Something to Consider - Or at least keep on the Radar

[ferg]

I think we all know that Podcasting, as fantastic as it is, is going to be overrun with commercial broadcasts. Some are here already, and I don't view that as a bad thing. I would love it if my local radio talk shows would post podcasts as well. However, considering the "benefit" of not being buried in the rankings, does it make sense, at some point, to differentiate between the commercial (i.e. radio shows who post their programming in podcast form) and the independent (podcast only) podcasts?

I realize this line may be blurred down the road. It may get to the point where some podcasts, and podcasting in general become SO popular that they can actually truly compete with radio broadcasts in terms of number of listeners.

I'm just saying think about it. Maybe there need to be 2 sections at some point...which would give an opportunity for those of us who do this for free, and opportunity to be featured. I know we all do this free (or most of us) at this point....

[Insomnia Radio]

Exactly.

There is a substantial difference in my eyes between Radio/Commercial shows with an RSS feed, and podcasts done in someone's mother's basement when the kids are napping and the moon is glowing. A Podcast is recorded straight to the hard drive...

Ya know. I'd like to push for the distinction.
Commercial/Radio Podcasts on one page.
REAL podcasts on the other ;-)

Who's with me?

[cid92]

Who's with me?

Let's go.......ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Michael B]

There is a substantial difference in my eyes between Radio/Commercial shows with an RSS feed, and podcasts done in someone's mother's basement when the kids are napping and the moon is glowing. A Podcast is recorded straight to the hard drive...

Says you. :D

I say a "podcast" is an audio file that I can get through a client that utilizes XML and RSS. The recording method is irrelevant to me, as is the content.

[ferg]

I do feel that a podcast is a podcast is a podcast, meaning, that, basically, anything iPodder can pickup is a podcast. However, that doesn't mean that there's no value in further categorization of podcasts based on their origins.

In not too long, someone is going to come along and lower the geek factor of podcasting, making it more accessible to the public. Let's face it - right now, the concept of copying and pasting URLs to XML files is probably not a "primetime" way of bringing podcasting to the general populus. Once this happens, once commercial organizations can reach millions for only the cost of bandwidth, we're going to see a lot more commercial podcasts. As commercial podcasts, I anticipate that most of these will have, err...commercials.

But in either case, the thing that I love about podcasts are that they are not commercial, that they are real, and that they don't *have* commercials. I think that at some point, this site, or one like it, will have to make a distinction between the two, so I can find the podcasts I want. If I have to wade through thousands of radio station generated podcasts to find podcasts similar to those that are popular today, I'm not sure I'd stick with it. If I want to listen to the radio, I'll turn off my iPod and turn on my radio.

There are exceptions to this, of course. There are radio shows I wouldn't mind hearing, if I could listen to them at my convenience, but I still need to be able to easily locate the type of podcast Mike B is speaking of.

In any case, we're not there yet, but it could happen at any moment.

[Michael B]

Right now that means that Coverville, Dawn and Drew, and many others need flagged as commercial shows, due to their paid advertisments, and should be taken out of the main rankings.

Then we could start in on all the plugs that people put in for other shows. Are they compensated or not? Is reciprocation "payment", thus disqualifying the show from the Podcast Olympics because of the loss of true amateur status? I know, I know - I'm being silly, but the point is valid. Once you define "commercial" or "radio" you have started down the slippery slope.

The market will sort itself out as new developments hit, just as it has with everthing else. There will be all kinds of grassroots sites that cull the best from the many coming podcast studios as well as the indies. Maybe Podcast Alley will still serve as a good point for all the flavors of shows, maybe not.

[podcastnyc]

Ask yourself this question. Why do podcasts need ranking and voting in the first place? If someone wants to broadcast their content, who cares how many people think it's great or think it sucks?

People who market stuff, that's who. Take away the Nielsens and the Arbitron ratings and marketers wouldn't touch TV and Radio. In order to have value to a marketer, the distribution of content needs to be tracked or rated. That's why the podcast alley rating means so much to SOME podcasters. Podcast Alley has become the default tool for determining the popularity of a podcast.

Unfortunately for marketers, the Podcast Alley ratings are completely unscientific and open for widespread fraud. That's why I love podcasting. It can't be reliably tracked and that will keep most mass marketers out of the game for the time being. Think about it. If person A downloads my podcast, they can email or otherwise distribute the content without the knowledge of any tracking device.

Don't fret, if you're intent on selling someone else's crap through your podcast I'm sure that the marketers will find a way to "lock on" to podcast files so they can be tracked from a user's computer to a server on the internet.

My opinion on marketing and podcasting is well known (http://www.podcastnyc.net/pcr/2005/03/podcast-nyc-pop-culture-rant-8.html). Shilling for someone else is the most unimaginative way to earn money off of content. And once you're selling for someone else you automatically take their interests over your personal interests and the interests of your audience.

I wish all folks well with their podcast efforts and hope this thing of ours (sounds very mafia-ish doesn't it?) does not turn into a different version of the current state of radio with commercials inserted before during and after our favorite shows and personalities in it simply for the dough.

[jeffoest]

I sort of equate podcasting to just another form of digitally distributed media and towards that end envision a future with several different business models for the more commercial broadcasts (some subscription, some pay-as-you-go, some with embedded advertising, some free but in support of another commercial venture, and some new models I'm sure).

Just like websites and blogs there will also be room for smaller 'narrowcasters' that will offer their free content to small audiences (maybe even just family and friends) for the love of self expression. There will be many more of these than commercial ventures (the 'long tail' phenomena) and that's great for diversity.

On ratings and audience sizes - advertisers will certainly need better verification of estimated sizes - I suspect that's where some of these emerging 'network' models' may come into play - i.e. offering services such as reliable and verifiable download stats. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see some sort of 'clearing house' (kind of like an ASCAP-ish thing!) that would provide this service to advertisers that each commercial podcast would pay into. I would guess that companies like FeedBurner are already starting to explore that space.

But back to your point - Just as CNN.com is not classified as a 'commercial' venture or Bob's Blog is not classified as a 'non commercial venture', I doubt users will really need the distinction and advertisers would probaby not welcome it it the long run.

[radioclash]

Chasing after votes as the same as chasing after money. It tends to lead to bad blood somewhere in the chain. Tactical voting, competitions, bribes, vote rigging, whatever.

What I find useful is the media reporting that takes PodcastAlley's voting at face value and reports it (Dawn and Drew - #1 podcast etc - it is, but where did they get tat figure from?). Chris you should push back when they do that cos it's obviously come from here, and you should get some press out of it ;-)

I prefer feedback to be honest - it lets me know someone is listening and is more useful. I'd rather not know numbers that are listening tho, like being top 10 in the votes it would affect the type of show I do.

[Craig]

I prefer feedback to be honest - it lets me know someone is listening and is more useful.
I agree.

Craig

[BSquared]

Personally I don't think you're going to be able to distinguish between commercial and non-commercial podcasasts, however ideal that might be. Previous posters are correct - that would not distinguish between Dan Klass or Reel Reviews who presumably got paid about $1.55 (i.e. not a whole lot of $$) for being 'sponsored' by the screen competition and a podcast which is from a commercial radio station.

What you could do though is distinguish podcasts which are ONLY available via RSS feed versus ones which are ALSO available via Internet Radio or real world radio. Potential listeners could then make an assumption about how commercial the nature of the content might be.

Cheers, Bsquared

[robaustin]

I think you have to keep in mind that once "regular folks" start getting into listening to podcasts (and it's already happening, though very slowly) - that the line for them will be indistinguishable.

Think about blogs - people read blogs just as they read other websites. Everything is a website - just as every podcast will be a show. I turned my relatively non-techie friend onto a few podcasts and he's hooked. He doesn't think of them as "oh this is non-commercial, and this other thing here is commercial" - it's all just "content for my media player."

And as far as being overrum with commercial stuff - that is already starting to happen. Virgin Radio is already doing a "best of" their morning show for each day. You can bet once the licensing issues are worked out - you are going to start seeing music podcasts from commercial stations. Maybe the station does their own top 30 countdown - they'll podcast - knowing that they now have a way to get their name through their content into a listener's iPod. Public radio is onto it already - NPR has a few shows as podcasts already.

It's here. It's a matter of how each podcaster chooses to market and make THEIR show stand out from the pack. Just as a blogger has to do.

--*Rob

[StandardTime]

I know the Podcast alley people dont like it when I post this url
as it was erased last time (so much for freedom of speech)
but there are other sites tracking popularity and they look
nothing like each other.

http://www.podcastingnews.com/forum/links.php?func=tophits

[elle]

I know the Podcast alley people dont like it when I post this url
as it was erased last time (so much for freedom of speech)
but there are other sites tracking popularity and they look
nothing like each other.

http://www.podcastingnews.com/forum/links.php?func=tophits

Hi

The Podcasting News rankings do look very different, but there's good reason. The method used to rank podcasts is very different at each site.

The PA ranking is based on votes and ratings, so it will tend to reflect well on podcasts that have passionate listeners and ones that focus on driving voters to the Alley.

The Podcasting News rankings are based on user activity with the PN Podcast Directory, which should make it more reflective of the interest listeners have in various topics and podcasts.

If you look at the rankings at both sites, you'll see how the results reflect the methodology. At PA, DnD ranks tops, because they push traffic to Podcast Alley. At Podcasting News, Science@NASA is tops, because its of interest to a broad range of people interested in podcasts.

Neither approach is perfect. Both are useful tools, though, and are the best that are currently available.

More accurate rankings are technically possible, but would involve monitoring individual client downloads, which many people would view as intrusive, and compromising their privacy.

Hope this helps!

Elle

[travishoffman]

I really don't anticipate podcasters being "overcome" by commercial radio shows podcasting stints. I think a listener is going to be able to discern one from another. Given the fact that the origin of podcasting is non-radio rebroadcasts I think that the little guys who podcast will always be able to give their 2cents with out commercial radio podcasts choking them.

...And if i'm wrong screw it, I'm not out any money.

[Craig]

I don't think people are worried so much about losing the ability to discern one from the other so much as to find the little guys. If commercial radio shows come in to podcasting and bring their audiences with them, then the smaller shows are going to fall down to the bottom of any vote-driven lists where they are mixed in with the commercial shows. Hence the request for distinction.

Craig