Asking for donations = NO CLASS

[The Specialist]

I think I echo the sentiments of a lot of people on here when I say that I don't really care who is cheating to get more votes, or who is ordering whom to vote against whom, or who is #1, or #2, or #10,000. It is just a silly popularity contest using a voting system that may be legitimate, or that some people may rig, but either way, it really has no bearing whatsoever on the quality of the show itself.

But I would like to raise another issue that I have not seen addressed.

Am I the only one who is bothered by the shows who ask for "donations" on their websites? Am I the only one who finds that practice extremely low class and incredibly disgusting?

I thought podcasting was supposed to be a grassroots, renegade, underground movement, a movement led by people who put on a show simply because they enjoyed doing it, because it is fun, because it is a hobby (and a relatively inexpensive hobby at that).

Am I the only one who thinks the entire thing is cheapened by someone who solicits money for making a podcast?

And this is not to say that I object to all donations. I am all for Coverville, who seeks sponsorship so that he can pay license fees and legally broadcast music online. I don't care if someone knits winter hats and sells them through their podcast. I don't have a problem if Adam Curry hocks coffee makers on his website, or if someone sells advertising time on a podcast to a legitimate business, or if someone like Chris asks for a little help in running this incredibly helpful site, a site which is so clearly being abused by the very people he is trying to support.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I just find it offensive when someone seems to say "Here's my podcast. Now please give me some money so I can go buy an iPod." The whole thing just reeks of the panhandling, con-artist, money-grubbing, corporate radio culture that I thought podcasting was rebelling against.

And if you are one of the suckers who actually gives your money to any of these people, please do us all a favor: Give it to the Red Cross, United Way, Salvation Army, ASPCA, your local soup kitchen, or some poor kid in Thailand who lost everything when a pretty big wave killed a few hundred thousand people a few months ago, in case you forgot about that already.

In the end, it makes me wonder what this big voting fuss is really all about. I can only assume that the more people who listen to your show, the better chance you have of getting more donations. It makes you wonder, at the end of the day, if this whole voting fiasco isn't just about money after all.

If you ask someone for their hard earned money, then please offer them something in return. And your crappy 20 minute podcast, that I would like to think you produce for the sheer fun of doing it, does not count.

Grow up, get some class, and buy your own ****ing iPod.

The Specialist

specialist@specialistandakg.com

[AA]

Couldn't have said it better. Although, I don't necessarily blame the people that ask for money as much as the idiots that actually give it to them. Hey, I can use a photo iPod as well. Anyone want to give me money so I can buy it? Keep it real.

[Ian]

Am I the only one who is bothered by the shows who ask for "donations" on their websites? Am I the only one who finds that practice extremely low class and incredibly disgusting?

Doubtful. There are lots of people like you in the world.

I thought podcasting was supposed to be a grassroots, renegade, underground movement,

Like all good ideas, they are usually started by one person, and spread. Sorry to rain on your parade.

a movement led by people who put on a show simply because they enjoyed doing it, because it is fun, because it is a hobby (and a relatively inexpensive hobby at that).

What's wrong with getting paid to do your hobby? Especially if you do it well.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I just find it offensive when someone seems to say "Here's my podcast. Now please give me some money so I can go buy an iPod."

No one's forcing you to listen to podcasts you don't like. This "community" should be big enough to where you can find shows that don't do things you don't like. Your time would be better spent seeking them out and listening to them instead of bitching and moaning.

The whole thing just reeks of the panhandling, con-artist, money-grubbing, corporate radio culture that I thought podcasting was rebelling against.

"Panhandling", maybe. But "money-grubbing" and "corporate"? You just like to throw around those words, don't you?

Oh, and "Podcasting" is not an individual, it is a "community". That means it's made up of individuals who are doing whatever is in their self interest. Podcasting does not "rebel" against anything. Nor will your carpings affect what podcasting does or does not do.

And if you are one of the suckers who actually gives your money to any of these people, please do us all a favor: Give it to the Red Cross, United Way, Salvation Army, ASPCA, your local soup kitchen, or some poor kid in Thailand who lost everything when a pretty big wave killed a few hundred thousand people a few months ago, in case you forgot about that already.

What's wrong with giving money to both? Oh, I know... it's wrong because you deem it so.

In the end, it makes me wonder what this big voting fuss is really all about. I can only assume that the more people who listen to your show, the better chance you have of getting more donations. It makes you wonder, at the end of the day, if this whole voting fiasco isn't just about money after all.

Allow me to clear this up for you: You're **** right it's about money. I like doing my hobby and getting paid for it. The corollary of that is, if people didn't like me doing my hobby, I'd not be getting paid. To everyone else out there who feels the same way: don't apologize for it!

Free Talk Live is going to be number one, We're going to be the podcast receiving the press attention. Press attention=more listeners=more affiliates=more of me and my friends doing our hobby and getting paid.

If you ask someone for their hard earned money, then please offer them something in return. And your crappy 20 minute podcast, that I would like to think you produce for the sheer fun of doing it, does not count.

Do you believe that listeners who are donating money to these podcasts are suckers? That they don't think prior to pulling out their wallets? Let people make their own decisions about what they will and won't spend their money on.

Grow up, get some class, and buy your own ****ing iPod.

Shut up, go find some shows you like, and listen to them.

[ferg]

I don't see myself ever having a virtual tip jar on my site, but, then again, I don't ever see myself having an audience large enough that it would do any good. That said, I see nothing wrong with it. We all pay for entertainment.

Do you stand outside the movie theatre yelling at people, telling them they should give that $10 to tsunami relief instead of to a movie theatre?

So, when someone with a very popular podcast puts a tip jar out there, for those who want to pay them for the entertainment services they've provided, are they really doing anything wrong? I've yet to hear anyone begging for cash on their actual podcast.

In a sense, podcasters are like street performers. They do their thing, hoping someone will get some enjoyment out of it, and feel that that enjoyment has some cash value, and give them a "tip". You can give it to them or not. There's nothing wrong with it.

[cc_chapman]

I have zero problem with people asking for donations. People have had tip jars on blogs for years or opened up donation links for various fund raisers for personal gains.

I know I've heard of podcasters looking at the NPR type of model. Small micro donations towards the podcasts you listen to on a regular basis. It's an interesting idea.

I've gone back and forth wondering about the donation side of things. I haven't done it and most likely won't at this time, but it has crossed my mind.

I'm just a firm believer in the phrase "to each their own...."

[Cookiepuss]

There is nothing wrong with donations. I have been running an Open Source project for over 3 years and asked for donations. It costs money for bandwidth etc. When you are using hundreds of GBs a month it adds up. Plus there is the time in actually working on the project. So you have to cover your overhead. Plus if you provide people with information even for entertainment there is nothing wrong with getting paid so you can eat etc. Do you go to the bookstore and walk out with books?

Plus I'd rather ask listeners or site vistors for donations instead of filling my site with banner ads or put ads in podcasts. So it is a trade off. I'd never tell someone who couldn't afford it to donate money. . .

[waynerightbroadcatching]

The only ones that should be asking for donations are prople who are putting up sites like this one to host the podcast revolution. This guy is doing a great service to those of us trying to learn and yearn for more information. nyone else needs to get their marketing 101 out and get their own funding on their own. It costs almost nothing to a podcast and you can get hostded for $5 a month on libsyn.com

By the way please make all checks out to cash (on the advice of my tax consultant)

[yaz]

I AIN'T ASKIN FOR NO DONATION!!

YO! IS COOKIEPUSS THERE? I NEED TO TALK TO COOKIEPUSS!

[hashref]

I think the issue of donations is intent. Persoanlly, I don't really dig podcasters asking for donations to buy things for themselves. Though I wouldn't really donate to a cause such as this, I personally don't care if podcasters ask. It really isn't any of my business anyway. Just because I don't care for the practice, it doesn't mean that it is wrong or in bad taste.

However, I have had the thought that I may, sooner or later, ask for donations to help me cover costs that I incur from having a more popular podcast (though I certainly don't at this moment). But should I ever be so fortunate to get more listeners I may start asking for donations.

I did have the thought, "What if I made more then I need? What would I do with it?" Well... I had the though of using that money to support the artists that I feature on my podcast. Given that I have a show that promotes independent music, why not go all the way and throw some money back at the artists in a way that is meaningful. Buy some studio time, help them pay for CD manufacturing, etc....

I guess my point is that I don't frown on podcasters asking for donations. But would I, as a listener, donate money for some guy to buy an iPod? Probably not. We should leave this matter up to the people who listen to our podcasts. Let them decide what is in poor taste and what they want to do with their money.

[jeffoest]

Asking for donations for your podcast at this time in the podcasting life-cycle will turn off some people to your podcast (this poll shows 1/3 or so deem it 'classless') simply because most people don't do this now.

If you ask for donations, you face that risk. I, personally, think it's too important to build an audience right now than it is to potentially turn some off, but, hey, everybody's different and have different ideas of how to grow their sites.

It doesn't particularly offend me to see it. At the end of the day, the content in the podcast is more important to me.

[simulacrum]

i can't imagine why you'd get angry about people asking for donations!

if someone needs a donation to continue. gets one. continues podcasting - then that is great. In fact it shows the popularity of podcasting as a whole.

Also, when podcasting gets more popular, there will be no stopping people making money from them - and I don't see what's wrong with that either.

Ultimately, if it's no good, people wont listen!

Chris
www.listentothestars.co.uk (no donation needed!)

[yaz]

i don't know about you people, but we started our show for fun and to see if people would actually listen, so far we have acheived both, this is a hobby for most of us, with the exception of the losers that are actual radio shows that have to scrape the podcasting circuit because no one really listens to their real radio show, and when we engage in a hobby, we usually spend some money on it, im not gonna go asking for donations to support a hobby that i engage in, thats just stupid, people shouldn't have to feel they should pay us to listen to our nonsense and we as podcasters shouldn't feel that people should pay us to keep doing what we do...

p.s. fishsticks are tools of the devil

[spaz]

People can ask for money all they want...like bums on the street or squeegie kids, but I tend to agree with yaz..I pay for all my hobbies..of course, if anyone wants to give me free hockey stuff I'll take it..unless it's from that dude who crapped his pants on the ice.

[thefly]

Personally, I can't stand people who ask to the point of demanding. However, I've got a "donate gas money" button on the Bugcast page. Not that anyone has ever PUSHED it. :cry:

What about contributing to say, "Hey, I like what you're doing and I want you to keep it up."

Eventually, if a cast gets popular enough to outgrow their hosting or "hobby"status, they're going to need to bring in something to keep themselves afloat. I would MUCH rather a producer approach me asking for a buck or two (that's all it takes if you have a good number of listeners) than get product crammed down my throat. That's no to say mentioning or "promoting" products are bad. But commercializing just gives me a bad feeling. "This podcast brought to you by. . . " is different than "Buy this because I said so"

Look at the model. If I pay $100 a year for web hosting, and have 300 listeners, only one in three of my listeners need to drop a buck in the gas money fund in order for the show to be self-sustaining. If they all donate a buck (and I'm talking a dollar a YEAR), I can afford to upgrade my recording setup. This makes the quality better.

This may be a hobby for some. A business for others. I just don't want to be driven poor doing it.

[yaz]

hey, if people are willing to throw us some dough because they like what we're doing, im not gonna have a problem with it, but im not going to ask people to do so, same with your hobbies, if you goto the shop and buy whatever it is you need to maintain your other hobbies and the clerk gives it to you, will you refuse it?

as far as the guy that **** himself, that was just all too funny, it happened about three years ago, but as a matter of fact we were bustin his chops last night about it after one of his games that i reffed...too funny when an adult **** themselves...

[Dweezil2000]

I've got a donation link on Distorted View's site, but I never really mention it during the podcast. I think it bores most listeners to keep hearing about how poor you are, the cost of podcasting, etc.

I'm thinking about setting up an NPR-like pledge drive show on an upcoming DV, where every 2-3 minutes I interupt myself and plead for money to continue my fine podcasting/drug habit.

The money will come rolling in! Bahahaha..Eat my dirt, chumps!

xoxo BFF forever,
-Tim

Distorted View Daily
http://www.distortedview.com/show

[travishoffman]

I don't see any problem with a person donating to a podcast that they really enjoy. I think that it might be considered tasteless for the podcaster to beg for donations on their show..therefore giving a desperate feel, but simply having a donation option on your website isn't bad. We have one, but I never really plug it on the show, I figure if people care about the show they'll check out the website and if they're inclined they'll send a little monetary love our way...not that I expect that to ever happen though.

[RED BAR RADIO.com]

Why does this guy think that donations pay for iPods? I personally don't have a "DONATE NOW!" buton on my site, but I have excepted donations in the past. A podcast or an internet radio show is usually offering a free show - free entertainment for the listeners - usually with little to no commercials.

Not every podcast is as crappy and poorly produced is yours. Some actually have budgets, real gear, things to say, and do this for a living.

Now, I tend to think I know a little something about class - YOU seem to think you know about it as well. Talking about how non-classy it is to ask for donations. Well, lets see how much class you have - here is a picture I found of you: http://redbarradio.com/no_class.JPG - You're sooooooooooooo classy.

[yaz]

the people that podcast for a living are the ones that have failing radio shows and are desperate to use anyway possible to get people to listen to their shows, if you're on the airwaves stay off the internet...

and if people want to ask for donations to buy an i-pod, so be it, hey people, i need some new hockey gear...hit me up!

[RED BAR RADIO.com]

Quoting "YAZ": "the people that podcast for a living are the ones that have failing radio shows and are desperate to use anyway possible to get people to listen to their shows"

How do you come to this conclusion "yaz"?

You also said: "if you're on the airwaves stay off the internet... " - what do you mean by this?

What do you do that makes you such an expert on the subject? I'd like to know.

Thanks

[Ian]

the people that podcast for a living are the ones that have failing radio shows and are desperate to use anyway possible to get people to listen to their shows, if you're on the airwaves stay off the internet...

First, can you please point out which podcasters are making "a living" or even a decent amount of money off of doing it?

Also, who are you attacking here? My show? I'll withhold a response until I know for sure.

[RED BAR RADIO.com]

I don't think podcasting ALONE will really "bring in the dollars" at this point. I don't think there are enough subscribers yet. However, I have made decent money off of my show prior to podcasting, using advertisers that were unfamiliar with ther "internet game".

Most larger companies don't have a problem spending $100 on a 30-second commercial that will run for a week (depending on the amount of listeners you have). We usually offer a package deal that includes the audio production of the commercial, as well as the air time - and a link on our site.

As long as you have a nice presentation (well-designed media kit), and the drive to obtain these advertisers, you will be able to find them.

[garybibb]

yeah Yaz, I am withholding a response too you amatuer podcaster. What are you trying to insinuate? **** you for attacking the people who have real radio shows and are trying to get in on podcasting. You may have to sit in time out on our next show.

Burp.

[RED BAR RADIO.com]

Bibb and Yaz are a bunch of numbskulls. I bet whatever they do, whether its podcating, or whatever, is pure crap.

Any one who signs off with "burp", is a classless bum.

Yeah - thats right Bibb - drop dead.

[Ian]

I won't make any assumptions about anyone, I just want to know who the
have failing radio shows
comment was directed at.

[yaz]

easy, the ones who took offense to the comment...

[garybibb]

Awww man, I've been told to drop dead. All because of a lil' burp. I'd hate to see what I would have been told to do if I passed gas.

I wish I had so much class that I could spend my days spamming a podcasting message board, but alas I think I shall never acheive such heights.

Ack, I think I feel myself dropping dead. . .ack. . .

One last thing before I go though. . .

BURP.

[BSquared]

The Specialist asked "Maybe I'm wrong, but I just find it offensive when someone seems to say "Here's my podcast. Now please give me some money so I can go buy an iPod."

Do you find buskers offensive too?

IMHO you ARE wrong - personally I don't mind being asked to consider donating a few bucks for having received great entertainment. IF the alternative is that I no longer get to hear because they just can't scrape together enough $$ to keep themselves in microphones and bandwidth then I say ask and ye shall receive.

So far, no one has held a gun at my head to give them money.

[BSquared]

And off topic but in keeping with the thread....

Who cares if a radio show also podcasts? I sometimes listen to Free Talk Live even though I live in Australia and am hihghly unlikely to move to New Hampshire - I still find it thought provoking on occasion. I would never get to hear this if not for the podcast.

I also listen to some great current events stuff from the BBC and an Australian radio network called Triple J - I'm at work when my favourite show is on so I listen to the podcast instead - yay for me.

I also like Coverville. I also like some of the "podcasting from my bedroom/lounge room/kitchen" podcasts. To me, humble-listener-never-going-to-produce-my-own-podcast, it is all entertainment and I like having as wide a choice as possible. Thank you to all of you who've made me laugh/think/dance(badly).

[Ian]

You're awesome, Bsquared!

Thanks for listening!
Ian

[Version3]

I'm not going to bother adding the same wood to the same fire... all the right things have been said about why tipping or donating is acceptable. People do art out of hobby, passion, emotional outlet or whatever. Eventually if they are lucky their art is good enough to be appreciated by others, and they wan't to continue doing it. But they want to be able to pay the bills too, and if they are still paying to do their artform, both may not be possible when you consider:

If they have 1,000 subscribers downloading their feed at 10-15 MB per show, they are pulling 10 to 15 GB per month easily, not including actual site traffic, one-off downloads and such. I know MANY people are using services that won't allow that kind of traffic without more $$$. How about the fact that many of the services being used have you dumped on a shared server with 250-500 other domains, maybe even podcasts getting traffic at the same time as you? You want to overcome that performance problem? $$$ strike again. So you can quit doing your art form (podcasting) or keep your show exactly the same (grassroots style) while supporting a larger audience. How are you going to do that, start counterfeiting US dollars in your podcasts? No. Donations.

The arguement can be made forever about why it's okay... I think the real discussion here that was getting out of hand is if it is classless or not. I do not think it is in bad taste to facilitate donations with a button on your site to show support for you efforts. I think it IS in bad taste to try and direct people there or draw attention to it, but this is a sliding scale. If you had a ton of subscribers and didn't want to have the big bill of a dedicated box and fat bandwidth taking your rent money, it might be slightly more acceptable than tasteless. However, I think asking for donations to run your show, then buying goodies and announcing it might cross the line. But, if you are not asking for them to "run your show" but are just leaving the jar out... aren't you entitled to spend it on what you want, and announce it if you want? It's a tip, right? But I think it was said pretty well before, weigh your risk with a growing audience and growing medium before you throw the performers hat out on the sidewalk.

For those that are actually just bent out of shape about people asking for donations and/or getting paid for your hobby: I hope if you hate people who do this than you also think the following people are classless:

Actors. Acting started out as a hobby and an art form. As production became more expensive, and performances became more appreciated, admissions were charged to cover costs. As they grew further, participants were paid for their involvement. Hobby to pro. -those bastards, right?

Pro Atheletes. I know you can all follow the logic here. You loved to play football in the street, you got pretty good at it and somehow went pro and make 400 zillion dollars a second. Those are easy targets. What about the hard working pro ball players that aren't stars? They make pretty good money in most cases... hobby to pro. Are they classless too? Some of them even went out asking for a job doing it, they tried out.

Artistic Painters.
Musicians.
Sculptors.
In some cases even public speakers.

Get a handle on what's really classless before you just make blanket statements. It's more likely that you think it was in bad taste that someone (and most of us know what show was being referred to) took "tip" money and bragged about the iPod they bought with it. Target that, not donations in general.

I'll tell you what's really classless... people getting so personal and offensive with others that they don't know at all.

[Version3]

PS: sorry about the mile long post... I realized I went keyboard crazy when I decided it was too long to proofread or spellcheck. :shock:

[yaz]

your expression matches your post!

[yaz]

oh, and by the way, the pro athletes aren't asking you for the money, the dumbasses who pay the high ticket prices and buy all their memorabilia give it to them, so it is a little different...the point of this post was not about getting paid for a hobby, it was about begging for donations...

[Version3]

I know and I agree... I was merely illustrating the progression logic. The pro-atheletes are at the end of the chain of evelotion of hobby to professional. If one completely hates the stages between, they have to hate the end result as well.


You are right, my expression did match my post! :D

[yaz]

ive been arguing about the pro sport issue for a long time with anyone that will argue with me about it, the cycle will only end when people stop depending on watching other people play and do something themselves, if you do it, you have no need to watch someone else do it, i still think asking for money is a little cheesy...

[jeffoest]

Not sure what's the argument on pro sports athletes is. The market tries it's best to deliver market value to them. It's not always perfectly efficient since the population of pro athletes is relatively small but I think in the macro - it works to be pretty close.

Sure - the obvious contraction is people like to 'recreationally' complain about how much athletes make while financially supplying that marketplace. Oh well - it's not a new or particularly original observation. I remember hearing compaints about that 30 years ago.

[Version3]

Not sure what's the argument on pro sports athletes is.

I didn't do a very good job of illustrating the progression there... the point has been made that people who do things for a hobby should keep it a hobby and should not be paid for it. Pro sports is one extreme of the spectrum in which people are doing just that, getting paid for a hobby they became good at. I was not trying to attach it directly to donations for podcasting, but was making a point toward the more general statement that people shouldn't expect to be paid for their hobbies.

Sorry for the confusion I started on that one.

[yaz]

sorry, im not 30 yet, so i can't know about an arguement 30 years ago, but i still think that people begging for money for a podcast is classless, i'd rather give it to the vietnam vet on the corner who gave it all for this country when he was called upon and now the government's shitting on him, once again, if people are willing to give you money for your show, great, but begging or asking for it, is kinda silly...

[Version3]

As I made my case, and posted my general views on things, I gotta admit that things like this (http://www.dawnanddrew.com/dnds_bb/viewtopic.php?t=228) quite annoy me. I don't care that D & D didn't ask for it specifically, it just feels like high school (hey go ask everyone to get us something so they won't think we want it) and feels basically wrong to me, even though nothing specifically points to that it seems to be what happened. It still feels that way. I'd be much more likely to donate to a show because they work hard at putting out good product. What they do with the donations doesn't need to be announced or part of fund raising effort. I realize that they may not be behind the effort, but the whole thing just feels cheap. It's just my opinion and not a blast at the show hosts themselves, just a statement that despite the case I made before, this just seems wrong to me somehow. Maybe it's the "give money so we can buy them a computer that's probably better than yours" feel the whole thing has. Oh well, supporters of that show will likely donate enough to make it possible, and all I have to do is not give at all. I just thought it somewhat relevant to the subject of this thread.[/url]

[yaz]

im still trying to figure out that expression, did someone poop near you or are you casting an evil spell on someone, but its about as disturbing as a guy with fish sticks in his nose

[Version3]

You love fishsticks don't you? Vande Camp, Fisherboy... do you have a fav?

The expression is just something weird I came up with. Several years ago when I was still employed in the corporate sector, I was elected for some "profile of success" article (which was a bullshit way of recognizing people for hard work without giving them a dime) and since I was responsible for corporate video/photography on top of the graphic design stuff, I was given the option to submit a photo or have them take it. Guess which one I chose? I thought it would be a nice change from all of the cheesy shot in the board room or glamour shots photos that had appeared there before. Most people seem to really enjoy it.

[jeffoest]

LOL - Actually the story of 'the photo' is as good as the photo!

[BSquared]

Yaz wrote...but i still think that people begging for money for a podcast is classless, i'd rather give it to the vietnam vet on the corner who gave it all for this country when he was called upon and now the government's shitting on him, once again, if people are willing to give you money for your show, great, but begging or asking for it, is kinda silly...

But also wrotei still think asking for money is a little cheesy...

Come on Yaz which is it? either you are against begging/asking for money or not. I mean the only way you know the guy on the corner wants your money is because he somehow asks for it right? He has a sign or a cup or he says "gimme some money I'm a vietnam veteran" or something (unless you give EVERYONE standing on corners your money).

So it's OK for him to ask but not for a podcaster to ask? Podcasters have less class than Vietnam Vets? What about if there was a Vietnam Vet doing a podcast?

In this wonderful wacky zany semi-free world in which we live I say it's OK for everyone to ask - it's not like you HAVE to give - there are plenty of representatives of charitable organisations who knock on my door and request some money so they can continue their good works - if I like the sound of what they do I give them some money - if I don't, I don't - but praise whatever god you believe in we're still free enough to let 'em all ask.

And if you think it's OK to give podcasters money how else am I gonna know how to donate if they don't ask - if they have no "donate here" button what am I supposed to do? send my credit card number to an email address?

Live and let live Yaz

[yaz]

hey, i didn't say they should outlaw it or you should have your head bashed in for asking for donations, but i just think its somewhat classless, and besides, how many classless things are going on in society right now anyway?

[BSquared]

And I guess that's what got under my skin - who decides what is "classy" and what isn't? Sounds like you're trying to claim the moral high ground to me, and it always bugs me when anyone uses a personal judgement or philosophy to decree what is classier/better/more noble etc. People do what they gotta do - as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else it's ok by me.

[yaz]

nah, i only claim my gas, so that right there puts me pretty low on the chain of morality according to most people's standards, there are alot things worse than asking for money...

[speechless]

I'd ask for donations if my bandwidth was being over-run. That's about it. Otherwise I'd sell t-shirts or some such if I wanted to generate income...

...*but* I don't have any problems with other people asking for "gimme an iPod" donations. If someone is generous enough to give them money, ok by me.

[spaz]

I'm a fan of the selling t-shirts idea..I'd rather support someone with shirt than just free money...the t-shirts are also advertisements of a sort...

[yaz]

well, our bandwidth is drowning, but id rather make t-shirts, they're more fun, btw they should be ready soon!!!

[WyethDigital]

well, our bandwidth is drowning, but id rather make t-shirts, they're more fun, btw they should be ready soon!!!

...And that, my friend, is asking for money!

Problem with T-shirts and merchandise is that you (as the seller) have up front costs, which sets the price of the merchandise. So let's say someone buys a shirt... that's about $15 - $20 for that sale, of which you'll be lucky to get $7.00. That's also $15-$20 out of a listener's pocket, whether they wanted to give that much or not.

A tip jar lets the listener decide the amount of doantion (is it $1.00 or is it $50?), and you, as the Podcaster, get to keep it all -- until you have to pay for that bandwidth, at any rate!


Just something to think about!

Eric

[spaz]

Ah, but there is one major difference. With a tip jar, you are begging, but with the sale of a t-shirt you are not.

[yaz]

thanks for gettin my back spaz,

hey eric, think about this, all those stores people buy printed t-shirts at are asking for money? this is a new concept, i didn't know that when i buy a shirt, i buy it because the seller asked me for money, i usually buy the shirt because i like it and i want it,

if you don't want one of our shirts, im not asking you to give me your money, both ends get something out of it instead of people just clicking on a paypal button to send us money,

so, yea it might be $15-20 out of a listeners pocket, but they're gonna get a dope shirt (that we designed) in return,

so no, i am not asking anyone for money, i am saying that we are going to make t-shirts and if you like our show and want to represent or help out, look for them soon...

****, i thought this post woulda died already...

[thefly]

****, i thought this post woulda died already...

Well, 25% of the posts in this thread are yours. :wink:

[yaz]

that's it? i thought more...

[spaz]

:lol: I'm pretty sure you're posting gibberish somewhere, how'd you get so many posts?

[yaz]

i ain't go no time for jibba jabba...

most of my posts are podcast related...

[WyethDigital]

well, our bandwidth is drowning, but id rather make t-shirts, they're more fun, btw they should be ready soon!!!

Actually, Yaz, I was referring to your "plug" which says "...btw they should be ready soon!!!" That is no less a hard or soft sell than most people saying, "if you like what you hear, I have a tip jar."

hey eric, think about this, all those stores people buy printed t-shirts at are asking for money? this is a new concept, i didn't know that when i buy a shirt, i buy it because the seller asked me for money, i usually buy the shirt because i like it and i want it,

In-store displays, signage advertising brands or sales, these are all an attempt to get you to give your money to the store, as are commercials on television for products that you may or may not need. I occasionally do work for guys that train people how to manipulate a customer's interest in things, so you're fooling yourself if you think otherwise. The effort is fairly invisible, but it's there, and it works!

if you don't want one of our shirts, im not asking you to give me your money, both ends get something out of it instead of people just clicking on a paypal button to send us money,

so, yea it might be $15-20 out of a listeners pocket, but they're gonna get a dope shirt (that we designed) in return,

Here's the reason I posted in the first place. I don't have a Podcast. I'm just a listener. I don't see any difference between someone asking me for a donation in their podcast, than someone trying to sell me their T-Shirt, or pointing me to Amazon to buy a coffeemaker. All these strategies are proven and legitimate. They all support the Podcast. There is nothing low class abouth any of these! In regards to not getting anything in return from a Tip Jar, you're wrong. I get an entertaining Podcast that will likely return because I was able to help defray it's costs. My cost analysis of your t-shirt operation was not to critisize it, but to show you that it might not be as efficient as a Tip Jar. I support most any method a Podcaster can earn enough to keep their show going.

Sorry you misunderstood.

Eric

[BSquared]

Yaz you're dangerously close to trying to claim that moral high ground again

You wrote ...so, yea it might be $15-20 out of a listeners pocket, but they're gonna get a dope shirt (that we designed) in return,


So what is the difference between getting a t-shirt in return for my $15 bucks and getting an hour's entertainment for my $15 (if i choose to donate to a tip jar)?

I'm with Eric - no approach for money has any more or less class than any other

And it's nice to see some other LISTENERS chiming in

[WyethDigital]

And it's nice to see some other LISTENERS chiming in

BSquared, I was a little concerned that this board was more for those putting together the Podcasts than for those who listen to the Podcasts, but I looked around and didn't see any general forum for listeners, and I figured if I want the producers to know where I'm coming from, go to them.

Good to know that I'm not the only listener here! Even better to know that someone's on the same page as me!

Eric

[WyethDigital]

Yaz you're dangerously close to trying to claim that moral high ground again

Yeah, I do agree with that. With some folks it is an either/or kind of thing. But in defense of Yaz, I'm thinking at this point he's being a little more defensive than holier-than-thou. He doesn't need to be though. I have no problem with someone who would rather sell shirts than put up a tip jar... Just didn't like the phrasing of the post or the poll!


Eric

[BSquared]

I know how you feel Eric - most of the forum topics seem to be podcasters stroking and/or dissing each other. I guess it's all new and they need an outlet to talk with each other but sometimes I get a bit bored with the podcaster to podcaster chat. A few of them seem quite disdainful of non-podcasting listeners which makes me laugh - they don't seem to get it that podcasting will stagnate if the only people who listen to podcasts are other podcasters - these people need us Eric :D

[WyethDigital]

I know how you feel Eric - most of the forum topics seem to be podcasters stroking and/or dissing each other. I guess it's all new and they need an outlet to talk with each other but sometimes I get a bit bored with the podcaster to podcaster chat. A few of them seem quite disdainful of non-podcasting listeners which makes me laugh - they don't seem to get it that podcasting will stagnate if the only people who listen to podcasts are other podcasters - these people need us Eric :D


:!: Power to the listener! 8)

[yaz]

i still think that getting a t-shirt in return thats kinda cool and you might not see all over the place is still better than just giving money, i am not holy in any way...i know there are all these stupid strategies for selling people crap, i was in retail for a very long time and i never could believe how people could let themselves be suckered into buying crap...

[theFerf]

oh yeah, that reminds me:
Get your podcasting tshirts now! http://shop.shirtsbymail.com/podcast.html

[BSquared]

LMAO @ theFerf

and yaz that's kinda my point - you think it's better to get (or give) a t-shirt for the $$ - bully for you , others think it's better to give (or get) donations - bully for them - neither option has more class than any other

[spaz]

I'm a listener too, but I still have to agree with yaz, selling a t-shirt doesn't seem as bad as a tip jar...

[yaz]

nice to see we got representation on the west coast...

[Craig]

Talk about complete lack of class...Illinoise has done the first podcast fund drive. An entire show dedicated to raising money for their podcast. http://www.illinoise.net

Craig

[yaz]

hey craig, as long as you don't try to "turn me on to god" i will keep agreeing with you...ha!

[Dweezil2000]

Talk about complete lack of class...Illinoise has done the first podcast fund drive. An entire show dedicated to raising money for their podcast. http://www.illinoise.net

Craig

I totally suggested that in this very thread! Except I was being sarcastic and thought it was a stupid idea :) So..umm.. rock on Illinoise.

-Tim

[yaz]

sarcasm can be a dangerous thing, see what it led to???

[Dweezil2000]

Totally. But is pleading for Paypal cash for the 1st Annual Dweez&Yaz Internet Donate-athon To Fight Clinical Sarcasm acceptable? Or wouldn't that be classy?

Maybe it's sooooo not-classy that is should be spelled "klassy", cuz nothing's less classy than conscience mizpellings.

I need a drink.

[yaz]

is it gonna be black-tie begging?

[Dweezil2000]

Yeah, except you'll be wearing a halter top and denim cut-off shorts and I'll be wearing a tiara and knee pads.

[yaz]

hairy guys don't look good in halter tops...

[spaz]

ok, that would be scary...I think yaz should have to wear some sort of cat-suit...