Shure M58: do I need an amp and other microphone questions

[awaretek]

OK, I got the disease of sound gadgets ;-))

I just bought a Shure M58-QTR and it works fine through my Griffin iMic. The volume is OK when I am real close to the mic, but when I am a foot or two away, the volume is much less than when I use my Logitech headsets through the iMic, although I can adjust software settings to compensate.

Question: do I need a pre-amp? I'd like to go without one, the iMic sure is simple to use.

Craig, you use an amp with your Behringer Eurorack MXB1002 , but you say your Sony mic works fine with just the iMic? Is my Shure more similar to your Sony (I hope) or you Behringer Eurorack MXB1002 ???

I am a little confuses about phantom power, when it necessary, what is the iMic really doing (any power boost, etc etc.)

Ron

[pdadave]

So you are converting the XLR out of the mic into a 1/8" mic input on the iMic?

You vocals are likely quiet because the pic isn't getting any power. You won't get power through an 1/8" mic input for an XLR mic. You could do a couple for things. You could get a simple Behringer board with a built in preamp (IMP they call them) and drop the out put of that into the iMic. That will give you more functionality with the mic before it gets into the computer while still keeping things pretty simple. You can then control the levels outside your PC and it really would only add one more step between your mic and the iMic. It would be simple. If you are worried the MXB1002 is to much, consider the UB802.

http://www.behringer.com/UB802/index.cfm?lang=ENG

Another option would be to actually get a mic preamp, but I think a simple mixer would be a much better option.

[awaretek]

Yes, pdaDave, I am taking the xlr (1/4 ") connector from teh cable that connects to the Shure PG58 xlr. and puttign that into a 1/4" to 1/8 ' adapter, tehn plkugging into my iGriffen that then plugs into a usb port on my PowerMace. I am thinkg maybe I shoudl exchagne teh Shure PG 58 for a Shure PG 48, since the PG 48 is for spoken word and recommends that speaker's mouth be .5 to 3 fgeet form mic, whereas PG 58 (the one I bought) is for lead vocals and recomemdns one's motuh be 6 inches from mic.

I have seven days to make a return and exchange.

Actually, teh sound volume is Ok when I am withing 6 inches of the mic. Maybe the PG 48 will solve my problem.

What confuses me is , how do you know whterh a mic needs amplification? Doe sthe Griffin iMic amplify or help with power? etc.

[pdadave]

*Edit: I have changed the models to what I meant, but because I didn't READ some of what was above and because it was initally noted the mic was the "Shure M58," this whole post doesnt make a lot of sense.*

The PG48 is going to be quite a step down than the SM58. If you can afford the SM58, I would stick with it. It will capture much better audio (even though it says it is for lead vocals). The 48 isn't for "lead vocals" because the quality would probably suck to bad.

Yes, you are going to want to be pretty close to the mic, but that also depends on the volume of your device.

I can't tell for sure with the SM58 if it needs Phantom Power. I am guessing no because I can't find anywhere that says it needs it, but that isn't to say that it doesn't need a preamp. The Preamp is just that, an amp. It will give you additional volume meaning that you can be further away or have a boosted audio signal. Pretty much all mics need a preamp, though most decent mixers will have a preamp built in (even that little Behringer one I cited). XLR connectors are a clear sign that the mic is of a high enough quality that a preamp of some kind will be needed.

I think you would find you would have a lot better results if you ran it through some sort of amplification. Like directly from the mic to the UB802 or MXB1002. Then you can convert all you want out of that into the iMic.

[pwfenton]

An important think to realize about a mic that only picks up when you are closer than 6 inches, is that it means you will have nice clean quiet recordings that don't feature background noise like the fan in your computer, the airconditioner in the room you are recording in, and your cat meowing and so on. So sometimes that's a good thing.

Phantom power is for "condenser mics" also refered to as "electret" sometimes. These mics need electrical power to record a sound. Phantom power is ONLY for that type of mic. Mics like the one you have are "dynamic" mics and they don't need external power (and would only be harmed by it). The Griffin iMic is not capable of providing Phantom Power anyway.

The advice you got saying that a mini-plug can't provide as much power as an XLR connector is misinformation. The type of plug has no bearing at all on "power".

[pwfenton]

An important THINK to realize... what spell checker can save me from that? :oops:

[audiocollective]

The 48 is going to be quite a step down than the 58. If you can afford the 58, I would stick with it. It will capture much better audio (even though it says it is for lead vocals). The 48 isn't for "lead vocals" because the quality would probably suck to bad.

Yes, you are going to want to be pretty close to the mic, but that also depends on the volume of your device.

I can't tell for sure with the 58 if it needs Phantom Power. I am guessing no because I can't find anywhere that says it needs it, but that isn't to say that it doesn't need a preamp. The Preamp is just that, an amp. It will give you additional volume meaning that you can be further away or have a boosted audio signal. Pretty much all mics need a preamp, though most decent mixers will have a preamp built in (even that little Behringer one I cited). XLR connectors are a clear sign that the mic is of a high enough quality that a preamp of some kind will be needed.

I think you would find you would have a lot better results if you ran it through some sort of amplification. Like directly from the mic to the UB802 or MXB1002. Then you can convert all you want out of that into the iMic.

I have 2 sm-48's and have been using them for 5 years. I haven’t noticed any difference between the 48 and 58. The do not need phantom power and they do very well for live vocals. I did use it as a 3rd mic for my podcast a few times and it worked really well, not as well as my condenser mics but it worked better than I expected for being a non-condenser. I have a UB1202 and they work great.

[pdadave]

...a mini-plug can't provide as much power as an XLR connector is misinformation. The type of plug has no bearing at all on "power".

I have never seen a mini-plug with an Phantom Power option. (Yes, I realize that this mic does not need Phantom Power, but I am just saying.)

[pdadave]

I have 2 sm-48's and have been using them for 5 years. I haven’t noticed any difference between the 48 and 58.

So we are totally mixing up the PG's and the SM's. They are different mics.

Initally we were talking about the SM58, then it was asked about the PG48 but in comparison to the PG58 (which I missed and read as the SM58). The PG's and SM's are different products.

audiocollective, I don't doubt you are correct. Between the SM48 and SM58, probably not much difference (but there should be some in the high end). I meant to say between the PG48 and the SM58. There would likely be quite a bit of difference there. It is a $40 mic vs. $100...so at least I would hope ther would be.

Just so we are all aware:
http://www.shure.com/microphones/models/sm58.asp
50Hz to 15kHz

http://www.shure.com/microphones/models/sm48.asp
55Hz to 14kHz

http://www.shure.com/microphones/models/pg48.asp
70Hz to 15kHz

http://www.shure.com/microphones/models/pg58.asp
60Hz to 15kHz

[audiocollective]

ya, the pg's arn't that great but it is not even a noticable difference in the sm's exept the name... it is "cool" to have a 58 but not as cool to have a 48. they are great mics though! dont get the PG's, spend a little more and get an SM.

[awaretek]

Hm, yes, I sure did mess up my shure product numbers, sorry evryone. I have a PG 58, and am thinking of trading in for a PG 48. Although the PG 58 cost $59.99, and the PG 48 cost only $39.99, I thought that because PG 48 is listed as for spoken word, and calls for mouth to be 6 to 24 inches away, it might be better for my purposes than the PG 58, which is ilisted only for lead vocals and calls for the mouth to be less than 6 inches away.

I appreciate what you allare sying about the SM's being worth the difference,btu if I restrict myself to teh PG line, do you think I woudl be better off with the 48 or the 58? With the 58, I see little choice but to always hold it in my hand close to my mouth, but the 48 could sit in a stand beside my desk and work? I do have a boom stnad.

Ron

[pdadave]

I think that you will find the PG48 will have to stay just as close to your mouth as the PG58. The cheaper mic isn't going to pickup more, it will most likely pick up less.

As was said earlier, you don't want the mic much more than 6 inches form your mouth, otherwise it will pick up to much ambient around. Usuaully you use a mic pretty close to your mouth.

[WyethDigital]

Yes, pdaDave, I am taking the xlr (1/4 ") connector from teh cable that connects to the Shure PG58 xlr. and puttign that into a 1/4" to 1/8 ' adapter, tehn plkugging into my iGriffen that then plugs into a usb port on my PowerMace. I am thinkg maybe I shoudl exchagne teh Shure PG 58 for a Shure PG 48, since the PG 48 is for spoken word and recommends that speaker's mouth be .5 to 3 fgeet form mic, whereas PG 58 (the one I bought) is for lead vocals and recomemdns one's motuh be 6 inches from mic.

And that is why I agree you should have a pre-amp. I know you're concerned about an extra link in the chain, another step, etc, but with all those darned adaptors you've already added steps. and they're only degrading your sound anyway. A pre-amp, like in the small mixers that were suggested earlier, actually add to your signal. All those adaptors just weaken it. Especially with cheaper mics.


Eric

[pdadave]

I know you're concerned about an extra link in the chain, another step, etc, but with all those darned adaptors you've already added steps. and they're only degrading your sound anyway. A pre-amp, like in the small mixers that were suggested earlier, actually add to your signal. All those adaptors just weaken it. Especially with cheaper mics.

Very true Eric, good points there to consider as well. Lots of adapters, not such a good idea...but a preamp would also help you and might allow you to convert the XLR to 1/4" without any adapters.

[Craig]

Ron, sorry...I just saw this thread. The Eurorack is a mixer, not a mic. The Sony ECM-MS907 mic can be used directly with the iMic as it supplies its own power through an internal AA battery. If you want to use the Shure you'll need a mixer such as the Eurorack UB802 (around US$50) or some kind of mic preamp. Another option would be to bypass the iMic completely and go with the micPlug from DVForge:

http://www.dvforge.com/plug.shtml

A mixer gives you more flexibility though.

Craig

[pdadave]

WOW! Those plugs are crazy!