Boycot PodShow

[jgreenwald]

If you are as appalled as I am at what we heard in the "StrategyCast," write to the misguided podcasters we all respect who have fallen under the Ron Bloom spell and encourage them to get out while the getting is good. If necessary, reward those who remain independent with your votes and punish those who consort with PodShow by withholding your votes.

Podcasting has a wonderful future. It can truly spawn the rebirth of the radio of the independent, free-form days. Or it can begin to mirror everything we hate about old media.

Dave Winer had a chance to be a part of this (remember those meetings in Florida) and as he said today, he wanted no part of it. Me neither.

[podx]

I thought I heard something about paid subsciption podshows. I wonder if those would also have commercials. If they plan to use microsoft DRM, I also guess that would mean that it wouldn't play on an iPod. I also have heard iriver mentioned and they work with microsoft. Protected drm podcasts at napster to go seems very dark and depressing. :(

[justSue]

If they plan to use microsoft DRM, I also guess that would mean that it wouldn't play on an iPod.

With a name like Podshow, I'm pretty sure the content will be playable on iPods. Unless they only plan on signing on Pod People. Just a guess.

[allthewhile]

Why don't we slow down and just see what happens for a minute. We don't have all the information or know what's going on.

[justSue]

Not even an LOL? Come on... Pod People. That's funny stuff! Golden even!

I agree though. I don't think anyone should comment who hasn't at least listened to the whole strategy cast thing. I'm willing to accept any opinion that shows clear evidence of that.

[wallpaperman]

If you are as appalled as I am at what we heard in the "StrategyCast," [quote]write to the misguided podcasters we all respect who have fallen under the Ron Bloom spell and encourage them to get out while the getting is good. If necessary, reward those who remain independent with your votes and punish those who consort with PodShow by withholding your votes.

So isn't podcastalley part of podshow?

[Marius]

There will almost certainly be drm. Remember the napster style unlimited download model. You can download as many songs as you want and transfer them to a portanble device, but the files are HEAVILY drm'ed. Podshows could definitely be drmed and still work on portable music players. And yes, you heard right. Curry talked about paid subscription for podcasts as well as ads or sponsorship.

[johnandwayneshow]

Not even an LOL? Come on... Pod People. That's funny stuff! Golden even!Golden indeed....come on people! PODPEOPLE! Get it? Tough crowd. :?

[nextgengames]

Sorry if im the positive one in the bunch but one of the things that Adam and Ron have got right with Podshow is that you do need marketers to get to critical mass. The same was true with the Internet and didnt they say anyone can produce and use the podshow service if you dont want tobe part of the profit sharing scheme etc they can just pay a fee to use there infrastructure rather than have adverts.

The one thing which is really needed right now is we all need to work together, we all need to promote podcasting and get people listening maybe not to your own show but something your interested in. Im no expert on whats going on but if your going to boycot podshow may as well add odea and gamescast to that list as well.

I can't say I'd overtly boycott podshow because that's not something I'd do on anything else, but I wouldn't pay a dime to hear Dawn and Drew. As I wrote to Adam Curry, he's had it in his mind from day one that this is about the almighty dollar, and for most of us, it's about doing something we love. Once Adam gets this off the ground, gets it to where he wants it, he'll sell it to the highest bidder and that would likely be some media company and it's not long before podcasting turns into the same mush you hear on traditional radio. I'm not saying he shouldn't have a goal of making money, but he's got the whole concept wrong. People listen to podcasts because they A. Don't want commercials B. Love the content and C. Love hearing something fresh. Once he's locked himself down to specific shows and made it commercial, it's just radio.

If you want to hear what Adam Curry thinks is great, listen to Paris Hilton and you'll see where he wants to take this.

[Dominar]

I'm with you Aaron.

I don't like where this is headed. I only stumbled onto Podcasting a few months ago and I liked the independent nature of it.

When I finally get my cast going I don't want to make a million dollars. I'd settle for unsolicited listener donations and goodies via mail! ;)

Won't be long before ClearChannel owns podcasting.

I won't pay a penny to listen to any podcast. I'm disappointed in DnD since they sold out so fast.

Like I've said in another post if someone drops Adam's name in a cast I've got one foot out the door as a listener.

[jawbone]

Hey guys...remember, Jawbone Radio has the Anti-Adam Curry line. Feel free to leave voice messages of dsgust or support and I'll play them on the show. ;)

206.666.2326. That's 206.6 NO-ADAM. :D

[Dominar]

Hey guys...remember, Jawbone Radio has the Anti-Adam Curry line. Feel free to leave voice messages of dsgust or support and I'll play them on the show. ;)

206.666.2326. That's 206.6 NO-ADAM. :D

I'll have to check it out!

[alissa]

I can't say I'd overtly boycott podshow because that's not something I'd do on anything else, but I wouldn't pay a dime to hear Dawn and Drew. As I wrote to Adam Curry, he's had it in his mind from day one that this is about the almighty dollar, and for most of us, it's about doing something we love. Once Adam gets this off the ground, gets it to where he wants it, he'll sell it to the highest bidder and that would likely be some media company and it's not long before podcasting turns into the same mush you hear on traditional radio. I'm not saying he shouldn't have a goal of making money, but he's got the whole concept wrong. People listen to podcasts because they A. Don't want commercials B. Love the content and C. Love hearing something fresh. Once he's locked himself down to specific shows and made it commercial, it's just radio.

If you want to hear what Adam Curry thinks is great, listen to Paris Hilton and you'll see where he wants to take this.

i totally agree. i do think though that adam curry's model has shown itself to work over and over. it's unfortunate, but it's a reality. everyone has to decide for themselves why they are in this find their own path. personally, i find having my tastes dictated by a souless media company to be pretty unsavory. but then...a lot of people think i'm really weird. i'm okay with it though. there are people out there that appreciate where i'm coming from. just not as many of them.

[theone3]

Is anyone here far enough off-shore that they can get the cast, edit out the ads, and rehost them? :lol: :twisted:

Effective boycott, I'd say.

[jgreenwald]

Podcasting has been such a breath of fresh air precisely because it has resurrected an approach to broadcasting that has almost disappeared: people are creating shows about things they genuinely care about. They are taking risks. They are being honest. It isn’t just about the money or the fame or the chance to meet Paris Hilton. The first podcasts have been acts of love.

When I listen to Brian on Coverville, I know he is doing that show because he loves the music. Brian strikes me as authentic. If he can get some sponsors, I say more power to him because that keeps him afloat. But I honestly do not believe that Brian is doing that show simply because he wants to make a buck. He represents what makes him so different from the Clear Channel mainstream media.

When I listened to Ron Bloom I didn’t hear a love for anything other than making a buck. The former infomercial producer talked about how they were able to pump up a company and then dump it before the 90s tech bubble burst. Is this the leader you want to follow in podcasting? He is not about the love of any particular content. He hasn’t created an authentic, original show that speaks in a special way to listeners.

My message to podacasters is, in the words of Joseph Campbell (look him up Ron Bloom), follow your bliss. Be real. Be honest. You might even make some money along the way. But don’t make it be about the money. And let us actively resist (if you don’t like the word boycott) those for whom this is only about the money.

[kris]

50 bonus points for quoting Joseph Campbell :lol:

[podx]

...When I listened to Ron Bloom I didn’t hear a love for anything other than making a buck. ...


I agree. I'm trying to give them ( curry bloom) the benefit of the doubt but after listening again to their podcast, the bad vibes got worse. I had hoped there would be a bias towards keeping what makes podcasting great right now, and much less towards turning it into a money machine at the expense of what makes the current form of most podcasts so wonderful.

[shofey]

I agree in part to the Ron Bloom discussion. However I think Adam Curry shows the heart for what podcasting is all about daily. Adam Curry is obviouisly the knowledge half of these two gentlemen. Ron Bloom is the money. Blooms goal may be the buck, but I feel Curry will keep the heart of podcasting in place. Thanks

[soccergirl]

Not even an LOL? Come on... Pod People. That's funny stuff! Golden even!Golden indeed....come on people! PODPEOPLE! Get it? Tough crowd. :?

i get it! Podpeople! LOL.

(maybe you should have patented that joke before you made it. AC might get his hands on it before long)

[Scorpio Moon]

I'm not quite clear as to what it is exactly that, as a businessman, Adam Curry has done to quality himself as someone who is going to, not only bring podcasting to the masses, but make his podcasting "family" wealthy enough to do podcsting full-time with everyone having absolute, undying faith in him.

When I used to listen to the DSC, I repeatedly heard Adam talk about failed business dealings--with the failure being someone else's fault and never his. Even his departure from MTV, according to him, was someone else's fault. Also, the guy spoke often of being embroiled in a few lawsuits with former business partners.

Granted, he must have achieved some sort of financial success in some way, but can his judgment be trusted?

Call me anal, but the idea of a guy who seems to have an addiction to pot (he has to smuggle it with him when he travels and he smokes up during nearly every podcast...kind of seems like addiction to me) doesn't exactly win over my confidence.

I don't know a lot about Ron Bloom, but my first impression is that the guy is a total sleaze.

The only show on the PodShow list I listen to is Rock & Roll Geek Show. I'd gladly pay to listen to the show in any other circumstance, but I absolutely will not pay knowing even a cent of my money is going to Adam Curry.

And, I guess, as of now, Podcast Alley is merely an extension of podshow.com with Adam and Ron eventually regulating the content here as well.

I hate to say it, but I think anyone who has gotten involved with Curry/Bloom are total sellouts.

It's kind of funny. Who would have guessed, in less than a year, you now have those involved with podcasting who are sheep following "The Man" while an underground forms made up of those who continue to podcast simply because they love doing it.

[soccergirl]

I think a lot of people "would have thought". Isn't that the way of the world? The capitalist world anyway. But who can blame the podcasters? They love it as much as anyone, and, while I've just started, I can vouch for the fact that it's **** hard to work fulltime AND work full time, if you know what I mean. Still, money or no money, I won't stop doing it, but, money would be nice.

[nextgengames]

Ill continue by here i think by saying :

1. I wont ever pay for a podcast
2. I do think having some advertising eg 15 seconds commercial in a hole 30 minute show is a good way to help with costs think how much it would cost to host dawn and drew

I am going to jump the gun a little hear ahead of what I am offically annoucing later this week is that I will be running adverts in content produced by gamescast if there promos to push other content being produced or paid commercials from a advertiser but they will be as non intrusive as possible unlike commericial radio which may do 20 mins of adverts a hour. I will never charge for the gamescast content if it is listened to on the web though mobile 3g content is definetly a market were already have heavy R&D and with high revenue possibilities. There is ways to monitize your content without selling out to the devil, But podshow will do one think for all of us "Create the Critical Mass"

[GunForHire]

I think a lot of people are overreacting to this. We all knew that sooner or later marketing would be introduced into podcasting. Dawn and Drew have had it for a while now.

I reckon advertising could work in podcasting, as long as it's done in a way that blends with the 'cast and is subtle and fitting. For example, if all these shows that are now signed up with Podshow were to advertise that fact, I wouldn't mind, as long as they just billboarded it at the start of the show. Anyone listened to the Engadget podcast? At the start of the show it has a little tune and then says "Part of the Weblogs Inc. Network" and that's it. I can live with that no problem, and as long as the Podshow advertising is done in a similar way that's fine with me.

After all, you can just forward past the ads if you want. And also, paid podcasts have been about for a bit now. Some BBC DJ's have started http://www.podshows.com/ (the name of which is pissing off Adam no end, as it should), which offers shows on a paid basis. They're shows made by professional DJ's and are very high quality.

Personally I think that the idea of paid shows is pretty stupid. If Adam Curry ever starts charging for the Daily Source Code then I'm gone. I believe SOME shows could justify a subscription, for example, those that play RIAA music and as such need some income to cover their contract with the RIAA or ASCAP or whoever.

What people must remember is that podcasters can choose to sign up to Podshow. They can choose how much and what type of adverts they want. It's a flexible system. Also, there will be those who don't want to join up to Podshow for their own reasons. It's not as if the creation of Podshow suddenly means that every show is going to be rammed full of ads and that they'll all be DRM'd paid shows.

The creation of podcast producing companies by Podshow can only be a good thing for podcasting. Whilst I'm dubious about how the "cream of the crop" will rise to the top (and therefore who decides who the 'cream' are), the producing companies will definitely help podcasters improve the quality and content of their shows as well as help smaller podcasts reach a larger audience.

I believe that we must sit back and see what happens, and listen to the statements and answers Adam is sure to make on the DSC over the coming days and weeks.

[wallpaperman]

It really is pretty basic marketing to buy both podshow.com and podshows.com if you are planning on making a major site. Like ipooder.org and ipodder.com. He messed up their too.

[sweek]

I agree with most people here, and don't feel any need to expand podcasting really, not in the way Podshow wants to anyway. I'm all for making good shows and the public will come, if they want to.

[jeffoest]

I still have to listen to the full podcast and still have to form my thoughts more clearly (though I suspect it will be more of a 'wait and see') but some initial thoughts are that once some of the top podcasters start charging money or put advertising in their podcasts, a lot of people will crop up to take their place for free.

All the 'biggies' are replaceable right now. Michael Geoghegan? Great podcast - I love it. But replaceable by another film crazy articulate guy who does some research. Dawn and Drew - compelling and raunchy entertainment but certainly replaceable if their content becomes too polluted with ads. These are just examples and I'm not knocking their shows (hey, I LIKE their shows) - just trying to make a point. But all the 'top' podcasts are new players with little brand appeal/awareness except for us.

Now I know - there ultimately WILL be brand awareness that will ultimately help people choose podcasts or podcasts network. And certainly that brand awareness will be bought through lots of advertising (cause that's how it's done at least to the masses) and certainly good content and will have to come from large companies.

But until the revenue can support that level of expense I think it's probably not too much to get hung up about. Also remember, there will ALWAYS be talented articulate people that will do this for free for the love of it who have no intention of leaving their well-paying day jobs. Why is that? Because this is no job. It's a passion, it's a hobby for many.

So, if you are going to have sponsors and interrupt your show with ads or if you will start asking folks to pay for your podcast through a subscription 'gang' with, unless you have a killer brand, I would watch your back. People are going to find free equally good alternatives in many cases. The competition is only just beginning - in the language of my last week's podcast (for those who heard it - it's a joke) "mark my words"... hehehe

OK, now that I have THAT off my chest I'm probably completely off. Ah well, at least maybe this will foster more discussion...

[Barefoot Radio.com]

I'm intrigued as to Adam Curry's approach. I don't like his choice of "talent," but I think he takes some interesting risks.

As for the matter of selling out, go for it, Adam! I also am saying this in response to someone who said that Adam seems to care about the "almighty dollar" instead of doing something he loves for the sake of loving it. Frankly, he seems like a guy poised to do quite well with his ventures finantially, AND INDEED he sounds like he's enjoying himself as well.

What's the deal with selling out? I fully admit that I want money! HOWEVER, this desire is always one WITH concurrent artistic integrity. I'm not going to record HIP HOP to be famous! But I'll record my own experimental rock, or my show, and I'm happy to talk to genuine businessmen offering up bucks. Why the devil not?

Podcasting is here to stay. Any way Adam changes the "names" of what he's doing, or whatever, the constant here is getting audio content to people's ears. He's trying to take control of certain variables to forge a business model. It's worth thinking about if anything.

All you people and your "moral ideals!" How quickly you turn on him personally just for trying to get ahead! More power to him if he can do it!

I would consider syndicating my show in ALL SORTS of ways! Why do we have to RESTRICT ourselves to podcasting? We have many avenues for a direct audience.

I still feel compelled to call what I do a radio show. Who can stop me? Why isn't it one? Any way you get the audio to your listener, you can have a "radio" format.

Frankly, podcasting is at it's bare minimum a way to get our shows right onto a portable device. The problems getting content onto portable devices are going to go away in the future. If I'm into a show, who the hell cares whether I download an mp3, or download it in some aggregator?

I'll tell you one thing, I HATE jumping through hoops to hear something. I want the fastest way to hearing it, and if you tell me I have to take out my credit card and buy a subscription, I probably won't. Especially considering ALL the great content that's free out there.

ONWARD, FOLKS! There's more than one way to pluck a chicken! BOCK BOCK!

Frankly, good for anyone who can succeed. If anyone can make millions of bucks independently in this game I'd totally like to follow whatever path that helped them! The numbers are coming people! Just watch the next 5-10 years! This thing's gonna be huge!

[amyloo]

Found this link on the Skinny on Sports blog

http://www.ipodder.org/directory/4/thePodsquad

It looks like the announced PodSquad lineup, but includes Michael Goehagen. He must have declined to join forces. Has a better deal on his own, maybe. Or figures his book will be more objective if he isn't affiliated? I've been enjoying his book interviews.

[mesoed]

I think that Podshow, overall, is a great idea. Here is why...

If you think that Podcasting is not going to be hit hard by the traditional marketing and media folks, you are probably ignoring the obvious. As much as we all would love to keep podcasting independent, it's simply not going to happen as more people get tuned into what is going on. The Paris Hilton podcast is the first hint of the future. The traditional marketing drones will be getting their hands into the medium to sell their product.

My real fear is that Podcasting will become simply another outlet for the usual media darlings to distribute their "cookie-cutter" content. I think that with Adam Curry and Ron Bloom getting out ahead of this, it may slow this progression. If they can get a stronghold on the market, then we have a gate-keeper of sorts that can try to keep things centered on the little-guy a little longer than what gravity would allow. Shoot... being the only podcasting meteorologist is cool, but I know it's only going to take time before more of the regular media outlets put their newscasts (and weathercasts) into an RSS feed. Some are already doing it (WGBH). Most of the local media outlets are already posting portions of their news programs (especially the weather segments) onto the internet. Putting it into an RSS feed is a dream come true for folks trying to market their current internet content (many more "regular" listeners, easily monitored, etc.)

This only scratches the surface of the potential flood of regular media outlets that will likely dive into podcasting in the next 6-12 months. Of course... there are the questions of "who decided who gets the spots at the top of the list." It's pretty obvious that Adam and Ron have picked a great deal from the Podcast Alley top 10.... but what other place would someone go to find out people with the biggest audience right now? In any case, outside of the 10-20 power podcasts that Podshow will push, the rest of us will be struggling to be the primer in our genera. This is where the real potential lies, and is the nature of on-demand content. Cable TV and it's zillions of channels is like this. You have a few leads in a particular genera, (Food Network, HGTV and such), and the remaining folks struggle to get their share. Hopefully the little-guys will be able to take these leads.

[s]

Hi, I live under a rock (or maybe I'm just too busy thinking of what to do in MY podcast and not worrying about two popular kids in a farmhouse and a poofy-haired jet-setting stoner selling out the universe), but what the hell is this StrategyCast and where the hell can I hear it?

I started podcasting for the same reason I started blogging: 'cause I have a few score friends around the country with boring day jobs who need something fun to kill their lunch hour with. Some bloggers think they're the future of journalistic integrity; I think my blog is a clearinghouse for the amusing, obnoxious, and irrelevant. Similarly, I don't think I'll ever have to worry about being popular enough in the podosphere to drive my server hosting costs any higher than my bar tab, and if I never exceed those same few score friends (and a couple dozen international Wheatheads borrowed from Whole Wheat Radio) for an audience, I won't feel like I've missed the boat. When you get an email from someone halfway across the world that says they laughed at your crap, that's pretty **** rewarding in itself.

[Michael B]

The suggestion to boycott Podshow on a message board that is part of the Podshow family was one of the funniest things I have seen in a while.

Those of you who oppose commercial podcasting should do just that - boycot commercial podcasts. I'd like to go one step further and suggest you not be hypocrites by patronizing a commercial podcasting website that is part of the machine you rage against.

Don't pay for them. Don't listen to them. Keep doing what you do the way you do it. Is there something that Podshow is doing that keeps you from doing that or are you just complaining for the sake of complaining?

I love that the topic of selling out has come up too. It makes it real easy to filter who to read and who not to. Sell out - what a great phrase. Last time I used that was when Suicidal Tendancies went metal. Ah, the memories...

[camilian]

Anyone find it funny that Adam is now the devil because of Podshow, but Disney can come in to the podcasting world, and no one says anything?

People might want to check out the Disney - DMCA connection. You might also want to check out what human rights groups have to say about Disney.

Now I am not saying Disney should not be able to podcast, I just find it hilarious what people consider "selling out".

[allthewhile]

I want an "I support Podshow" tshirt please.

[theFerf]

I want an "I support Podshow" tshirt please.

Consider it done :D

[dcolanduno]

I honestly think all the objection to PodShow has little to do with the 'commercialization' aspect, and more to do with HOW it was done.

It was done on a midnight run, in secret many podcasters were contacted with, what I have heard to be a pretty raw deal, from SEVERAL honest sources. Lots of folks turned down the offers, so when you look at who 'is' the 'talent' keep in mind many folks turned down the offer.

I'm not sure what that plan was, since it seems that for some reason or another folks can't talk even about what the offer was, or plans that were contained within.

THAT'S what's wrong with what's going on. It has now created a precieved 'power' clique inside the community. And, I would say that it's not precieved, I think it's pretty true, considering that the paranoia breeds reality in this case.

When people are flown to New York and other places, and given 'secret' offers... nothing good is going on for the community in 'general'. The bulk of the benefit in a large way is going to go to those that are just like the rest of us, but now... 'in the secret loop'.

It is the blatent and obvious exclusion of the general community that is the issue here. Not the commercialization or who it is that's doing it. It is a solid, plain, shift from a large open community of helpful, friendly folks. To a corporate plan, behind a curtain.

D.

[Craig]

I want an "I support Podshow" tshirt please.
Speaking of Disney, can I have a "People for the Ethical Treatment of Cartoon Animals" t-shirt?

Craig

[jgreenwald]

Derek makes a good point. Podcasting began as a community thing. I’ve been reading Adam’s blog for years, and I was there at the beginning when he and Dave brought this puppy to life. In the beginning it was all about sharing and collaboration. Adam and Dave calling each other, kicking around ideas. (“Where users and developers party together.�) Listeners to the DSC were submitting new ideas every day. It was one BOING after another. People even threw out ideas on how to make money with podcasting. But it was all in the open. Everyone was sharing and supporting each other.

Then one day Adam did something that startled me. He said that he was going to delay uploading the DSC until he could register “Sound Scene Tours.� It was like, I don’t trust you guys out there. You might try to get this, and it’s mine.

WTF.

Then he, Dave, and Ron met in Florida. Suddenly the community was cut out of the conversation. Dave, of course, bailed at that point; he didn’t like what he was hearing in those behind-closed-doors meetings. Then Adam pulled his stuff off Dave’s servers. The two guys who created podcasting were no longer even speaking to each other. That was the first clear sign that something was rotten in Denmark.

Since then it has been all “No ****ed Announcements� and secret meetings and Paris Hilton and strategycasts and Adam returning to the old media paradigm. I guess I am an idealist. I had hoped for better than this.

[dcolanduno]

jgreen,

I forgot to mention that last point. All of it seems to just be pointing to a 'new' - 'old' radio format.

A list of pre-set 'talent'

A station with 4 hours of that 'talent'

I've heard that before, it's FM/AM radio...

D.

[Michael B]

So the complaints are that a guy who was active in a "community" wanted to make a private company and he operated his private company in private instead of keeping it in plain view of a "community"?

This reeks of sour grapes and bad logic. He left us out, but his offers sucked anyway. "The food is terrible and the portions are too small".

I will ask again - In what way do his actions prevent anyone from doing what they were doing before he came up with Podshow?

Get over it people.

There are a few points that people are overlooking: technology allows people to quote all the "long tail" stuff and talk about narrowcasting as a viable business alternative and how one can make a living from being a self-run label as a recording artist without being a Rockstar.

Commercialization of the medium doesn't affect you in any way from doing what you are doing. Recording and disseminating audio files recorded by individuals existed before Adam Curry and will exist long after. An attachment to childish idealism isn't going to help anyone.

[WyethDigital]

There are some interesting points here on both sides of the issue. I have to be honest... in business for myself as I am, I have to say that it is plain silly to try to start a new business in a competetive or "hot" market in a transparent fashion, as some people around here think AC should have done. There's just too much attention being paid to Podcasting by the "big guys," to lay out all your cards on a public forum. Its impracticial and it's just plain stupid.

Secondly, it's also not unusual for someone with a start-up to "remember his friends," or to associate with people he has either a rapport with, or similar sensitivities. If I was starting a private business with a propietary business model, and with proprietary services the last person that would fit the bill as a partner or associate is someone that feels the whole process should be open and transparent at every level. Dave and Adam are perfect evidence of this. They disagreed with each others models and ambitions and they walked away from each other. I wish it could have been more civil, but them's the breaks.

Finally, as a listener, I like choice. Adam's Podshow model doesn't really offer me anything I would use as a listener that I can't find somewhere else in a better form. Looking at the site as an outsider, in fact, it's still hard to tell from the site what it's all about, and how it works. So independent Podcasters, you have nothing to worry about. I can still download Podcasts, I can still choose what I listen to and when...

... So what's the problem and where's the need to boycot? Tell you what. Boycot something that really matters, like (in my opinion) companies that gave the Republicans money for the last election, and who are now endangering 56 million acres of virgin and wilderness natural areas (that were previously set aside by Clinton) by opening them up to logging, mining, and oil exploration? Wake up Sheeple! ;) There's a lot more stuff to get your panties in bunch over than Adam Curry and his start-up company, Podshow.


Eric

[dcolanduno]

Sour grapes?

If you read my post, all I'm really doing is defining WHY people are upset.

I don't think people would have been upset, nearly in the fashion they are, if the person that was getting all this attention... wasn't one of the ONLY people in podcasting that already had bee, or at one time was 'big business' in the past.

It's just frustrating to a lot of people to watch that whole incest driven big business feeds its own, then crappy offers are made to everyone else model play out yet again.

The only point here is WHY people are 'sour', not that it was unavoidable.

D.

[xtffx]

Narf.

[dcolanduno]

Adams most reacent DSC podcast, 5-5-2005, attempted to clear up a lot of the questions we seem to be always talking about.

I suggest a lot of folk that have complaints, and otherwise listen and see what your impression is, or if it changes your mind at all.

The things that I thought were GOOD clarifications:

- It's going to be not much more than Adam promoting podcasts, of all kinds, doing a little of his 'DSC' thing on top of it.

- There is the possibility that in that four hour block of time per day 1 or 2 podcasts will get played. (nothing was said on how those get chosen)

The things that I would love to know:

- Is Podshow a proprietary format? Adam mentioned the 'tools' and 'hosting' where you accept advertising, or pay money to use/be hosted. My big question is, can we have a show ON Podshow, AND still keep our own version of our p'casts one other servers we desire? Or, does the Podshow contract give up your ability to keep your own hosting solutions as well?

- Something was mentioned in the past about people taking on advertising to reap in money for thier podcast. That seems to have been lost, there has been a lot of discussion by Adam on this 'overwhelming' cost of the infreastructure and such. Might be that they need all the dollars they can keep to run thier network and hardware system alone. (not sure)

-------------

I WILL say that I found it somewhat encouraging that he mentioned a lot of the discouragement that has been seen online since the announcement.

I'm not sure it will improve the overall mood of some of the folks in one way or another.

[jeffoest]

Yep to all that - AND I did hear this morning on the 5/5 show that he will indeed continue to produce the DSC podcast as he's doing now.

Now between us, I can't imagine him doing a 4-hour daily compilation show AND a 30-60 minute DSC every day. Sure he'll leverage stuff between the two but that's a LOT of work.... guess we'll see.....

[dcolanduno]

I'm not sure how he's going to do 5-6 hours of on-air production a day.

UNLESS he uses the DSC as part of his 4 hours... <shrug>

Maybe, eventually, the goal is to share that responsibility with some of that 'podteam' or whatever he's calling that group of folks that they have chosen for the core group of Podshow people.

I'm not sure as to what the role of those folks is anyway as of yet. They only have stated that they got money and equipment to help them do thier work, but what that work is, I don't know.

It was said that the 'podcrew/team/heads' are being setup so they can work on Podcasting full time... Not sure what I'd do all day if all I needed to do was the Dawn and Drew show. So, they must be doing something additional and time consuming.

Can anyone that's on that team wieigh in? Or does someone have any idea?

D.

[Famous Mortimer]

I've seen "pod" put in front of more different words in this thread than just about anywhere else ever.

But what I hope the difference will be with this is the ability to get in on the ground floor of this is so much cheaper. No need to get a broadcasting license, a printing press, cameras or anything of the sort. No royalties to pay. All it takes is a microphone and a computer and you're laughing, which can't be said for any of the big business media forms. When I'm listening to three unemployed guys just chatting and laughing with each other, I'd be totally pissed off if they started slapping proper adverts in the middle of it.

It might go like the music biz, where there's a mainstream of people who do it and get paid big bucks, but my fervent hope is that there's plenty of podcasts like my favourite experimental bands who do it as a hobby, effectively. As to all the shows I listen to and subscribe to now...wouldn't pay a penny for the privilege. The sole benefit it has over just listening to radio for free on the net is portability, but that's not something I (or, I imagine, many other people) would be willing to pay for. Nice to see the startup-to-corporate-takeover time seems to have set some sort of record (hell, even punk had a good few years in the underground), but as I don't care to listen to Adam Curry's podcast, I could be way wrong on all this, in which case, treat me as you would a slightly hyperactive and badly informed child.

[jazzyrick]

This is almost hilarious. How many of you posters complaining about Podshow, or whatever corporate entity is "taking over" podcasting, don't pay for internet? Noone can "take over" podcasting. If you don't want to pay for it(which I'm sure 90% of us don't) then don't friggen buy it and quit complaining. You don't have to pay for radio, but XM, and Sirius are blowing up. You don't have to pay for TV either, but how many of you have cable or a dish. It's about choice people. Your home phone isn't good enough so you pay for cellular service right?

There are some really cool podcasts out there...probably 100's, but it's time taken up in someones life to do it, and right now they are doing it because the want/like to. Sooner or later they will get tired of it, and someone else will come along. That's the nature of podcasting right now. The fact that Danw and Drew, or the people at musicpodcasting.org, or Grape Radio have the time, resources, and ability to take time out of their day or week to put out some original, and pretty decent stuff is awsome, but that 30 minutes you hear twice a week or however often is more than likely 4-8 hours out of someones week, and let's face it, life gets in the way sometimes, and much more so when the motivation is "because I like to do it", and not because "I'm getting paid".

Nobody is going to make you pay to hear Dawn and Drew, or Adam Curry. If you don't want to pay, then don't. Even if that form of pay is really just advertising of some sort. You spend 10 hours researching new podsafe music for a 30 minute feed, or call up your buddy and talk about whatever's pissing you off today, and record it and make it a feed. You really can do it. There is no way podcasting is getting "taken over".

Wow, was I full of angst or what?

[WyethDigital]

Wow, was I full of angst or what?

Angst, yes! But much wisdom! You've stated very well my feelings when I saw this thread originally.

What I should have done from the beginning was concisely summarize my opinion: Take a pill, people! It's just a website! Ahhhhhh! Much better!


Eric

[dhp]

I don't understand the animosity.

While the independent spirit of podcasting is certainly what attracted me to the medium, I'm not necessairly opposed to podcasts being used commercially.

I've been in radio for a few years, and worked for record labels. I know that podcasting will ultimatly be commercialized.

Clear Channel, however, will never "own" podcasting. Yes, I'm sure that when the fear and shock wear off, they'll learn to adopt it a la NPR and Air America.

One of the inherent differences between podcasting and commercial radio is that YOU can do your own show. YOU own it, YOU control the production, YOU control the marketing. If you don't want a commercial show, then don't promote it outside your group of friends. I think that's WAY cool. Use it to your own ends. No one is stopping you.

I like that Adam and crew are thinking about the future. I don't know (and neither do you) what goes on behind the scenes, so me for to make a judgement would be pretty inappropriate. I do think that Adam comes across as respectful and intelligent. He does not seem to want to control podcasting, but is smart enough to see that the medium needs to be legitimized. PODSHOW, Sirius and iTunes are a way of achieving this.

Again, if you don't like it, don't listen. Putting together a boycott is totally cool, and your right to do. I'm not an Adam defender, but I also know that I don't have all the facts. All I can do is pay attention and work on my own shows. It's nice that podcasting is underground, and kina 'our' medium. This will change, and we need to prepare for that in our own ways. Remember, just like your favorite indie band, podcasting is something that we can participate in, but not own. I can't keep my favorite underground band from getting big, and I can't prevent podcasting from getting big. I just don't have all information about everything that happends with podcasting, just like I can't read the minds of my favorite bands.

Calling Adam and company sellouts is just plain silly, and accomplishes nothing.

My two cents,
Dan
The Creepy Sleepy Show

[abgiants]

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/may2005/tc20050524_5126_tc_211.htm?campaign_id=spr_yahoo_p odcast05
"Politicans are Pod People"
"Pod People" used in the media.

[sydbarrett]

and here's me thinking i came up with

podPeople

ouch

[sydbarrett]

here are a few others

chimpcast

breastcast

i thought of those all by myself


thank you dudes, thank you

[jimk]

Am I the only one that thinks Adam is absolutely interestng in making PodShow a commercial entity, is helping Apple figure out how to make *some* podcasts commercial through iTunes but...

BUT...

Also, in addition, on the side, along with...as in NOT ONE OR THE OTHER BUT AT THE SAME TIME...Are we clear that I thnk the previous and the following items can and may happen concurrently?

Maybe he's interested in also keeping raw podcasting the grassroots thing it has always been. Is there room for both? I think so.

Why are so many at the Alley so...absolutist? Why does it always have to be all "You're a commercial sell-out!" or "You're totally cool because you record on a 1950's wire machine, man, you're a real podcaster?"

Why can't there be a middle ground where everyone gets what they want?

[trueisnotfalse]

What I should have done from the beginning was concisely summarize my opinion: Take a pill, people! It's just a website! Ahhhhhh! Much better!


Eric

Eric is right. Chill out. In the early days of the Web people were all bent out of shape when it started being commercialized saying things like "I'm not paying for content," or "commercialization will kill it!" That's nonsense!

There will always be free podcasts and there are going to be commercialized podcasts --be it paid per download or advertising...so what? Listen and support the casts you like.

...Joe

[feastoffools]

I don't think that regular grassroots podcasts have anything to fear about CurryChannel Media. I've always belived that a rising tide lifts all ships, and making our fans have easier access to our shows is a good thing.

The only way this can suck is if ordinary mom and pop podcasts (or in my case pop and poppa) get pushed aside in this big podcasting "gold" rush. How this will happen, who knows.

What IS telling is that apple computer has not contacted any of the major players who aren't associated with CurryChannel Media, to the best of my knowledge.

[kickasspodcast]

If you are as appalled as I am at what we heard in the "StrategyCast," write to the misguided podcasters we all respect who have fallen under the Ron Bloom spell and encourage them to get out while the getting is good. If necessary, reward those who remain independent with your votes and punish those who consort with PodShow by withholding your votes.

Podcasting has a wonderful future. It can truly spawn the rebirth of the radio of the independent, free-form days. Or it can begin to mirror everything we hate about old media.

Dave Winer had a chance to be a part of this (remember those meetings in Florida) and as he said today, he wanted no part of it. Me neither.

I personally always took Podshow AND the Sirius deal with a grain of salt. Sirius is a totally strugglin' satelite radio station, with a Crappy name and very little outside programming. Most of what the do is put together by people who all report to the same Board of Directors. We all know they have way too many limits and regulations on their content to ever be close to what podcasting is. I pity anyone stupid enough to be a sucker and try to get their full show on the Podshow. I would be interested if they just stuck to playing lots of promo's for us strugglers but its like taking yourself out of the podcasting world and just resigning to be a Sirius Radio program developer when podcasters have it good right now anyways.

Isn't the show on 4 hours like 1 day a week? or even if its 4 hours EVERY day.. on 1 channel that probably reaches 5-10 thousand people at the most. 5-10 thousand people? There are podcasters who get 10k-30k downloads per show... doing quite better than the entire podshow listernship.

Sorry folks, don't take Sirius too um.. Serious.. when Howard Stern gets there next year maybe he can make that place cool, but they can keep trashy-*** madge weinstein and the rest of the sucker-sellouts who give up all creativity in order to get on satelite radio...


This is a nice opinion thread.. not many facts can come out of it, but I had to (as you all know) give my opinion on this matter.


Jack

ps- sorry to offend the Yeast Radio fans.. but I think that **** is anti-creative and entirely unarticulated. And of course its pretty clear Madge is a Dude anyways.. we aren't blind.

PSS- As for a boycot, I work for a living and refuse to specifically boycot places where other people who work for a living could loose their job, that only creates more problems.

PSSS- BUT I do actively boycot Bill O'reilly and anything with his name on it ;)

[kickasspodcast]

Eric is right. Chill out. In the early days of the Web people were all bent out of shape when it started being commercialized saying things like "I'm not paying for content," or "commercialization will kill it!" That's nonsense!

Nobody sane ever said they wouldn't pay to use the internet, which is exactly the same thing as paying for content. Everyone knew that they were always going to have to pay for the internet.


OK- I dunno if you worked and SERN partical physics lab or not, but the WWW started out pretty much entirely a commercial/military enterprise. SERN is company makes products to sell. They created the WWW.

I am not saying people didn't say what you said.. but I think its a joke to say that a large group of people actually implied NO COMMERCIALIZATION to the web.. what were all theses protestors going to fund the entire web with their lunch money? They knew **** well it would turn into what it is now.. I think its just a weak example.. I have made plenty of those! Remember that time with the soup and the lawnmower? Ya- I know <shrugs>


I guess what I am trying to say is that anyone who thought that a massive influx of money into a computer network would ruin it, doesn't realize what I have come to learn. When it comes to computer networks, the more money you invest in them, the better the usually get.
jack

[radioclash]

OK- I dunno if you worked and SERN partical physics lab or not, but the WWW started out pretty much entirely a commercial/military enterprise. SERN is company makes products to sell. They created the WWW.

Umm at CERN (and UKERNA?) I think Tim Berners-Lee did it as a publically funded research project - CERN is in part publically funded, through hefty EC grants I think (I could be wrong but pretty sure the invention of WWW and HTML was in part publically funded).

Certainly I'm pretty sure Tim Berners-Lee published his work and research for the use of the academic community, and others. So whether it was publically funded or not was moot anyway - it was released into the wild for academics (which it was invented for), and then us and companies to use. Not as a commercial or exploitable asset - hence BT trying to slip that patent into the backdoor in the US...part of the reason it spread was because it wasn't proprietary, patented or commercialised.

Ditto podcasting. Open source is the way!

I'll ask my partner...I was doing websites in 1996 but he was part of the internet in 1983...

[kickasspodcast]

Mmm.. I know CERN owns the 100's of patents. I know they make money selling their creations to companies. I guess College laboratories do the same thing but CERN isn't a college per say.

I don't think it was ever released for educational purposes. I think you can argue that it was for mass communication for Scientists but educational just seems a bit too no profit to be believed. You make some good points, and are the last dude i will argue with since you were the bomb and played our promo.

I am sure you are right, I just don't recall anyone saying commercialization of the net was going to be its downfall.


Jack

[radioclash]

Not arguing - just want to clarify what you said because it's not factually correct. Check out this link.

http://www.ibiblio.org/pioneers/lee.htm
Berners-Lee tried to sell his new creation at CERN as a way to link data between the many incompatible systems at CERN. Still the bureaucracy at CERN was slow in acknowledging his efforts. Berners-Lee then turned to the Internet community. In 1991, he made his WorldWideWeb browser and web server software available on the Internet and posted notices to several newsgroups including alt.hypertext.

The WWW was a solution to solve a problem about sharing findings and data, nothing to do with commercialisation - check out the original proposal - there's no mention of 'we can make money from this' at all. http://www.w3.org/History/1989/proposal.html

Happy to be proved wrong about this - if you can prove that the Web was invented for monetary gain then cool, let me know. But I'm 99.9% sure I'm right.

I am aware this is seriously off-topic tho so maybe take it offline? :oops:

[kickasspodcast]

Not arguing - just want to clarify what you said because it's not factually correct. Check out this link.

http://www.ibiblio.org/pioneers/lee.htm
Berners-Lee tried to sell his new creation at CERN as a way to link data between the many incompatible systems at CERN. Still the bureaucracy at CERN was slow in acknowledging his efforts. Berners-Lee then turned to the Internet community. In 1991, he made his WorldWideWeb browser and web server software available on the Internet and posted notices to several newsgroups including alt.hypertext.

The WWW was a solution to solve a problem about sharing findings and data, nothing to do with commercialisation - check out the original proposal - there's no mention of 'we can make money from this' at all. http://www.w3.org/History/1989/proposal.html

Happy to be proved wrong about this - if you can prove that the Web was invented for monetary gain then cool, let me know. But I'm 99.9% sure I'm right.

I am aware this is seriously off-topic tho so maybe take it offline? :oops:


This is where I am a total pain in the ***.
CERN is in a capitalist nation, it could be argued that any result of capitalism is profit.

But as far as the facts, I will gladly conceit.

Jack

[radioclash]

This is where I am a total pain in the ***.
CERN is in a capitalist nation, it could be argued that any result of capitalism is profit.

But as far as the facts, I will gladly conceit.

Jack

True but this is one for the good guys - the 'capitalist concern' - which I doubt CERN is as it's a research facilty, but hey happy to follow that one for a while - wasn't interested, didn't see the value and the WWW was released for everyone. It slipped through the 'Net' so to speak.

But ergo - I am a product of a capitalist nation also, so when I fart is that a profit? :P

[dcolanduno]

Dudes... Al Gore made the internet, doncha' know? :)

Actually, it was all put out into the wild. I ran one of the first private nodes off the backbone in Vegas. I ran this 28-line BBS system and it was cool to be able to feed IRC and email to my users. I remember that hey-day!

Of course, I pulled out, RIGHT before it hit huge. Mainly because BBS's were losing steam to AOL/Compuserv and such because of their more robust Internet access. The web was just text then... So, then I had to try to jump back on the wave... <sigh>

[radioclash]

I can't claim any great prior - I came to the WWW in 1996 when web coding was Mozilla and Netscape 1 and *gasp* 2...I remember messing around with Net in 1993 like gopher and pre-web stuff at University, MUDS etc. because that's all they had. They wouldn't even give us email because they wanted to charge for it :roll:

My partner on the other hand is one of the JANET 100 (I think he's one of the reasons you don't have to pay for your Net access at Uni/college in the UK - they were seriously intending to do such a thing in the early 90's! DOH!) and was part of this in the early 80's - pre TCP/IP... :shock: He's partly why I know bits about the early formation of the internet and WWW ...

He pretty much says moving from text was a bad idea :D

[Hittman]

I ran this 28-line BBS system and it was cool to be able to feed IRC and email to my users.

A 28 line BBS? Cool. What software were you running?

I ran an 8 line corporate BBS, one of the first ever set up to handle customer support. We got calls from all over the planet, and people were paying premium prices for long distance back then.

I then set up a system at home, a chat BBS, that started at 8 lines and grew to 21 before the Internet killed it dead. I remember installing Internet E-Mail – people could post to their internet e-mail box, and the BBS would dial out on the first free modem it found, upload their message, then download any that were waiting for them or any other users. People thought that was just the coolest thing, and a lot of people subscribed to it for that feature alone.

All 21 lines ran off a 486-66, using Digiboards and a caching HD controller with 2 megs of memory on it. And when 21 people were connected, that puppy was still fast. (The caching controller was the secret – it kept the recent requests to the hard drive in memory, and served it up quickly to the next user.) Fast being a relative term, of course – 15 of the modems were 14.4, and the rest were 28.8. But you can communicate pretty quickly when you're doing it all in plain text.

I'm looking across the room at two 7 disk SCSI CD changers that I'm going to put on eBay soon. Officially double speed, they actually ran at about 4x, and held 14 different disks of shareware and porn. They lived on another PC, and when someone requested downloads, the CD PC would detect the request, grab files off the CDs, and dump them to a cache on the 486 where the customer could download them. Those things were clicking and clacking 24/7.

On the other side of the room I have a bookshelf full of TBBS software and add-ons. They are completely useless, and have no value whatsoever, but since I spent about three grand on them I just can't bring myself to throw them away.

[dcolanduno]

We ran a modified TBBS system. We started on Wildcat! but it didn't have the balls to handle our stuff. I had two rooms of a house I owned out north of Vegas on the TPC on the Painted Desert golf course. I miss that house... I paid like 85k for it back in 1993... I bet it is like 1.4 million now with the boom Vegas has been in...

Anyway... yea... I was lucky enough to be less than 2000 feet from a Casino out that way, and therefore they were able to run 30 clean lines into the house.

My father, who at the time worked for Unisys, (Used to work for Burroughs), he got us a mainframe interface for mass storage on optic-tape. We had like 120gig of storage live. Back in 1990-1994 that was cool stuff...

Ahhh, memories!