes.

Its a hack, but....

[RevTim]

The most important thing to realize is that the cheaters will die off eventually.

Good point Ian. I also think people who keep their eye on the voting can see the imbalance of votes from those who shoot to the top.

For me, I am proud to accept any votes recieve. Personally, I am still blown away that people will take whatever minutes I present to them each week. It's so fun and cool!

[Ian]

Just thought of a hack that might work very well.

I think that voting profiles are more important than pure votes. Cheaters typically only vote for one show. So, let's reward the voter who votes for more than one show. Make each vote count for not just the show he is voting for, but , every show he has voted for allready as well. Vote for 10 different shows, and each of those shows gets 10 votes.

Its a hack, but....

Sounds like a hack idea.. please leave the voting be. It's functional now, and no one will ever be happy with any changes made.

[dcolanduno]

Well,

If you are going to keep voting, which I'm not sure proves anything...

If you want to keep a one vote per person system, the results should be released at the END of the month, and not shown until all the votes are in. Otherwise you get the snowball effect during the month.

Basically, everyone votes all month, then the results are announced, not announced as the votes come in.

MY perferred system would be a ranking system, similar to how Amazon does thier 'starts' system. Where people rank the p'cast on 2-3 categories, then the overall rating is just based on an average of the category rankings and wieghted by the number of 'reviews' that people have submitted.

D.

[Ian]

dcolanduno,

While the latter suggestion is interesting, the former is bad in my book because it takes away immediate gratification to the voter, removes the sense of urgency and competition, and allows the top dogs to be displayed all month long. Whereas the current system allows newbies to "break out" with a bunch of votes and get some exposure for at least the first few days of the month, even if they are eventually overcome by the "heavies". With the end-of-month system you proposed, the newbies don't have a chance...

[RevTim]

What about adding a top 100 category?

[Ian]

Now, that's not a bad idea. Allow the less popular shows to at least be seen to some extent.

[dcolanduno]

The Top 100 in RSS/XML feed would be great.

Ian, while, in a perfect world I'd agree that it's cool to watch the voting change real time for gratification... I'm not sure I really see it do that too much.

I don't mind the 'popularity' contest version of the voting like it is now. I just think there could be some more 'meaty' version of public reviewing of the p'casts as well.

D.

[kastanaras]

The problem I am finding is the lower ranked or new podcast's don't get that many listeners or atleast people finding out about them because no one ever see's them.

If the newer or lower ranked podcast's can make it to atleast the top50 that would help them out so much.

[theFerf]

Ian:

I appreciate your honesty and what you are doing for podcassting. Im glad you have taken such an interest in it and not just your radio show.

Everyone else (and Ian too):
Im hoping to add some new sorting features in the genres soon so you dont just see eerything based on rank. I want you to be able to sort them by rank, date added, name, downloads, and anything else i can figure out.

it is coming soon, so keep yourpants on.

[yaz]

i think he staged this to make him seem like he's on the up and up...

[Ian]

Ahh, paranoia.

[yaz]

im not paranoid, i could really care less...

paranoia is for potheads anyway...

[audiocollective]

Ian:

I appreciate your honesty and what you are doing for podcassting. Im glad you have taken such an interest in it and not just your radio show.

Everyone else (and Ian too):
Im hoping to add some new sorting features in the genres soon so you dont just see eerything based on rank. I want you to be able to sort them by rank, date added, name, downloads, and anything else i can figure out.

it is coming soon, so keep yourpants on.

that will be so cool!
i cant wait... oh ya, thanks for the shirts.
-dave

[PupuStudios]

I took my pants off hours ago...

[BSquared]

Actually paranoia is far more common in meth-heads than pot-heads yaz.

Do you need an intervention?

[yaz]

there aren't that many meth users around me, they're usually in trailer parks, its mostly potheads around here...and ill tell you, boy are they paranoid...

[Ian]

When 700,000 pot smokers are arrested each year, it's a good idea for them to be paranoid. :cry:

[yaz]

maybe it would be a good idea for them to stop smoking pot...

[Ian]

Nah. It's a much better to end the War on Drugs, and respect people's personal consumption choices.

[spaz]

just imagine the taxes the government could rake in...

[Ian]

End taxes too. Slavery blows.

[ferg]

Nah. It's a much better to end the War on Drugs, and respect people's personal consumption choices.

Here, here.
Not to mention the inconsistencies in drug law.
Sure, sure, have your alcohol and nicotine, but then we draw the line.

I mean, aside the obvious life-giving qualities of alcohol, what's the difference between one drug and the other?

Even if governments didn't tax it, think of the money that would be saved in the courts and in jails for drug-related offenses. Think of the money that American spends "fighting the war on drugs".

That said, I am not a potsmoker, but if I could go to the local store and buy pot, I probably would. My point being that we would see drug use increase.

I dunno. What's this got to do with podcasting?
Podcasting is a drug, that's what.
It is completely consuming.
Is big tobacco behind this?

[yaz]

personal consumption is one thing, but do we really want to have all you drug addicts behind the wheel of a car or operating some kind of heavy machinery? lets all grow up...

[Ian]

That said, I am not a potsmoker, but if I could go to the local store and buy pot, I probably would. My point being that we would see drug use increase.


Studies show this increase is only temporary. In Amsterdam, usage spiked up a bit, then FELL below original levels. Kids there are far less likely to smoke pot than American kids. This is because the "forbidden fruit" aspect goes away, and it's not as "cool" or "dangerous" anymore.

[Ian]

personal consumption is one thing, but do we really want to have all you drug addicts behind the wheel of a car or operating some kind of heavy machinery? lets all grow up...

Got news for you, ace. It happens EVERY DAY ANYWAY! Reckless driving should not be legal, but drugs should.

For the record, pot smokers are statistically better drivers than sober people, since potheads realize they are stoned, and compensate. This is the opposite of the drunk who thinks "I'm cool to drive" after having several drinks.

[Craig]

I dunno. What's this got to do with podcasting?
Podcasting?! It's PODcasting? And after all this time listening to DSC I thought it was potcasting. OK, things are starting to make a lot more sense now.

Craig

[dcolanduno]

Although,

Since Adam has seemingly sold himself on doing everything on PC, particularly TabletPC now...

Is it now, 'WinCasting'?

D.

[ferg]

Although,

Since Adam has seemingly sold himself on doing everything on PC, particularly TabletPC now...

Is it now, 'WinCasting'?

D.

No because you can still use an iPod with a PC.
It's just now qualified as

PodCasting (with a REAL computer)

No need to flame.
My wife will take care of that for you once she reads this.

[dcolanduno]

<sniff>

My powerbook feels all inferior now!

<looks over at his tabletPC as it cackles in glee at your post>

[yaz]

yea, im sure i want a bunch of people on lsd or heroin driving around legally, i know it happens everyday you moron, what do you think? i live under a rock? but the people in this country aren't like the people in the netherlands, those people go, the smoke their joint in the cafe after work and then walk or take public transit home have dinner and goto bed, here the people would be walking around stoned all the ****ing time, we are two very different societies, we are over-consumers here, about everything...

[spaz]

That's a good point, yaz....over here we can barely get people not to drink and drive....

[Ian]

[quote="yaz"]yea, im sure i want a bunch of people on lsd or heroin driving around legally,[quote]

Again, reckless, dangerous driving should be illegal, not being on substances. :!:

[dcolanduno]

Again, reckless, dangerous driving should be illegal, not being on substances.

I'd agree with that Ian. I'm very much against zero-tolerance type laws. Pulling people over because you THINK they are drunk, or checkpoints for DUI screenings are all a little 'Minority Report' thought crime to me.

The law, being a law, has to have firm rules for BAL, (Blood Alch Level), and being such takes no mind for your tolerance level based on height, weight, etc...

So, what you really have is, a revenue stream for the police. It's all 'shrouded' in a safety issue, but, like speeding, it's a revenue engine. (If we REALLY wanted to stop speeding, 'for the children', it would be illegal to buy a car that could go above 70)

[/quote]

[cid92]

For the record, pot smokers are statistically better drivers than sober people, since potheads realize they are stoned, and compensate. This is the opposite of the drunk who thinks "I'm cool to drive" after having several drinks.

Love to see the stats on this. Stoned is stoned. Most older people know they are old and try to compensate for it by driving god-awful slow on the roads and it still doesn't help them. You cannot compensate for diminished motor skills. Nobody is THAT good. Driving 25 in a 55 zone while hunting for a 7-11 to get a bag of Doritos is not compensating for the fact that you cannot react as fast to a potential problem as a sober person can.

[spaz]

I think when driving, personal rights have to take a back seat to public safety.
Being stoned, having a few drinks, being to tired, distracted, etc, are all reasons not to drive....

[WyethDigital]

You know, I've been wondering who Ian's FTL avatar is yelling at on the phone. I'm thinking it's his dealer... :P

:idea: BTW, anyone interested in seeing the tragedy of impaired driving (drugs, alcohol, fatigue, doritos binges) should ride along with an EMS crew or hang out in an ER for a few days. Might enlighten a few of the folks around here...


Eric

[Craig]

For the record, pot smokers are statistically better drivers than sober people, since potheads realize they are stoned, and compensate.
Here's what the Bible has to say about driving and getting stoned:

But with loud cries, and stopping their ears, they made an attack on him all together, driving him out of the town and stoning him. (Acts 7:57,58/BBE, talking about Stephen)

See, much more dangerous than driving and drinking.

Craig

[yaz]

oh c'mon craig, everyone was walkin around chewin on poppy leaves back then, give that a rest, drugs weren't illegal until the usa decided to make them so...

(and im anti-drug use)