It's time to play: Help the Newbie!!!

[Dominar]

Ok, so I have the Behringer Eurotrack UB802 and the Marshal MXL 990 sitting in front of me.

I have no idea what kind of cables I need to:

A) hook the mic to the mixer
B) hook the mixer to my PC audio in
C) hook anything else to mixer

Any help (preferably with link to example) would be a great help!!

Thanks!

[jeffoest]

a) mic cable - this should be an XLR->XLR (typical 'mic cable')
b) not sure here but I think you need an interface to the computer like a M-Audio USB or Firewire... if you have one, you would need 1/4" - > 1/4" cables to hook the mixer and the audio interface.
c) line-ins to mixers are almost always 1/4" except for the mic's which are XLR...

[Dominar]

How do I know if my sources are balanced or unbalanced? Esp the mic.

[jeffoest]

The mic will be balanced. XLR equipment is always balanced.

As far as other equipment that you may bring into the mixer, usually you have to go the manufac. specs to check if their outputs are balanced or unbalanced.

Note - you will cause no damage mixing unbalanced/balanced etc... you will just compromise the sound somewhat. When you have the option, try to pick balanced as a better signal/noise ratio can usually be obtained with it.

Oh - on the mixer outs to the audio interface, you can probably use either balanced or unbalanced.

Some of this stuff seems needlessly complicated - but I suggest start plugging things in and fiddling around a bit - your not going to blow anything up!

[jeffoest]

I found this:

"Balanced" ins and outs.

A mixer with balanced inputs and outputs allows you to connect gear that is balanced with XLR or 1/4 inch TRS cables. This essentially allows you to run cables in greater lengths, even to the next room, and not pick up hum or noise. Mixers with unbalanced ins and outs require shorter cable runs, and use 1/4 inch TS cables or RCA jacks. More on cables. If your audio interface has balanced inputs and outputs you may want a mixer with balanced inputs and outputs. Most mixers with balanced inputs will accept unbalanced cables too. So if you are using a soundcard with unbalanced RCAs you can still use a mixer with balanced inputs most of the time.

Also - check this URL for cables info:

http://www.tweakheadz.com/all_about_cables.htm

[Dominar]

Thanks! I'll read that. I think I need a short course on all the sound equipment vocab!!

[Craig]

B) hook the mixer to my PC audio in
You can run the tape out jacks on the mixer to the line in on your PC directly, without an interface box. Radio Shack or your local electronics/stereo store should have the cable. You want 2 male RCA phono to stereo 1/8-inch male mini.

Craig

[Dominar]

Thanks Craig. I think I may have that cable in my collection.

Should I worry about gold tipped or anything like that for that cable?

Also, will I get alot of hiss from the PC?

[jeffoest]

Thanks Craig - yeah I wasn't quite sure that you could do that as I don't record directly into the computer myself.

Dominar - as far as using gold-tipped connectors, it's not that important. For mini-plugs (1/8") you will find that the gold-tipped will last longer over time but just a normal plug won't really give you any sound degredation.

I believe that the mic input into your computer is somewhat noisy but I'm not sure about the line-in. In fact on my PC I don't have a line-in which is why I was thinking you had to have the audio interface. I may be wrong here, but I don't think the mic-in would work very well from a line output from the mixer since the mic-in is expecting a much lower powered input....

[WyethDigital]

Some of this stuff seems needlessly complicated - but I suggest start plugging things in and fiddling around a bit - your not going to blow anything up!

Except maybe your ear drums! :lol:

Seriously, Jeff is right when he says its confusing. I know the differnce between the two (balanced and unbalanced) by looking at them, but to try and remember the definitions and explain it without them right in front of me always makes my head spin!

Here's a simple way to look at it! If you have an XLR cabled mic (which is a three pronged socket), even if the cord is XLR on one end and 1/4" on the other, it will usually either require phantom power (from a mixer or amp) or a battery. If you attempt to plug a underpowered XLR mic into the line-in on your computer, chances are it will not be loud enough (if you can hear it at all).

There are exceptions (I remember plugging a camera into a "Tape Out" jack coming out of a mixer and getting horrible buzz and hiss). I think the signal from the mixer was balanced and the camera input was unbalanced (or was that the other way around? It's been a couple of years since that problem). Camera audio has slightly different terminology ("Dynamic" mic inputs, vs Line In, and then some go and use the balanced/unbalanced).


Okay, I'm dizzy now!

Eric

[Craig]

No mic plugged into a line-in jack is going to give you a strong enough signal...you need a preamp to boost the signal up to line-in levels.

For a great, easy-to-understand introduction to the different types of mics (not balanced/unbalanced levels), check out the first part of the tutorial series ehre:

http://www.acousticplayermagazine.com/apm001/techtalk001/homerecord1_001.html

Craig

[WyethDigital]

No mic plugged into a line-in jack is going to give you a strong enough signal...you need a preamp to boost the signal up to line-in levels.

For a great, easy-to-understand introduction to the different types of mics (not balanced/unbalanced levels), check out the first part of the tutorial series ehre:

http://www.acousticplayermagazine.com/apm001/techtalk001/homerecord1_001.html

Craig

Thanks for the link.

:?: It's possible I'm misunderstanding something, Craig (which is maybe why all this makes me dizzy) but I don't think it's entirely true that "no mic" will give you enough power. There are powered mics out there that will give you enough juice. I myself have a Sony wireless lav set that does nicely without a pre amp (unless it's built in), and I've also used a wired lav that produces a good signal. The wireless, of course, has a powered receiver, and the wired lav has the option of either phantom power or battery power. On phantom power the signal strength is not there, but with battery it's fine. The jacks I've plugged them into (computers or cameras) all say "Line-In."

Maybe I'm mistaking (or transposing) "signal" for "level?"

Ah jargon! It's how they keep the amateurs out, and charge an arm and a leg to get us to pay to learn it!


Misundertandingly,

Eric

[jeffoest]

Actually I was wondering about Dominar's original problem - that of taking a line-level mixer output and putting into the computer's mic input - which I don't think works, right? I know you need a pre-amp to go the other way...

The powered mic thing DOES get complex. There are three things at play:

1) phantom power
2) pre-amp
3) powered mic

A powered mic USUALLY (need to read the specs for each one dang-it) means that the mic utilizes more power than what is usually given at a typical mic-in (this is called plug-in power - usually 1.5-5 volts I think). The extra power in the powered mic allows the condensor to respond better and therefore gives the mic a better dyamic range. BUT usually the equivalent mic without the powered part would work in a mic input.

Phantom power is 48 volts and is a different animal. Professional condensor mics (recording studios) require this just to work. Phantom power provided: it works; phantom power not provided: mic doesn't work.

A pre-amp takes a mic-level signal and converts it into a line-level signal. Even a 'powered mic' can use a pre-amp to boost it to line-level. Why do that? Because a line-level input can take a more dyamic signal (or louder) than a mic-level. This is why folks using portable powered (or un-powered) mics at a loud concert will usually have a portable pre-amp so they can go into line-level...

Basically pro mics use phantom power and a pre-amp and go into a mixer at line-level (unless the mixer provides the pre-amp). Portable or consumer type of mics use mic-level inputs and are either powered or non-powered.

Frankly, none of this is all that hard - but the manufacturers tend to make it difficult..... blah....

[WyethDigital]

Frankly, none of this is all that hard - but the manufacturers tend to make it difficult..... blah....

Got that right! I'm getting an education tonight! Thanx!

Eric

[yaz]

****, you shoulda just got a headset/mic thing and plugged into the pc, all that equipment is too crazy and not worth it unless you're getting paid...at least i think so...