The value of the promo.

[speechless]

Promo's can drive a great deal of listeners to your podcast if they get played on a high-traffic podcast (DSC would be my example) but do they hurt more than help with regards to peer-peer swaps?

There are a number of music podcasts that are complimentary to mine, and I'm considering soliciting a promo swap or two, but haven't read any talk about it, nor know if it's really very effective.

I can imagine that competing podcasts (contrived example: Indie Station Foo and Indie Station Bar) might not gain much value?

Any thoughts?

[Filmosity]

You know, it's an interesting thought. I've been trying to get more people to listen to my show, and while I've begun to settle in my listenership, I'd like to get it moving again. A promo on a non-competing show might help. However, I have heard some shows in one genre promoting shows of the same genre as well (i.e., Late Night with Mr. X and Just Julie promoting - or at least talking about - DnD and others). Likewise, Insomnia Radio is a member of AMP which promotes a bunch of the same type of podcasts - namely indie, non-RIAA music.

So I wonder how successful that promo swapping model can be. With the collaborative vibe of podcasting driving it forward at this point in time, it might be a great way to gain audiences for both shows. However, I'm weary of it too because of the traditional radio stations who are promoting their own "podcasts." I don't know what kind of effect this will have on the promo thing, but it's worth a shot. You'll never know unless you try. I think we're at that point in podcasting still.

-Chris

[alissa]

what's the AMP now?

how would one get involved in something like that?

[PaulCasting]

I think the promo will work well for both sides of the issue. None of this stuff is new, it's just a new medium for it all.

Do a search for promoting an email newsletter and you'll find TONS of information about how to get more readers. Simply translate readers into "listeners" and you have a lot of good information.

Just basing it on the number of subscribers isn't going to be enough to determine who it benefits more. There are so many more factors. Maybe you have 1000 subscribers and they have 500. You win, right? Not necessarily. 400 of their subscribers may not have heard of your Podcast, while almost all of yours have heard of theirs. Make sense?

Also, there is something to be said for loyalty. Don't just throw out promos for any show that will promo yours. Find a really good one and then sell it to your audience the same way you would a great movie. If people know you don't recommend junk, they're more likely to respond. The same goes for anything you advertise. Build your credibility and it pays huge dividends.

Paul
www.EastpointRadio.com

[speechless]

I agree with Paul regarding selection of which shows to swap promo's with.

I would think that in order for a promo swap to be worthwhile, both show's listeners need to benefit from learning about the show being promoted. J Random Podcaster who simply regurgitates news and music heard on other casts would be a poor choice for promo swapping.

Perhaps the most beneficial form of podcast promo swap would be between two podcasts who's casters are fans of each other. For example Creot Radio (relax it's an example) is a good match for a swap with Speechless since:

a) It's a (mostly) music show. It's listeners are interested in hearing music.

b) Some (but not all) of their content is complimentary to my own, without matching exactly. The music is different, but the audiences probably overlap.

c) It isn't crap. This isn't ego. I work hard on my cast, and it would appear that they do too.

Filmosity is right too, podcasting is at a point where trial and error isn't going to break anybody.

Alissa: AMP is The Association of Music Podcasting (http://www.inoveryourhead.net/amp/). Essentially a group of podcasters who work together to aggregate and share content. (Gross over-simplification.)

[theFerf]

What has made, and continues to make podcasting so great is the community. Podcasters helping podcasters. it doesnt always have to be about marketing yourself.

One of the features I love most about the DSC is the use of promos. I love it when a podcaster I listen to and respect suggests another show, no matter if it has anything to do with theirs or not. I think to myself, if they like it and i like them, maybe i should give it a whirl.

I have found tons of great podcasts through suggestions by other podcasters and to be honest, am more more prone to listen to their suggestions than just picking casts out of a hat.

[speechless]

Oh certainly podcasters should help one another, but is there a point at which you hurt your own podcast by recommending everything requested of you?

"I love it when a podcaster I listen to and respect suggests another show, no matter if it has anything to do with theirs or not. I think to myself, if they like it and i like them, maybe i should give it a whirl."

What would you think if 4 out of 5 podcast recomendations were crap? I just worry about dilution of the original show.

I guess one of my questions is at how to help yourself and others without devaluing your podcast. It seems like a balancing act.

Additionally, there are spoken recommendations and then there are played promo's. I certainly wouldn't want to play a promo for a show that conflicts with the mood of my show any more than a literary podcast would want to play a promo for nosac.com. It would clash too much. I *would* however do a spoken recommendation. (Well probably not for Nosac...sorry Twan...my mother listens.)

DSC is like 20% promos...they're an integral part of the show. Nothing wrong with that.

*Laugh* all I'm doing is making more questions! Two steps froward...

[cc_chapman]

what's the AMP now?

how would one get involved in something like that?

http://www.musicpodcasting.org

[WyethDigital]

Speechless, I think you're over-analyzing this. If you think it may dilute your show to throw a smattering of Podcasts you're unfamiliar with at your listeners, then your gut reaction is probably right. By all means, only recommend those that you know well and are comfortable with, and if they can reciprocate, all the better!

However, I'm not so sure Podcasts of a similar genre are necessarily competitors (at least not in the traditional model). The beauty of the Podcast is that they are "time shifted," and to listen to one Podcast doesn't mean you have to skip another one. The "competition" may boil down to how much time a subscriber has to listen to Podcasts, which I suspect varies widely from listener to listener, week to week.


Regards,

Eric

[speechless]

Good points Eric...especially regarding timeshifting. And (humor moment) I'm still getting to know my listeners! I think most of them are podcasters at the moment. :) Nothing wrong with that of course, but it's kind of funny in my eyes.

Oh and CC, you got a random plug in show #2 simply because I was too lazy to re-edit my goofiness out. Well, and because I like A.H. :P

[obtuseangle]

Then you've got someone in my situation, who has a very small listenership -- in other words, playing your promo on my show ain't gonna do a whole lot right now -- so I've basically got to rely on goodwill, mainly from those podcasters I've already listened to and established a rapport with.

So ... anyone want to play my promo?

Or at least check it out?

Just in case, I've posted it at http://obtuseangle.libsyn.com/

Why can't I get HTML turned on? Oh, for ****'s sake ...

Steve
The Obtuse Angle

[kickasspodcast]

Promo's can drive a great deal of listeners to your podcast if they get played on a high-traffic podcast (DSC would be my example) but do they hurt more than help with regards to peer-peer swaps?

There are a number of music podcasts that are complimentary to mine, and I'm considering soliciting a promo swap or two, but haven't read any talk about it, nor know if it's really very effective.

I can imagine that competing podcasts (contrived example: Indie Station Foo and Indie Station Bar) might not gain much value?

Any thoughts?

I think its a great idea to have and play promo's.
I will continue to do it into the infinite horizon. I totally agree with your sentiments above. However I don't see podcast's competing because I don't think listeners are quantitative. And the only thing I want is listeners, which I will never be able to put an accurate number on.
You can tell how many people download, but you will never know how many stop after 30 seconds or 5 minutes.

If you are competing for similiar advertising revenue then what you pointed out about the Indie Station stuff is right on.

J Random Podcaster who simply regurgitates news and music heard on other casts would be a poor choice for promo swapping.
Unless you find that J Random Podcaster picks the best music from the other casts and his re-articulation of the news is unique and worthwhile.

But for everyone who does it non-profit or 'takes a loss' we are kind of like dogs in a dog show. We all have our own breed and specialty, but it takes some other governing group to come in and sort us all into groups. Now thats not the best example- but each dog does has its own personality and that is the magic (to me) of podcasting.

Nice post- More promo's the bettter IMHO.
here's ours http://kickasspodcast.com/kickasspromo.mp3
send YOURS to: submit@kickasspodcast.com or kickasspodcast@gmail.com
and we will definitely play it. Just make sure its under 2 min and either a .wav or .mp3

Thanks

[jeffoest]

I'm a bit of a late-comer when it comes to promos. This is because I simply haven't crafted one for us yet (for some reason, I've just put too much 'pressure' on myself to create the 'perfect' uber-promo - lol). At this point, after 18 shows, I find that I'm not really all that anxious to play promos either. Not in an unselfish way really, just in a 'how does that work within our flow?' kind of way.

To be honest though, when I first started listening to podcasts (and DSC) I used to really look forward to the promos. Now I fast-forward through them. I hate to say that, but it's true. They feel more like 'ads' then content I guess even though, admittedly, many are very clever. But they interrupt the flow of what was happening..... boom a promo about something completely different, huh, what happened? .... so I think just like any kind of production, they have to fit into a show in a useful and positive way to add value to both shows.

BUT that said, I still believe in the power of promo-exchange (at least in theory) and once I get a promo that I'm pleased with (how do you describe a show about 'nothing'?) I'll probably look for exchanges but I'll probably do it in a pretty directed and deliberate fashion.

I will have to say that so far, we've grown pretty steadily without a promo which has put less pressure on me to get one. How much of a difference will a promo make? Your guess is as good as mine.

----

I should add one more point. In the back of mind, I feel that all shows probably don't get really good until about show 50. It's like Paul McCartney said about songwriting - "I had to write about 150 songs before I wrote a good one".... so part of me thinks, why have a promo that drives people to my podcast NOW - I'll just wait until it's matured a bit more..... LOL

I joke about it but I do believe there is a level of truth here. I've seen podcasts with one or two shows submitting their promos to DSC. That's a big risk. Becuase without a doubt your show will improve drmatatically within the first 10 shows, you may have given up your window of opportunity to an onslaught of listeners only to find work that is not up to your potential.... Points to ponder...

[Hittman]

Also, there is something to be said for loyalty. Don't just throw out promos for any show that will promo yours. Find a really good one and then sell it to your audience the same way you would a great movie. If people know you don't recommend junk, they're more likely to respond. The same goes for anything you advertise. Build your credibility and it pays huge dividends.

On a similar note, I frequently receive requests to do a "link exchange" on my web site. The first few times it happened I checked out the requesting sites, and found they were all fugly and had nothing to do with anything on my site. I don't even respond to them any more.

OTOH, I'll link to a relevant site in a heartbeat. If they link back to me, great, but they seldom do.

By the same token, exchanging promos just to get attention smacks of desperation. If you like another podcast, recommended it, either in your cast or on your web page. Recommending it in your cast is likely to have a quick but temporary effect. Recommending them on your web page is not only more permanent, but will improve their rankings on Google.

I'm still getting to know my listeners! I think most of them are podcasters at the moment.

I'm guessing that is still the case for most of us. We're entertaining each other. The Great Unwashed Masses haven't arrived yet. But they will, and until they do we've got a chance to hone our craft.

I should add one more point. In the back of mind, I feel that all shows probably don't get really good until about show 50.

I hope the number isn't that high, but you're right, it takes time to learn the craft and get it the way you want it. Hell, it takes time to know for sure what you want. I know there's a huge difference between my first three podcasts and my last two (#6 and #7.) I'm almost where I want to be, but it's still going to take a while to get there.

[jeffoest]

LOL - true - I'm probably exaggerating when I say 50 ;-) But you get the point....

[vox_monitor]

I think the thing about promos is that they are best used without a "swap" arrangement.

Once our current promo contest is done, we will likely begin just playing promos when we feel like it for shows that we like. And we'll probably have a little "good shows not to forget about" segment as well, in which we briefly revisit some of the good shows, or just mention shows that have caught our attention.

We're in kind of a unique situation regarding conflict of interest concerns in some circumstances, but even if we weren't, I wouldn't be into "swapping" promo play. I'd be into sharing with listeners stuff that I thought was cool. And I'd figure they might do the same back, as a happy incidental outcome.

[kickasspodcast]

I think the thing about promos is that they are best used without a "swap" arrangement.

Amen, couldn't agree more. We go out of our way to GET promo's because we love to get a slice of a show that usaully we end up subscribing to. But you ask Vox or anyone else- we never, ever expect someone to "return the favor". Trust me- its hard to get people to send you promos or post links to their promo, I have gotten like maybe 15-ish and have actively tried to get them. I like having a big group of them to choose from, because if I hear a particulary good show that week, I will replay their promo because I liked their show. But let it be known, some of my fav podcasts have no promo at all.

Jack

[vox_monitor]

I think the thing about promos is that they are best used without a "swap" arrangement.

Amen, couldn't agree more. We go out of our way to GET promo's because we love to get a slice of a show that usaully we end up subscribing to. But you ask Vox or anyone else- we never, ever expect someone to "return the favor". Trust me- its hard to get people to send you promos or post links to their promo, I have gotten like maybe 15-ish and have actively tried to get them. I like having a big group of them to choose from, because if I hear a particulary good show that week, I will replay their promo because I liked their show. But let it be known, some of my fav podcasts have no promo at all.

Jack

You know, KAPC, our review of your show is done, but it has proven to be a really difficult one to edit. In fact, the most difficult edit of all shows to date. We talked for about twice as long as usual about your show, and I'm having trouble paring it all down to size. I should work on it right now...